raptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Galois. We currently target 1.8.1, and 1.9.1. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
Raidernick has joined #principia
Raidernick has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Raidernick has joined #principia
egg|laptop|egg has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Blu3wolf has joined #principia
Moistmelon has quit [Ping timeout: 198 seconds]
Mike` has quit [Ping timeout: 198 seconds]
Mike` has joined #principia
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — ^^^^lol that was me aswell when I started
raptop has quit [Ping timeout: 198 seconds]
raptop has joined #principia
raptop has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
UmbralRaptor has joined #principia
raptop has joined #principia
UmbralRaptop has quit [Ping timeout: 204 seconds]
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #2743: A test of compact representation of trajectories using analytical series - https://git.io/JUMza
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4547/
raptop has quit [Ping timeout: 378 seconds]
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4547/
<discord-> K​itten Dispenser. — turkish orthography is beautifully simple, i say this as someone learning the language... that is, until you get to İ/i and I/ı, which make programmers want to cry
<discord-> S​tandecco. — > r​aptop. — I just wish I could understand math from non-constructive proofs/didn't need examples
<discord-> S​tandecco. — that's just a superpower
<discord-> S​tandecco. — how do you from discord to IRC through the bot?
<discord-> S​tandecco. — I wish I could understand math without a graphical interpretation
<discord-> S​tandecco. — but I need fluid flow examples to understand ∇ stuff
<discord-> S​tandecco. — and wires going up and down to understand electrical circuits
<discord-> S​tandecco. — how do you tag an IRC user through the bot? (edited)
<discord-> S​tandecco. — good thing is that you get an intuitive understanding for how things should work; but you might've used an imperfect analogy and therefore get an imperfect understanding
egg|laptop|egg has joined #principia
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2743: A test of compact representation of trajectories using analytical series - https://git.io/JUMza
egg|laptop|egg has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<discord-> s​martdummies. — Unless you are designing real life critical ites perfect is not necessary. Getting good enough understanding is an achievement in itself, and I am fine with that
Blu3wolf has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — > turkish orthography is beautifully simple, i say this as someone learning the language... that is, until you get to İ/i and I/ı, which make programmers want to cry
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — @Kitten Dispenser greetings from the kyrillic a
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — @Standecco my understanding of math is... not something that I should be mentioning in this channel without being shown the door 😛
<discord-> S​tandecco. — > Unless you are designing real life critical ites perfect is not necessary. Getting good enough understanding is an achievement in itself, and I am fine with that
<discord-> S​tandecco. — @smartdummies well, I'm studying engineering, so it might definitely happen...
<discord-> S​tandecco. — @Sir Mortimer compared to egg, 99% of people here (including me) should be shown the door
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — yeah but then he wouldn't have anyone around to throw eggs at.
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — but hey, I can solve a rubics cube.
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — so maybe that's my ticket
Moistmelon has joined #principia
<discord-> s​martdummies. — Good luck. What branch of engineering?
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — wait, there are branches?
<UmbralRaptor> standecco: well, the person on the other end may be slow to respond if they were temporarily experiencing vivid and participatory hallucinations while paralyzed
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — That sound like an odd experience
<UmbralRaptor> It happens basically every night for some reason
<discord-> e​gg. — @Standecco: you can just mention the username, that usually pings
<UmbralRaptor> more so when the user has relevant stalk words setup
raptop has joined #principia
<discord-> s​martdummies. — Electrical, mechanical, software. Yep different branches
egg|laptop|egg has joined #principia
<discord-> S​tandecco. — @smartdummies aerospace, but not very happy about it
<raptop> chemical, civil, ...
<discord-> s​martdummies. — I'm a software myself and my brother is electrical. Good luck in your studies
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2743: A test of compact representation of trajectories using analytical series - https://git.io/JUMza
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy pushed 73 commits to master [+20/-1/±229] https://git.io/JUDAM
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy 07dde21 - And then he discovered that Kudryavtsev doesn't support vectors...
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy 056987c - Merge branch 'VectorKudryavtsev' into SolarSystemAnalysis
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy 8b806b8 - Back to reasonable code, but doesn't compile in C++20.
