egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ in particular fixes a stupid bug that a stupid egg introduced in an attempted bugfix by testing with stock only rather than with RSS (https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/pull/3270), and some Russian grammar issues spotted by von Kerman.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Also, this build won’t remind you to upgrade to Hardy.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ (which you shouldn’t, because it would most likely instantly crash)
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ ⟪Kobymaru⟫ No active engines. Falling back to RCS ⮪ Awesome, great pickup on that. Thanks a heap
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ hm, the logs say
<queqiao-> > 413 Request Entity Too Largewith timestamps consistent with Butcher’s cat, mine, and the screenshots.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Test cat please ignore
<egg|chrome|egg_> raptop: should work now.
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ hey I am installing principia for testing purposes on an rp1 express install, last i remember the express had built in persistent rotation and Id have to remove that for principia to properly work, any help on where to get rid of it?
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Al2Me6 might know
<egg|chrome|egg_> raptop: for the record, the cat pictures you missed were:
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ ⟪SpaceMarine⟫ hey I am installing principia for […] ⮪ Nothing; it disables itself in the presence of Principia.
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ oka ycoolio
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ does it ? or does it try to fight us and lose ?
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ also can i get a link to the exact release, because apparently the github has 0 releases
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪SpaceMarine⟫ also can i get a link to the exact […] ⮪ I recommend reading the readme
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ ⟪egg⟫ does it ? or does it try to fight us […] ⮪ It in fact disables itself in the presence of any other persistent rotation provider, though if said provider is not Principia we pop up a warning nudging the user to use ours instead.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ just how many persistent rotation providers are there?
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ 3463.2
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ ⟪egg⟫ just how many persistent rotation […] ⮪ Three plus Principia that we check for
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ The original PR, PR maintained by the 🐧, and MandatoryRCS by Got — ours is MandatoryRCS rebranded.
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ as expected i am dumb and will need to read a lot before understanding even a little of this, i have the concepts page up and am reading through that
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ do you guys have any other things i need to read when getting started with it
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ ?
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ ⟪SpaceMarine⟫ as expected i am dumb and will need to […] ⮪ You know to read. I say that’s good enough 😂
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ besides the readme, the concepts page is a good start, please ask if things are unclear there; we are looking to improve the docs
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ yes but i want all the info and directions to what is most important to read first
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ i hope there are answers to how to plan interplanetary trajectories (to the moon and far) cause that is the main thing that hurts my head when thinking about principia
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ it’s all about those reference frames
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ Obligatory reminder to not start at the Cape
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ why not?
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ Too hard to get to the Moon (scroll up; you’ll find plenty of discussion from the past few days)
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ where should i start?
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ kouru?
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ so far i have just started reading the ference frames
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ and so far i understand 5% of the words and will need to reread it multiple times
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ lol
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ ⟪egg⟫ in particular fixes a stupid bug that a […] ⮪ Huh, did the last test3262 have the 3249 bug? If so, might explain some of the oddness I saw...
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ * the camera
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ * that would
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪Al2Me6⟫ Huh, did the last test3262 have the […] ⮪ yeah
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪Al2Me6⟫ Huh, did the last test3262 have the […] ⮪ also, you should have reported the oddness, had I not started to try to measure performance on Jupiter transfers we would have released in that unplayable state…
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ well, unplayable, I guess it was like that pre-Fréchet, but still, it’s very unpleasant.
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ Yeah, sorry. I noticed some oddness while jumping between SOIs but didn't think too much of it.
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ am not sure if am misreading but looking at concepts section specifically flight planning interface i cant find a way to increase the time from which my maneuvers burn will occur?
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ Fourth slider, t initial?
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ it says you need to increase flight plan time if you want burns in the further future however its mroe than enough and theres nothing obvious that says burn in 3 minutes
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ ah i see, okay
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ my bad, okay i think i got the handle on this flight planning interface, its actually pretty intuitive
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ also a question, in regards to orbital decay is it modelled and how?
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ no atmospheric decay. Planets aren’t point masses though, and the moon reserves some surprises…
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ so there is non atmospheric decay ie gravitational?
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ how much of a pain is say stationkeeping
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ a satellite
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ that’s not really _decay_, it essentially doesn’t change the energy of your orbit. It just alters its shape and orientation—now it may alter it outside of mission parameters, or perhaps into the ground, specifics will highly depend on your orbit, and just as importantly, on your needs.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ GEO is a pain except over India or Mexico, lunar orbits must be chosen with care, just about anything else is just fine. But you never really _need_ to be in GEO ; there are alternatives for any mission, choosing a good orbit is part of the fun.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ (Or at least there _should_ be alternatives for any mission; RP-1 isn’t really structured that way, and σκοπος is still waiting to become a thing… Still, there’s no reason to put something like comms relays in GEO as is so popular in stock KSP for no discernible reason. Choose your orbits wisely and all will be well.)
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ alright, so i wont have to worry about my space station in orbit or commsat constellations really, as long as am not doing any obviously poor orbits
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ right now am just playing with an orion in leo and testing flight planning out
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Yeah, playing with the flight plan and the various reference frames is a good idea. Read the hovertexts of the plotting frame selector, they will guide you in using the right frame the job.
