r4m0n changed the topic of #kspmodders to: #kpmodders Should we move to a non-KSP named channel? http://www.strawpoll.me/13734886
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<SilverFox>
r4m0n, waiting on majiir is unreliable as fuck
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Snoozee is now known as Majiir
<Greys>
all hail
<Majiir>
lolwat
<Greys>
which part
<Majiir>
Oh, it was off by an hour
<Majiir>
I thought I happened to join just after a conversation about how waiting for me to join was fruitless
<SilverFox>
it is tho
<Majiir>
I am missing a lot of context on the above r4m0n, but my understanding is this is the rough sequence of events:
<Majiir>
1. #kspmodders is created and people talk about modding a lot
<Majiir>
2. People talk about modding less in #kspmodders, and other interests develop
<Majiir>
3. A crowd of nincompoops decides that since whining about people not talking about modding didn't work, they'd make their own channel. Nobody in #kspmodders decides to ban modding talk or anything, nor does anyone protest the new channel.
<Majiir>
4. Said other channel now wants to turn off #kspmodders?
<Greys>
4 is wrong
<SilverFox>
4 is wrong
<r4m0n>
3~4 is off, actually
<Majiir>
It had a question mark
<SilverFox>
basically, channel is going to shit and devolving faster than I can make bad code
<r4m0n>
nobody started a new channel, they just wanted this one to stop scaring/scarring unwary ones
<Greys>
modders turned into primarily about politics and lolis, theko got mad, sarbian realized what he had signed up for, sarbs and egg jumped ship, theko got struck down, and somebody proposed that we really shouldn't be affiliating this with KSP
<Majiir>
There was an unfortunate trend for a while where people took jokes about #kspmodders and decided to turn that into policy
<SilverFox>
wait what
<SilverFox>
when did that happen
<Majiir>
You are 0.2% guilty of this if I recall
<SilverFox>
me?
<SilverFox>
sick
<r4m0n>
0.2%? lol
<SilverFox>
I did something
<Majiir>
AFAIK no +o's here have disallowed modder discussion? That would be the biggest problem IMO
<SilverFox>
who is the most guilty?
<Greys>
btw Majiir, the new channel is #shitshow; it's been DISTURBINGLY RESPECTFUL so far
<Majiir>
For a time some individuals would intentionally steer people away from this channel, which doesn't really do much to help the channel's focus, but it can't be helped much except to say "yes, you can ask that question here"
<r4m0n>
anyway, looks like most active people here don't mind moving to another channel (currently jokingly #shitshow). what remains to be decided is what to do with #kspmodders
<r4m0n>
I'm undecided between muting it and reditecting to #kspmodding/the new channel on the topic, or keeping it up with strict moderation
<Majiir>
I'll begrudgingly move to #shitshow if it means keeping in touch with r4m0n and Greys. I prefer #kspmodders since there's a semblance of hope that more technical folks will come by, and I like technical folk.
<Greys>
egg has a bunch of channels for that if you're interested
<Majiir>
I am in many of them
<SilverFox>
in which he is in many
<Greys>
I'm sure I wouldn't be welcome so whatever
<SilverFox>
I am also in those channels
<Majiir>
It's highly unlikely that anyone from outside the community would know about them, though
<Rokker>
Majiir: just join kspmodding
<Greys>
we could start a generic and findable channel about technical discussion
<r4m0n>
so, what you guys says? should we shut this down or make it a proper technical channel?
<Rokker>
Majiir: this channel scares technical folks away
<Majiir>
Rokker, the creation of #kspmodding was midguided IMO
<Rokker>
technical folks don't come to a channel thst mostly discusses loli and pedophilia
<Greys>
I think making this into something else is unfeasible
<r4m0n>
it's simple, we continue the usual discussions on #shitshow
<Majiir>
Rokker, and I think that's an exaggeration. *THAT SAID*, making #shitshow is probably a good move in order to provide a place that's actually dedicated to that.
<r4m0n>
here, only technical matters
<Greys>
unless we have teh technical discussion to drive it, we'd be hoping that people will show up with technicals for us to discuss and reestablish the channel with a different meta
<Majiir>
r4m0n, I think that works
<Majiir>
Greys, let's be frank for a moment
<Majiir>
You, me and Fox are why the channel went to shit
<SilverFox>
yay I did a thing
<Majiir>
You and Fox for originating the garbage off-content shit, and me for not shutting it down
<Rokker>
Greys: shut up, you are why this channel turned into an autistic shithole
<Majiir>
and participating
<Greys>
and if we do have the technical discussion to drive it, we'd be imposing a rigid domain on at least ourselves
<Greys>
definitely
<Majiir>
Rokker, you stop too, you're an autistic shithole no matter where you go.
<Majiir>
Greys, you and I (and even Fox) have good technical discussions here quite regularly
<r4m0n>
the tech discussions are fine and should stay here
<Rokker>
Majiir: I'm aware
<Greys>
I gotta go to work, you still be here in half an hour so I can ask you bad questions about webhooks or tasks or something
<Rokker>
but I didn't kill this channel
<Rokker>
I'm not why it turned everyone away
<Majiir>
Fragmenting channels along the *same topic* is not a good way to keep communities together
<Majiir>
There's culpability all around, and I've acknowledged my piece.
<Rokker>
it's too late to save this channel
<Majiir>
You can leave if you don't care to participate here.
<Rokker>
my suggestion is to mute this channel and put a topic directing everyone to the real modding channel and to shitshow
<Rokker>
depending on their needs
<r4m0n>
anyway, if we are continuing here, I'll try to bring the lost mods back
<r4m0n>
this channel is going to be strictly moderated from now on, though
<Greys>
don't try to push them against their wishes
<Rokker>
r4m0n: there is already an actually active channel with all of the technical mods
<Rokker>
it's too late to save this channel
<Rokker>
it has a reputation
<Greys>
Sarb left because he doesn't want to be involved with political discourse; and I respect that
<r4m0n>
then you're welcome to go there and stop bugging us
<Majiir>
^
<r4m0n>
it's mostly due to you that all this crap is going on
<Greys>
why hasn't rokker been banned? it's been made super duper clear over the last two days that everybody hates him
<SilverFox>
this channel has a basis of being related to ksp, but there's already another channel dedicated to such with more people who can accurately help
<Majiir>
r4m0n, there was a no-censorship policy here that obviously got a little out of hand. I propose that topics are moderated, but minutia like profanity and banter are not.
<r4m0n>
profanity is fine
<Rokker>
you are splitting channels by keeping this alive
<Rokker>
stop it
<r4m0n>
political and NSFW posting isn't anymore
<r4m0n>
off to #shitshow for the usual stuff
<Rokker>
stop trying to hold onto a false sense of power
<Majiir>
Rokker, it's an IRC channel mate
<r4m0n>
I have a dozen channels open here, I don't mind one more or less
<Rokker>
Majiir: so is #kspmodding
<Rokker>
where all of the modders are
<Rokker>
and that still has a good reputation
<Rokker>
and is more active
<SilverFox>
>more active
<SilverFox>
ehhhhhhhhhhhh
<Majiir>
You seem quite invested in convincing me to come join
<SilverFox>
he was paid by the people there
<SilverFox>
confirmed
<Rokker>
Majiir: I don't give two shits if you join
<Majiir>
I don't think I'd really get along with people who decided that the best way to fix a community was to split it
<Majiir>
And, quite frankly, I want a lot of technical talk with people who like space and game programming. I don't actually want to *mod KSP* right now.
<Rokker>
nigga
<Rokker>
ur the one advocating splitting it
<Rokker>
all of the modders are there now
<Majiir>
Splitting along topic lines, yes, not creating redundant channels
<Rokker>
you aren't listening here
r4m0n changed the topic of #kspmodders to: Technical discussion ONLY (KSP related or not), for random shit-talking, join #shitshow (seriously)
<Rokker>
there is a channel full of modders, that is in good standing, and is where modders are directed too
<Rokker>
and you want to tell people to come to this channel as well
<r4m0n>
good, go there and convince them all to move here
<Rokker>
a dead channel that never discusses modding
<Rokker>
no
<Rokker>
fuck you
<r4m0n>
we have seniority, and now the house is clean
<Rokker>
you power hungry dumbass
<r4m0n>
last chance to drop it
<Majiir>
Rokker, the only reason I give a shit about the channel is for the idlers who occasionally come back. It's an older channel and that *does* have value. To me, anyway.
