r4m0n changed the topic of #kspmodders to: Technical discussion ONLY (KSP related or not), for random shit-talking, join #shitshow (seriously)
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<Orum>
anyone know of some good mission planning software for a real-life solar system?
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<Rokker>
Orum: wrong channel
<Rokker>
Orum: ask in KSPModding, more active modders
<Rokker>
Orum: you can modify KSPTOT for yourself
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<Rokker>
and that works alright
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<Orum>
well, I don't want an actual mod
<SilverFox>
oh, you want some like, nasa level shit?
<Orum>
yeah
<Orum>
I'm curious how close KSP mimics it with a fuckton of realism mods
<Orum>
but need something from IRL to compare KSP to
<SilverFox>
well, first what you can do to get that approximation is talk with mod devs of the mods, they should know how off from real their mods are
<Orum>
I don't want to bother egg with that, and I'm not even sure I'd understand his answer :\
<xShadowx>
Orum: #RO chan strives for realism ;p engines use accual real world values
<Orum>
I'll have to look at what RO includes again
<xShadowx>
a lot ;p
<Orum>
I was mostly think kopernicus, RSS, FAR, real fuels....and a few more thing I'm sure I'm forgetting
<Orum>
but still, I want to compare an actual KSP to a mission plan from some nasa-level shit
<xShadowx>
thats the basic required stuff
<xShadowx>
again #RO, whatever info you want better ksp realism and IRL, nice chan for finding it :)
<xShadowx>
s/better/between
<Qboid>
xShadowx meant to say: again #RO, whatever info you want between ksp realism and IRL, nice chan for finding it :)
<SilverFox>
I know FAR isn't *fully* there for realism, but it's damn close
<Orum>
alright, I'll ask there, but again, I'm not looking for a KSP mod, just *external* mission planning software
<Orum>
something that would give like, transfer windows, burn dates/times/durations, orbital parameters, etc...
<Orum>
porkchop plots
<xShadowx>
uh was an exe based app / 3rd party tool for ksp
<xShadowx>
let ou plan multi planet windows
<Orum>
yeah, but that uses the KSP universe, not real-life's
<xShadowx>
yaya ;p
<Orum>
hah: "This program was not released by NASA through COSMIC. The source code was obtained from an OCR scan of NASA Technical Notes D-5985 and D-5104."
<Orum>
people print source code?
<xShadowx>
Orum: if theres something to do, someone has done it
<Orum>
Surely
<xShadowx>
my state has these white mushrooms with blood blisters on em
<xShadowx>
supposedly they have a bitter taste
<xShadowx>
which means sometime someone ate one
<Orum>
TIL xShadowx is on shrooms
<xShadowx>
nah
<xShadowx>
besides that kind wont do shit for you ;p
<Orum>
well you are well versed in the shrooms then
<Orum>
the point was to compare KSP to some benchmark
<Rokker>
unless ur using Principia it will be too accurate vs KSP
<Orum>
ah, yep, I thought that was part of RO
<Rokker>
Orum: do you want to use it to plan missions for RO
<Orum>
that's the idea
<Rokker>
do you have principia
<G-Mobile>
you might need to use principia to have anything not KSP tuned give usesable results
<Orum>
yes
<Rokker>
G-Mobile: SHUT THE FUCK UP, IF YOU DIDNT HAVE ME IGNORED YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE THIS
<Rokker>
god damn
<Rokker>
im already saying exactly what shes fucking saying
<Rokker>
Orum: if you have principia, use GMAT, if you dont have it, use TOT
<TheKosmonaut>
Jesus
<TheKosmonaut>
It is like a broken record
<Orum>
well the idea is to test the limits of what's possible in KSP in terms of realism... I realize that the aerodynamic sim is probably the weakest point, but wanted to see if at leas tthe space sim could be accurate enough to use a real mission planner
* Orum
DLs GMAT
<TheKosmonaut>
If you’re not launching real probes to simulate your KSP missions, you’re doing it wrong
<G-Mobile>
in that case you can just compare princi[ia orbits to stock orbits
<G-Mobile>
principia
<Orum>
I'm a few billion short of launching real probes
<G-Mobile>
is there an orbit tracer mod?
