egg|nomz|egg changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer.
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<soundnfury>
does that translate as "grandbird"?
<soundnfury>
s/rd/rb
<Qboid>
soundnfury meant to say: does that translate as "grandbirb"?
<soundnfury>
oh no wait I'm misremembering german, "Urgroßvogel" would be great-grandbirb
<UmbralRaptor>
First birb, maybe? See also: archaeopteryx.
<soundnfury>
yeah, that makes more sense
<soundnfury>
either that or the Nietzschean concept of the Will To Birb :/
<UmbralRaptor>
Will to Birb, aka "everyone wants to fly"
<soundnfury>
heh
<soundnfury>
titan colony wen
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<SnoopJeDi>
soundnfury, titan colony seems unlikely with the surge in crypto ;P
<soundnfury>
SnoopJeDi: is that some sort of GPU joke?
<SnoopJeDi>
it is
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<UmbralRaptor>
Well, how else would you keep it warm?
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<APlayer>
Ellied: Can a generic transistor be used to amplify a 3.3v PWM output to 5v?
<APlayer>
The PWM signal itself is only a control signal too, so shouldn't carry much current
<APlayer>
Definitely less than 50 mA
<soundnfury>
APlayer: I'm not Ellied, but I believe it can, as long as the pulse frequency isn't stunningly high
<APlayer>
Define stunningly high?
<soundnfury>
megahertz?
<soundnfury>
really it depends how much fidelity you need from the output
<soundnfury>
a generic transistor will have some capacitance. But since you'll be operating it at a pretty low gain, you should be OK
<APlayer>
PWM frequency is, apparently, around 500 Hz
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<Ellied>
Are you trying to boost 3.3 to 5V with just a transitor?
<Ellied>
or do you have a 5V supply already
<egg|laptop|egg>
UmbralRaptor: I see cows
<UmbralRaptor>
Moo?
<Ellied>
oh, I misread soundnfury's "isn't" as "is" and thought he was describing some silly edge case of using a transistor as a boost converter lol
<Ellied>
okay yes, a single transistor with a pull-up resistor will probably do fine for what you're doing
<Ellied>
500 Hz is "stunningly high" in no electronics context I'm aware of. That's a pretty glacial frequency for basically anything electronic IME.
<Ellied>
the cheapest transistor you can find should have no trouble with that.
<egg|laptop|egg>
!kd
<Qboid>
egg|laptop|egg: Invalid ID!
<egg|laptop|egg>
!kd list
<Qboid>
egg|laptop|egg: Invalid ID!
<egg|laptop|egg>
!kd -list
<Qboid>
egg|laptop|egg: Invalid list argument! Valid arguments are 'events' and 'subs'.
<egg|laptop|egg>
!kd -list:events
<Qboid>
egg|laptop|egg: I sent you a list of all Kountdown events.
<Ellied>
!lskd
<Ellied>
alas
<egg|laptop|egg>
UmbralRaptor: I feel like I have been slacking on populating !kd and nobody else does it :-p
<egg|laptop|egg>
(last one on that list is Зенит-2SБ/Ангосат)
<egg|laptop|egg>
!help kd
<Qboid>
kd: Prints out the details for Kountdown Events
<Qboid>
parameters: -add (Add Kountdown event. Syntax: !kountdown -add name|description|time.), -list (List pending Kountdown Events or subscribers), -remove (Delete Kountdown by id.), -edit (Edits a Kountdown by id.), -subscribe (Subscribe yourself or a channel to Kountdown.), -unsubscribe (Unsubscribes yourself or a channel from the Kountdown.)
<Qboid>
example: !kountdown 1
<egg|laptop|egg>
!kd -add GovSat 1 (SES-16)/Falcon 9 v1.2|A Falcon 9 v1.2 will launch the GeoStar-3-based GovSat 1 (http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/ses-16.htm) from SLC-40 into GEO for SES and Luxembourg.|2018-01-31T21:25Z
<bofh>
you need: 1 humidifier, ideally attached to central HVAC & a few drops of ethyl mercaptan.
<APlayer>
Ellied: Alright, thanks. The only things that I am concerned about is that I (1) need to avoid an analog smoothing-out an (2) need a response as fast as possible
<APlayer>
If those should not be a concern, then I will go for it
<Ellied>
what is this PWM controlling again?