<Majiir>
Nobody's forcing you to participate.
<xShadowx>
ya modders wont be coming here, you already showed your lack of ability to keep away cesspool crowd lol
<Majiir>
We will eventually get a little sick of the personal attacks.
<Majiir>
But it'll take a while.
<Majiir>
xShadowx, you're confusing lack of ability with lack of caring
<r4m0n>
no, I had a pretty strict rule of no-rules
<xShadowx>
lack of ability to care qualifies as lack of ability
<r4m0n>
this created this mess
<r4m0n>
I like the messy community that formed here, and I hope it continue on #shitshow
<xShadowx>
i hope it continues there too :P
<xShadowx>
away from me
<xShadowx>
:)
<r4m0n>
but if we're alienating modders enough that people want to shut down this channel, we can keep it proper
<r4m0n>
so Greys, SilverFox you OK with keeping the fun stuff to #shitshow and the tech discussion here or there?
<r4m0n>
and you go over too Majiir
<Majiir>
do I have to
<r4m0n>
not going to force you :-P
<r4m0n>
no korean spamming here either, though :-P
<Majiir>
I was hoping to quietly disappear from those conversations now that there's a filter :P
<G-Mobile>
I'm good with the first part, no guarantee on the second
<r4m0n>
I don't mind if you do the tech conversations on either, I'll be in both anyway
<SilverFox>
r3m9n, ye, as long as I still get to bug majiir with korean shit in shitshow like an autistic faggot sounds great to me
<Majiir>
SilverFox, about that
<Majiir>
Stop with the tells
<r4m0n>
lol
<SilverFox>
lol
<Majiir>
I'm serious
<Majiir>
I have mentioned it before
<Majiir>
It's quite annoying when I go to join a serious discussion in another channel and a tellbot spams them
<xShadowx>
wont work lol 1) people who have nothing to do with ksp are still here, with their mentality to harass noobs who do try to mod ksp 2) you already have the bad rep with the modders, and i dout theyd return to help the noobs who show 3) references (links etc) are split between 2 channels, nobody here even knows how ksp works anymore XD
<Majiir>
xShadowx, look how much we care:
<SilverFox>
Majiir,
<SilverFox>
~fuckcup
<FoxBot9000>
this is my give a fuck cup -> \_/ NOTICE IT IS EMPTY
<SilverFox>
also
<SilverFox>
~fuckmug
<FoxBot9000>
this my mug where I keep my fucks -> c\_/ NOTICE IT IS EMPTY
<xShadowx>
r4m0n: my point has been made :)
<SilverFox>
if you're feeling adventurous
<Majiir>
Much as you think our channel's toxic, a lot of us think you as individuals are toxic, so we'll call it even.
<kmath>
YouTube - John Carmack's keynote at Quakecon 2013 part 4
<SilverFox>
we haven't finished sorting shit out yet
<Majiir>
I think we have
<r4m0n>
mostly did? any questions?
<Rokker>
no
<SilverFox>
can we get a recap on the shit going down?
<Majiir>
SilverFox, for your purposes, you're not talking here unless it's about code
<Majiir>
Or space, but you don't care much about space
<SilverFox>
that's it?
<SilverFox>
that's rather restrictive
<Rokker>
there is already a channel for modding discussion thst is alive and well enforced, and ur being a dipshit by trying to willfully ignore that to try to maintain power. I get it. it's your channel, it's your baby, but it's time go move on
<Rokker>
please
<r4m0n>
here is for asking and answering questions about tech (any of it), and discussing tech news
<Rokker>
don't split the communities
<Rokker>
between channels
<Majiir>
Ironic coming from someone who wants us to go to a newer channel
<Rokker>
please
<r4m0n>
we aren't splitting anything
<Rokker>
you are
<r4m0n>
we aren't creating a new KSP channel
<Rokker>
there is already one that exists
<Rokker>
that has the strongest userbase
<Majiir>
Those are good arguments
<Rokker>
as far as modders
<xShadowx>
you're trying to split people who mod ksp into coming here lol
<Majiir>
Very good arguments against making a new channel
<Majiir>
xShadowx, look at how much I'm evangelizing in other channels
<Rokker>
Majiir: it's too late for that you retard
<G-Mobile>
not that either xShadowx
<Majiir>
Are you two done? Because we are
<Rokker>
the new channel exists and it's eclipsed this one as the modding channel
<Majiir>
Good thing it's just an IRC channel
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<G-Mobile>
alls anybody wants to do is make this channel fit for purpose again, and let the other stuff still happen
<G-Mobile>
solution: other stuff happens somewhere else
<r4m0n>
exactly
<r4m0n>
Rokker: you wanted this channel to clean up? you got it
<G-Mobile>
people find this channel, the have for years, and who knows how long the channel has been secret so it's not even easy to find
<r4m0n>
thanks
<r4m0n>
speaking of which
<G-Mobile>
if we clean it up we can be less +s
<SilverFox>
wtf is -s
<G-Mobile>
+s prevents the channel from showing up in /list
<G-Mobile>
we've been /hidden/ for /months or years/
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<G-Mobile>
which btw very well might have contributed to the condensed soup of terrible
<xShadowx>
r4m0n: s or not, majority of traffic is from links and word of mouth, so fairly pointless :P
<r4m0n>
yeah, I don't care
<r4m0n>
I haven't youched KSP for almost a couple years now, and that isn't changing
<r4m0n>
I'm not going around calling people here
<TheKosmonaut>
r4m0n: try not playing KSP and still moderating the forums... :/
<r4m0n>
but I'll keep the space for discussion here, and drop in whenever I feel
<Majiir>
TK, that sounds like the inverse of what you want :|
<TheKosmonaut>
Majiir: the mod drama is so watered down now
<G-Mobile>
so Majiir, say you used a service, and you could do some automation by making a webhook available to the service to interact with; how would you host the webhook on your machine/vm
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<TheKosmonaut>
“This dude stole a mod I stole years ago!”
<xShadowx>
TheKosmonaut: on that note, possible to search forums / edit all #kspmodders to #kspmodding?
<SilverFox>
kek
<G-Mobile>
I'm gonna push the nazi button: can we have an ethnic cleansing to start off this new leaf?
<Majiir>
G-Mobile, for local development or for a production system?
<G-Mobile>
Majiir: for personal use
<r4m0n>
nazis will be kicked out on a per-offense basis
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<G-Mobile>
does that count as production?
<Majiir>
It counts as production if it's running in any permanent capacity
<SilverFox>
how do you define a "nazi"?
<r4m0n>
rules are: no political discussion and no NSFW posting
<G-Mobile>
specifically I want IFTTT(.com) to send events to code on my VM
<r4m0n>
first offense is a public warning, second is permaban
<G-Mobile>
sounds production to me
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<Majiir>
You'd host a web server if you're in production, and you'd also post a web server if it's for local development but usually one much more stripped down, or a simple Node.js server or something just to log out requests
<Majiir>
Yeah, so run a simple webserver and have it do...whatever you want it to do when you receive the webhook
<G-Mobile>
booo
<TheKosmonaut>
xShadowx: no.
<xShadowx>
r4m0n: i assume words NSFW count? nazi, fag, etc trigger warnings at my job lol yay for watched irc traffic
<TheKosmonaut>
We don’t make it a habit to edit people’s posts in that manner
<G-Mobile>
xShadowx: SSL.
<r4m0n>
no soft-padded cells here, dropping a word here or there is fine
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<Majiir>
An alternate suggestion: when at work, do your job. (This is a completely serious suggestion.)