<Orum>
STK sounds like the actual tool they use, but GMAT is probably just as good for my purposes
<G-Mobile>
make a save file with a ship in a specific orbit, then trace out what that vessel does over the next five years
<G-Mobile>
then do the same again with principia
<Orum>
G-Mobile: pretty sure principia can do that
<Rokker>
Orum: STK only has a license and interplanetary gets complex, iirc
<G-Mobile>
but can principia do that without principia
<Rokker>
only has a free trial license
<Orum>
yeah, I wasn't going to bother, just curious what they actually used
<Rokker>
Orum: its been a while since i used STK
<Rokker>
didnt use it for anything more than setting up a basic constellation
<Orum>
I bet it's a cake walk to set up a Draim config in it
<egg|zzz|egg>
you rang?
<Orum>
nothing, just putting your mod to the test :P
<Rokker>
egg|zzz|egg: ur mod is dum
<Rokker>
shoo
<Rokker>
egg|zzz|egg: <3
<egg|zzz|egg>
Orum: you have seen my egglipse screenshot right
<Orum>
nope
<G-Mobile>
egg, can principia trace orbits without modifying physics?
<egg|zzz|egg>
wat
<Rokker>
egg|zzz|egg: its best to just ignore her
<Orum>
I imagine that's terribly uninteresting
<Orum>
in most cases, anyway
<G-Mobile>
yea probably
<G-Mobile>
ok wait, KSP can do that
<G-Mobile>
because KSP doesn't have unstable orbits
<Rokker>
egg|zzz|egg: shes asking for the orbit tracing functionality of principia without the physics of principia
<egg|zzz|egg>
with principia you can compare stock vs. principia
<G-Mobile>
great
<egg|zzz|egg>
but principia will be the truth nevertheless
<egg|zzz|egg>
if you have principia, things will evolve according to principia, but you have "enable patched conics" as a setting for the purposes of mocking stock
<Orum>
hah
<G-Mobile>
so there, if you just want to see how wrong KSP is, that'll do
<egg|zzz|egg>
Orum: that egglipse screenshot https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/162200-wip122-and-13-principia%E2%80%94version-%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%B1%D1%8B%D1%88%D1%91%D0%B2-released-2017-08-21%E2%80%94n-body-and-extended-body-gravitation-axial-tilt/&page=32#comment-3152928
<G-Mobile>
egg, what's it look like from the ground?
<Orum>
epic! Too bad it was fucking cloudy here on monday
<Rokker>
Orum: i hitched a ride down to tennessee
<Rokker>
it was amazing
<Orum>
any time anything remotely interesting happens in space, it will be cloudy wherever I am
<G-Mobile>
we had clear skies but 80% isn't impressive without a telescope
<Orum>
transit of venus? cloudy...
<Rokker>
Orum: you shoulda traveled
<Orum>
I know :(
<Rokker>
Orum: 2024 hype
<Orum>
hehe
<Orum>
I think I might go south then
<Orum>
best totality is in IL, right?
<G-Mobile>
we'll have totality in the detroit area
<egg|zzz|egg>
to reply to the size concerns, 1. that shadow is by blackrack's mod, I just put the moon where it belongs; 2. it is actually big, do not forget the penumbra: https://youtu.be/JCsfTlpk9ak?t=103
<kmath>
YouTube - What Does A Solar Eclipse Look like From Space?
<FoxBot9000>
yt: What Does A Solar Eclipse Look like From Space? | Scott Manley
<G-Mobile>
what do the wobbly circles at the ends of the path, in red, mean?
<Rokker>
then drive hour north
<Orum>
OH is pretty cool actually, except for where I was when I was working there
<G-Mobile>
mmkay so from nasa's google map tool, detroit will haave 99.39% coverage in 2024, a tiny section of michigan will have totality, but lake erie is going to be paved with boats
<Orum>
yeah, but who wants to go to detroit?
<TheKosmonaut>
Orum: Nobody
<Rokker>
Orum: she lives there
<Orum>
exactly
<Orum>
ah
<G-Mobile>
unfortunately it'll be early spring, so the water will be lethally cold and people will die
<egg|zzz|egg>
shadow size looks completely consistent with EPIC footage, just this is taking from fairly close, so a smaller chunk of the surface is visible
<Rokker>
Orum: ohio
<Rokker>
egg|zzz|egg: maybe thats what im seeing
<Rokker>
but it certainly feels larger
<Rokker>
or at least darker
<Orum>
why go to ohio when I can go to IN?
