r4m0n changed the topic of #kspmodders to: Technical discussion ONLY (KSP related or not), for random shit-talking, join #shitshow (seriously)
<Greys> AVE straight up killed one https://youtu.be/M3WB-EwdJnM
<kmath> YouTube - BOLTR: Harbor Freight Bauer vs. Hercules | THERE WILL BE SMOKE!
<FoxBot9000> yt: BOLTR: Harbor Freight Bauer vs. Hercules | THERE WILL BE SMOKE! | AvE
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<SilverFox> so I figured out how to mine ethereum with my GTX 1060
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<SilverFox> 20.0ish Megahashes per second, neato, the GTX 1080ti does about 30.0ish
<SilverFox> I wonder how efficient vega is for mining, because those laptops would be hella low power consumption relative to the full desktop cards, depending on how much hashing 8 CUs of vega can do
<Greys> is mining ethereum on a 1060 weird?
<SilverFox> yes
<SilverFox> although, I can make about 20$ a month profit
<Greys> please insert rant about how ethermium is different from bitcoint here [[
<SilverFox> it's not really
<SilverFox> it's going to crash the same way bitcoin will
<Greys> so why can't you normally mine it on a 1060
<SilverFox> because difficulty increases over time as more people mine it
<SilverFox> so hashing rate per second goes down
<SilverFox> which means less coins on same hardware
<Greys> mmkay, that sounds exactly the same
<SilverFox> so then you just move to another cryptocurrency and repeat the cycle
<SilverFox> this is what cryptocurrencies do
<Greys> yea but only bitcoin hasn't gotten totally fuckmonkied
<SilverFox> I'd say that's from marketing and adoption
<SilverFox> if it wasn't popular it'd get buttfuck;ed
<Greys> I hear bitcoin is going to split into bitcoin and biytcoen
<SilverFox> *shrug*
<SilverFox> dunno
<SilverFox> just started this thing
<SilverFox> however, if I got a 1080ti, which has 150% my hashrate, I'd make about 26$ a month in profit
<Greys> oh, the story gets better
<Greys> they were going to split so that each half would still be viable where the whole is about to hit some implimentation limit they haven't solved
<Greys> but they decided not to
<SilverFox> also when do we declare someone as dead when they aren't online anymore?
<SilverFox> because rip majiir
<Greys> we don't
<Greys> he's disappeared for a year before
<SilverFox> really?
<SilverFox> and stayed connected?
<Greys> yep
<SilverFox> wow
<SilverFox> that's impressive
<Greys> this may have been before you existed
<SilverFox> maybe during the time after I existed
<SilverFox> and before I also existed
<SilverFox> because that was about a year
<Greys> nah
<Greys> it would have been just before that
<Greys> he came back, and stayed, despite you
<SilverFox> what a trooper
<Greys> yea, but he was in college then
<Greys> life is easy when you're a child
<SilverFox> I mean okay
<Greys> majiir is two years younger than me
<SilverFox> he is but a baby to you
<Greys> well yea, because I was refused government funding and parental acceptance, and had to enter the workforce during a depression instead of continuing my education.
<SilverFox> rip
<Greys> yip
<SilverFox> F
<SilverFox> yo is there PCIe splitters?
<Greys> aren't you glad you still get to be a baby? imagine if you had to work shitty jobs for the last seven years
<Greys> we were looking into that before, I think we found one
<Greys> but only x4 channels into 4 x1 channels if I recall
<SilverFox> because I could just split it out of my case and get another GPU in there since mining doesnt use the PCIe lanes that much
<Greys> you don't gotta because that one; I get it
<Greys> have you considered getting that asus mobo with 18 PCE x1 slots?