<ChanServ>
r4m0n set flags +AO on TheKosmonaut.
<xShadowx>
my job requires irc :)
* TheKosmonaut
rubs hands together
<SilverFox>
fuckin shekels
<SilverFox>
they gettin rubbed
<TheKosmonaut>
On that note, I’m gonna be busy these coming weeks. I am getting a new custom made human after a nine-month wait
* Majiir
breaks out the scotch and the sinister plots
<G-Mobile>
when at work, put everything involved with this group of people in an encrypted cell
<SilverFox>
>custom made
<SilverFox>
did you use CRISPR?
<r4m0n>
gratz on spawn
<TheKosmonaut>
SilverFox: yeah. Artisanal humans
<TheKosmonaut>
Non-GMO
<SilverFox>
noice
<G-Mobile>
Majiir: do you know of any webservers that run Mono?
<TheKosmonaut>
Organic
<G-Mobile>
also, how does the y combinator work?
<G-Mobile>
one of brady haran's channels did a video on the y combinator and it made no sense to me
<Majiir>
G-Mobile, uhhhhhhhhhhhhh I don't know about Mono, but you can run .NET Core on Linux, and ASP.NET Core as the webserver
<Majiir>
I don't think I could explain the Y combinator without looking it up
<Majiir>
That's more egg mathsy stuff
<G-Mobile>
it's a haskell thing
<G-Mobile>
invented by mr haskell
<Majiir>
It's like a Haskell theory thing
<Majiir>
There's no such thing as a Y combinator in the language itself
<Majiir>
G-Mobile, .NET Core is kind of sucky, but it'll do the job for simple stuff
<G-Mobile>
is that a specific thing? I don't know about it
<Majiir>
We evaluated it at work and decided to stay with .NET Framework, but we also have Windows servers already so there was very little to push us toward .NET Core
<Majiir>
Yeah, .NET Core is Linux-compatible .NET
<Majiir>
ish
<Majiir>
Grab VS2017 if you don't have it
<SilverFox>
iirc greys doesnt like vs?
<Majiir>
.NET Core projects are a bit more Node-like now
<SilverFox>
Greys, dont you have a hatred for vs for some reason?
<Majiir>
ah right
<Majiir>
Uhhh get VS Code then, which despite the name has nothing in common with VS
<Majiir>
It's just better Atom
<G-Mobile>
every time I use VS everything sucks and I spend five days not being able to click on buttons or whatever and give up without having been able to attempt anything
<Majiir>
So VS is genuinely the best IDE in the world -- but .NET Core does not play so nicely with VS at the moment for large-scale stuff
<Majiir>
For small-scale stuff like you're doing it probably works just as well as normal VS stuff, which is to say VS is objectively the best choice for that situation, but VS Code will work pretty well if you don't mind manually editing a few JSON files
<Majiir>
We gave up on .NET Core for our next-gen stuff when we learned that we'd lose all the advantages of VS
<G-Mobile>
.net core sounds like a bad time
<Majiir>
For enterprise stuff, it definitely is a bad deal
<Majiir>
I think there's a niche for it and it's pretty much what you're doing: small-scale stuff on Linux where you don't want to go learn a different language to do it
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<Majiir>
If I had to write a webserver on Linux, I think I'd go with Node and possibly Purescript over .NET Core, but I also already know Node
<r4m0n>
I'll go with Majiir here, Node is a good pick for this task
<G-Mobile>
I'mma get some coffee, what I want to do is have a daemon that loads DLLs that describe the hook they want to recieve, and then the daemon gets them what fits that; there's a thing called Nancy that seems like it'll do that but there's a lot of caveats, mainly that nancy isn't a daemon it's a framework, and I want to make use of app domains for live reloading of plugins and nancy shouldn't be able to do that
<Majiir>
Hrmmmmmm it sounds like what you really want is a reverse proxy
<Majiir>
like nginx
<r4m0n>
Nancy should work fine with a plugin loader
<r4m0n>
she don't want to run a proper webserver
<r4m0n>
yes yes
<G-Mobile>
I specifically want to avoid running a webserver as much as possible
<G-Mobile>
and then work called
<r4m0n>
you understand that webhooks MANDATE a web server, right?
<Majiir>
G-Mobile, I'm curious why? You cannot have webhooks without a webserver, so there must be something about "webserver" that concerns you but ...?
<G-Mobile>
I'll probably be gone like an hour
<r4m0n>
you're just going to have one inside your app
<SilverFox>
so about that eclipse eh
<SilverFox>
pretty neat stuff
<Majiir>
r4m0n, what do you do for work these days?
<Majiir>
or school or whatever it may be
<SilverFox>
Majiir, does medical stuff count as technical?
<r4m0n>
same I did the last decade, freelance SW/HW dev, mostly for promotional stuff
<Majiir>
That's a whole market I didn't know existed until recently
<r4m0n>
it's pretty much what Squad did before they didn't have to anymore XD
<Majiir>
Friend of mine's family made a killing with a business that does one-off HW/SW stuff for tech demos, prototypes, stuff that just has to look the part
<r4m0n>
yeah, it's good business
<r4m0n>
I'm trying to retire from it, got some killing crunch times
<SilverFox>
sounds kinda unstable though?
<r4m0n>
it's very variable, yeah
<r4m0n>
a month doing nothing, then 5 projects in a week
<SilverFox>
yeah
<SilverFox>
that'd freak me out
<Majiir>
If you ever want contracting work, let me know. My company finally got its act together with funding for the engineering dept.
<G-Mobile>
Majiir: webservers are hand grenade chandelers in gremlin hospitals, if I can have a server with a more specific and locked down domain like webhooks, thats many fewer explosives to worry about
<r4m0n>
no, I really want to retire and just fuck around with AI XD
<Majiir>
G-Mobile, you have a weird notion of what a webserver is, so I encourage you to forget everything you think you know a webserver is
<SilverFox>
I've had a few ideas for AI
<SilverFox>
r4m0n, did you see that otaku ai?
<SilverFox>
it's some chick in a tube that waits for you to come home
<r4m0n>
nope, got a link?
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<r4m0n>
oh, that Gate thing?
<SilverFox>
yeah
<SilverFox>
it's fuckin like, 3500$
<G-Mobile>
Link still
<r4m0n>
hardly qualifies, but yeah
<Majiir>
"something with a more specific and locked down domain like webhooks" I mean, that sounds like any basic web server -- I'm not talking web control panels here, I'm talking like Node.js or ASP.NET
<G-Mobile>
Is it like an alexa with an animu figurine?
<Majiir>
or nginx, which can only serve basic stuff like static files on its own but can intelligently route requests to other servers
<Majiir>
so you can run application servers that accomplish simple tasks like accepting a single webhook, and then nginx or similar takes care of sending different requests to different webhook servers
<Majiir>
(based on path, etc)
<G-Mobile>
Mmkay, so how would I make mono code available to ngnix
<Majiir>
I don't know of any Mono webservers, but one may exist.
<SilverFox>
"one may exist"
<SilverFox>
lol
<G-Mobile>
Lets say from scratch
<Majiir>
Well, to accept a webhook, your application needs to be a webserver -- this is just by definition. What that means is your application needs to listen on a TCP socket, and when that socket is opened, it needs to speak HTTP.
<kmath>
YouTube - The Smallest WiFi Button in the World (ESP8266, MQTT, IFTTT)
<FoxBot9000>
yt: The Smallest WiFi Button in the World (ESP8266, MQTT, IFTTT) | bitluni's lab
<Majiir>
There are frameworks (like Node.js, ASP.NET, etc etc etc) which handle all that TCP and HTTP crap for you, so you just implement a method and whenever the webhook is called, your method runs
<Majiir>
Those frameworks are usually called web servers
<Majiir>
The purpose of nginx here is to help organize all the incoming requests
<G-Mobile>
Convince me that node.js is like c#, feel free to lie
<Majiir>
Node.js has functions
<Majiir>
It's like C# but without having to deal with types
<SilverFox>
"feel free to lie"
<SilverFox>
it is exactly the same
<Majiir>
and you don't have to deal with classes either
<G-Mobile>
SilverFox: have you seen that IoT button pusher?