<Orum>
I'm in WI, OH is further away
<Rokker>
Orum: because you can watch it from the neil armstrong museum
<G-Mobile>
niagra is in the totality, and even somewhat close to the center, the entire city of buffalo is just off center and will get nearly 4 minutes of totality
<Rokker>
and shout about how we conquered you you shitty fucking moon
<Orum>
lol
<Orum>
I would love to see the actual museum
<Rokker>
its small but nice
<Orum>
you guys have some great flight museums
<Rokker>
Orum: wanna know why
<Orum>
we only have one cool one in oshkosh
<Orum>
because the wright bros?
<Rokker>
because we fucking invented flight
<G-Mobile>
SilverFox: toronto is going to get 99.9% obscuration in 2024
<Orum>
yeah, you and NC keep fighting about it on your license plates
<SilverFox>
sick
<Rokker>
G-Mobile: we can look for ourselves
<Rokker>
Orum: yeah but they are wrong
<Orum>
lol
<TheKosmonaut>
Rokker: Go to the other channel
<G-Mobile>
you'd have to travel over near niagra to get into the totality on land, or up near Belleville
<Rokker>
Orum: when was the last time you went to the air force museum
<Rokker>
TheKosmonaut: why
<TheKosmonaut>
This isn't technical discussion
<Rokker>
G-Mobile: you are wrong
<Orum>
which one?
<Rokker>
SilverFox: the southern edge of toronto is in totality
<Orum>
which other channel, #shitshow?
<Rokker>
Orum: there is only one thats ever really referred to as the air force museum
<TheKosmonaut>
yes
<Rokker>
the National Museum of the USAF
<Rokker>
TheKosmonaut: whats not technical about this
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<Rokker>
TheKosmonaut: please clarify
<TheKosmonaut>
Rokker: "and shout about how we conquered you you shitty fucking moon"
<TheKosmonaut>
because we fucking invented flight
<TheKosmonaut>
when was the last time you went to the air force museum
<Rokker>
tech·ni·cal
<Rokker>
ˈteknək(ə)l/Submit
<Rokker>
adjective
<Rokker>
1.
<Rokker>
relating to a particular subject, art, or craft, or its techniques.
<TheKosmonaut>
Rokker: Don't get autistic on me
<TheKosmonaut>
Go to the other channel
<Rokker>
is this not related to astronomy and aerospacce
<TheKosmonaut>
I could talk about locales too, if you're talking about a particular plane then that's fine. But this is way to tangential in my opinion.
<G-Mobile>
not vetted: dude built a railgun imgur.com/gallery/GrAiE
<G-Mobile>
it's basically a black box, so I can enirely imagine an FX wizard faking this
<G-Mobile>
also the relationship between the gun firing at the car, and the appearance of the hole, seems to be fairly sharply out of sync
<G-Mobile>
the use of aluminum conductors seems problematic
<G-Mobile>
from the youtube video the damage to the door does look like it was caused by a large unrefined projectile, but it could have been shot from something out of frame
<G-Mobile>
note, that car is a saturn; and saturns have all plastic body panels, so the punched hole is just a shatter hole with no plastic deformation, this stands up
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<G-Mobile>
typically the nonmagnetism of stainless steel has a book full of asterisks attached, does magnetic intensity appear in that book?
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<SilverFox>
if I have a thing at volume 100, and then I turn it to 50, is that half as loud?
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<G-Mobile>
too many asterisks
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<Hyratel1>
SilverFox, on the linear or logarithmic scale?
<G-Mobile>
if it's built correctly and you're talking apparent volume, hopefully
<Hyratel1>
^
<G-Mobile>
if it's built wrong then the volume power will vary linearly, and decibels are log
<G-Mobile>
decibels largely corespond to apparent volume, but your perception may deviate
<G-Mobile>
SilverFox: is this sufficient or do you have more context we can be specific about?
<SilverFox>
volume mixer on windows
<SilverFox>
if a thing goes from 100->50 is it at half the volume or naw?
<G-Mobile>
ok, quick test, does the difference between 50 and 100 go from bearable to destructive?
