<Althego>
which is pineapple in english because of some reason
<Althego>
i wouldnt say it is best, but i like oiuzza with it
<Mat2ch>
oh, you are right. My brain is somewhere else right now :D
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<raptop>
pepperoni + pineapple is a good combination
<SporkWitch>
i smell bait, even though i agree :P
<raptop>
heh
<Althego>
which is the more vicious war? the pizza on pineapple or the tabs vs spaces?
<Althego>
hehe i meant pineapple on pizza
<SporkWitch>
i suspect tabs vs spaces, because there's actually consequences in that one, whereas the pizza argument boils down to "order and eat what you like"
<SporkWitch>
(PS: the answer is "spaces")
<Mat2ch>
The tabs vs. spaces is easily answered. Tabs. Because you can select your own tab width. There are people out there who have bad vision and use a huge font, they put tab width to 1. Everyone else can adjust it to their needs.
<Mat2ch>
So if you want to be a decent person, use tabs. ;)
<SporkWitch>
which breaks alignment if you don't agree on tab width with the other person
<Althego>
it doesnt
<Althego>
because you only use tabs
<Althego>
the mixed tabs people
<Althego>
those should burn
<Izaya>
single space
<SporkWitch>
then you can't achieve alignment while also obeying line width standards
<Mat2ch>
line width standards are meant to be broken.
<Althego>
i have a screen with about 400 characters width. enforced line width is stupid
<SporkWitch>
they exist for several good reasons, not least of which is readability
<Mat2ch>
those come from a time when displays were a lot smaller. Even Linus Torvalds started to admit this.
<SporkWitch>
granted that's one of the reasons, but it's not the only one
<SporkWitch>
regardless, you can't achieve alignment with ONLY tabs, without adding a LOT of unnecessary whitepspace. Standard example would be aligning items in an array, where you only need one or two extra spaces to achieve alignment. If you're using all spaces, no issues, but if you use tabs and then spaces for the extra needed, it breaks if someone uses a different tab width
<Mat2ch>
yes, you should make breaks in a very long line. But enforcing a hard limit doesn't make it more readable. That's why we should use our common sense :D
<SporkWitch>
even the tab advocates typically acknowledge this
<Althego>
and that is the only drawback of t he tabs
<SporkWitch>
(I want it on record that althego started this :P)
<Althego>
very rare case
<Mat2ch>
Then do the align thing in a way it doesn't matter ;)
<Althego>
but you are stuck with preformatetd lines with all lines if you use spaces
<Althego>
huge drawback
<SporkWitch>
whereas spaces have no drawback, since any decent editor will sub in a number of spaces equal to your tab width when hitting tab
<SporkWitch>
how's it a drawback? it's well-formatted and stays that way lol
<Althego>
no, it is fromatted as one person thought it was
<Izaya>
ngl friendos if your editor can't ingest any number of tabs or spaces and reformat it to show as you wish maybe your editor is the problem, not the characters themselves
<Althego>
cant adjust to your preference
<Althego>
you want this to turn into an emacs vs vi or what?
<Izaya>
>:D
<SporkWitch>
Izaya: people have been trying for proper elastic tabs for decades, without success
<raptop>
If I get asked this question in an interview, I'm saying "what the design doc says"
<SporkWitch>
come on althego, that's not even an argument, we're talking about text editing, and emacs is still missing a decent text editor :P
<Izaya>
"what does the codebase use?"
<SporkWitch>
well yeah, if you're joining a project that already exists, you obey the conventions of the existing codebase; that goes without saying, even when the existing codebase is doing it wrong :P
<Izaya>
and when you start your own project you do what's natural and don't think about it and then everyone else can eat your bad decisions
<Althego>
i have been trying to eliminate mixed tabs and spaces (half tabs thing, really stupid) for a while, but cant, because omg, it will change every line
<Izaya>
truly wonderful
<SporkWitch>
hence spaces :)
<Mat2ch>
how about we program in visual boxes and not in lines? :D
<Althego>
lol the worst idea ever
<Izaya>
I'll do you one better:
<Izaya>
we start writing in forth
<Mat2ch>
I thought whitespace, but ok.
<SporkWitch>
Mat2ch: ever used early 2000's Visual Basic? that's basically what it is... it's practically lego mindstorms it's so dumb and limited
<SporkWitch>
i figured since it's literally the proper title of the language it would be acceptable in context.