<SilverFox>
no
<SilverFox>
is it like that uhhhhhhhhh box
<SilverFox>
flick the switch and the box flicks it back?
<Majiir>
G-Mobile, JS has types, they're just magical
<G-Mobile>
.... Wtf does that mean
<SilverFox>
MAGICS
<SilverFox>
MAJIICS
<Majiir>
You know, I'm not being as cryptic as you'd think
<G-Mobile>
I dont think you are
<Majiir>
I'm on a big anti-magic craze lately too
<G-Mobile>
I literally dont know what magical means
<SilverFox>
;wa magic
<Majiir>
Magic is any behavior that isn't really obvious or easy to follow through the basic features of a language
<kmath>
SilverFox: magic (English word): 1->noun->any art that invokes supernatural powers, 2->noun->an illusory feat; considered magical by naive observers, 3->adjective->possessing or using or characteristic of or appr -- this crap is too long.
<Majiir>
That's not a very good definition, hmm
<G-Mobile>
So, hidden behaviors?
<Majiir>
Not quite hidden
<SilverFox>
unknown?
<Majiir>
Magic lets you circumvent the 'normal' or 'conventional' flow
<Majiir>
Magic is also anything that can't be easily analyzed
<Majiir>
So, for some examples
<Majiir>
Reflection is magic
<Majiir>
It's magic because you might have a method that, according to your code, is never called by anything. You might think it's safe to delete, since nothing ever calls it. But since reflection exists, it CAN be called, and it's called by magic.
<G-Mobile>
I feep a pony pun....
<Majiir>
Some languages have a feature where you can have a string, and there's a special operator to call the method that is named in that string. This is magic (and very similar to reflection)
<G-Mobile>
Ok so, node.js has types that you cant trust
<Majiir>
Node.js uses Javascript, and that is a fact about Javascript yes
<Majiir>
Javascript isn't statically typed
<Majiir>
Everything is just a 'var' or 'const', nothing else
<SilverFox>
so non-statically...ayyyy
<Majiir>
You might think you're getting a string as a function param, but if someone wants to, they can call your function and supply a whole user object instead
<Majiir>
and if your code doesn't check for that, it might happily run and pass that value on
<G-Mobile>
That sounds a lot like not typed
<Majiir>
Good, hold onto that feeling
<G-Mobile>
Btw, I'm in our shared colo standing around a bunch of tower servers, a bunch are dell optiplexes and gaming rigs
<G-Mobile>
People pay us for this shit
<Majiir>
My company has a rack-mount tray full of Blackberries
<Majiir>
in a datacenter
<G-Mobile>
Theres even a teal plastic mac, with a cyberpower UPS, we have a room sized UPS, and a diesel generator
<Majiir>
I have an idea, maybe you can help G-Mobile
<Majiir>
and I want it to have a bunch of batteries and a robotic arm
<SilverFox>
will it connect via wifi?
<SilverFox>
is this a roomba server?
<Majiir>
The idea is we can put this in a colo datacenter, and then the rack can unplug itself and drive around and make spooky ghost noises at the other servers and the colo staff
<G-Mobile>
Robotic arm will be a problem
<SilverFox>
>mature professionals
<G-Mobile>
Those things gave a very precarious center of gravity, they dont move fast and they have an integrated model of weight distribution so they can stay balanced
<Majiir>
Server racks, or the Kiva robots?
<G-Mobile>
Every product is kept in a weight tracked tray for inventory monitoring and pokayoke
<G-Mobile>
Robotic arms typically weigh a lot, but that dynamic mass is going to be very problematic to balance for
<G-Mobile>
Even a light one
<Majiir>
What about making the wiring easier to connect and disconnect?
<Majiir>
How does a rack in your DC usually connect to power and ethernet?
<Majiir>
for a colo, specifically
<G-Mobile>
With power sockets and ethernet cables
<G-Mobile>
For rack colo theres a socket above each rack, ethernet is run from a nearby switch to each, or further up the network for higher end links
<Majiir>
Would it be more than just those two cables to a rack?
<G-Mobile>
For towers, theres just a bunch of metal shelves with power strips
<G-Mobile>
Depends on the service
<G-Mobile>
We have fiber, different grades of ethernet, some companies want redundent links, maybe 30A power, or multiple circuits
<G-Mobile>
Different amp ratings use different sockets
<SilverFox>
thats a neat design thing
<SilverFox>
to make sure you dont plug in the wrong amp plugs
<G-Mobile>
Most stuff uses standard grounded wall sockets, above that its all twist lock
<G-Mobile>
I'm surprized 60A doesnt have a twistlock, must be too big, probably uses a latch
<SilverFox>
are these wires standard or are they overengineered?
<SilverFox>
like a 60A line could easily handle 80A
<G-Mobile>
Nope
<G-Mobile>
Donno
<G-Mobile>
I'm not an electrician, as darklight will tell you
<G-Mobile>
Hyratel1: do you know?
<SilverFox>
Why is TheKosmonaut re-opped?
<SilverFox>
like that was random
<G-Mobile>
Cuz we're not going to talk about lolis here
<SilverFox>
I mean, yeah but
<G-Mobile>
No, thats the whole of it
<SilverFox>
putin power solely to prevent lolis that werent going to happen?
<G-Mobile>
Nope
<SilverFox>
pretty easy life
<Hyratel1>
G-Mobile, what was the question
<G-Mobile>
His behavior is no longer a problem
<G-Mobile>
Hyratel1: can a 14-60A socket handle 80A, as a margin
<Hyratel1>
no
<SilverFox>
are they overengineered
<SilverFox>
was the question
<G-Mobile>
65A?
<SilverFox>
like, underspec'd
<Hyratel1>
many thermal breakers use an exponential delay throw
<G-Mobile>
Just the socket though
<Hyratel1>
so if you run a 60A breaker at exactly 60A it'll go indefinitely
<SilverFox>
the wires
<G-Mobile>
Fuck the wires, they're all over the place
<Hyratel1>
but it might trip after 2 minutes at 65, 2 minute at 70 and 30s at 75
<SilverFox>
the wires was my question, suck a dickeridoo
<Hyratel1>
surge/startup/inrush, or sustained
<G-Mobile>
You aint got one, you're a donut
<Hyratel1>
motors have a high startup inrush as they get things going
<SilverFox>
I didnt specify mine, if I had one, I specified one in general
<G-Mobile>
Hyratel1: the question is regarding the failure limits of the socket/wires, not the breaker
<Majiir>
Okay, specifications about whose dick is getting suck does not count as technical discussion
<Hyratel1>
the breaker is there to keep the wires and socket from failing
<SilverFox>
Hyratel1, Im asking if the wires themselves can handle well over 60A
<G-Mobile>
Right but we want to know when they would
<Majiir>
Isn't the main failure mode of wires overheating?
<G-Mobile>
Yes
<Hyratel1>
the failure point of the wires and socket is irrelevant EXCEPT that it is in excess of the breaker
<Majiir>
Like dumping 80A over 60A lines won't destroy them instantly
<SilverFox>
unless it was really underspec'd
<SilverFox>
and it was an 80A
<Majiir>
They'll melt eventually though, so the breaker just needs to cut off power before that happens, not the instant current goes over 60A
<SilverFox>
which is my question
<Majiir>
SilverFox, the spec is there to handle a variety of situations
<SilverFox>
right
<SilverFox>
but how underspec'd is it
<Majiir>
If the wire is very cold, it'll handle more current
<Majiir>
It's probably not "underspec'd"
<Majiir>
It has specifications, and those are there to protect users and manufacturers both
<Hyratel1>
SilverFox, the failure mode of a wire is heat up, increased resistance, insulation might melt, or it heat-corrodes through and sparks
<SilverFox>
right
<Hyratel1>
that last is notorious in aluminum wires
<G-Mobile>
Back at the shop we had an L14-30R fail because one of the blades was loose to the wire, and it started arcing, the UV aged the plastic housing, the heat melted everything, and eventually that blade was just floating in a cavety
<Hyratel1>
the longer they're run hot, the deeper the corrosion eats
<TheKosmonaut>
SilverFox: it’s so I can hold power over you
<SilverFox>
kek
<TheKosmonaut>
And oppress the shit out of everyone with my Socialist-Authoritarian self
<xShadowx>
i hold power over him in other chans :D
<SilverFox>
sick
<TheKosmonaut>
xShadowx: me?
