egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
<queqiao->
⟨lancis man⟩ sorry if this is stupid but when I use the principia maneveour node thing it seems to disapear half way through the burn
<queqiao->
⟨von Kerman⟩ Unfortunately you need to perform maneuvers manually with principia. Start the burn when the flight planner windows tells you to start, burn until the predicted trajectory on the map is close to plan, stop the engine.
<queqiao->
⟨von Kerman⟩ * window
<queqiao->
⟨von Kerman⟩ (Flight planner windows also tells when to stop the engine, but this is approximate.)
<queqiao->
⟨von Kerman⟩ * window
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ yes
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ * yes, being approximate is the greatest disadvantage of Principia
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ +(despite approximity actually happens IRL, usually in stock gravity assist chains, I'm now used to use MJ to burn to max precision (1E-5) to avoid too much post-corrections)
<queqiao->
⟨Stocky⟩ Alright so things are going well with principia now for me
<queqiao->
In fact i feel like it is actually easier? Whether thats because im not half assing the burns or what but im finding it much easier to do correction burns etc than without
<queqiao->
In saying this though - what is the best way to decouple my science probe without it drastically changing inclination? This is only a science probe to save on power but if i decouple it close to earth, the probe ends up crashing into the moon
<queqiao->
If i wait until i get to the moon its going to be out of battery power as the close to earth avionics draw to much power for the solar to keep up
<queqiao->
⟨Quadrupole⟩ Turn down decoupler power
<queqiao->
⟨Stocky⟩ i have the impulse on 0kn
<queqiao->
Is this the same thing?
<queqiao->
⟨Quadrupole⟩ No. The slider below it. Set taht to 1
<queqiao->
⟨Quadrupole⟩ * that
<queqiao->
⟨Quadrupole⟩ The impulse tends to resets itself
<queqiao->
⟨Denwey⟩ ⟪Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟫ yes, being approximate is the greatest […] ⮪ You use MJ's exec principia node? How do you prevent it from stopping the burn waay before it should be?
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<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ I never used thst :p
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ * that :p -- so sorry for that
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ I just execute manually (hint: go to orbit view with high prediction steps could lag your pc, but in turn you get better precision)
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ About set orbit:
<queqiao->
Seems that the "set orbit" inclination params, for actual inclination params, is added with the body's tilt (relative to your selected parent body's equator)
<queqiao->
That comes up today when I'm doing a test that need to launch my rocket into a circular solar orbit within Earth's orbit plane
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ About set orbit:
<queqiao->
Seems that the "set orbit" inclination params, for actual inclination params, is added with the body's tilt (relative to your selected parent body's equator)
<queqiao->
That comes up today when I'm doing a test that need to launch my rocket into a circular solar orbit within Earth's orbit plane
<queqiao->
After a sequence of revert to launch then re-tweak the LAN for multiple times, keep inclination as 23.44 deg resulted in failure,
<queqiao->
I decided to try out, read 2body params from KER, and use my tug (as in this screenshot, 1 Mk1-pod+1 ks25+1 FL-T100 with infinite fuel cheat) to burn to 0 out of plane in GSE frame, to find out
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ About set orbit:
<queqiao->
Seems that the "set orbit" inclination params, for actual inclination params, is added with the body's tilt (relative to your selected parent body's equator)
<queqiao->
That comes up today when I'm doing a test that need to launch my rocket into a circular solar orbit within Earth's orbit plane
<queqiao->
After a sequence of revert to launch then re-tweak the LAN for multiple times, keep inclination as 23.44 deg resulted in failure,
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ Mechjeb works quite well in deciding a window (I'm doing a Earth transfer hohmann with 2N ion thruster, to get the accuracy proved)
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ Mechjeb works quite well in deciding a window
<queqiao->
burn last for 27d2h, window at 157d4h, burn medium is at 170d18h, a bit earlier
<queqiao->
MJ window is at 173d 16h costing 2660dv; Principia cost 100 less
<queqiao->
(I'm doing a Earth transfer hohmann with 2N ion thruster, to get the accuracy proved)
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ Mechjeb works quite well in deciding a window
<queqiao->
(need to have patched conics on and select target celestial on; must not have a flight plan or the node will have been erased by principia instantly)
<queqiao->
-------------
<queqiao->
MJ window is at 173d 16h costing 2660dv; Principia cost 100 less
<queqiao->
⟨ZombieZilla⟩ What is going on with your craft there
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ burn a node for 27 days
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ +(however there are something problematic with ion engine Isp, idk whether it's caused by physic frame issue)
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<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ a bug: when my vessel dash into the atmosphere (without FAR)
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ it begin to sping at tremendous speed
<queqiao->
⟨von Kerman⟩ Atmosphere without FAR is a bug
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Could be a remnant of 2519, like scimas’s capsule. We don’t really want to spend more time on that one for now.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ ⟪von Kerman⟫ Atmosphere without FAR is a bug ⮪ FAR aero is not a dependency for principia.