<SporkWitch>
not like i'm going around cussing, literally was bringing up a specific esoteric language lol
<Althego>
at that pont whether bf or whitespace, doesnt really matter
<SporkWitch>
probably not an original idea, but i'm not picturing someone writing a bunch of C, with a whitespace program hidden inside it... lol might be a little tricky since LFs are used, too, not just tab and space....
<SporkWitch>
*now picturing
<Althego>
so when is 2 coming?
<Althego>
and how?
<Althego>
that early access is it steam?
<SporkWitch>
February 24th still, Steam for sure, and I assume direct from the devs as well
<Althego>
that would be good, then i can try it too
<SporkWitch>
given that they forced that new launcher on us even on Steam for KSP, I think it's a safe assumption.
<Althego>
steam epic and direct download
<Izaya>
launcher isn't there on linux :)
<Althego>
i have used the launcher the first few weeks lol
<Althego>
and never agian
<Althego>
1 because it never updated 2 because you dont need it
<SporkWitch>
had a few that i couldn't get working in WINE, and I couldn't get usable performance from a Windows VM even sitting at the desktop (I really think microsoft did something to kill windows vm performance on non-windows hosts)
<SporkWitch>
left me stuck on windows until i get bored of / stop playing the ones i can't get working on linux
<Althego>
actually ms and linux made a lot of vm related interworking improvements to my knowledge
<Althego>
in both directions
<Izaya>
I'm just happy that I get to smug at windows users over KSP again
* Izaya
smugs in stable 64-bit build
<Althego>
hehe
<Althego>
remember when it was basically 32 bit only?
<SporkWitch>
i just have no other way to explain the performance issues i was encountering, especially with the resources I was throwing at it. I'd never had issues with qemu-kvm in the past
<Althego>
i would be surprised if there was a 32 bit version this time
<Izaya>
no, I've never run a 32-bit build of KSP :^)
<Izaya>
oh, unless you mean computers in general
<Althego>
i meant ksp
<SporkWitch>
literally even just startup and sitting at the desktop, it was like a slideshow
<Izaya>
SporkWitch: well you should be running it in Hyper-V you see
<Izaya>
ESXI if you must
<SporkWitch>
Izaya: so windows host OS lol
<SporkWitch>
thus defeating the whole point of using a windows VM only for those things that won't work in linux
<Izaya>
Why would you ever want to use Linux?
<Izaya>
WSL2? Never heard of it.
<SporkWitch>
why would you ever want to use windows?
<Althego>
because it is the best game launcher
<Althego>
and that is why i use it
<Althego>
for everything else i ssh to linux :)
<SporkWitch>
i'd rather run the windows VM for the three games that don't behave in linux lol
<Izaya>
you wanna know today's fun windows-related weirdness?
<Izaya>
game wouldn't launch until I killed the edge updater exe that didn't work properly in WINE
<SporkWitch>
literally DCS, Star Citizen, and SWG are the only things I can't get behaving in linux, and SC pisses me off because they promised native linux support :'(
<Izaya>
they also promised a workable game before 2100 sooooooo
<Izaya>
sorry I'm being an antagonistic ... unpleasant individual it's late and I'm mildly intoxicated I'm gonna go
<SporkWitch>
they'd had a full gameplay loop for a few years now; don't beat the memes to death, it's tiring when there are legitimate rather than exaggerated criticisms for them
<Althego>
star citizen is the ftx of gaming :)
<SporkWitch>
like i said, tiring, because there are legitimate things to criticise, they're just never what people bring up
<SporkWitch>
also, while I could see their higher-ups donating to the DNC, like FTX did, it's still not relevant to any of the legitimate criticisms for the game
* Izaya
goes to look up which one that is
<SporkWitch>
FTX was the crypto scam that was in a mutual-gain situation of donations and promotion/protection with the DNC, which is why it took so long for anything to be done about it, and even longer before the boss was arrested and charged
<Izaya>
no I heard about FTX, but I don't remember which one the D in DNC is
<SporkWitch>
Democratic National Convention
<Izaya>
yee
<Izaya>
but I can never remember which one stands for what and who they put forward as candidates and such
<SporkWitch>
I'll take it to DMs so as not to derail too much here
<Izaya>
not really relevant to my own life, y'know?
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<SporkWitch>
FLHerne: i haven't read that comic in YEARS. Used to live near where it's set, knew the author lol
<FLHerne>
SporkWitch: tbh you haven't missed much, it's been "meh" for years