egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
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<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ (The camera is inertial; the Earth is rotated such that the orbit is lowest inclination WRT the Moon.)
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ I am very surprised that the rotation looks like that; I would have expected it to go all the way around as the plane of the moon does the same.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Hmm. I guess on the other side it does end up being higher anyway.
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ I could be wrong, but I convinced myself that the relative inclination (which is always nonnegative) is minimized when the orbital plane is tilted in the same direction as the Lunar plane, with respect to the Earth.
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ * Earth's rotational axis.
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ hello the principia masters....
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ question
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ it is "normal" that in some TWP predictions is just not possible to get closer to the target? even double -checking jecetion´s lan and inclination?
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ * ejection´s
<queqiao->
⟨Quadrupole🇵🇸🇸🇾🇨🇺⟩ We cannot tell without a screenshot
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ I´m dojng the third launch for to check this, screenshot will come
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ in the two prior launch I got the same issue
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ * launchs
<queqiao->
⟨Quadrupole🇵🇸🇸🇾🇨🇺⟩ Regardless, my 🔮 tells me your maneuver frame is not ECI.
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ That was the first thing I check
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ now it works better, I did another TWP, anyway it cost me 483 extra Dv, and as I understand is too much
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ the maneuver looks good, but it was 400dv more expensive, the previous TWP window couldn´t even get closer to the planet
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ Show your TWP porkchop plot? ⮪ ^
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ ⟪Al₂Me₆⟫ Show your TWP porkchop plot? ⮪ No, that´s not the problem. I´m doing that intentionally
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ Yeah, a 6 km/s Mars transfer suggests you chose something horribly out of the window and TWP was giving you garbage
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ Well if you’re not launching at a window you shouldn’t complain that it’s expensive
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ well I following the prediction of TWP
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ it is a window
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ * 6.6
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ I really doubt that
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ is just that is not the better window
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ Then show a porkchop plot proving that?
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ well I was following the prediction of TWP
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ my first screenshot shows you the data of the porkplot
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ That's not the porkchop
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ That's a manuever
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ it´s the data
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ Which, as previously mentioned, is garbage
<raptop>
Neither screenshot has a porkchop plot?
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ ⟪.auer⟫ it´s the data ⮪ Which says it is not in a window
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ ok, so, in short, I can´t select something out of the suggested by TWP, so all the other data provided in the porchop is useless?
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ I have no idea what you seleceted
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ * selected
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ I will try to doit again
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ You presumably set some bad constraints on TWP, and it consequently gave you a bad transfer
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ (the porkchop)
<raptop>
4.95 degree phase angle, so wildly off from the 'ideal' case of vaguely near 45 degrees?
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ ⟪.auer⟫ ok, so, in short, I can´t select […] ⮪ Well. The porkchop just show if you wanted to transfer at some given time, how much it would cost. It's up to you to decide whether you're willing to pay for it.
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ ⟪Al₂Me₆⟫ Well. The porkchop just show if you […] ⮪ exaclty
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ I´m not complaining about the total DV
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ I ´m complaining about the mneuver suggested
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ The issue is with these non-ideal windows, a small error can cause a much larger miss
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ The issue here is that the more garbage your window is, the more sensitive the maneuver becomes. In the regime you're in the difference you're seeing is insignificant.
<queqiao->
⟨Kirk (He/Him)⟩ And TWP probably isn't optimized to serve anything other than Hohmann and near-Hohmann
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ * 'window'
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ ⟪Kirk (He/Him)⟫ And TWP probably isn't optimized to […] ⮪ ok, that makes sense
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ talking about nuclear engines, I saw some yourtuber saying that nasa is vedeloping a nuclear engine that will get to mars in 9 days...yeah right
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ * youtuber
<raptop>
Assuming a brachistochrone at closest approach, that would be a bit under 0.5 m/s^2 acceleration
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ * developing
<raptop>
IIRC, there's a renewed interest in nuclear-thermal (and of course ongoing look into small power reactors), but 9 days is, uh...
<raptop>
Got 386 km/s of Δv? Asking for a friend
<queqiao->
⟨.auer⟩ ⟪raptop⟫ Got 386 km/s of Δv? Asking for a friend ⮪ There are some mods with engines that can give you that, not sure if realisitic
<queqiao->
⟨the rocket science kid⟩ those would be either a lot of nuclear fusion or straight up antimatter
<queqiao->
⟨the rocket science kid⟩ mars in one month sounds more reasonable
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<queqiao->
⟨butcher6994⟩ ⟪Kirk (He/Him)⟫ And TWP probably isn't optimized to […] ⮪ It just solves Lambert's problem which is Hohmann iirc.
<queqiao->
⟨Daedalus⟩ hi guys I am wondering how can I add sedna to principia? I've checked the
<queqiao->
⟨Daedalus⟩ hi guys I am wondering how can I add objects to RSS + principia? On the information page it says that the game will crash if adding any extensions to RSS, so does that mean I have to do edits to both mods? If yes then what configs should I change?
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<queqiao->
⟨blackeagle_612⟩ Is it normal and supposed that with principia a vessel does not lock its controls during warp (and therefore keeps changing its orientation)? Or did i miss some checkbox or something? I guess it has to do the the different reference frames?
<queqiao->
⟨amselfass⟩ ⟪blackeagle_612⟫ Is it normal and supposed that with […] ⮪ It has nothing to do with locked controls or reference frames, it's just a result of the fact that you will always have a tiny amount of residual angular movement when you enter warp.
<queqiao->
I think that the Persistent Rotation mod (which is now baked into RO) will zero out these residuals upon entering warp, but Principia's implementation doesn't do that.
<queqiao->
⟨amselfass⟩ +default
<queqiao->
⟨blackeagle_612⟩ Well then i just wonder what Nathan does in his current YT series that his persistent rotation is still working, when he is warping.^^
<queqiao->
⟨amselfass⟩ ⟪blackeagle_612⟫ Well then i just wonder what Nathan […] ⮪ Spin stabilization will greatly help, if your probe has a favourable geometry and the travel time is not too long.
<queqiao->
⟨blackeagle_612⟩ I see. I might leave a comment on his series and ask. Thanks!
<queqiao->
⟨Δv1㎧⟩ (In this channel because of the language) does anyone happen to know what this book is in English?
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ Rough translation would be "the transmission of waves through structures".
<queqiao->
⟨Al₂Me₆⟩ Ah, "Wave Propagation in Structures".
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ J.F. Doyle, Wave Propagation in Structures, Springer-Verlag, New York, 1989; 2/E 1997.
<queqiao->
⟨Δv1㎧⟩ Thanks!
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ > In this channel because of the languageI am surprised that it is because of that, as opposed to because it is a question of bibliography.