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] ... and 70 more commits.
egg|laptop|egg has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy commented on issue #572: Exported template parameters of classes and structs should be postfixed with an underscore - https://git.io/JUyey
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy edited a comment on issue #572: Exported template parameters of classes and structs should be postfixed with an underscore - https://git.io/JUyey
egg|laptop|egg has joined #principia
<discord-> S​tandecco. — > wait, there are branches?
<discord-> S​tandecco. — @Sir Mortimer saw this only now, did you learn software development on your own?
<discord-> S​tandecco. — @smartdummies thanks!
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2744: Cleanups for the polynomials - https://git.io/JUyTO
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy edited pull request #2744: Cleanups for the polynomials - https://git.io/JUyTO
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4548/
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4548/
egg|laptop|egg has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — @Standecco yes, and i have a degree in it too
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — (you can't learn programming from a book imo, you need to just do it)
<discord-> S​tandecco. — was the engineering branches thing ironic then?
<discord-> S​tandecco. — oh, perhaps you did plain computer science
<discord-> S​tandecco. — oh, perhaps you did "plain" computer science (edited)
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — yes. and kinda no, because when I went to uni there was just one branch, at least in IT. now they have like 4 or 5
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — it is "plain", as plain (and boring) as it gets. can't really say that i actually benefited from it, at least not professionally.
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — maths almost broke me, especially statistics.
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — my best intellectual achievement in maths is something that egg probably does with half a brain, half asleep, just after waking up 😉
<discord-> S​tandecco. — so far I've fared well enough in math, but I guess studying it in college is different than actually having to use it on your own
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — i was smart enough to choose a humanistic education before uni. so i opted for french + latin, instead of maths. didn't exactly help me to get through algebra and analysis 😛
<discord-> S​tandecco. — oh, I went greek + latin instead of maths
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — cool
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — i would have taken greek too, but there were only 4 pupils interested so it didn't happen
<discord-> S​tandecco. — I struggled a lot through the first calculus lessons, but having parents and roommates well versed in it helped very much
<discord-> S​tandecco. — > i would have taken greek too, but there were only 4 pupils interested so it didn't happen
<discord-> S​tandecco. — @Sir Mortimer was it a private school?
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — yeah. roommates helped me, too. my parents... i knew more about math than then by the age of 16 😛
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — nope. local gymnasium, with an engaged teacher in latin who had an interest in dead languages
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Curious about differences in education systems; what does gymnasium mean to you?
<discord-> S​tandecco. — your school system must be quite different than ours, then; I took greek + latin not because I chose it (well, I choose the school, so I sort of did) but because my school "kind" (how do you translate that?) had them
<discord-> S​tandecco. — for me, gymnasium were the first 2 years of high school; it's a legacy system of dividing "classical high schools" (2y of gymnasium + 3y of lyceum) that's been phased out by most schools, but not the one I went to
<discord-> S​tandecco. — the weird quotation marks and words are because there isn't really a translation for these things, to my knowledge
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Cool, just wasn't aware the term was used outside of Sweden where I live, thought it was just called high scool
<raptop> Stonesmile: a gymnasium is where you do indoor athletics, unless you're secretly german
<discord-> S​tandecco. — fun fact: gymnasium is where gym comes from (and it's greek)
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — ok, quick runthrough, from back then (now its a bit different but not too much): there's grammar school (we call it Volksschule, which roughly translates to peoples school), age 6-10 (4 years). Then there is the first choice: you can take the Hauptschule ("main school", 4 years from 10-14) *or* the gymnasium (8 years, 10-18 - you can switch from the Hauptschule to the Gymnasium any time if y
<discord-> S​tandecco. — we call the first 2 years of lyceum "gymnasium" because it's tradition (you know, _mens sana in corpore sano_) and because you learn greek/latin grammar there, then you start going through classical literature with your perfect language knowledge (definitely not what actually happens)
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — But it's endlessly complicated. There are other schools you can choose after 4 years of gymnasium, for instance the HTL (Höhere Technische Lehranstalt) where you basically start early on an engineering degree. Many fields to choose from, including electronics, construction, aviation, carpentry. Basically anthing - if you're ready to move across half the country to go to school.