<queqiao->
And there are still some good thing of stock aero.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ FAR is indeed not a dependency, but no, there isn’t much good that can be said of stock aerodynamics. In any case, the merits of aerodynamic models aren’t really on topic here.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ ⟪egg⟫ Could be a remnant of 2519, like […] ⮪ got it, roughly the same manner
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ +as I've just seen in my game
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Perhaps the scimas spin may be addressed someday by 2966, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] pleroy opened pull request #3269: Next release is हरीश चंद्र - https://git.io/JSU9R
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ⟪lancis man⟫ how do I launch into the plane of the […] ⮪ you can’t do that from Cape Canaveral, it is too far North. Move to Kourou, go to the Moon without launching into its orbital plane.
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ principia slows the game down in 2 ways
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] pleroy commented on pull request #3270: SO(3) is not commutative - https://git.io/JSTN8
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ first, trajectory calculations of all celestials and crafts, this is influenced by how many crafts you have and i think your cpus multicore power, as ive seen near 100% usage
<queqiao->
Anything with 4+ cores should only feel problems with a huge amount of stuff in orbit
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ second, much worse is loading times
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ⟪pEdro⟫ first, trajectory calculations of all […] ⮪ that one is, importantly, only an issue at high timewarp, i.e. it limits the rate at which you can comfortably warp, but it is isn’t a performance hit out of warp.
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ * and much worse is loading times, it depends on number of orbits of all crafts in orbit
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ⟪pEdro⟫ second, and much worse is loading […] ⮪ loading times are related to savegame size growth with old low-orbit vessels (#2400), and we expect the solution to this to come in the February release.
<queqiao->
⟨theeo⟩ i think i’ve got a 6 core processor
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ yeah, but i feel it should still be mentioned, its more important if you have less cores
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ good to hear you are close to fixing it
<queqiao->
⟨theeo⟩ alright, i’ll probably try it out after i’m done with this save
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ * it, loading times is the only real downside for me
<queqiao->
⟨theeo⟩ i don’t really care about lag anywhere other than the flight scene tbh
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ in flight performance impact is basically none
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ⟪pEdro⟫ good to hear you are close to fixing […] ⮪ in fact, we have a test build with the #2400 fix somewhere in the backlog (we’ll be remaking one tonight), if you want to try that out we would be interested in seeing how it works for you
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ +for crafts it was a single calc every 10s i think
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ * tonight with unrelated bugfixes),
<queqiao->
⟨theeo⟩ ⟪pEdro⟫ in flight performance impact is […] ⮪ i guess that’s a full on go ahead for me to use it in my next playthrough then
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] eggrobin closed issue #3235: The camera rotates in the plotting frame when KSP uses a rotating reference frame - https://git.io/JDS3H
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] eggrobin closed pull request #3270: SO(3) is not commutative - https://git.io/JSUbH
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] eggrobin pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±15] https://git.io/JSkIu
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] eggrobin e2a2167 - SO(3) is not commutative
<queqiao->
⟨Stocky⟩ Could someone please explain circularizing an orbit around the moon with principia? I thought I was one step away from being a rocket scientist with how good I was getting the hang of principia until I tried to close off an orbit around the moon. It appears you cant just do a retrograde burn at the PE to circularize? I had to burn radial as well in order to get a normal looking orbit
<queqiao->
Is this normal?
<queqiao->
⟨von Kerman⟩ No, you just do a retrograde burn. Maybe the reference frame was not correct - which one you were using?
<queqiao->
⟨(ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴍᴇɴᴛᴀʟshells)⟩ if you are not using moon-centred inertial, try that
<queqiao->
⟨(ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴍᴇɴᴛᴀʟshells)⟩ ~how do you launch into the plane of the moon in Principia?~
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ That is quite the shirt.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ It's from cotondoux.com, they have some really nice patterns
<raptop>
Are we sure that replies are getting across the bridge correctly?
<raptop>
Or for that matter images?
<egg|cell|egg>
Oh, it does look like something went very wrong...
<queqiao->
⟨egg|matrix|egg⟩ Looks like images aren't getting across to matrix.
<queqiao->
⟨egg|matrix|egg⟩ +messages with
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<queqiao->
⟨Stocky⟩ I had to either spend 600m/s roughly on radial burning on top of my retrograde or i had to do a prograde burn at the AP of that weird elliptical orbit in order to circularize
<queqiao->
⟨Kobymaru⟩ No active engines. Falling back to RCS
<queqiao->
⟨Kobymaru⟩ Principia takes the TWR into account when calculating burn duration and trajectory. If you don't have engines active, it doesn't know your TWR so it uses the TWR when using RCS instead of main engines
<queqiao->
⟨Kobymaru⟩ activate your engines and click on the "Active engines" button
<queqiao->
⟨Kobymaru⟩ +to recalculate
<queqiao->
⟨Kobymaru⟩ Principia takes the TWR into account when calculating burn duration and trajectory. If you don't have engines active, it doesn't know your TWR so it uses the TWR when using RCS instead of main engines, and your burn would take 7628 seconds.
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] pleroy edited pull request #3268: Reconstruct the flight plan lazily - https://git.io/Jy5bF
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<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ I’ll ask what VITAS is using as discord-matrix bridge on DMP, that one relays cat pictures fine…
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<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Damien lpg Butcher Zeusbeer Stonesmile Standecco Al2Me6 pEdro
<queqiao->
*Windows-only* test build with the fix to #2400.
<queqiao->
This is save-compatible with Hamilton, but it will not make your old saves smaller.
<queqiao->
However, newly computed trajectories should be a great deal more compact: old things are not stored in between engine firings, and are recomputed instead.