<APlayer>
The reason is that I am looking at some rather yummy ESCs for that drone project I was working on, but my microcontroller only hass 3.3v output pins
<APlayer>
has*
<Ellied>
ESCs?
<APlayer>
That's an RC thing, electronic speed controls. They are for controlling motors
<APlayer>
And need PWM control signals themselves, which are usually 5v
<egg|laptop|egg>
.....
* egg|laptop|egg
stares at bofh
<Ellied>
ah, gotcha
<Ellied>
I wouldn't worry too much about signal distortion at 500 Hz
<bofh>
egg|laptop|egg: what? :P
<APlayer>
Alrighty, thank you!
<APlayer>
For reference, how high would the frequency need to be for you to get worried about distortion?
<Ellied>
depends, of course, but generally not until at least the tens of kHz
<Ellied>
I have some shitty radio transmitters that won't really work above 4 kHz, but those are especially bad
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<APlayer>
Because the frequency can actually be adjusted, 500 MHz is the default one. I don't think I will have to do it, but who knows what weird stuff this project will bring?
<Ellied>
with short lines and CMOS gates, you can get up to tens of MHz with little trouble
<bofh>
Ellied: what the hell transmitter do you have that distorts above 4*kHz*?!?
<Ellied>
bofh: some shitty 433 MHz-band thing, I have no idea how you're supposed to use it, but my tests have revealed that if you give it a digital signal between about 2 Hz and 4 kHz it comes out the other end okay
<Ellied>
higher than that and it gets really chaotic, lower than that (including transmitter off) causes the receiver to produce garbage
<APlayer>
Is it that circuit that is the very most generic separate transmitter and receiver board?
<bofh>
so they probably do sone crazy shot where they fail to LPF it but assume a bandlimit anyway, resulting in a mess.
<bofh>
also $5 says with transmitter off it literally starts trying to decode thermal noise as signal (implying it's an asynchronous receiver design, which belongs in the trash).
<APlayer>
Because that's the cheapest and lightest option, apparently standard and the one I chose too
<Ellied>
and bofh, yes, it technically belongs in the trash but I've been amusing myself with seeing how much usefulness I can squeeze out of it
<APlayer>
I guess I am going to look at different options then
<Ellied>
my best results so far have been with duty-cycle modulation, feeding it a constant frequency from a 555 with the input connected to the control voltage. Doing that, I've managed a data rate of nearly 300 bits per second.
<egg|laptop|egg>
!kd -add Канопус-В 3 & 4, S-Net 1–4, Lemur-2 z1–z4/Фрегат-М/Союз-2.1а|A Союз-2.1а with Фрегат-М upper stage will launch two Канопус-В satellites (http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/kanopus-v.htm) from Восточный Площадка 1С into a heliosynchronous orbit.|2018-02-01T02:07:18Z
<Qboid>
egg|laptop|egg: Added event #20
<bofh>
I'm... really curious what the RF waveform of that'd look like.
<Ellied>
yeah me too
<APlayer>
egg: Your Russian grammar is off :P
<Ellied>
we only have one scope with the bandwidth for it, I might see if I can get ahold of it
<egg|laptop|egg>
APlayer: undoubtedly, feel free to correct
<egg|laptop|egg>
!acr -add:CSES China Seismo-Electromagnetic Satellite
<Qboid>
egg|laptop|egg: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<APlayer>
Should be "Восточная Площадка 1С"
<APlayer>
(Feminine form)
<bofh>
Ellied: I mean I assume "constant frequency, modulating waveform duty cycle" you're doing something like a Differential Manchester line code?
<bofh>
5mW into a highly directional radiator or a quarter-wave dipole with 1:1 VSWR matching is going to do a lot better than connecting some random wire to it & hoping for the best.
<APlayer>
As a native Russian speaker, this sounds wrong. Perhaps add a comma, then?
<egg|laptop|egg>
could do that
<egg|laptop|egg>
(or parenthesize just like Wikipedia)
<egg|laptop|egg>
!kd -edit:20 description A Союз-2.1а with Фрегат-М upper stage will launch two Канопус-В satellites (http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/kanopus-v.htm) from Площадка 1С (Восточный) into a heliosynchronous orbit.