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Isn't age 10 a little early to choose what the rest of your education is going to be about?
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — it is, but it also isn't final.
egg|laptop|egg has joined #principia
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — After 12 years of school you take the big final exam, I think they're called GCE A-Levels in the UK, and I don't know the equivalent in the US. The germans call it Abitur, we call it Matura which - imo - is the better word 😄
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — You need that to immatriculate in any university.
<raptop> The US version would be, uh, probably the SAT and ACT
<raptop> *probably be
<raptop> words hard
<raptop> Anyway, the observant reader will notice that those tests are not final exams/are seperate from grades, and rather administered by a for-profit company
<discord-> e​gg. — I went through the French system then did the Swiss Matura 🙃
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — @raptop are those tests in any shape or form relevant for the future career?
<raptop> (And of course, there are SAT II, AP, IB tests which may prove relevant for admissions)
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — ah.
<raptop> Sir Mortimer: not really, though the 3 I listed afterwards kind of are
<raptop> (It depends)
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — @egg do you have any explaination why the swiss, and only the swiss flag does not have the same rectangular shape as *every other frickin country in the world*?
<discord-> e​gg. — 🇳🇵
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — I stand corrected.
<raptop> Nepal's rectangle is in the shape of the country instead of the flag
<discord-> S​tandecco. — we have a similar subdivision (many schools you can choose from):
<discord-> S​tandecco. — there's lyceum, which are the most "prestigious" schools, from where it's assumed you'll then go on to university; there's many kinds of lyceums, but the main ones are (some people would kill me for saying this, but it's in a scale from hardest to easiest):
<discord-> S​tandecco. — -classical (where I went to), where you learn greek and latin;
<discord-> S​tandecco. — -scientific, the math one;
<discord-> S​tandecco. — -linguistic, which is like classical but with spanish, french and english;
<discord-> S​tandecco. — -artistic, the one where you have green hair (common joke, you learn arts in general);
<discord-> S​tandecco. — -various others which are more vague;
<discord-> S​tandecco. —
<discord-> S​tandecco. — then you get the "professionale" schools (which literally means professional), which are schools you can choose to learn a profession straight away. Common assumption is that you won't go to university, after this. They are more than the lyceums, but some examples are:
<discord-> S​tandecco. — hotel school, where you learn restoration and related jobs;
<discord-> S​tandecco. — production, where you learn craftmanship (I guess?);
<discord-> S​tandecco. — commercial, some sort of trade school - diluted university economics;
<discord-> S​tandecco. —
<discord-> S​tandecco. — then you have a sort of hybrid, technical schools; these are schools which you can go to and then start working straight away with an actual title, but people often (although not always) follow them up with university. It's a relatively common school. There are even more of these, there's basically one for every main engineering course in university.
<discord-> S​tandecco. —
<discord-> S​tandecco. — Most of my colleagues come from either scientific lyceums or technical schools (many from aeronautical school)
<discord-> S​tandecco. — at the end of any school we also have an "esame di maturità" which translates to "maturity exam"; it is different for every school, but it's always needed to actually complete school; it's a qualification like a degree, but its purpose varies wildly based on the school you got it from (similar to what @Sir Mortimer described for their school system)
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — sounds quite similar
<discord-> S​tandecco. — we have a similar subdivision (many schools you can choose from):
<discord-> S​tandecco. — there are lyceums, which are the most "prestigious" schools, from where it's assumed you'll then go on to university; there's many kinds of lyceums, but the main ones are (some people would kill me for saying this, but it's in a scale from hardest to easiest):
<discord-> S​tandecco. — -classical (where I went to), where you learn greek and latin;
<discord-> S​tandecco. — -scientific, the math one;
<discord-> S​tandecco. — -linguistic, which is like classical but with spanish, french and english;
<discord-> S​tandecco. — -artistic, the one where you have green hair (common joke, you learn arts in general);
<discord-> S​tandecco. — -various others which are more vague;
<discord-> S​tandecco. —
<discord-> S​tandecco. — then you get the "professionale" schools (which literally means professional), which are schools you can choose to learn a profession straight away. Common assumption is that you won't go to university, after this. They are more than the lyceums, but some examples are:
<discord-> S​tandecco. — hotel school, where you learn restoration and related jobs;
<discord-> S​tandecco. — production, where you learn craftmanship (I guess?);
<discord-> S​tandecco. — commercial, some sort of trade school - diluted university economics;
<discord-> S​tandecco. —
<discord-> S​tandecco. — then you have a sort of hybrid, technical schools; these are schools which you can go to and then start working straight away with an actual title, but people often (although not always) follow them up with university. It's a relatively common school. There are even more of these, there's basically one for every main engineering course in university.
