UmbralRaptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Fermat. We currently target 1.5.1, 1.6.1, and 1.7.2. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
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[Principia] pleroy commented on pull request #2271: Add support for specifying the geopotential using J - https://git.io/fj7Vf
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[Principia] pleroy assigned issue #2267: Control point up / forward won't affect the navball - https://git.io/fjQH7
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<discord->
Kobymaru. — Question about geostationary orbit: so there are two stable points: 75.3°E and 252°E without longitudinal drift. Am I safe from inclination pertubations there?
<discord->
egg. — @Damien you're confused. North/South is latitude; East/West is longitude (and then it's just a question of counting 360 eastwards or switching to westwards at 180)
<discord->
egg. — @Kobymaru 360-252=108 which is not too far from the 105 that @Damien is quoting.
<discord->
Damien. — Yeah I see what you mean. Not sure where I got north from lol
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<discord->
egg. — oh lol yeah the history length in 10^k seconds
<discord->
egg. — I wrote that at the dawn of time and it's been stuck that way ever since
<discord->
egg. — we should change its semantic to be "how much to show" rather than "how much to remember" anyway, it's a remnant from dark memory-constrained days
<discord->
Kobymaru. — @Sir Mortimer I for one am loving these
<discord->
egg. — @Sir Mortimer I wonder re. the quick frame switch thing whether it should show recently used frames, as opposed to the four for this body; in a 2-body (Kerbin/Mun) situation, you'll often want to switch between e.g. KCI/MCKA/MCI
<discord->
Kobymaru. — a little suggestion: could we have some dropdown menu for selecting the reference frame celestial so you can switch without opening the Plotting Frame selction window?
<discord->
Kobymaru. — @egg i think that would be a bit onfusing
<discord->
Kobymaru. — @egg i think that would be a bit confusing (edited)
<discord->
egg. — @Kobymaru that's already in @Sir Mortimer's proposal, in the main window
<discord->
egg. — >selecting the reference frame celestial so you can switch without opening the Plotting Frame selction window@Kobymaru that's already in @Sir Mortimer's proposal, in the main window (edited)
<discord->
Kobymaru. — no i think that opens the reference frame window
<discord->
egg. — > selecting the reference frame celestial so you can switch without opening the Plotting Frame selction window@Kobymaru that's already in @Sir Mortimer's proposal, in the main window (edited)
<discord->
egg. — > selecting the reference frame celestial so you can switch without opening the Plotting Frame selction window
<discord->
egg. —
<discord->
egg. — @Kobymaru that's already in @Sir Mortimer's proposal, in the main window (edited)
<discord->
egg. — @Kobymaru first mock, item 2
<discord->
egg. — it's there
<discord->
egg. — 4 buttons
<discord->
Kobymaru. — yes, that's the type of reference frame. I mean the celestial
<discord->
egg. — ah
<discord->
egg. — but if you have both dimensions you quickly get the whole space of all plotting frames
<discord->
egg. — which is vast and thus necessarily clunky
<discord->
egg. — the problem is the dimensions (reference celestial, frame type) aren't that natural
<discord->
egg. — again, you'll often want frames straddling two bodies
<discord->
egg. — see the KCI/MCKA/MCI example above
<discord->
egg. — (arguably a problem here is that letters are ambiguous)
<discord->
egg. — (TRAPPIST-1 is awful for that, with all bodies being called T :-p)
<discord->
neph. — What if it just gives you a simple list containing the local star, whatever the last-selected celestial was (or none, if you just launched the game), and the homeworld (or moons of the homeworld, if you're already focused on the homeworld)?
<discord->
neph. — So if you're Earth-focused, you'd have quick access buttons for the Sun and the Moon
<discord->
egg. — you're starting to describe a very complex state machine
<discord->
neph. — If you are Phobos-focused and you recently were Mars-focused, you'd have quick access for the Sun, Earth, and Mars.
<discord->
egg. — and you still have the problem that these dimensions are not really natural to start with
<discord->
neph. — Does Principia even let you set up things like Earth-Mars Barycentric?
<discord->
Kobymaru. — what do you mean by dimensions?
<discord->
neph. — I thought it was only Earth-Solar and Mars-Solar
<discord->
egg. — MCKA (and especially KMB) are not that much more Muny than they are Kerbinesque
<discord->
egg. — @Kobymaru (body, type)
<discord->
neph. — Or worse, Phobos-Moon Barycentric
<discord->
egg. — @neph two-body frames only with the parent, but yes
<discord->
egg. — anyway
<discord->
egg. — enough of this, let's wait for @Sir Mortimer
<discord->
neph. — I mean, you could just have buttons for types and a dropdown list for bodies and you can access the whole set of reference frames
<discord->
neph. — I mean, you could just have buttons for types and a dropdown list for bodies and you can access the whole set of reference frames from a MUCH smaller menu (edited)
<discord->
Kobymaru. — exactly
<discord->
Kobymaru. — > Does Principia even let you set up things like Earth-Mars Barycentric?