<xShadowx>
no silverfox
<TheKosmonaut>
xShadowx: i can ban you from the forums
<TheKosmonaut>
:P
<xShadowx>
i have a forum account?
<SilverFox>
when was the last time you were on the forums?
<xShadowx>
ban it anyways plz
<TheKosmonaut>
xShadowx: I thought you did
<TheKosmonaut>
SilverFox: me or xShadowx
<TheKosmonaut>
I was there like 30s ago
<SilverFox>
I have shadow muted
<SilverFox>
so you
<Majiir>
I think all my forum posts have messed up markup from the botched forum migration
<SilverFox>
speaking of botched migrations
<TheKosmonaut>
Majiir: a bunch of mine did. Except anything with a sort of diacritic was completely fucked.
<SilverFox>
Majiir, I migrated my pc over to SSD boot
<TheKosmonaut>
And I’m too lazy to go back and fix it
<SilverFox>
set up all my start menu icons
<TheKosmonaut>
SilverFox: wow. Welcome to 2013
<SilverFox>
unplugged my external backup drive
<SilverFox>
half got broken
<Majiir>
Welcome to 2013 if you were waiting for SSDs to become mainstream
<SilverFox>
naw
<SilverFox>
was debating the cost of using my backup SSD and having to go through the process
<SilverFox>
it took 3 days
<SilverFox>
my hdd was a 1TB, and my SSD is 512GB
<SilverFox>
so I apparently couldnt just resize and be done
<SilverFox>
its not guaranteed that the .ca section has the same stocj
<Majiir>
I record raw video onto my SSD, haven't checked used space once since installing it
<SilverFox>
and the pricing can be greatly different
<Majiir>
Apparently I'm at less than half still
<SilverFox>
totes dude, ima drop 900$
<SilverFox>
im saving up for a 500$ miniITX build
<G-Mobile>
SilverFox: look at the link
<SilverFox>
I did
<SilverFox>
it's a pcie ssd
<G-Mobile>
890$
<SilverFox>
yeah
<SilverFox>
that's 900$
<SilverFox>
but
<G-Mobile>
And you take offense to it maybe not being available
<SilverFox>
;wa 890USD to CAD
<kmath>
SilverFox: convert $890 (US dollars) to Canadian dollars: C$1120.20 (Canadian dollars)
<SilverFox>
1100$
<SilverFox>
fora 1TB SSD
<SilverFox>
that takes up pcie lanes?
<Majiir>
You'll end up using PCI-E lanes no matter what you plug into, if you need that much speed
<Majiir>
That's how all the fast IO works these days
<SilverFox>
yeah
<Majiir>
This uses them directly because, well, it's too fast to use SATA
<SilverFox>
m.2 is what my mobo will be using in the future if I buy shit
<SilverFox>
but my miniITX mobo only has 1 pcie lane
<SilverFox>
and that's for the GPU
<Majiir>
You mean slot
<SilverFox>
yeah
<SilverFox>
idk how many lanes the ryzen 1200 has
<G-Mobile>
60ish
<G-Mobile>
But more devices use PCI lanes every week
<SilverFox>
24
<SilverFox>
which means after my 16x gpu, I'll have 8 lanes
<SilverFox>
how many does m.2 use?
<G-Mobile>
Used to be the sata controller, now its the ssd itself; used to be usb ethernet, now its pci wifi, used to be onboard sound, now its something else
<kmath>
YouTube - Vortex Cannon! - Bang Goes the Theory Preview - BBC One
<FoxBot9000>
yt: Vortex Cannon! - Bang Goes the Theory Preview - BBC One | BBC
<Majiir>
No, not pfft
<Majiir>
Get to your shitposting channel
<inktop>
uhhh fuel air mixture is tricky but i just do a five count with aquanet with that thing and cap it up.
<SilverFox>
that vortex cannon looks kinda weak
<inktop>
with oxy acetylene if u dont care about it blowing up in your face it doesnt matter let it run and cap it off and hope u dont die
<SilverFox>
it just huffed and puffed and blew a straw house down
<SilverFox>
needs more firepower
<Rokker>
ah yes, such a high quality modding channel
<SilverFox>
Rokker, stfu
<SilverFox>
get yer drunk ass outta here
<Rokker>
Majiir: gg
<SilverFox>
B&
<Majiir>
I'm sorry, did I miss the memo where we're competing
<G-Mobile>
I think his design was fairly unoptimized
<G-Mobile>
But a vortex cannon is just a spud gun that shoots a semicoherent blast of air, so you should be able to make an attachment for a spud gun that lets you dry fire and emit a vortex instead
<inktop>
yeah im sure my gun is not optimized other than just making sure the volume ratios for the combustion chamber and barrel were about right.
<inktop>
getting a uniform mass of projectile is a lost cause anyways
<SilverFox>
my boottimes currently are like, ~20s, so if I had a PCIe SSD, do yall think that'd be improved on, or would it just not make a difference?
<SilverFox>
it sounds like I've reached a cpu bottleneck more than anything
<G-Mobile>
Pci ssds are not inherently better than sata ssds, but they permit better protocols, such as nvme
<SilverFox>
or perhaps, m.2 ssd
<SilverFox>
which boasts better speeds
<Majiir>
M.2 and PCIe are equivalent from that POV
<G-Mobile>
A lot of pci ssds dont implement any better anything
<G-Mobile>
M.2 is a socket that offers pci lanes and sata lanes
<SilverFox>
Majiir, so do you think it'd give me that much of a boost?
<Majiir>
If you're at 20 second boot times, you have something else going on
<Majiir>
like you're not using UEFI fast boot or something
<SilverFox>
idk what my mobo does
<SilverFox>
it's a shitty hp one
<G-Mobile>
A lot of pci ssds just implement thier own sata interface, so the improvement you see is they have a dedicated sata bus
<SilverFox>
doesnt even let me overclock
<G-Mobile>
NVMe is not sata, its better
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<G-Mobile>
But AMD doesnt support NVMe booting
<SilverFox>
"darkvader666" sick name dude
<G-Mobile>
Btw SilverFox: specify what you mean by boot times
<SilverFox>
from 0, until login, into when my desktop is ready to use
<G-Mobile>
i assume you mean fron pushing the power button to being able to use the desktop
<G-Mobile>
K
<Majiir>
o.O AMD can't NVMe boot?
<SilverFox>
apparently not
<Majiir>
What is the point of AMD then
<SilverFox>
I think linus did a thing on it
<SilverFox>
budget
<SilverFox>
perf
<SilverFox>
dats it
<DarkVader666>
What classes handle generating kerbals? and where can i change the mass for a kerbal when it generates them?
<SilverFox>
oh boy a kerbal question
<Majiir>
...I made a mod that changes kerbal sizes once? Don't think I have it though
<SilverFox>
I made a mod once for breeding kerbals
<DarkVader666>
What mods do you run?
<G-Mobile>
DarkVader666: kerbals are a part, you need to go up the loading chain, find the prepart object that gets instantiated, and change the mass value
<Majiir>
None these days. I did Kethane long ago
<SilverFox>
if it lets you
<SilverFox>
also did ModStats, lets not forget htat
<DarkVader666>
G-Mobile: The 'part' you speak of are not the kerbals themselves, Merely a few things copied over from kerbals (mass / gender). I am looking for how to change the generation.