<SilverFox> sick
<SilverFox> I bet it's like, 600$
<SilverFox> I was wondering how they'd manage that
<Greys> you basically have to put every GPU on a riser
<SilverFox> also, never link a gif that's not animated
<Greys> whatever mom
<Greys> whao
<Greys> 181$
<SilverFox> oh that was less than I expected
<FoxBot9000> ASUS B250 MINING EXPERT LGA 1151 Intel B250 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 ATX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com
<Greys> this makes no sense to me
<SilverFox> that's not that bad considering I paid 145$ for mine
<Greys> even with the 16$ shipping this thing costs less than real motherboards
<Greys> "may contain lead"
<SilverFox> wut
<SilverFox> why
<Greys> california
<SilverFox> lol
<SilverFox> being in the presence of california induces lead in you
<Greys> so a neat feature you can see in the graphics, this thing actually accepts 3 powersupplies, and puts six x1 slots on each one
<TheKosmonaut> "Danger: May contain california"
<SilverFox> kek
<Greys> seems unlikely, california is way too expensive to work with
<SilverFox> wanna know what's funny
<SilverFox> GPU market gets fucked by miners
* TheKosmonaut read that twice
<SilverFox> but celeron and pentium lineup is also alive because miners
<SilverFox> because having more than that in a CPU is just a waste of power
<Greys> power schmower, underclocking/uncervolting is easy; those celerons are like fiddy cents
<SilverFox> when Im making 20$ a month from constant usage, I don't want to increase my time to return
<Greys> it's a bit surprizing that nobody has figured out how to run these GPUs on a pi-scale device yet
<SilverFox> I mean
<SilverFox> there are things called antminers
<SilverFox> they plug in via usb or some shit
<SilverFox> channel I watch has em hooked up to raspi
<SilverFox> although, USB to PCIe slot would do it
<SilverFox> yeah that's a riser
<Greys> surely it can be simpler than that though
<SilverFox> what do you mean?
<SilverFox> you can get FPGA devices if you configure them properly im sure
<Greys> antminers are serious business from what I'm looking at
<SilverFox> new ones are
<SilverFox> there are small old ones worth like, 30-80$
<SilverFox> but they aren't profitable
<SilverFox> because they old
<SilverFox> you need new hardware to keep up
<Greys> I just want to attach a GPU to a 30$ <word> computer with an ethernet port; and then a separate standard PSU
<Greys> for computational tasks you shouldn't need a whole *ATX computer to support the GPU
<SilverFox> right
<Greys> likewise you don't need to reinvent the GPU
<SilverFox> I wonder if you can just straight plug in the USB 3 cable there with the riser into the pi
<Greys> I doubt it but, it is USB3, so maybe; then you'd need to write the software to make them talk
<SilverFox> pi uses 10-12W power, so that's pretty good
<SilverFox> Greys, if it needs software for that
<SilverFox> maybe it recognizes it idk
<SilverFox> maybe you plug it in and it's like "ooh boy it's a graphics card"
<Greys> nah; that's not even a valid USB cable
<SilverFox> what do you mean?
<Greys> it's USB3A double-ended
<SilverFox> double ended?
<Greys> A on both ends
<Greys> C supports symmetric cables but 3 doesn't
<SilverFox> male connector on both ends, right
<Greys> USB is hermaphrodidic
<SilverFox> okay
<Greys> every single end has been male
<Greys> and female
<SilverFox> so is the cable a straight through or crossed?
<Greys> it's custom, they're just using bulk ends and sockets
<SilverFox> because it can be valid to have two male ends
<Greys> it can't because 3 doesn't support host<->host connections
<SilverFox> but 2.0 does?
<Greys> C does
<Greys> and it does that by rather poorly negotiating who gets to be the host
<SilverFox> so type A just doesn't
<Greys> which is why the nintendo thing can charge a mactop
<SilverFox> I can't find any PCIe slots from USB cables
<SilverFox> but im sure it would revolutionize things if we could do it
<SilverFox> because that's a dramatic decrease in power consumption
<Greys> see what the plan really aughta be is kickstart a raspberry pi based device that has a PCIe chip, so it can "natively" support a PCIe x1 slot
<SilverFox> PiMiner or some shit
<Greys> everything except that PCIe chip is available as open source designs, so all you'd need to do is figure out the one chip
<SilverFox> PCIe spec is open though isn't it?
<Greys> to go a step further, best case is this is a universally compatible shield
<Greys> it is, and the chips are probably out there too
<SilverFox> what chips?
<Greys> the chip that makes your device support PCIe
<SilverFox> what if we didnt need it
<Greys> I'm listening
<SilverFox> cant support be done in software
<SilverFox> since we're doing USB
<Greys> do you think you can run a x1 slot off the GPIO?