<G-Mobile>
if your speaker survives, it must be log
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<SilverFox>
so a GTX 960 is now like, 200$, which is great because 960 is minimum spec for VR, so the price for VR systems is coming down, and the HTC vive has its price cut permanently, so that's coming down too. what a time to be alive
<Truga>
do not buy a 960 for $200
<Truga>
:p
<Truga>
in fact, do not buy gpus at all, prices are through the roof right now because buttcoin miners are buying them all out
<Truga>
except gtx 1080/1080ti those apparently aren't as good
<SilverFox>
200$ refurb is pretty nice
<SilverFox>
you could have a VR ready pc for about 600-700$
<Truga>
no seriously a couple months ago you could get a 1060 for $200
<Truga>
new, not refurb
<Truga>
just wait until the new buttcoin bubble pops, and buy a 1070 for $250 when a coiner unloads it on ebay
<Truga>
:P
<SilverFox>
you cant get a 1060 for 200
<SilverFox>
they're 400$
<SilverFox>
3GB ones dont count
<SilverFox>
they suck
<Truga>
yes, exactly
<Truga>
a few months ago they were $200
<Truga>
and now they're 400
<Truga>
so unless you absolutely must, probably don't buy a gpu until prices are normal again
<Truga>
the only exceptions seem to be 1080/1080ti because gddr5x is bad for mining or something
<Truga>
960 is a bit better due to newer features, but yeah
<Truga>
there abouts
<Truga>
I'd still recommend 970/1060 or better for VR though, personally
<G-Mobile>
Basically its the worst performing of the next step up vs the beat performing of the step down
<Truga>
though definitely not at current prices lol
<G-Mobile>
btw770ti specifically
<G-Mobile>
770 ti beat out the 780 so they cancelled that pretty quick
<Truga>
haha
<G-Mobile>
I'm 60% sure there was no 790
<Truga>
probably not
<Truga>
I remember a 690, but not 790
<Truga>
SLI/xfire is kinda dying anyway so
<G-Mobile>
anyway yea, the 970 is a lot better than either the 770ti or 960, and the 2 years ago price for a reference 770 ti was 170$, so 200$ for that performance is crap
<Truga>
silver is talking in CAD though
<Truga>
still a bad time to buy a gpu, but $200 cad isn't that bad I guess
<Truga>
that $160 US
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<SilverFox>
get a ryzen 1200 for like, 150$
<Truga>
yeah
<Truga>
ryzen really trashed the market
<Truga>
it's great
<Truga>
I'm gonna buy a threadripper next year probably, just beause I can
<SilverFox>
ryzen mobo for like 80$
<SilverFox>
so that's 200 + 150 + 80 + 40 for power supply + 50$ for a case
<SilverFox>
350 + 80 + 90
<SilverFox>
350 + 170 = 520$
<SilverFox>
~c 520 * 1.13
<FoxBot9000>
SilverFox, 587.5999999999999
<SilverFox>
600$
<SilverFox>
550$ for an oculus
<G-Mobile>
;wa 200CAD to real dollars
<kmath>
G-Mobile: 200 distance->from->Wexford County Airport, to->Soto del Real, Madrid, Spain×$1 (US dollar): $1.286 million km (kilometer US dollars)
<G-Mobile>
GJ, thx
<G-Mobile>
I'm legit happy that it did anything with that
<G-Mobile>
;wa 200CAD to USD
<kmath>
G-Mobile: convert C$200 (Canadian dollars) to US dollars: $159.93 (US dollars)
<G-Mobile>
that's still pretty high compared to two yearold pricing on an even older card
<Truga>
welcome to cryptocoin
<G-Mobile>
currently the 770 ti is extra expensive because it's uncoommon; most of the time anyway
<G-Mobile>
newegg doesn't even list it, but they have lots of coolers
<SilverFox>
G-Mobile, you're not taking into account canada tax
<G-Mobile>
btw, adafruit has this neat project kit, it's an 8 pin IC package shaped PCB, about 5cmx10cm, and the circuit on it is an opamp such as would be inside an 8 pin IC package
<G-Mobile>
the faux pins are lasercut and bent aluminum by the looks of it, but they're railed together; you interface with the circuit via clamp studs; it'd be neat of each pin was operational but this is still a cool kit
<G-Mobile>
looks like this brand also makes a 555 chip
<SilverFox>
555 is a logical timer chip right?
<G-Mobile>
it's a timer, I'm uninformed beyond that
<SilverFox>
sweet, I was right
<SilverFox>
81350 is a standard lithium cell, right?