<Qboid>
egg|laptop|egg: Updated event #20: Канопус-В 3 & 4, S-Net 1–4, Lemur-2 z1–z4/Фрегат-М/Союз-2.1а - A Союз-2.1а with Фрегат-М upper stage will launch two Канопус-В satellites (http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/kanopus-v.htm) from Площадка 1С (Восточный) into a heliosynchronous orbit. - 2018-02-01 02:07:18
<APlayer>
Alright, better now. Also, I am off for now, but be back later. See you!
<egg|laptop|egg>
bofh: yes I used a fullwidth solidus here :-p
<bofh>
egg|laptop|egg: good :P
<bofh>
that's correct usage.
<egg|laptop|egg>
bofh: this character is allowed in C++ identifiers for some reason :-p
<egg|laptop|egg>
(but prime is not, somehow)
<egg|laptop|egg>
!kd -add TRICOM 1R/SS-520 5号機|The SS-520 5号機 will launch the 3U cubesat TRICOM 1R (http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/tricom-1.htm) from 内之浦 KS into an eccentric orbit with a 31° inclination.|2018-02-03T05:00Z
<Qboid>
egg|laptop|egg: Added event #22
<Qboid>
0d 4h 0m 0s left to event #19: GovSat 1 (SES-16)/Falcon 9 v1.2 [at 2018-01-31 21:25:00]. Say '!kountdown 19' for details
* egg|laptop|egg
pets ANBOcat
<egg|laptop|egg>
!wpn UmbralRaptor
* Qboid
gives UmbralRaptor a gravitomagnetic bird
* UmbralRaptor
🔪 the charge distribution of the hydrogen atom.
* UmbralRaptor
🔪 sign errors.
<awang>
!u 🔪
<Qboid>
U+1F52A HOCHO (🔪)
<awang>
...That shows up as a blank on my terminal :(
<egg|laptop|egg>
UmbralRaptor: kozai!
<UmbralRaptor>
awang: part of Unicode since 2010. =\
<awang>
UmbralRaptor: 8 years hasn't been enough for widespread adoption?
<awang>
I'm surprised
<awang>
Also, TIL Xcode includes something called UnRezWack
* UmbralRaptor
🔪 xcode for breaking every c compiler on every Mac yearly.
<awang>
UmbralRaptor: What exactly breaks?
<awang>
I know Homebrew has quite a bit of trouble with new Xcode versions
<UmbralRaptor>
awang: you get odd xcrun errors, and need to reinstall xtools
<Qboid>
0d 3h 0m 0s left to event #19: GovSat 1 (SES-16)/Falcon 9 v1.2 [at 2018-01-31 21:25:00]. Say '!kountdown 19' for details
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<awang>
I see
<awang>
I don't use Xcode directly, usually, so I have little experience with that...
<UmbralRaptor>
I don't either.
<UmbralRaptor>
I don't even have xcode really installed! But, upgrading OSX versions breaks gcc, clang, etc, and needs an extra update.
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<awang>
Ah, got the command line tools installed?
<awang>
And you can't really rely on Homebrew since the update breaks Homebrew formulae...
<awang>
Fun fun fun
<APlayer>
Aww yess, F9 launch happens at a sane time of day for me
<whitequark>
bofh: lol
<egg|laptop|egg>
!wpn whitequark
* Qboid
gives whitequark a Александров Glamdring
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<Qboid>
0d 2h 0m 0s left to event #19: GovSat 1 (SES-16)/Falcon 9 v1.2 [at 2018-01-31 21:25:00]. Say '!kountdown 19' for details
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<Qboid>
0d 1h 0m 0s left to event #19: GovSat 1 (SES-16)/Falcon 9 v1.2 [at 2018-01-31 21:25:00]. Say '!kountdown 19' for details
<SilverFox>
so, I need your guys' help. After that numberphile video on superpermutations I got thinking of how to code something like that. So far my first obstacle is figuring out a good way of generating the permutations, being the possible combinations of the numbers in an efficient manner. I could probably do it really shittily, but I'd rather not
<SilverFox>
so for example the permutations of 3 being things like 123 132 312 so on so fourth
<kmath>
<bofh453> Physics /'fɪzɪks/ (n): the study of approximating natural phenomena as harmonic oscillators with increasing complic… https://t.co/JCODH4y6b5
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<Qboid>
0d 0h 30m 0s left to event #19: GovSat 1 (SES-16)/Falcon 9 v1.2 [at 2018-01-31 21:25:00]. Say '!kountdown 19' for details
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<UmbralRaptor>
SilverFox: efficient may prove difficult. Something about n numbers having n! permutations.