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ i have multiple apogees that are at different times, that are slightly lower or higher that are predicted, i presume this is expected over a period of time for slight deviation
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ yeah, the Earth isn’t a homogeneous ball, so even low orbits will do slightly funny things. I recommend looking at the orbit analyser if you want to look deeper into the things that happen in low orbit (or even high orbit, as long as it is still recognizably Keplerian).
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ yea its nothing big like 100meters up or down
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ kinda thing
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ The orbit analyser is a bit of a wall of technical terminology; https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/wiki/Orbit-analysis might help, but it is a bit dry itself.
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ i looked through the concepts and it didnt have anything about the predictions buttons
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ whats with those, i turned them up and down and it got rid of them but i dont understand what it means inside the box
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ which buttons?
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ I think he’s talking about tolerance and max steps
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ yea
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ in the main principia window
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Ah. tolerance = how much error you are willing to have (bigger tolerance means we can compute a longer trajectory for the same price, but it will be less accurate), max steps = how much work you want us to do (more = slower, but a longer prediction at the same accuracy).
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ though this is computed asynchronously, so it is really bigger max steps = less fresh.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ (i.e. if you have a higher max steps, it will take us longer to recompute a new prediction, so that it might lag behind as you burn.)
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ The orbit analyser is a bit of a wall […] ⮪ re. knowing how perturbed Keplerian orbits behave and why you choose one over another for a given mission, I cannot recommend this book enough (the orbit analyser is heavily based on it). https://twitter.com/eggleroy/status/1123556005042970624
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ There is an English translation of the book, _Handbook of Satellite Orbits: From Kepler to GPS_.
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ I presume i am correct here but the inner orbit is where i was (430km circular from sim) and the outer is where i now am, i really like that you are able to see this history regarding the orbits
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ il have a look at that thanks
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪SpaceMarine⟫ I presume i am correct here but the […] ⮪ You are indeed reading the colours correctly.
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ now i know with principia that the more history length you have the laggier it gets
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ how is it say for a lunar mission, say a 3 day transit
<queqiao-> ⟨von Kerman⟩ Is that a.. 1 centimeter tolerance on the screenshot
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ that might be slightly overkill :-p
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ 1. am testing
<queqiao-> 2. i turned it all the way down because i was having a hard time seeing my ap and peri
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ well up next am gonna try throw something at the moon
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪SpaceMarine⟫ now i know with principia that the more […] ⮪ it’s a bit more complicated than that. Obviously if the screen is covered in noodles performance will be terrible, but that mostly happens with poor reference frame choices rather than long histories _per se_. There is a separate issue (2400) with _load times_ in the presence of large_stored_ histories, but the histories are stored no matter what your history setting...
<queqiao-> ... is (that just controls how much is shown).
<queqiao-> 2400 primarily affects old vessels in low orbits rather than transfers (even long interplanetary trajectories are cheap to store).
<queqiao-> 2400 should hopefully be closed in February.
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ any tips or things i should know for attempting to hit the moon?
<queqiao-> ⟨Quadrupole⟩ Go to Kourou if you are a beginner
<queqiao-> ⟨Quadrupole⟩ You can learn off-plane transfer later on
<raptop> 🥖🥖🥖
<queqiao-> ⟨von Kerman⟩ I think its important that maneuver has to be done manually, mechjeb fails to execute principia maneuvers even though such option exists. The butn will not be precise and will require rcs to correct.
<queqiao-> ⟨von Kerman⟩ * burn
<queqiao-> ⟨n9gaming⟩ ⟪egg⟫ it’s a bit more complicated than that. […] ⮪ That's good to hear about 2400!
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ ⟪egg⟫ Damien lpg Butcher Zeusbeer Stonesmile […] ⮪ n9gaming see this ^
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ Now does the destroyed/recovered ship still recorded in the history?
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ * is
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ what? no, destroyed vessels were never kept by Principia, and this isn’t what 2400 is about…
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ (iirc once reachstar told me at a time point seems to be after the isreali-named one, telling me that the save is become laggier when you had old ships in history; even getting it to pad, do some mission then revert makes it laggier)
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ +more
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ +(iirc it was in the F-series period)
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ * period, by the first letter of the name of build)
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ Alrighty here goes another moon mission 🤞🤞🤞🤞
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ DRVeyl RA feature request https://twitter.com/Tippen22/status/1476985855981993984
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ is there like a guide on a lunar mission with principia cause my brain is starting to hurt
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ There is https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/wiki/A-guide-to-going-to-the-Mun-with-Principia, though it is a bit out of date (and stock, but that should behave identically since you launched into the plane of the Moon’s orbit). Importantly, instead of KMB read MEO, instead of a purple navball expect an orange one.
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ What does the checkbox inertially fixed do?
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ it’s for doing burns when you have no guidance, and instead remain in a constant direction with respect to the fixed stars (typically a spin-stabilized burn).