<SilverFox>
dont think you can
<G-Mobile>
DarkVader666: you need to find the Kerbal part in PartLoader.Instance.parts, its one if the first and it probably doesnt have a name, then you can modify the mass there
<SilverFox>
but you'd probably be better helped in #kspmodding
<SilverFox>
there's more people there who still work with ksp
<DarkVader666>
This isn't a kerbal modders channel?
<G-Mobile>
SilverFox: literally shut your fingers in your face
<DarkVader666>
You guys don't mod?
<G-Mobile>
Were mostly retired
<SilverFox>
yeah, mostly retired
<G-Mobile>
We Can Help.
* G-Mobile
goes to do work
<SilverFox>
you guys can try, but there's people in another channel that can better help, so why not direct them there
<G-Mobile>
Because we just decided to make this change
<SilverFox>
that's great and all, but we dont have the people to back it
<Majiir>
Fox, remember that discussion about how you just have a really low IQ
<SilverFox>
just get yer shittalking outta the way then
<DarkVader666>
What a toxic channel. Thanks for the waste of time.
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<SilverFox>
sweet jesus
<G-Mobile>
I literally gave him the reference
<Majiir>
Staged question is staged
<SilverFox>
kek
<G-Mobile>
?
<SilverFox>
Majiir, you think it was rokker?
<Rokker>
nigga
<Rokker>
im too drunk for that shit
<Majiir>
Don't know, don't care
<Rokker>
SilverFox: im too busy reading up on my korean history
<Majiir>
Korean history: bastards do bastard things, admirals do admiral things, eventually Japan invades then Japan dies and Korea go split
<TheKosmonaut>
You assholes can at least direct him to modding.
<SilverFox>
as I did
<SilverFox>
then got shat on for
<Majiir>
He was both helped and directed to modding
<TheKosmonaut>
Well ten
<TheKosmonaut>
Then
<TheKosmonaut>
You should make him listen
<SilverFox>
whom?
<Majiir>
TK we've been over this authoritarianism thing
<TheKosmonaut>
If he refused to listen then execute
<Rokker>
Majiir: go jerk off to softcore korean porn
<Rokker>
the real op is here
<SilverFox>
wut
<Majiir>
I think you've had enough for today
<SilverFox>
get out rokker, yer drunk
<SilverFox>
B&
<Rokker>
ok ill stop bitching, lets talk about loli and pedophilia
<Majiir>
*shrug* You were warned enough times
<SilverFox>
kek
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<SilverFox>
TheKosmonaut, how far along is the baby?
<SilverFox>
rather, fetus
<SilverFox>
how many weeks?
<TheKosmonaut>
SilverFox: uh. Being born tomorrow?
<TheKosmonaut>
So pretty far along
<SilverFox>
I mean, ask yer wife
<TheKosmonaut>
SilverFox: 38wk if that’s what you’re asking
<SilverFox>
okay cool
<SilverFox>
that was what I was asking, exactly
<TheKosmonaut>
Err. Maybe 39 as of today
<Majiir>
I'm going to bed, Fox pls don't talk here unless supervised by a competent adult
<SilverFox>
40wk is full term
<TheKosmonaut>
Majiir: >competent
<TheKosmonaut>
>adult
<TheKosmonaut>
We are doomed
<Majiir>
No, this is all part of the SilentFox plan
<SilverFox>
naw
<SilverFox>
you want me gone you'll have to permaban me
<SilverFox>
TheKosmonaut, so her hips are narrow/small, was it like that the first time?
Majiir is now known as Snoozee
<TheKosmonaut>
SilverFox: yeah
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<G-Mobile>
ok, where were we
<G-Mobile>
oh yea, fuck that guy, I helped.
<G-Mobile>
theko is preggorz?
<SilverFox>
yeah
<G-Mobile>
TheKosmonaut: I hope your new child is a huge anime nerd
<SilverFox>
when the fuck is that eclipse?
<G-Mobile>
also your kid better know why singletons aren't good, at least as well as I do, by time they're ten
<G-Mobile>
SilverFox: monday, starts here around 1pm
<SilverFox>
so 1pm, alright
<G-Mobile>
you're a bit east of me so maybe 1:15~1:30
<SilverFox>
yeah
<SilverFox>
but I'll be ready by 1ish
<SilverFox>
I'll see if I can stay up
<G-Mobile>
also I'm going to have a much better eclipse than you, yay south
<SilverFox>
yeah that's how she goes
<G-Mobile>
detroit is just north of the 80% mark, toronto is just north of the 70% mark
<G-Mobile>
so in their example here, the class creates an instance of itself, that it then references so if you access the class it gets forwarded to the instance, that way no matter what there's one of it
<G-Mobile>
majiir should write a "Downfalls" section for this article, it's definitely a very pro-singleton and anti-criticism
<G-Mobile>
there's exactly one sentence recognizing that there are issues, and it's posed as "a small number of people hold this opinion. Moving on~"
<TheKosmonaut>
SilverFox: what the fuck is a “TOCO” number?
<G-Mobile>
mmkay so according to NASA's map, the 70% eclipse line is right around toronto, but according to The Great American Eclipse, toronto is closer to 76%
<G-Mobile>
america, even overrepresenting the eclipse
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<G-Mobile>
I saw an image somewhere of an eclipse party scheduled on facebook, and somebody asked if they could reschedule for the next weekend
<G-Mobile>
to which someone replied "did this bitch just ask the sun to wait?"
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<SilverFox>
yeah
<G-Mobile>
bigger isn't always at all valuable
<SilverFox>
bigger what?
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<G-Mobile>
bigger room
<G-Mobile>
"last room was bigger"
<G-Mobile>
so I'm setting up my old phone for when I ship my new phone for RMA on monday; god it's awful
<G-Mobile>
the screen is shattered, and has so much friction, the UI is soooooo slow
<G-Mobile>
and it's just been factory reset, it should be about as fast as it can be right now
<SilverFox>
why rma
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<TheKosmonaut>
SilverFox: oh, the room was bigger because it had a private shower
<TheKosmonaut>
This room doesn’t, there’s a private shower that you can schedule though in the hall
<G-Mobile>
I set the phone on my dashboard, got attacked by a wasp, and when I returned victorious, picked up the phone to find that there were four major gouges and countless minor scratches in the gorillaglass 5 screen
<G-Mobile>
they're going to fix it for free but I have to ship the phone to texas for three weeks
<G-Mobile>
advantage apple: they just fix shit
<G-Mobile>
go to a store, come back later that day
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<G-Mobile>
also, core feature of the new phone; I do not have to charge it during a 12 hour shift, with the screen on more than 50% of the time
<G-Mobile>
and my new phone I have to charge at least daily, with the screen on 0% of the time
<G-Mobile>
er
<G-Mobile>
old phone
<G-Mobile>
like, I was gonna do this yesterday, but forgot to bring the phone, it was dead when I woke up
<G-Mobile>
did you know Ikea makes a bike? and it's kinda nice?
<G-Mobile>
it's named slannesh
<G-Mobile>
SLADDA*
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<G-Mobile>
it's a 26/28", so good for bigger people, hardtail, so not good for rough terrain/bad cities, but it's simple and overbuilt without being heavy
<G-Mobile>
it's a belt drive, which is pretty nice
<G-Mobile>
it's got an in-hub sealed CVT rear gear shift
<G-Mobile>
and you can get it with front/rear baskets and a trailer
<G-Mobile>
also the rear rack frame is built out of tubing, where most racks of this style are built out of flatbar, and the flatbar ones are super duper crap, like if somebody sat on the rack it would crumple into obscurity
<G-Mobile>
one downfall, front disk brake, rear pedalbrake, so shit stopping power and great at flips
<G-Mobile>
oh wow; the official rated load for the rear rack is 55lbs (25kg); I've seen much more rigid and overbuild racks that were only willing to assert 16lbs because the engineers were panzies who wouldn't stand behind their product
<G-Mobile>
my home built rack has successfully supported 140lbs and I can push that but steering gets difficult, so that'd still be a downgrade for me
<G-Mobile>
back to webhooks, if I use node.js, I've found a thing on npm that does webhooks so it's even more click and go; and I don't do any other webservers, do I have a use for nginx?