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<SilverFox>
awww, I was off, it's 18650
<G-Mobile>
So my cpu is the tenth best performing CPU on the 1155 socket
<G-Mobile>
only beaten by three i7 skus
<G-Mobile>
But were I to upgrade, I'd only get 10.2% more performance
<G-Mobile>
If I got an LGA1151 motherboard, slightly newer, my processor would rank after the 22nd best
<G-Mobile>
and then going to the best, the i7-7700K would give me 27% more powah
<G-Mobile>
Its damn hard to justify upgrades these days
<G-Mobile>
my new phone is 27 times better in benchmarks than my old phone
<G-Mobile>
Intel is planning a new socket for the end of this year, maybe I'll see something worthy
<G-Mobile>
or AMD will add thunderbolt to something
<G-Mobile>
SilverFox: what's the most powerful ryzen consumer grade processor currently purchasable
<G-Mobile>
so no threadripper or edge shinanigans
<SilverFox>
the 1800x
<G-Mobile>
that would be 47% better in benchmarks, seriously?
<G-Mobile>
and about 50% higher TDW
<G-Mobile>
I really really want to insert a wrong units error here and pretend this is comparing clock speeds and thread counts; but this is benchmarks
<G-Mobile>
this is actual measured performance; worse, I know this benchmark uses mostly artificial loads to judge performance, and artificial loads massively overrepresent improvements
<SilverFox>
yeah ryzen is really great
<G-Mobile>
SilverFox: I have an E3-1230, of the second generation
<G-Mobile>
which is from 2012
<SilverFox>
??????
<G-Mobile>
and ryzen is not even 50% better
<Truga>
it's 50% cheaper tho
<Truga>
:D
<G-Mobile>
I paid like 240$, and I currently have it
<G-Mobile>
in order for any amount of money to be worthwhile, the benefit must be worthy of the cost
<Truga>
let's see
<Truga>
4 cores 8 threads 3.7ghz turbo 69W
<Truga>
yeah, no
<G-Mobile>
just like it's really hard to justify anything less than a 1070, if the best reasonable choice is not even 50% better, why spend all the upgrade costs associated with moving to a new socket
<Truga>
for $240 you get a 6core ryzen
<G-Mobile>
is it slower than the 7 1800x?
<Truga>
max memory size 32gb lol
<SilverFox>
for the 1800x?
<Truga>
what is this 2014
<Truga>
no, for the xeon
<SilverFox>
she said it was 2012 so yeah
<G-Mobile>
that's not particularly significant
<SilverFox>
and 64GB is kinda excessive
<Truga>
it's very significant I'm sorry
<G-Mobile>
I'm not going to max out the ram
<Truga>
I dunno what you need your threads for, but I'm more ram than thread bottlenecked 99% of the time
<SilverFox>
if you arent the type to saturate that, it doesnt particularly matter
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<G-Mobile>
I'd never even put 32GB in the thing
<Truga>
I bought 256 gigs of ram last month, it owns :3
<Truga>
at work, anyway
<SilverFox>
that's excessive
<G-Mobile>
I have 16 gigs because 8 gigs was paging too often
<Truga>
at home I have "only" 32 gigs
<G-Mobile>
I never really go over 10
<Truga>
and 32 is just about right
<G-Mobile>
I'll be back to bicker later
<Truga>
what's excessive? 256 gigs?
<SilverFox>
yes
<Truga>
depends on your workload
<Truga>
like I said, I'm bottlenecked by ram, not threads
<SilverFox>
of course
<Truga>
I want more
<SilverFox>
how do you get more than 256GB of ram on a board
<Truga>
uhh
<Truga>
you plug em in?
<SilverFox>
remember when that one person said that 64megs of ram is all we need
<Truga>
lemme find you one
<SilverFox>
does it have 8 slots or some shit?
<Truga>
don't all decent boards have 8 slots these days?
<Truga>
I mean, you probably don't need it right? but it's nice to have :D
<Truga>
that's how RAM works.