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<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ Ahh okay so something way out of my depth then haha
<queqiao-> Is 3100m/s pretty average for a lunar injection?
<raptop> I'd handwavey pencil in 3400 m/s as normal, so sounds like it went well
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ Oh really? Thats awesome
<queqiao-> My first burn was 3150m/s roughly and my capture is gonna be 312m/s
<queqiao-> This was from cape as well
<queqiao-> Inclination is a little whack but it'll do for this contract
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ patched conics is 3150-3200
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ normally so
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ id say thats fine
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ am about to try a transfer myself thats 3155
<raptop> hm
<queqiao-> ⟨DRVeyl⟩ :/ That's... probably... safe... ish.
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ i did it!
<queqiao-> ⟨DRVeyl⟩ Also, curiously, that feature has actually been commented out for a long time: https://github.com/DRVeyl/RealAntennas/blob/master/src/RealAntennasProject/ModuleRealAntenna.cs#L178
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ i overburned a little was aiming for 120km
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ but 9000km is fine lol
<queqiao-> ⟨DRVeyl⟩ +(probably correctly, since it should be * fixedDeltaTime, not divide.)
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ SpaceMarine ive done that a few times haha
<queqiao-> What i have found is easiest is under burning just slightly and using my rcs to complete the burn rather than doing a correction burn afterwards
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ yea probably best, it was my bad as well i burned before due to some low orbit issues
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ but that was after i plotted the plan
<queqiao-> ⟨DRVeyl⟩ -(probably correctly, since it should be * fixedDeltaTime, not divide.)
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ i also didnt take into account engine spool up tiome
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ time*
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ okay since i now know i am capable of sending things to the moon am feeling like maybe a principa rp1 game is on the cards
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ it may be painful both lag and brain wise but eh
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ The thing is, when burn come close to the end, you need to carefully watch the orbit line, prediction line=flight plan, means that your burn has ended,
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ also a question, when i launch into plane with pvg it doesnt automatically launch once it has time warped to the point required
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ instead it goes orange and i have to manually launch from that point
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ is this normal or?
<queqiao-> ⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ MJ gets confused because inclination is constantly changing, so yes
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ okay
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ The stopping time indicator is inaccurate due to engine spool-up time etc.
<queqiao-> And another problem is that node will cease to be shown on navball once cutoff, so you get to stability assist. The residuals perpendicular to your burn direction may be fixed by RCS.
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ ⟪Kirk (He/Him)⟫ MJ gets confused because inclination is […] ⮪ MJ is completely paped by Principia.
<queqiao-> It cannot even help you to hold manoeurve.
<queqiao-> --------
<queqiao-> (However MJ maneuver planner still have .good uses for transfers, just plot with all KSP features on, then record node time(for example, after 1h40m), start a flight plan immediately, and add a node at that time. Set to instant impulse, then enter the DV of MJ pre-calculation, normally result in good results.
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ ⟪SpaceMarine⟫ i also didnt take into account engine […] ⮪ FYI latest RF tells you what the spool-up time is in the PAW, if you haven't seen.
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ oh it does, thats good
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ so lets say i do want to launch from baikanour or the cape, i was told you need to do an off plane transfer
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ how is that performed?
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ See pins for idealized explanation; in practice best done via kOS emo
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ * imo
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ okay and in regards to interplanetary transfers how does principia interact with transfer windows and TWP?
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ you cant make a normal maneuver node so
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ The dates given by TWP still work, after that you'll need to make the maneuver yourself
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ i see
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ ⟪SpaceMarine⟫ so lets say i do want to launch from […] ⮪ then you need to tune your launch tim
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ * timm
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ * time
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ If you launch to 90HDG then go above your velocity on ECEF navball, you'll end up entering an orbit equal to launch site inclination
<queqiao-> And you need to make sure that Moon lags about 90 degrees from your AN/DN
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ ⟪Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟫ If you launch to 90HDG then go above […] ⮪ (One might note that this is, in fact, what the pin I alluded to explains...)
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ Not only, I'm saying about directly get the exact launch time.
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ +(I'm accustomed to launching 90HDG at first, though)
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ Another thing is that you can use MEO(MCEA) directly to determine launch windoe
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ * window
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ ⟪Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟫ Not only, I'm saying about directly get […] ⮪ Why would one _not_ launch due east
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ > MCEAstop it with these systematic references to the outdated terminology; you like it, we get it, we don’t care. We have plenty of new players here who are just going to be confused further by poorly thought-out acronyms that are now found nowhere in the mod.
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ ⟪Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟫ If you launch to 90HDG then go above […] ⮪ You transfer at the node; a 90deg offset would imply that the Moon makes a quarter orbit during your transfer, _i.e._ ~seven days. That's clearly not true if you have an optimal transfer.
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ well Moon's gravity is large so coarse transfer don't seems to be a big problem
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ :3
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ well Moon's gravity is large so coarse transfer don't seems to be a big problem :3
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ For interplanetary transfer this is far more important, though
<queqiao-> ⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Are you going to a lagrange point and then to the moon?