<discord->
Kobymaru. —
<discord->
Kobymaru. — What'S the point of that?
<discord->
neph. — No clue, I wasn't cure if the set of of reference frames was Types x Body x Body or an irregular subset of that more like Types x Body x Related Bodies
<discord->
neph. — No clue, I wasn't sure if the set of of reference frames was Types x Body x Body or an irregular subset of that more like Types x Body x Related Bodies so I was asking to find out (edited)
<discord->
Kobymaru. — don't think that's very helpful though
<discord->
egg. — @neph yes, but still, rectangular slices of that space are full of spam
<discord->
egg. — you're never going to be interested in earth-sun barycentric and earth-moon barycentric at the same time
<discord->
egg. — and yet if you have (all types) × {Earth, Moon} you'll get both
<discord->
neph. — I actually don't think that's so bad...
<discord->
egg. — I think it's nice to have one-click access to the frames you might want
<discord->
egg. — one, as opposed to two
<discord->
neph. — What if you had Types x {Sun, current body, child bodies} and you could select other bodies under another menu?
<discord->
egg. — what's with this obsession with the Sun
<discord->
neph. — Good point actually
<discord->
egg. — also define current
<discord->
egg. — Principia tries very hard to not emphasize the concept of current main body
<discord->
egg. — because it gets very silly when you're doing Fun stuff
<discord->
egg. — (don't want your UI flickering near Lagrange points)
<discord->
neph. — You could develop a manual graph of "probably going to be useful to switch into from here" reference frames, but that sounds like Boring Work
<discord->
egg. — anyway
<discord->
egg. — let's wait for @Sir Mortimer
<discord->
egg. — @Sir Mortimer owns the design
<discord->
egg. — :-p
<egg>
;wa +6.87435908183561040e-01 rad in deg
<egg>
ah, no kmath
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<discord->
egg. — @neph the idea with "recent frames" would be that it is a heuristic that does the boring work for you of course
<discord->
egg. — (but you probably need a better identifier than one letter)
<discord->
egg. — (did you mean TCTF or TCTF?)
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<discord->
neph. — In my opinion, a simple rule something like planet-inertial provides one-click access to {sun-planet-sun-aligned, planet-surface, (planet-moon_1-planet-aligned, etc.)}, and planet-moon-aligned provides one-click access to {planet-inertial, moon-inertial, planet-moon-barycentric}, etc. would work well
<discord->
neph. — If you're in planet-inertial and you want to get to moon-surface, you could either open up the current menu or navigate planet-inertial --> planet-moon-planet-aligned --> moon-inertial --> moon-surface. More clicks but smaller menu space, a tradeoff if you decide you want to misuse a "quick access" utility like that
<discord->
neph. — If you're in planet-inertial and you want to get to moon-surface, you could either open up the current menu or navigate planet-inertial --> planet-moon-planet-aligned --> moon-inertial --> moon-surface. More clicks but smaller menu space, a tradeoff if you decide you want to misuse a "quick access" utility like that ;P (edited)
<discord->
neph. — If you're in planet-inertial and you want to get to moon-surface, you could either open up the current menu or navigate planet-inertial --> planet-moon-planet-aligned --> moon-inertial --> moon-surface. More clicks but smaller menu space, a tradeoff if you decide you want to misuse a "quick access" utility like that :p (edited)
<discord->
egg. — bear in mind that there can be many moons of course :D
* discord-
egg. — waves at Saturn_
<discord->
neph. — Simple, include gas giant reference frames in a $40 DLC
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[Principia] pleroy opened issue #2276: Get rid of the last_point_only parameter to Flow - https://git.io/fj7yR
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[Principia] pleroy labeled issue #2276: Get rid of the last_point_only parameter to Flow - https://git.io/fj7yR
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[Principia] pleroy labeled issue #2164: Support hiding histories instead of forgetting them - https://git.io/fjCpq
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[Principia] pleroy labeled issue #2099: We should replace the navball in IVA - https://git.io/fjvBb
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[Principia] pleroy labeled issue #1075: SIUnit should be si::Unit and a variable - https://git.io/voWca
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<discord->
Sir Mortimer. — Spaaam! 7 notifications new record
<discord->
Sir Mortimer. — Problem with a heuristic/last selected reference frame thing is that it wiuld arbitrarily change the UI location of buttons. This violates the principle of least surprise
<discord->
Sir Mortimer. — A consistent UI is easier to use than one that tries to be smart and order your stuff for you.