<SilverFox>
fun fact, for the current sim to crunch through, single-threaded, kerbin with 1cm^2 accuracy, would take a tenth of the age of the universe
<Truga>
ouch
<SilverFox>
it's a lot of cells dude
<Truga>
oh I know
<Truga>
that's why you also buy a THREADRIPPER
<Truga>
so you rip and tear those threads :V
<SilverFox>
I mean, I can update the planet, entirely, within like, 20 seconds with my shit ass cpu
<Truga>
actually
<Truga>
I guess you'd run that sim through a GPU, really
<SilverFox>
you can
<Truga>
get those teraflops going
<SilverFox>
I just havent figured out how
<SilverFox>
or an easy way to do it, because i'm not good at this shit
<G-Mobile>
Mmkay so I would probably be fine with 12gb, whats your next irrelevant complaint
<SilverFox>
dont start this aggressiveness
<SilverFox>
no need for it here
<Truga>
anyway yeah, more ram is cool and good, even windows knows what to do with ram now
<Truga>
it was a bit wonky before 8.1 or so
<Truga>
it'd constantly page out shit it doesn't need to etc, but now it's great
<Truga>
have everything running in ram and everything you might run in ram
<Truga>
click on thing and it opens? it's almost like running lunix!
<SilverFox>
what kind of things cant you do with an unregistered copy of windows?
<Truga>
uh
<SilverFox>
when I upgrade my PC I apparently wont have a legit copy anymore
<Truga>
I don't know actually
<SilverFox>
I'm just hoping it isnt anything crucial
<G-Mobile>
The problem I face is that ignoring specs, the badass new processor performs significantly better, but not by a large margin, certainly not the kind of margin you'd expect for five years
<SilverFox>
there's only so far you can go nowdays
<SilverFox>
I think we're reaching a plateau
<G-Mobile>
this is compounded by that changing brands alone necessitates a new motherboard
<SilverFox>
we're nearing the hard part of going down transistor sizes
<G-Mobile>
that might be but also I think it's not
<Truga>
so would changing an intel cpu, they haven't had compatible sockets for like 10 years now :p
<G-Mobile>
actually the newest processor for this socket is two years old
<Truga>
yes, but does the motherboard support it?
<Truga>
chances are slim
<Truga>
:v
<G-Mobile>
probably
<G-Mobile>
might have to do some shinanigans
<G-Mobile>
SilverFox: I suspect this issue has arisen because of inadequate competition, not physical constraints. Making the transistor size smaller is but one factor, the other is improving chip design and deciding to make more powerful chips
<G-Mobile>
linus has complained numerous times that intel should have been making consumer grade 8 physical core i5s four years ago
<G-Mobile>
without AMD to threaten them, intel didn't really do anything in CPU performance
<Truga>
yeah, pretty much
<G-Mobile>
what you'll see as by far the largest advncement of this time is improved integrated GPUs, that are now able to stand up in certain markets
<Truga>
i'm actually hyped for gaming on laptops in a year or 5
<Truga>
an apu with several gigs of onboard ram would be pretty rad
<SilverFox>
they're starting to put discreet full blown GPUs in laptops now so this is interesting indeed
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<Truga>
uh
<Truga>
they've been doing that for a long time and while it was nice, it really wasn't all that good for gaming
<Truga>
the main issue with modern laptops is the heat
<Truga>
they're making them so thin, there's no space for cooling
<Truga>
and even when they were still fat, it gets super uncomfortable due to heat on your lap
<Truga>
but like, I can run KSP on my chomebook and the intel gpu is kinda shit
<SilverFox>
ksp doesnt need that good of a GPU
<Truga>
but with the amount of power savings the gpu architectures in the recent years have made
<SilverFox>
it's a lot of CPU
<Truga>
ehh, I do have to run everything on low to play comfortably
<Truga>
so it's not all cpu :p
<SilverFox>
I could run it on my GTX730 just fine
<Truga>
yeah but that's a real gpu, not an intel gpu :D
<Truga>
the main problem is memory bandwidth really
<Truga>
intel igpus are super memory starved as soon as you go past 720p
<Truga>
bandwidth*
<Truga>
well, all igpus really
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<Greys>
they've started to be able to put desktop SKU GPUs and run them at 90%+ capacity for more than five minutes without anything melting
<Greys>
it only costs you your left five legs and the heart of a small child
<Truga>
yeah
<Truga>
but APUs can run significantly more efficiently for similar workloads these days, so having a bunch of HBM on package to provide the bandwidth needed for going beyond 720p would be real nice
<Truga>
double bonus, you can use the hbm as cache when not using it for gpu workloads
<Truga>
8gb l4 cache? yes please.