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ bruh
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ * bruh, go to EM L point then to moon?
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ btw, quarter transfer fit best with Moon of large gravity from LEO
<queqiao-> However quarter transfer don't seem to fit Minmus very well afaik
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ New Reach video 👀 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGfsXmkKoRM
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ With a bibliography, too!
<queqiao-> ⟨Jovietus Gravitas⟩ Let's face it. Most of us wouldn't be here if reach didn't exist.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ (CNKI HTGC201801004 and HTGC201801005 I think, though actually getting one’s hand on the PDFs can be a tricky eggsercise)
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ ⟪egg⟫ (CNKI HTGC201801004 and HTGC201801005 I […] ⮪ I can try tomorrow
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ CNKI 🤔
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ CNKI 🤔, which is recently receiving bad reputation in China because of extreme pricing
<queqiao-> However my university did have some access to CNKI (of course it's my school's library paying for it)
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ I found SKTC20190201 (launch window 2029-2032; Uranus in 2043)
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ ⟪egg⟫ (CNKI HTGC201801004 and HTGC201801005 I […] ⮪ Oh, by searching this code on baidu, getting its name, and then insert back to my in-school CNKI account, I got it
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ (Discord eats Chinese name from the paper title; you can also get it in QQ chat)
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ I have the titles in both languages from cursory web search, what I don’t have is institutional access in China; thanks!
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪Al2Me6⟫ New Reach video 👀 https://www.youtube.co[…] ⮪ IIRC the extent of the Jupiter tour and the specifics of the Callisto orbit were very much up in the air when I applied for that PhD position at AIUB (which I didn’t get) in late 2019 (which makes sense: that PhD was about picking the Callisto orbit so that gravity field determination can discriminate between internal structure models), so if it’s based on 2018...
<queqiao-> ... publications the Jupiter-system part is probably somewhat speculative.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Reach’s skill with gravity assists will never cease to amaze me.
<queqiao-> ⟨Quadrupole⟩ ⟪Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟫ CNKI 🤔, which is recently receiving bad […] ⮪ Tbf all science publishers have the same reputation, if not worse. That's why more people are going open access.
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ Well now my primary search is open source articles on google
<queqiao-> ⟨Quadrupole⟩ SciHub is a thing
<queqiao-> ⟨(ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴍᴇɴᴛᴀʟshells)⟩ my primary search is sci-hub
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<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ ⟪(ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴍᴇɴᴛᴀʟshells)⟫ my primary search is sci-hub ⮪ from university access, or open source?
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ It’s a piracy website 😂
<queqiao-> ⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ The information wanted to be free
<queqiao-> ⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ The authors are almost always allowed to give out free copies one at a time anyway
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ * ‘piracy’
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ IIRC the extent of the Jupiter tour and […] ⮪ Looks like this came out of that AUIB programme: https://presentations.copernicus.org/EGU21/EGU21-9959_presentation.pdf
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ This is im assuming pretty obvious, but you can do a lunar flyby with a free return back to earth using principia?
<queqiao-> ⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Yes
<queqiao-> ⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ * Yes; go ahead of the moon
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ What plotting frame selection should i be using when trying to plan an interplanetary mission
<queqiao-> For example im trying to get a flyby with venus
<queqiao-> ⟨Quadrupole⟩ SCI, VCI
<queqiao-> Whatever makes sense
<queqiao-> ⟨Quadrupole⟩ You should play with the various frames and find out. It will help you prepare for future missions too.
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ Im getting pretty close to a venus encounter but just cant get there
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ Wish you could just click and drag the trajectory line 😂
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ I’d recommend working in VSO to actually get your encounter (and VCI once you’re dealing with venus orbits), that way you have better context on where you’re coming from.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ (which is also what the hovertexts recommend; I recommend reading the hovertexts :-p)
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ When launching should i be doing anything fancy or just going east and climbing to 180km? I cant bring my trajectory up to venus without spending 3000-4000m/s of delta v on normal/anti normal burns
<queqiao-> ⟨Quadrupole⟩ Use TWP to find out optimal LAN
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ in mechjeb?
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ no
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ * no, TWP is independent mod to determine launch windows
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ MJ is to plan best according to your orbit
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<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ Just got the mod - though its a little late now that im already in orbit haha
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ Getting closer
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ I sued kerbal alarm clock to find my transfer window so im assuming thats where i went wrong
<queqiao-> Now im 20 days fast forward and the trajectory is changing
<queqiao-> ⟨Zeusbeer⟩ I have a question
<queqiao-> ⟨Zeusbeer⟩ Does egg sleep?
<queqiao-> ⟨Zeusbeer⟩ If he lives in France, the timing of his messages is concerning
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ So close
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ Not the orbit i was hoping for but got there
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ What maneuvering frame should i use to execute the burn now?