<discord-> S​tandecco. —
<discord-> S​tandecco. — Most of my colleagues come from either scientific lyceums or technical schools (many from aeronautical school) (edited)
<discord-> S​tandecco. — we have a similar subdivision (many schools you can choose from):
<discord-> S​tandecco. — there are lyceums, which are the most "prestigious" schools, from where it's assumed you'll then go on to university; there's many kinds of lyceums, but the main ones are (some people would kill me for saying this, but it's in a scale from hardest to easiest):
<discord-> S​tandecco. — -classical (where I went to), where you learn greek and latin;
<discord-> S​tandecco. — -scientific, the math one;
<discord-> S​tandecco. — -linguistic, which is like classical but with spanish, french and english;
<discord-> S​tandecco. — -artistic, the one where you have green hair (common joke, you learn arts in general);
<discord-> S​tandecco. — -various others which are more vague;
<discord-> S​tandecco. —
<discord-> S​tandecco. — then you get the "professionale" schools (which literally means professional), which are schools you can choose to learn a profession straight away. Common assumption is that you won't go to university, after this. They are more than the lyceums, but some examples are:
<discord-> S​tandecco. — hotel school, where you learn restoration and related jobs;
<discord-> S​tandecco. — production, where you learn craftmanship (I guess?);
<discord-> S​tandecco. — commercial, some sort of trade school - diluted university economics;
<discord-> S​tandecco. —
<discord-> S​tandecco. — then you have a sort of hybrid, "scuole tecniche" (=technical schools); these are schools which you can go to and then start working straight away with an actual title, but people often (although not always) follow them up with university. It's a relatively common school. There are even more of these, there's basically one for every main engineering course in university.
<discord-> S​tandecco. —
<discord-> S​tandecco. — Most of my colleagues come from either scientific lyceums or technical schools (many from aeronautical school) (edited)
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #2744: Cleanups for the polynomials - https://git.io/JUyTO
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4549/
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Wow french literature is so sad
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I just read an entire simplified french book and there was like no connection between every chapter whatsover
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — is that only for "Lettres de mon Moulin" ?
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2744: Cleanups for the polynomials - https://git.io/JUyTO
<discord-> e​gg. — @Zeusbeer cursory googling will point you, in the first line of the Wikipedia article, to the words "a collection of short stories". Those are not chapters. This has nothing to do with the language.
<discord-> e​gg. — On a side note, it is also straying pretty far from the subject matter of this channel to the extent to which there is one
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — 🧠
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — How is work coming along with #2400?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — > On a side note, it is also straying pretty far from the subject matter of this channel to the extent to which there is one
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Maybe we'll need an "egg room" subchannel 🙂
<discord-> e​gg. — @Stonesmile Having made things a thousand times faster than they were in our *Mathematica* experiments in June, we are now more confident that the current approach will work, and are ready to resume our experimentation
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — > On a side note, it is also straying pretty far from the subject matter of this channel to the extent to which there is one
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Maybe we'll need an "~~egg room~~" subchannel 🙂 (edited)
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — That is very good news!
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — It's quite satisfying refactoring code and seeing performance jump in the orders of 10^3 i bet
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — i have a hunch that this involved more than a bit of refactoring
<discord-> e​gg. — yes, we are more in "build a gothic cathedral" than "refactoring" territory
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4549/
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — I saw one of the latest commits was literally 'improved += and -=', some low level stuff?
<discord-> e​gg. — > ad majorem #2400 gloriam.