<G-Mobile>
also, my brain pronounces that as nnn~ginks, I know it's supposed to be engine x, but that's not how my brain phoneticises anything
<G-Mobile>
looking at node-webhooks example
<G-Mobile>
why the fuck can you define a function inside an argument
<G-Mobile>
this is madness
<G-Mobile>
kick me into the sparta hole, it's comfortable in there, I understand the limits of my world
<lpg>
wait I just got home
<lpg>
what are you using webhooks for
<G-Mobile>
I want to accept events from IFTTT and then have much more complicated shenanigans occur
<lpg>
so use express
<lpg>
or koa?
<G-Mobile>
such as, make a task in todoist with a given label, IFTTT sees that the task has been created with the label, and sends a webhook request to my server, my server reaches out to todoist and modifiest that task to have a location based reminder
<G-Mobile>
who?
<G-Mobile>
node-webhooks looks good, I've never done JS before
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<lpg>
node-webhooks looks pretty bad
<G-Mobile>
does it?
<lpg>
express is the de-facto way to write an HTTP server in node.js
<lpg>
koa is pretty cool too but almost certainly more frustrating
<G-Mobile>
please inform me so as I may be able to discern this myself
<lpg>
if I was you, I would use express and node-fetch for this
<lpg>
you use express to listen to requests, there's gigabytes of documentation on it
<lpg>
node-fetch is a good HTTP request interface ported to node.js
<G-Mobile>
lpg, inform me as to how node-webhooks is bad.
<lpg>
bad support
<lpg>
834 downloads in the last month
<lpg>
express has had 300,000 downloads in the last day
<G-Mobile>
I'm not sure how that's relevant
<lpg>
you're a lot more likely to have something with better documentation and fewer bugs with a supported library
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<G-Mobile>
sure, but how does that support the assertion that node-webhooks /is bad/
<lpg>
okay, I can go over the actual surface API things too
<G-Mobile>
yes please
<lpg>
there's no reason why there should be a JSON 'database' involved, the author obviously misunderstands HTTP response codes
<G-Mobile>
are those the same thing or two things
<lpg>
two things
<lpg>
the example doesn't actually work how the author intends I don't believe; he uses two promises with chaining but then seems to expect those to resolve synchronously
<G-Mobile>
how are they misunderstanding HTTP response codes
<lpg>
yes author, all 200 (and 300) codes are successes, why would you ever pass them
<lpg>
The system exposes an API with docs that aren't correctly formatted
<G-Mobile>
mmkay, so this indicates that their code is poorly considered and not cognizant of the domain
<lpg>
much more succinct
<lpg>
also the author has "Full Stack Developer" as the first thing on his GitHub
<G-Mobile>
you're going too fast for me
<lpg>
?
<G-Mobile>
so the api docs, you're saying he's made an api, and the docs suck? so using the api will be largely on me to discover and vet the operation separate from the spec
<G-Mobile>
kinda like KSP
<lpg>
I imagine there will be lots of bugs; the interface is tightly coupled to performing actual HTTP requests it appears?
<lpg>
I think that would impair testing
<G-Mobile>
other than the example being inadequate/faulty/wrongly concluded, is there a formatting paradigm of the api spec that I'm not aware of? the page does at least seem to be validly formated
<lpg>
I see "POST /api/webhook/add/[WebHookShortname] Add a new URL for the selected webHook. Requires JSON params:"
<G-Mobile>
I'm not good at documents, took me 15 years to get a good grasp at the use and intention of a resume
<lpg>
but what are JSON params:?
<G-Mobile>
ah yes
<lpg>
The other indication of lack of knowledge in the domain is use of verbs in the URL for actions that HTTP defines verbs for
<lpg>
no need to use POST /delete/:id when you can just use DELETE /:id
<G-Mobile>
and get /../../get
<G-Mobile>
mmkay
<lpg>
one last indication, his dependency set strikes me as odd
<lpg>
bluebird is a strange dependency in 2017 to me?
<lpg>
positive things, he has test coverage figured out
<G-Mobile>
I hadn't actually looked at his github; he's been very consistent for the last six months so that's interesting; weird that he starts with a declaration of profesionalism, then a declaration of hobbiest, and ends with a declaration of insuler pedant
<lpg>
I'm glad that so many people are getting into software, but that package probably isn't ready to be used by the world
<lpg>
this repo scared me off of using TACLS again like I used to
<G-Mobile>
they were nice
<lpg>
there are git merge markers in the readme
<lpg>
but meh, I'm mean and critical
<G-Mobile>
so, if I use express, and I'm not doing anything other than making a bunch of arbitrary webhook functions, do you think I have any use for nginx
<lpg>
nah
<lpg>
You can consider nginx as your proxy if you need to parallelize over a bunch of cores; you can do that in Node.js too though if you don't want the configuration weight
<lpg>
I would definitely use it if you're networking over a bunch of machines though, good load balancer
<G-Mobile>
I'm not concerned with weight, my VM is typically about 0.06% load
<G-Mobile>
so then is express kind of like apache, I put files in the right place and it works with them as needed?
<lpg>
You have to opt into that behavior, but yeah, it can
<lpg>
Apache's default of "send this file as-is" is really dangerous
<G-Mobile>
apache is not great in a lot of ways
<G-Mobile>
and is largely why I don't want a webserver
<G-Mobile>
I want a much smaller domain than apache covers, so I don't have to secure those borders
<G-Mobile>
but that's express's paradigm, I make script files, I make express aware of the files in a way, and it invokes them when appropriate
<lpg>
even better than that
<G-Mobile>
do you have any introspection on express about what reveals that it's code is likely good; or ways that it's not good I should look out for?
<lpg>
you just write a regular program, and it starts a server
<lpg>
Don't use the Express generator, it has too much garbage
<lpg>
just `npm install express --save` in a new project and start working through that page
<G-Mobile>
I don't have npm to my knowledge, so I'll have to.... something something
<G-Mobile>
centos comes with yum, do I need npm? I can probably install it with yum so that's fine but less is generally optimal
<lpg>
Don't install Node.js from your package manager; it'll be horrendously out of date
<G-Mobile>
damnit
<lpg>
Add the Node.js 8.0 upstream repo (PPA for Debian-based systems, dunno about RedHat stuff)
<lpg>
then install *that* package, which will come wth npm 5.0
<G-Mobile>
the thing I really hate about linux, is that everything* ever** works**** as asterisk***
<G-Mobile>
never*
<lpg>
put things in single quotes
<G-Mobile>
?
<lpg>
I don't know if I parsed your statement correctly
<G-Mobile>
mmkay so, I install centos, great, centos runs firewalld, firewalld is disabled by default, I don't know what networkmanager is but everybody hates it so I switch to firewalld and set it up as centos suggests, that won't run, unless I disable it, then it'll run, because..... so I switch to iptables, which I have to /install/ because centos, and then I follow linode's recommended iptables configuration and that kills everything.
<G-Mobile>
at every stage what should have worked didn't
<G-Mobile>
that's my experience with linux for the last two decades
<lpg>
your life would be infinitely easier using Ubuntu Server
<G-Mobile>
fuck ubuntu
<lpg>
I haven't had any really stupid problems like that
<G-Mobile>
fuck deeeebian
<lpg>
okay, Debian
<G-Mobile>
up the butu
<lpg>
okay... uh
<G-Mobile>
debian was the first decade
<lpg>
I don't know what to tell you, everyone just publishes PPAs for Ubuntu for their crap
<G-Mobile>
everything doesn't work as intended on debian because debian is fucking special
<lpg>
debian unstable is okay
<G-Mobile>
that's insanity.