<queqiao-> ⟨von Kerman⟩ VCI for the capture burn
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ ~actually VSO is also okay~
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ ⟪Stocky⟫ So close ⮪ wait, why are you using VCI
<queqiao-> ⟨Kerbinator(no guarantee suggest)⟩ usually using VSO sounds more reasonable when it comes to plotting transfer
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<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin deleted branch Hamilton - https://git.io/fpDwq
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin deleted branch Hamilton
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin commented on issue #3035: Poor performance while flight planning for extended periods of time around bodies with many moons - https://git.io/JStzf
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin commented on issue #3035: Poor performance while flight planning for extended periods of time around bodies with many moons - https://git.io/JStzo
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Butcher since you know the dark arts of the GPU, do you have any advice on a fast way to draw a 2d line with something like 10 000 points? Using Unity engine.GL I am eating something like 3 μs per point, which is becoming a problem.
<queqiao-> ⟨Butcher⟩ Cpu cost or gpu?
<queqiao-> ⟨Butcher⟩ The major cost is likely to be converting cpu side points to vertex data I imagine.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ CPU, I think that's before unity actually sends the packet.
<queqiao-> ⟨Butcher⟩ Yes, it probably has to expand everything out into triangles.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ i.e. it encompasses the Vertex3 call, not the End call
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ * calls,
<queqiao-> ⟨Butcher⟩ The cheaper way is to use a custom vertex shader to fetch the data such that you can just dump the source data straight into a vertex buffer.
<queqiao-> ⟨Butcher⟩ Typically something like a triangle strip and then use the vertex index in the shader to index the data to fetch.
<queqiao-> ⟨Butcher⟩ I'm not sure what unity provides for this though.
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<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪Butcher⟫ Typically something like a triangle […] ⮪ Note that these are 2D lines, not 3D: we do the reference frame transformations and projection in the C++ while choosing which points to plot; moving that to the GPU is probably intractable given that it depends on the whole ephemeris, and it is highly sequential because of our method for choosing the points anyway; in any case it is faster than the actual calls to the GL API…
<queqiao-> I guess the only thing there is to life is triangles, even in 2D?
<queqiao-> ⟨Butcher⟩ The gpu knows about two things, vertices and triangles.
<queqiao-> ⟨Butcher⟩ A 2d line is a 3d triangle strip with a transform that makes it appear 2d.
<bees> that view is outdated by ~12 years
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Butcher since you know the dark arts of the GPU, do you have any advice on a fast way to draw a 2d line with something like 10 000 points? Using Unity engine.GL I am eating something like 3 μs per point, which is becoming a problem.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ bees: could you elaborate on those advanced techniques from the distant future of the year 2010?
<bees> without reading too deep in the code, for (; !rp2_lines_iterator.IteratorAtEnd(); rp2_lines_iterator.IteratorIncrement()) { - screams "vectorize" at me
<bees> but it might be already doing that under the hood, idk
<bees> and i have no idea what unity allows
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ I believe I dumped that one ages ago for its dreadful performance.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ or was it the vectrosity thing?
<queqiao-> ⟨DRVeyl⟩ Even with https://docs.unity3d.com/ScriptReference/LineRenderer.SetPositions.html that just takes a NativeArray/NativeSlice of positions? Drat.
<queqiao-> ⟨DRVeyl⟩ No, that is Unity's, rather than Vectrosity.
<queqiao-> ⟨DRVeyl⟩ KSP looks to use Vectrosity. When I was first learning to draw in RA I also gave up on it, but I didn't have much reference to go by.
<bees> i would check if it is possible to feed Unity fully prepared data, and transform everything yourself
<bees> in parallel
<bees> (i hope it is possible)
<queqiao-> ⟨DRVeyl⟩ * Vectrosity [for some things, at least].
<queqiao-> ⟨DRVeyl⟩ * least] rather than Unity's LineRenderer.
<bees> because if you could only go through whole Unity to get something in the screen, you might be stuck if Unity itself is the problem
<queqiao-> ⟨DRVeyl⟩ ... I would expect Unity, the engine, is good at getting things on the screen. Generally speaking.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ bees: vectorization/parallelism aren’t really pertinent in this particular instance; the main issue is figuring out what the hell Unity is doing that takes three whole microseconds per point when we are feeding it screen coordinates for line endpoints to start with (and, as you say, to get rid of whatever that is that Unity feels like doing)
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪DRVeyl⟫ ... I would expect Unity, the engine, […] ⮪ yes, the specific API I am using might not be ideal for feeding it lines with tens of thousand of points (which aren’t necessarily the thing most commonly drawn).
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪DRVeyl⟫ ... I would expect Unity, the engine, […] ⮪ to be honest I would also have expected PhysX to be decent at physics prior to figuring out #2519; I am wary of having overly high expectations lately…
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ (context for those unfamiliar: https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/2519#issuecomment-627612478)
<queqiao-> ⟨Stonesmile⟩ > PhysX is crapI like that quote 😆
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<bees> i generally expect hardware be cheaper than optimizations nowadays
<bees> with resulting... suboptimal results in mass consumer software
<bees> *ahem* Electron *ahem*
<bees> only scientific/simulation libraries could save you from that madness
<bees> because _there_ 1% of performance might cost $10m
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<bees> i still would try feeding the whole array at once, just in case
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<queqiao-> ⟨theeo⟩ this is probably a common question but besides langrange point antics, what kind of stuff can you do with principia that you can’t do with the stock gravitational model? does principia make anything easier?