<Greys>
for all we know AMD's next series of full fat laptop APUs will have desktop grade graphics platforms
<Greys>
that said, threadripper can't melt steel beams, but it can melt a lot
<Greys>
1920X is 180W
<Greys>
imagine the cooling challege of an 180W CPU and a 300W GPU in a single package
<Greys>
you'd need to have watercooling, period; and you'd probably need a dedicated 2 fan radiator for the CPU
<Greys>
that said, the single sample this benchmark has for 1920x has it at almost three times the performance of my current CPU
<Greys>
3x is a lot better than 0.5x
<Greys>
that said the 1920 has shite performance value
<Greys>
it's hella spensive
<Greys>
wow
<Truga>
1920X is 180W at 4ghz, but at 2ghz it's like 40W iirc
<SilverFox>
the 1920x has something like, 8 cores right?
<Greys>
the highest performance value CPU on record is the core2 duo T5850
<Truga>
16 cores
<Greys>
12
<Truga>
oh 12
<SilverFox>
jesus christ
<SilverFox>
that's why the power usage is so high
<Truga>
well yeah
<SilverFox>
and the difference between clocks and shit
<SilverFox>
that's a drawback of high threadcount cpus
<Truga>
nah
<Truga>
that's a drawback of highly clocked cpus
<Greys>
the T5850 has half the performance of the very first (cheapest) i3 processor
<Greys>
and costs 0004.99$
<Truga>
I have a bunch of ancient AMD opterons still in some of my boxes
<Truga>
they're 8 cores and run at 2ghz and are <100W
<Truga>
and this is like
<Truga>
8 years old hw
<Truga>
I think zen chips at 2ghz are less than 10W per core
<Truga>
which is pretty nice
<Greys>
I'm very happy with the thermal performance of my 1230; 65W total; which can readily be kept low by a cheap aftermarket air cooler
<Greys>
currently my main reason to desire watercooling is that I could put the radiator in the window and pump the heat directly out of my life
<Greys>
which you can't do with AIOs because of short tubes
<Greys>
and AIOs are half the cost or better of custom loop
<Truga>
turbo 3.2ghz, and still only 180W
<Truga>
on a 32 core cpu
<Greys>
unfortunately my needs are impacted more strongly by clock speed
<Truga>
yeah if you need high clocks that's not as optimal obviously
<Greys>
PlanetSide2 will occupy all of my 8 threads, but everything suffers when they're slower
<Greys>
there was a time when PS2 was actually negatively impacted by hyperthreading, because 4 threads with dedicated cores perform slightly worse per core than 8 threads on 4 cores; normally it's incredibly minor
<Greys>
they've fixed that, and now having all 8 threads is better
<Greys>
dropping from 3.4~3.6GHz to 2.2~3.2GHz would not add up
<Greys>
also 3x the heat
<Greys>
also, epyc is being positioned as a server class processor, so the motherboards are probably going to be of a sort that's less suitable, especially by cost
<Truga>
oh sure
<Truga>
for high end pc you have threadrippers :p
<Greys>
I'm sure you'll love all the ram slots
<Truga>
I will
<Greys>
I wonder if AMD will be allowed to impliment optane
<Truga>
ehh
<Truga>
isn't that basically high perf ssd?
<Truga>
they have enough pcie lanes to do that
<Greys>
at least with thunderbolt, intel has made that opensource, license free
<Greys>
yesbut
<Greys>
optane is a very very fast SSD that plugs into a specific slot that's wired in differently and specifically utilized as CPU cache
<Truga>
oh
<Truga>
AMD is using HBM for that
<Truga>
:P
<Greys>
oh, cool, whats that
<Truga>
it's ram that's packaged straight on your cpu/gpu
<Greys>
to confirm, it lets you have gigabytes of high level cache yea?