<UmbralRaptor>
SilverFox: If you want to choose one at random, numpy has a function.
<SilverFox>
by efficient I really mean not shitty
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<UmbralRaptor>
Instructions unclear.
<SilverFox>
I'm hardcoding the permutations currently
<SilverFox>
this is rather bad
<SilverFox>
calculating the superpermutation of 2 was like, less than milliseconds, and now for 3 it's taking some time
<SilverFox>
although, I am doing a shitty i++; and checking if i contains the permutaions
<Qboid>
0d 0h 10m 0s left to event #19: GovSat 1 (SES-16)/Falcon 9 v1.2 [at 2018-01-31 21:25:00]. Say '!kountdown 19' for details
<UmbralRaptor>
I'm moderately certain that the best possible implementation scales poorly.
<UmbralRaptor>
Anyway
UmbralRaptor is now known as ElectrodynamicRaptor
<Qboid>
0d 0h 2m 30s left to event #19: GovSat 1 (SES-16)/Falcon 9 v1.2 [at 2018-01-31 21:25:00]. Say '!kountdown 19' for details
<SilverFox>
welp, it took my laptop 6m52s to get the superperm of 3 being 123121321
<Qboid>
0d 0h 0m 0s left to event #19: GovSat 1 (SES-16)/Falcon 9 v1.2 [at 2018-01-31 21:25:00]. Say '!kountdown 19' for details
<SilverFox>
what kind of coding value is greater than a uint64?
<awang>
SilverFox: 80-bit floating point, if your computer supports that?
<awang>
Or 128-bit integer extensions from gcc?
<awang>
(maybe others)
<SilverFox>
idk it's some asus laptop, nothing special
<SilverFox>
has a core i7 in it
<awang>
I want to say 80-bit registers in FPUs are relatively common nowadays
<awang>
I don't know for sure though
<awang>
And you have to do nonportable things to get access to them
<SilverFox>
oh gods am I going to have to do the gross thing and segment my iterating value then?
<SilverFox>
that's gonna be some gross stuff
<awang>
Maybe?
<awang>
There are libraries that take care of that
<awang>
And GCC has __uint128_t
<awang>
Which should at least hide the gross parts
<SilverFox>
I think because I'm dealing with N possible input that I'd have to implement segmentation at some point, otherwise it's just delaying the inevitable
<awang>
Yeah, looks like GCC's __int128 is two 64-bit registers internally
<SilverFox>
my endgoal is to calculate the superpermutation of 6, since the dude in the video said he didn't know what the lowest value of it was
<egg|laptop|egg>
if you're iterating over more than 2^64 values you have a different problem than the type
<SilverFox>
so im just going to i++ my ass up there
<egg|laptop|egg>
SilverFox: please try to estimate how long that will take you
<SilverFox>
years probably
<egg|laptop|egg>
quite
<e_14159>
I don't think so.
<egg|laptop|egg>
!w 2^64 ns in years
<e_14159>
Probably dozens to hundreds.
<egg|laptop|egg>
e_14159: yeah better
<SilverFox>
if I can multi-core it then it'll go by quicker
<egg|laptop|egg>
SilverFox: so I think your longevity is going to be a bigger problem than the width of your integer type
<SilverFox>
nawwwwwww
<awang>
SilverFox: It's only going to knock off <num cores> from that exponent
<egg|laptop|egg>
!wa 2^64 ns in years
<Qboid>
egg|laptop|egg: convert 2^64 ns (nanoseconds) to years: 584.9 years
<e_14159>
Well, if you have 52 cores, you should be able to maybe do it in ten years.
<SilverFox>
KK
<SilverFox>
KEK
<SilverFox>
that's if it can do a single iteration in a nanosecond
<e_14159>
You might be able to do it by intelligently concatenating the permutation strings?