<SilverFox> a USB uhhhhhhhhh
<SilverFox> maybe
<Greys> I still think there should be a shield to defend the pi from the power situation of the card
<SilverFox> we can use the 4 holes for those standoffs and that would help too
<SilverFox> so many "wires" would we need to connect to a PCIe x1 slot
<SilverFox> how many electrical connections are there, we can start at that
<Greys> I think we'd just need up from the x1 mark
<SilverFox> ooh that looks like a lot
<SilverFox> lets see if we can slim it down
<Greys> A1-11 and B1-11, so 22, except some of those are power, which will be diverted to the PSU
<SilverFox> make like a PCIeSlim standard
<Greys> guiding principal here is to use appropriate devices for their duty, GPU to mine, PSU to power, pi to do almost nothing
<SilverFox> Pi for CPU and data transfer
<Greys> almost nothing
<SilverFox> sure
<Greys> way less than justifies any modern full scale computer
<SilverFox> so lets figure out what we dont need, and see how many wires we are left with
<SilverFox> I see 5 v12
<SilverFox> 3 gnd
<Greys> so A4, 9-11, B4, 7, and 8 are all power, those won't go to GPIO
<SilverFox> I wonder how much current the lanes pull
<Greys> so that's 15 things that might need to go to thte pi
<SilverFox> like all these connections, and what voltage they run at
<SilverFox> what the fuck are these X's?
<Greys> looks like mostly 12V and 3.3V
<SilverFox> we can work with 3.3V
<SilverFox> unless data is sent at 5, that works too
<Greys> ok so x1 is only the first 18 pins on each side
<SilverFox> but we'd need to definitely figure this out
<Greys> there's six more grounds up through A/B18, so that's another six down
<SilverFox> no no
<SilverFox> that'd be grounded to the pi
<SilverFox> the data pins that have ground go to pi ground
<Greys> can't be, most of those are going to be 12v grounds
<SilverFox> like the uhh
<SilverFox> pin 15
<Greys> I don't know what HSOn(0) means
<SilverFox> 12,13, 15 have grounds which would go to the pi
<SilverFox> no idea either
<Greys> tthey can't groupd to the pi, so we'll have to have transistors to isolate them but pass on the data
<SilverFox> well AvE did a video on the things where you can't criss cross the angry pixies between circuits
<SilverFox> otherwise they wont chooch
<SilverFox> that's what I'm worried about
<Greys> if they have a shared path to ground you're fucked
<SilverFox> im worried about multiple grounds though
<Greys> the Pi's wall wart is a path to ground, so if we ground the card into the pi it'll get fried
<SilverFox> yeah, we dont want to ground the GPU to the pi definitely
<Greys> we keep all the electricity between the card and the PSU, and use transistors to detect information on the pins
<SilverFox> but all the data pins on the PCIe connector which the pi is sending data too would be
<SilverFox> hmmm
<SilverFox> that sounds interesting
<Greys> like relays, the coil isn't connected to the contacts
<SilverFox> is it acting like basically an AND gate with one input always on?
<SilverFox> or a relay yeah
<Greys> my eyes are burning
<SilverFox> mine were too
<Greys> actual relays would be too slow
<SilverFox> I got past that stage
<SilverFox> indeed
<Greys> Hyratel, tag, you're it
<Hyratel> whut
<SilverFox> we're making a raspi with a PCIe x1 connector
<SilverFox> for mining
<Hyratel> ?_?
<Greys> how can we connect a high power GPU to a raspberry pi GPIO, except it's powered by a standard PSU, and the pi doesn't get set on fire
<Hyratel> why not power the pi off the same PSU?
<Hyratel> 5v is 5v
<SilverFox> and we're working out the pinouts and stuff needed and how to ground things
<SilverFox> HMMMMMMMM
<SilverFox> good question
<Greys> we can do that, but will it protect the pi from being on fire?
<Hyratel> and the PSU has more than enough chooch
<SilverFox> I like this
<Hyratel> whut
<SilverFox> lets do taht
<Hyratel> what would it have to protect against
<Greys> current; pis are really sensitive to current
<SilverFox> Greys, the 5v is isolated from the 12v, things should be fine
<Hyratel> *under*current
<Greys> no, overcurrent, you can burn them up real easy
<Hyratel> wha
<Greys> they have essentially no current protection on the GPIO pins
<SilverFox> Greys, he meant power the pi itself from the PSU
<Hyratel> oh, then you need an isolator or level shifter (at the same in/out voltage)
<SilverFox> not the GPIo
<Greys> yea that's fine
<SilverFox> yeah
<SilverFox> we couldmake a shield for the pi that would accept the plugs from the PSU, and it would signal transistors to path the signals
<Greys> that seems to be the plan
<SilverFox> if we made the system multiplexable, it would definitely be a big seller as well
<SilverFox> because mGPU is the way to go
<SilverFox> all those people with 3 1080's
<Greys> m?obile
<SilverFox> restricting the PiMiner to 1 GPU would not be that bad, but would definitely restrict its potential
<SilverFox> multiGPU
<SilverFox> or mGPU as coined by AMD
<Greys> so there's one more issue we've ignored; what kind of frequency does the signal talking to the GPU need to be at, and can the pi handle that directly
<Greys> I suspect it can't
<SilverFox> mmmm
<SilverFox> pi runs at 1.2Ghz
<SilverFox> pi3 anyways
<SilverFox> ARM isn't that good at scaling the Ghz so I hear
<Greys> is that the GPIO bus speed or the CPU, and how does that abstract to having to talk on multiple pins every clock cycle
<SilverFox> CPU speed, bus speed is something hella stupid
<Greys> what kind of stupid
<SilverFox> bad stupid
<SilverFox> like, maybe 8MHz?