<queqiao-> ⟨Stonesmile⟩ You can do stuff like this
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ in the other direction, things like sun-synchronous orbits are possible, the critical inclination of Молния orbits becomes relevant, etc.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Lagrange points are, if anything, a very niche aspect of Principia.
<queqiao-> ⟨von Kerman⟩ With principia you know exactly where a maneuver (more importantly, several maneuvers) will take you. With stock not so much
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ how about stuff like a halo orbit
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ around the moon
<queqiao-> ⟨Stonesmile⟩ Halo orbits are an extension of Lagrange point stuff, they are in the same family
<queqiao-> ⟨Stonesmile⟩ Relevant video; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5O77OV9_ek
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ oh that’s the same people as that paper I linked the other day, neat
<queqiao-> ⟨Stonesmile⟩ Another fun thing that Principia allows is spreading out satellites to different LAN as the orbits drift
<queqiao-> ⟨dragon36⟩ I’m planning on playing principia and RSS without RO. How well does it work?
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ I think Damien has had success with that setup (using SMURFF)
<queqiao-> ⟨dragon36⟩ I just installed Smurff and am booting up the game now
<queqiao-> ⟨Stonesmile⟩ Principia and RO are not connected in any way, so should work in the same way as RSS without RO
<queqiao-> ⟨Soviet Onion⟩ ⟪Stonesmile⟫ Relevant video; https://www.youtube.com/[…] ⮪ this was a nice video when I needed to understand NRHO
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪Zeusbeer⟫ Does egg sleep? ⮪ good question
<queqiao-> ⟨Soviet Onion⟩ ⟪egg⟫ good question ⮪ have you been asking the same question yourself ?
<queqiao-> ⟨SpaceMarine⟩ what came first the egg or the bed?
<queqiao-> ⟨dragon36⟩ Does principia work in the stock solar system?
<queqiao-> ⟨Stonesmile⟩ Yes, Principia has configs for Stock
<queqiao-> ⟨pepsiman⟩ mhm, and it can be kind of nice to play with the n-body gravitation in an environment where other mods aren't taxing your computer imo
<queqiao-> ⟨pepsiman⟩ added to stock's simplicity
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪DRVeyl⟫ Is <https://docs.unity3d.com/ScriptRefer[…] ⮪ OK so having done a bit of archæology:
<queqiao-> — it looks like I started with LineRenderers with 3D lines everywhere in the C#-only prototype in early 2014 (https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/commit/7a2fd5923f5fee244bd783c30ec06ee7e27a7e7a);
<queqiao-> — when things were rewritten in the current C++-and-adapter configuration later that year, we switched to Vectrosity with 3D lines (https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/pull/227/files);
<queqiao-> — in the 1.1 upgrade, we ditched Vectrosity and started using the GL API directly, drawing in 2d (https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/pull/970/files).
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ So I guess I might want to investigate making meshes and drawing them directly if I want to go somewhere from there…
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ Perhaps you can try asking blackrack?
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ OK so having done a bit of archæology:
<queqiao-> — it looks like I started with LineRenderers with 3D lines everywhere in the C#-only prototype in early 2014 (https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/commit/7a2fd5923f5fee244bd783c30ec06ee7e27a7e7a);
<queqiao-> — when things were rewritten in the current C++-and-adapter configuration later that year, we switched to Vectrosity with 3D lines (https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/pull/227/files);
<queqiao-> — in the 1.1 upgrade in 2016, we ditched Vectrosity and started using the GL API directly, drawing in 2d (https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/pull/970/files).
<queqiao-> ⟨dragon36⟩ I got principia to work with 1.10 stock, but it gets stuck on the main menu in 1.12? Is this a known issue or more likely caused by conflicting mods
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪dragon36⟫ I got principia to work with 1.10 […] ⮪ 1.12.what
<queqiao-> ⟨dragon36⟩ 1.12.3.3173
<queqiao-> ⟨DRVeyl⟩ There have been a few Unity upgrades since 1.1 (2016) even. So could also be worth revisiting.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ I recommend reading the readme, and using a supported version.
<queqiao-> ⟨Stonesmile⟩ Or waiting for 1h
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪Stonesmile⟫ Or waiting for 1h ⮪ nope, I forgot about 1.12.3 so that will be one month.
<queqiao-> ⟨dragon36⟩ Oh dang. Just saw it only goes 1.12.2
<queqiao-> ⟨dragon36⟩ Time to wait for the new moon
<queqiao-> ⟨Stonesmile⟩ ⟪dragon36⟫ Time to wait for the new moon ⮪ As egg said, the _next_ new moon in ~28 days
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Alternatively, use the escape hatch https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/wiki/Principia-configuration-files#the-principia_override_version_check-configuration, but no support for those who use the escape hatch.