<SilverFox>
the time it takes per iteration isn't the same though, if it doesn't match the first possible permutation then it's just going to throw it away
<SilverFox>
and go onto the next perm
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<awang>
SilverFox: OEIS says that superpermutation(n) is bounded below by n! + (n-1)! + (n-2)! + n-3
<egg|laptop|egg>
SilverFox: a ns is a good order of magnitude for a lower bound for doing *anything*
<SilverFox>
okay, but I can time the time it takes to do an iteration with them Stopwatch things C# has
<SilverFox>
also we could average the time it takes by taking the superperm time of 3, which was 6m53s for taking care of the extra milliseconds
<SilverFox>
!c 123121321 / (6*60 + 53)
<Qboid>
298114
<SilverFox>
perhaps I have that backwards
<SilverFox>
!c 1 / 298114
<Qboid>
0
<SilverFox>
*sigh*
<SilverFox>
!c 1.0 / 298114
<Qboid>
3.35442146293029E-06
<SilverFox>
is that a nano or what?
<SilverFox>
I think that's microseconds
<awang>
nano- is e-9
<SilverFox>
3.35us per iteration in debug mode
<e_14159>
If you have the choice between brute-forcing and anything else, choose anything else.
<e_14159>
(Terms and conditions apply)
<SilverFox>
what is the current estimated lowest superperm of 6?
<e_14159>
Also: "and the [[Constitutional Constitution of the United States Constitution]] and [[Constitutional Constitution]] and [[Constitutional Constitution]]..." my language model might have some issues :-)
<SilverFox>
e, yeah I am bruteforcing and it's gross, I wanted to get the first step done before the second, which was getting a method of getting all possible permutations of N before getting a good method of finding the superperm
<SilverFox>
awang, wut
<SilverFox>
oh, you mean length
<SilverFox>
so I need that number * 3.35microseconds
<awang>
SilverFox: Oh, do you mean the actual value of the number?
<SilverFox>
in decades
<SilverFox>
or centuries, whichever is most convenient
<awang>
Well, I guess you can estimate it as 10^870 * 3.35 microseconds
<Qboid>
awang: convert 3.350000000000000×10^870 µs (microseconds) to years: 1.062278031456114×10^857 years
<SilverFox>
>10^857 years
<SilverFox>
KEK
<e_14159>
At this point, the unit doesn't really matter. It's more than 10^800 years.
<SilverFox>
what is the lifespan of the universe?
<e_14159>
Less.
<SilverFox>
sick
<awang>
Last black holes evaporate around 10^100 years
<awang>
According to Wikipedia, at least
<e_14159>
Maybe use a different approach?
<SilverFox>
that's like when I calced how long it'd take to simulate every cubic centimeter on kerbin of air with like 8 layers of atmosphere and it came to like, 1/10th of the lifespan of the universe
<SilverFox>
anyways, what happens when we calc the superperm of 6? do we move on to 7?
<awang>
I guess?
<awang>
Assuming you want to keep calculating superpermutations
<SilverFox>
well, you can cut a lot of bruteforce time off by simply starting at where you left off, because there's no way the superperm of 7 is gonna be less than 6
<Qboid>
0d 4h 0m 0s left to event #20: Канопус-В 3 & 4, S-Net 1–4, Lemur-2 z1–z4/Фрегат-М/Союз-2.1а [at 2018-02-01 02:07:18]. Say '!kountdown 20' for details
<egg|laptop|egg>
oh wow they're in quick succession
<awang>
SilverFox: The thing is that the search space grows so quickly that starting where you left off doesn't help a ton
<Qboid>
egg|laptop|egg: Description: A Союз-2.1а with Фрегат-М upper stage will launch two Канопус-В satellites (http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/kanopus-v.htm) from Площадка 1С (Восточный) into a heliosynchronous orbit.
<egg|laptop|egg>
doesn't seem to be a livestream
<awang>
I should learn Russian one of these days
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<Qboid>
0d 3h 0m 0s left to event #20: Канопус-В 3 & 4, S-Net 1–4, Lemur-2 z1–z4/Фрегат-М/Союз-2.1а [at 2018-02-01 02:07:18]. Say '!kountdown 20' for details
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<egg|laptop|egg>
awang: sometimes we end up with some confusing identifiers in Principia
<egg|laptop|egg>
"UnmanageableVesselVelocity"
<egg|laptop|egg>
(that's the velocity of an unmanageable vessel, not an unmanageable velocity)
<awang>
egg|laptop|egg: Evidently we need parse trees for identifiers now
<awang>
Or lisp-ish
<awang>
((unmanageable vessel) velocity)
<egg|laptop|egg>
awang: well, there are plent of brackety things that are allowed in identifiers...