<SilverFox> 80?
<SilverFox> idk
<SilverFox> much lower
<SilverFox> 40Mhz or some shit
<Greys> good news, PCIe's clock is dynamic; but there's still probably a limited acceptable speed
<SilverFox> right
<SilverFox> so we're operating from 20-40MHz
<Greys> it's not on the wikipedia page
<SilverFox> we basically have to go off of benchmarks done
<SilverFox> so lets see what we can do with 20Mhz
<Greys> according to this chart the PCIe x1 v1 clock speed was 2.5GHz, but in v3 it's now 8GHz
<Greys> I think we're going to need a chip for talking to the GPU
<Greys> a chip that goes faster than the GPIO, and can talk down to it
<SilverFox> was that max clock speed?
<Greys> it's not that good of a chart
<SilverFox> because there isnt a CPU on market that does 8Ghz
<Greys> the PCIe bus is separate
<SilverFox> the cpu can't talk faster than its clock rate
<SilverFox> so at most we can talk at 1.2Ghz
<Greys> sure it can, clock division
<Greys> and intermediary chips
<Greys> I gotta bathe
<SilverFox> have fun
<SilverFox> 25Mhz I'm seeing on this forum from 2014
<Greys> while the shower heats up I have more yuri to read, bye
<SilverFox> gay
<Greys> so gay
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<Greys> SilverFox, in a gamegrumps episode from earlier Arin and Dan were talking about how there's two genetic strains of cows, one of which has a mutation that causes it to produce a lot more milk, but all of that milk is slightly more irritating to humans, I think the good strain of cow was like, A2 or something; do you know if this is real science or hippybullshit
<SilverFox> idk
<SilverFox> it's plausible
<SilverFox> it probably has more lactose in it, which is what is irritating to us
<SilverFox> because yanno
<SilverFox> we aren't cows
<Greys> yet
<SilverFox> "The a2 Milk Company claims that milk containing A1 proteins is harmful, but a 2009 European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) review found that there was insufficient evidence to prove that bioactive peptides in A1 milk have a negative effect on health.[2]"
<SilverFox> thus it's hippie shit
<Greys> what about canada food safety authorities
<SilverFox> it doesnt really matter *who* does it, so long as they're credible
<Greys> EFSA'
<Greys> s was a metastudy
<SilverFox> metastudies are valuable too
<Greys> "animal studies"
<Greys> ... the bad chemicals in A1 milk have weak morphine-like effects
<SilverFox> this is probably something I should read over
<SilverFox> link me the studies
<Greys> just go to the health effects section
<Greys> the EFSA's review seems largely insubstantial regarding the issue entirely
<Greys> that said they did say insufficient evidence; and it appears that evidence has not been sought by any party
<Greys> I dislike the "we don't know" argument, because of how many things we just haven't tried to know, but likewise there's a lot of positions built on thin arguments that given evidence we know doesn't correlate well, we should make assumptions and stop seeking knowledge in that field
<Greys> "we know less about what's under the sea than what's in the sky" is one that gets to me, because I know there's far less work being done on what's in the sea; simply because the work doesn't spread well; we can take shitloads of space photos and then everybody on earth can work on whatever they want with it, but collecting data on deep sea vents is relatively difficult, and relatively easy, when put between space and other parts of the ocean
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<G-Mobile> Shit business idea: attractive 15cm stainless steel balls on desk stands or wall mounts that plug into a wall socket with plastic live/neutral prongs, then the sphere connects to the ground.
<G-Mobile> Placr them around your house for visually pleasing places to discharge your staticy ass body with minimal arcing
<G-Mobile> Just palm the ball, dont use your finger tips, and the buildup wont be able to spark all in one place, so you dont get zapped
<G-Mobile> Call now to ordrr shaquil o'neil's stainless steel balls
<G-Mobile> They're delectrifying
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