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JSYF5
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy 52c10f9 - Announce Hardy.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Damien lpg Butcher Zeusbeer Stonesmile […] ⮪ Damien lpg Butcher Zeusbeer Stonesmile Standecco Al2Me6 pEdro I forgot to mention one important thing that you should test with this build, besides monitoring save file growth from old histories in low orbits, namely looking at those histories (so that we can be confident that reanimation works). Please look back at some old trajectories from time to time in various reference frames,...
<queqiao-> ... setting the history length to something very long.
<queqiao-> > [Lov22] H. P. Lovecraft. “Herbert West–Reanimator”. In: Home Brew 1.1–6 (Feb.–July 1922).
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ * _Home Brew_
<raptop> DIY body modification, or something
<queqiao-> ⟨Soviet Onion⟩ ⟪egg⟫ 🌑 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._H._Ha[…] ⮪ Hardy !
<queqiao-> ⟨Soviet Onion⟩ ~I only came to know of him because of Ramanujan initially~
<queqiao-> ⟨Stonesmile⟩ ⟪egg⟫ 🌑 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._H._Ha[…] ⮪ Accompanying release of RSS with Rusian localization; https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealSolarSystem/releases/tag/v18.5.0
<queqiao-> Coming soon to CKAN, that takes some time
<queqiao-> ⟨Stonesmile⟩ * Russian
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Nice!
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ ⟪egg⟫ Damien lpg Butcher Zeusbeer Stonesmile […] ⮪ Re. reanimation, what's the expected behavior? Trajectory appearing in chunks all the way back to launch?
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ So I have an idea of what to look for
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<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪Al2Me6⟫ Re. reanimation, what's the expected […] ⮪ it will reappear in chunks the first time you ask for it for a given vessel after a scene change (after that it’s in memory so it will just be there), however you’ll only get it all the way back to launch if it doesn’t blow the segment budget, so probably only in HCI for a low earth orbit (where by virtue of being stretched along the Earth’s orbit, your orbit is very...
<queqiao-> ... straight, and thus requires fewer segments).
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<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ egg uh
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ The entirely planetarium also starts flipping upside down every frame or so while the debug window is open
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<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ +(independently of the division by zero thing?)
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ Will investigate more in a bi
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ * bit
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ the division by zero thing is somewhat distressing; hopefully it is a rare thing and not a new one.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ the planetarium being wonky while the debug window is open sounds a bit like the fast spin when hovering over some mod’s window. Issues involving the debug window aren’t really critical.
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ ⟪egg⟫ the planetarium being wonky while the […] ⮪ Well I don’t recall it happening before
<queqiao-> ⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ I've had it for the first second of opening debug for as long as I remember using debug
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ yeah, definitely worth investigating; the division by zero spam and correspondingly unusable analyser is the really worrying thing here, do we have a broken release?
<queqiao-> ⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ +and Principia
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ ⟪Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟫ I've had it for the first second of […] ⮪ Just the first second? This is continuous
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<queqiao-> ⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Yeah, just the first second
<queqiao-> It also happens in the tracking station recently
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<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ Exception:
<queqiao-> [EXC 14:49:33.135] DivideByZeroException: Attempted to divide by zero.
<queqiao-> principia.ksp_plugin_adapter.OrbitAnalyser.RenderWindow (System.Int32 window_id) (at <65c7bf2f4e324461b01170ebbad8bf3b>:0)
<queqiao-> principia.ksp_plugin_adapter.BaseWindowRenderer.RenderWindowAndRecordTooltip (System.Int32 window_id) (at <65c7bf2f4e324461b01170ebbad8bf3b>:0)
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ ...the standalone orbit analyzer is broken too
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ [EXC 15:04:45.373] ArgumentNullException: Value cannot be null.
<queqiao-> System.Collections.Generic.Dictionary`2[TKey,TValue].FindEntry (TKey key) (at <ad04dee02e7e4a85a1299c7ee81c79f6>:0)
<queqiao-> Parameter name: key
<queqiao-> System.Collections.Generic.Dictionary`2[TKey,TValue].TryGetValue (TKey key, TValue& value) (at <ad04dee02e7e4a85a1299c7ee81c79f6>:0)
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ principia.ksp_plugin_adapter.BaseWindowRenderer.RenderWindowAndRecordTooltip (System.Int32 window_id) (at <65c7bf2f4e324461b01170ebbad8bf3b>:0)
<queqiao-> UnityEngine.GUILayout+LayoutedWindow.DoWindow (System.Int32 windowID) (at <fa6f9762ac624af092525d37c9d516c4>:0)
<queqiao-> UnityEngine.GUI.CallWindowDelegate (UnityEngine.GUI+WindowFunction func, System.Int32 id, System.Int32 instanceID, UnityEngine.GUISkin _skin, System.Int32 forceRect, System.Single width, System.Single height, UnityEngine.GUIStyle style) (at <fa6f9762ac624af092525d37c9d516c4>:0)
<queqiao-> UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ Something with the localization changes, I'd guess?
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ ...but not borked anymore after switching to a different vessel?