<G-Mobile>
things may have changed in the last decade but I'm not going back; when I ran debian every single piece of software I wanted to use had two sets of instructions: how to make it work, and how to gut debian until it can work at all in this different and much less secure way because debian's security makes it impossible to do anything at all
<G-Mobile>
and that's back when I used to want a webserver
<G-Mobile>
just getting apache running on debian was an arcane process, and then if you wanted php on it, hoooo boy, you better be a wizard harry, cuz they went to baddragon for these fuck sticks
<lpg>
I can tell you from my Ubuntu client connected to an Ubuntu IRC bouncer that it's pretty okay nowadays
<lpg>
PHP and Apache sucking are the Apache Foundation and PHP's problems
<lpg>
that is a fuck shit stack
<G-Mobile>
yea but it wasn't just apache and php, it was everything; and then I ran opensuse for a while, and it was so much better, and then I didn't need a server for a few years so when I came back I used centos cuz majiir fangirlism and it's pretty good
<G-Mobile>
I think the real problem is people make stuff, and they don't make any consideration in development or documentation for whether their truths are in the local domain, and don't generalize
<G-Mobile>
like there's been so many times when I'm reading the docs and it's like "to not get your dick bitten off by an aligator, run fizzbitch --noalligators" and I run fizzbitch --noalligators, and it says "command not found"
<G-Mobile>
so then three weeks and an an appendectimy later it turns out you needed to run su fizzbitch-config --setmode=aligators=false || fizzbitch --restart
<G-Mobile>
and I will never, ever, bever, know why.
<lpg>
yeah, I hate software like that with a burning passion
<lpg>
I believe in a development process where you tear down and rebuild your product from scratch every 5 years
<lpg>
it's radical and probably not practical but maintaining most legacy codebases is literally hell
<G-Mobile>
or the more common "just edit this file: <file>", I open the file "No you need to edit this one now: <file>" so I open that one, do the thing, run the program, and literally nothing is different, because in fact I don't need that second one
<G-Mobile>
or the even more commmon: use this file, file doesn't exist
<lpg>
sounds like configuring apache to me
<G-Mobile>
it's fricken everything
<lpg>
node has significantly less garbage
<lpg>
like, you don't configure anything
<lpg>
you can just `npm install --production` and then `npm start` and your server will work
<SilverFox>
could they change on a per-server basis, or is it in the irc protocol?
<lpg>
protocol thing, doubt they'd be different
<SilverFox>
alright
<G-Mobile>
IRC protocol establishes that modes exist, but not what they mean, their meaning is established by service daemons the irc daemon is configured to respect
<G-Mobile>
esper uses.... chrysilid... or something, which uses fairly unusual and lean mode assignments
<G-Mobile>
so fun issue I have; couple weeks ago I went through all my accounts and enabled 2FA; but now since I'm sending the phone off, I have to go through and disable/switch all of them
<G-Mobile>
which has given rise to the worst idea ever
<G-Mobile>
cloud based 2FA
<lpg>
but...
<lpg>
2FA is "something you know" and "something you have"
<lpg>
you don't have a cloud
<G-Mobile>
even if I did, in these terms you can never have a cloud
<G-Mobile>
I could switch all of those services to use my old phone, but I'm going to switch back in about three weeks, so it makes more sense to just turn it all off
<SilverFox>
G-Mobile, couldnt you use the old phone for its computational power?
<SilverFox>
i mean, it's something
<SilverFox>
and phone processors are pretty efficient
<SilverFox>
so mine bitcoin or some shit
<SilverFox>
maybe some day you'll make a dollar
<G-Mobile>
nope
<G-Mobile>
there's way too many defenses
<G-Mobile>
and it'd cost 30$ to get s-off
<SilverFox>
way too many defenses??
<SilverFox>
wut you mean
<G-Mobile>
android is super locked down
<SilverFox>
I did it on my phone, without rooting
<G-Mobile>
android is super inconsistent
<SilverFox>
naw
<SilverFox>
it was rather easy to do
<G-Mobile>
I'd have to get s-off to write to the system mount
<SilverFox>
naw, it's just an app you download
<G-Mobile>
yep
<G-Mobile>
that charges 30$
<SilverFox>
naw
<G-Mobile>
yep
<SilverFox>
naw
<SilverFox>
boinc
<G-Mobile>
my phone isn't your phone
<SilverFox>
so?
<G-Mobile>
my phone isn't locked down in the same way as yours
<SilverFox>
so?
<G-Mobile>
so our phones are different
<SilverFox>
okay and?
<G-Mobile>
in order to replace the OS I would have to pay 30$
<SilverFox>
that's great and all
<SilverFox>
but who said you have to do that
<SilverFox>
I sure didnt
<G-Mobile>
in order for the phone to be useful for anything I would need to do that
<SilverFox>
get your phone doing things for science
<SilverFox>
mine was computing particle physics
<SilverFox>
was neat
<G-Mobile>
why would I do that
<SilverFox>
make money
<SilverFox>
help science
<G-Mobile>
for one, I have to use this phone for the next three weeks
<SilverFox>
who said I was saying do it now
<G-Mobile>
you
<SilverFox>
quote me on it
<G-Mobile>
<silverfox> go download boinc
<SilverFox>
yeah
<SilverFox>
download it
<SilverFox>
also, when did I say that
<G-Mobile>
get out of here with your shitshow
<SilverFox>
you get out of here with your shitshow
<SilverFox>
misquoting me
<G-Mobile>
my shitshow is already out of here
<SilverFox>
i never had one to begin with
<SilverFox>
I wonder how hard it would be to make a TAS for a game
<G-Mobile>
a totally awesome sheboigan?
<SilverFox>
Tool Assisted Speedrun
<SilverFox>
basically you program a thing to play a game as fast as possible
<Supernovy>
SilverFox: imma let you finish, but family feud glitchfest was the best TAS of all time
<SilverFox>
can you link it?
<G-Mobile>
what kind of tool are you gonna make
<SilverFox>
I tried to make a TAS to beat undyne in undertale because she pissed me off so much cause I'm bad at undertale
<G-Mobile>
an autoplayer? a game genie? an aimbot?
<SilverFox>
G-Mobile, as I know, there are like, two types: frame by frame script which is injected into the game engine, or a seperate program that causes keypresses
<SilverFox>
I went with the latter because I dont know how to get into the undertale game engine
<kmath>
YouTube - SNES Family Feud "Glitchfest" TAS by Heisanevilgenius
<SilverFox>
so it was basically trial and error timing
<SilverFox>
so do an input, wait x time, do input, repeat
<SilverFox>
Supernovy, "I bathed keanu reaves"
<SilverFox>
"beaver and duck expert"
<SilverFox>
this shit is crazy
<SilverFox>
"bullshit boston lawyer" is my fav so far
<SilverFox>
I like how the audience is just like "Good answer!"
<Supernovy>
"Name a piece of clothing that leaves a mark when you take it off" "Elephant turd poncho"
<SilverFox>
that's accurate
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<Supernovy>
also the Hall family's reaction
<SilverFox>
i didnt notice
<SilverFox>
but i noticed one dude looked like black hitler
<Supernovy>
"a sign no-one seems to obey" "Ogres Allowed *Sparingly*"
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* VITAS
has a contraption using an arduino, a pc and a gamecontrolelr to play grand tourismo 6 for him
<SilverFox>
neat
<VITAS>
but for games that can be run on a pc you can simply use macros
<SilverFox>
i think what I made was technically a macro
<VITAS>
i always wanted to extend it with some image recongnition using capturing and vlcs basic libs
<SilverFox>
yeah I never know how to go about image recognition
<SilverFox>
i once made a bot for runescape
<SilverFox>
it went by pixel colour
<VITAS>
im still looking for some soft that performes well as macro recorder within directx games and is able to no only send input but also track colors of pixels etc.
<VITAS>
i know theres some for 2d games
<SilverFox>
that sounds like a good chunk to ask for
<VITAS>
yes im lazy and i like automating things
<SilverFox>
dont we all
<VITAS>
yes we should automate upsetting and yelling at greys :P