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — amen
<discord-> e​gg. — @Stonesmile += on objects that represent piecewise poisson series
<discord-> e​gg. — we are more talking about flying buttresses than foundations here
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — I'm looking at an oddly shaped capsule in low mun orbit that I cannot repressurize for some reason, and I'm wondering wether I'm stupid, or that it is a bug, and I am seriously contemplating retreat to the couch with a few cl of Talisker instead of thinking about strange things.
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Yeah, I saw it was for a specific case, but still 😅
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — Jeb's got 2 days of oxygen left. Plenty for a rescue mission.
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — 🥃 it is
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — (minus the ice)
<discord-> e​gg. — of course
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — gotta keep those covid germs at bay.
raptop has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2744: Cleanups for the polynomials - https://git.io/JUyTO
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy pushed 5 commits to master [+1/-0/±44] https://git.io/JUycJ
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy b8cf25a - Rename Polynomial::Evaluate into Polynomial::operator().
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy c33e027 - Merge branch 'master' into Polycleanup
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy a5fd892 - Append _ to the parameters.
<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] ... and 2 more commits.
raptop has joined #principia
<discord-> e​gg. — @Stonesmile for a sense of perspective, here is the stack of things that get added when adding piecewise Poisson series:
<discord-> e​gg. — — Poisson series (the pieces),
<discord-> e​gg. — — polynomials (the coefficients of the sines and cosines in the Poisson series, as well as the secular term),
<discord-> e​gg. — — the coefficients of the polynomials, which here are displacements, which expose a vector space API but strongly type the reference system to avoid confusion between reference systems,
<discord-> e​gg. — — the underlying triples of lengths,
<discord-> e​gg. — — the lengths (strongly-typed physical quantities, so the compiler does dimensional analysis for us),
<discord-> e​gg. — — the underlying double-precision floating-point numbers: here we are finally in the predefined operations.
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — Insurrection! That was MY chair!
<raptop> cat
egg|laptop|egg has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — *Why is the first result for peicewise poisson series on google the principia repo?*
<discord-> S​umguy. — Hon hon hon hon
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Weird, I always thought poisson had to do with probability with the poisson/exponential distribution
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — What would the "poisson series" then mean?
<UmbralRaptor> 🦈️➕🐡➖🐠️➕🐟➖…
egg|laptop|egg has joined #principia
<discord-> s​cimas. — @Stonesmile google is probably just specializing your results from browser / ip /account history. Incognito / private mode shows researchgate, wikipedia etc as top entries.
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Yeah, they appear right after, it's just funny when the thing you found the term in is the first on google (it happens quite a lot in Uni)
<discord-> e​gg. — "piecewise poisson series" is not a term that appears to exist in the literature
<discord-> e​gg. — "poisson series" will tell you what this is about
<discord-> e​gg. — omitting the quotes will give you a lot of things involving Poisson and series that are not about Poisson series as defined in astronomy
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — There we go! going to read that when I get bored of my quantum mechanics class
<raptop> Boredom is in the forbidden region
<discord-> s​martdummies. — > yes, we are more in "build a gothic cathedral" than "refactoring" territory
<discord-> s​martdummies. — @egg only if you don't consider rewriting everything "refactoring"
<discord-> e​gg. — but nothing was really written
<discord-> e​gg. — the Mathematica experiments were just that; they cannot in any way interact with Principia or KSP
<discord-> s​martdummies. — Ahhh. I have "refactored" old code where I ended up doing close to a full rewrite. I am always amazed when I look at old code that I once thought was solid and I have to ask myself, What the hell was I thinking?
<discord-> s​martdummies. — Refactoring code can lead to almost as many rabbit holes as Wikipedia
<discord-> s​cimas. — Is the stuff in the mathematica folder a complete replication (in terms of functionality) of the N-body simulation and extended body gravitation in the actual KSP mod?
<discord-> e​gg. — not in the slightest
Jesin has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<discord-> e​gg. — (and the relevant mathematica experiments are not in the mathematica folder anyway; that mostly contains logging utilities and some code to generate numerical tables)
Jesin has joined #principia