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ ...and I spoke too early. FATAL'd.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Lock the doors, send us the save, send us the logs.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪Al2Me6⟫ ``` [EXC 15:04:45.373] […] ⮪ So I can replicate this one when asking for the analysis of a final trajectory which is not actually a bound orbit. Dumb, but not actually a critical impediment to usability (there would be no orbit to analyse anyway).
<queqiao-> More after dinner.
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<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ Assistance needed
<queqiao-> Should maneuvering frame be on ECI and plotting on MCI? Or both ECI until the burn gets much closer to my final PE around mars?
<queqiao-> Im about to do a burn to mars and ive forgotten which frames to use
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ Earth departure should be ECI
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ +burn
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ Plan your burn in Mars Sun Orbit, at least initially. I personally use MCI for fine-tuning and capture
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ * transfer
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ Okay cool so manuever should be on ECI and plotting doesnt matter for the burn or it does?
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ Just concerned when the principia window says plotting frame is different, makes me think my burn is going to end up wacky?
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ ⟪Stocky⟫ Okay cool so manuever should be on ECI […] ⮪ As long as you're pointed towards the node it doesn't matter what plotting frame you're looking
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ +in
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ Okay cool
<queqiao-> So the message principia shows is more of a heads up
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪Stocky⟫ Okay cool So the message principia […] ⮪ exactly ; that’s why it’s grey rather than orange which we use for warnings.
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ Awesome
<queqiao-> Well ill see how this pans out then
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ So I can replicate this one when asking […] ⮪ The FATAL log sounds like it is related to reanimation, which means it wouldn’t affect Hardy. The division by 0 is weird.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ > sounds like(there will be more certainty once we look at the journal and decode the stack, obviously.)
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ Question
<queqiao-> When im doing my burn, yesterday i was ending my burn just slightly early so i could finish it off with RCS and get a real nice and accurate trajectory
<queqiao-> However today im trying to do the same with mars and as soon as i switch to rcs the dotted line disappears and all i am left with is a shorter purple noodle
<queqiao-> The manuever node stays on the nav ball but i dont actually know where my trajectory is going to end up
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ You'll need to increase the step count in the main Principia window
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ Why is the dotted line disappearing though? It wasnt yesterday. Maybe im doing something different
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ I think its because im pressing active rcs after i finish with my main engines instead of leaving it alone
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ It's because you changed the result of the planned burn significantly without pressing 'rebase'
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ It's because you changed the result of the planned burn significantly by using much lower thrust
<queqiao-> Press 'rebase' to get it to update based on your current trajectory, but then the maneuver would also disappear since it's in the past
<queqiao-> ⟨Al2Me6⟩ The 'active RCS' button is per-burn anyways
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ So ive put the steps up a heap and the purple line isnt moving
<queqiao-> Any other ideas?
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ I tried upping the tolerance a heap as well
<queqiao-> ⟨von Kerman⟩ open predition settings in the main principia window, adjust there
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ Nice
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin opened issue #3271: Crash in TEST3262Hardy - https://git.io/JSsjM
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled issue #3271: Crash in TEST3262Hardy - https://git.io/JSsjM
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ The fuchsia line is the prediction, so it responds only to the prediction settings, not to those of the flight plan.
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ Im struggling with correction burns for this one
<queqiao-> I get my prediction burn/tracjectory where i want it but by the time i RCS into position my purple noodle is thrown a fair way off and the burn ends up way off again?
<queqiao-> ⟨von Kerman⟩ You mean the trajectory is close to plan, but so sensitive that even turning the vessel with RCS can throw it off?
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ Yep thats what is happening
<queqiao-> ⟨von Kerman⟩ At this point i stop planning the RCS burns and just point prograde, then try various translation buttons until the trajectory changes as necessary
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ Even having my RCS on stability is throwing it way off haha
<queqiao-> ⟨von Kerman⟩ Well, absolute precision is not even necessary, correction can be done mid course but will of course take more dV
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ thing is my payload is only a science probe and i dont think i have enough power regen if i have the avionics connected
<queqiao-> That and also i have no MLI for my kerolox so i presume it will boil off
<queqiao-> ⟨von Kerman⟩ ... are you correcting with a kerolox thruster? how is that possible?
<queqiao-> ⟨von Kerman⟩ or do you need a large correction burn? in that case just do it, correct finely with RCS later
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ True its only 7ms
<queqiao-> No i wasnt doing a correction with a proper engine not sure what i was thinking then
<queqiao-> Ill double check if i have deep space av on this vessel
<queqiao-> ⟨Stocky⟩ Okay that did the trick
<queqiao-> Did a burn 150 days away from earth
<queqiao-> So why is the RCS correction to just get into position so much more sensitive near earth than mid course?
<queqiao-> My purple noodle barely nudged getting into position then
<queqiao-> ⟨von Kerman⟩ trajectory is long, even small changes throw it off
<queqiao-> ⟨von Kerman⟩ It's also related to RCS design. If RCS thrusters are placed ideally then turning the vessel should not have a large effect. But usually it's not possible to turn cleanly without translating to some direction
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<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin commented on issue #3271: Crash in TEST3262Hardy - https://git.io/JSGxR