<Truga>
and I don't mean like intel 64gb edram but 8gb+
<Truga>
yeah
<Truga>
err
<Truga>
intel 64mb edram*
<Greys>
I think optane is looking to be 32GB
<Truga>
well, zen chips still aren't public because big compute customers have it bought up for another year or so but
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<Truga>
basically, you get a CPU package, a GPU package, and a bunch of gigabytes of RAM in a single package
<Greys>
I wonder if it'd be for the best for intel and AMD to merge these specs, at least so far as that the physical parts are intercompatible
<Greys>
oh right, on chip
<Truga>
yeah
<Greys>
but then if you wanted more you'd have to buy a new chip
<Truga>
which is great for latency
<Truga>
well, yeah
<Greys>
and AMD would have to make that chip available
<Greys>
I feel like as long as we don't get a sockets war, upgradability is going to be a valuable feature in the short term
<Truga>
ehh I upgrade so rarely that it's a complete non-issue for me
<Truga>
like, every 5 years I'd have to throw out everything anyway :P
<Greys>
intel has the advantage that their megacache could later support more than 32GB; or there could be faster SKUs, and with their system you would only need to purchase the new hotness, instead of the house it lives in
<Truga>
or you can just buy a new amd chip and sell the old one, since AMD doesn't change cpu sockets like underwear :D
<Truga>
AM4 is likely going to live for at least 5 years
<Greys>
also intel would potentially be in a better position if we do see a sockets war, because the optane module isn't linked to the socket, so that might carry over
<Greys>
the last 5 years hopefully won't inform the future
<Greys>
during that five years AMD sucked baaaalls, and intel sat down
<Truga>
right now intel was kinda caught with its pants down
<Greys>
super down
<Greys>
off you might say
<Truga>
:D
<Greys>
in the other room
<Truga>
haha
<Greys>
being washed
<Truga>
yeah
<Truga>
they have nothing to counter zen right now
<Truga>
on the desktop it's not as obvious, but as you go into workstations/server sector
<Truga>
it's a huge issue
<Greys>
if we're lucky, which we look to be, the next two years will have more innovation than the last eight
<Truga>
"hmm, will I get this 16 core $1000 cpu or that intel 8 core $4000 cpu hmmmm"
<Greys>
"and the 8 core 4k$ cpu is the one we've already got"
<Greys>
"from five years ago"
<Truga>
yeah, probably
<Truga>
I bought an old sandy bridge 8core for $250 recently to replace a died box
<Truga>
it was either that or a new thing for like $2000
<Truga>
cause zen wasn't out yet, lol
<Truga>
next year it's probably all getting replaced with some 16 core 2ghz epycs tho
<Greys>
as I see it, if intel stands up, and both sides can compete for more than this and the next generation, it doesn't seem implausible that they're going to innovate themselves into situations that can't use their current sockets
<Greys>
like, one issue we're looking at is these new GPUs take a lot of power, and everybody is switching to watercooling; which frequently leaves the on motherboard voltage regulators critically undercooled
<Truga>
well AMD really doesn't have the capital to do any miracles in the short term
<Greys>
so it may be necessary from a consumer protection standpoint to make a new socket specifically to prevent some super high power CPU from going into underrated boards
<Truga>
there's gonna be a zen+ in like late 2018 that irons out the bugs with current generation, and then it's slow incremental upgrades for like 5 years at least probably
<Truga>
not that that's bad, it appears zen scales super well and is getting super good yields
<Truga>
now if only they can do the same with GPUs
<Truga>
vega seems nice but that power draw lol
<Greys>
that won't work, intel has the capital to overtake them within 5; maybe they can loiter a bit for 3, but I bet we're going to see sideways improvements
<Truga>
intel can't really do *too* much unless they invent magic and go to 2nm designs or whatnot
<Truga>
or go back to their nice practices of illegal shady dealings with OEMs
<Truga>
:D
<Greys>
high thread counts and improved architecture is one thing, but look to the market for inspiration; intel has halfassed hardware streaming encoders for a couple years, that could be a big deal for a year
<Truga>
you mean like video encoders?
<Truga>
unfortunately, x264 still produces by far the best results
<Truga>
hardware doesn't do as well :p
<Greys>
right but for streamers hardware is better because it doesn't load your CPU and interfere with gameplay
<Truga>
unless you throw huge bandwidth at it in which case why not just record raw :p
<Truga>
ah but you see
<Truga>
I'd rather just have a 16 core cpu and encode on 12 cores and play on 4
<Truga>
:p
<Greys>
sure
<Greys>
but you're smart
<Truga>
I currently have a haswell i7 and having 4 cores encoding and relying on hyperthreading to have a playable experience and it's not always the best :D
<Greys>
most people who would buy one CPU over another because it had a fancy feature to make their streaming experience better; don't stream
<Truga>
true :D
<Greys>
then, what if AMD spent a year making their integrated soundcard the best fucking soundcard on the market, even better than discrete, and external ADCs/DACs
<Greys>
and they give it an XLR input
<Greys>
with phantom power
<Truga>
they just have to sell an USB dongle with their mobos tbh
<Truga>
the biggest problem with modern sound is the interference from high powered equipment
<Truga>
if you DAC outside the box, you fix that
<Greys>
no I'm talking audiophile grade
<Truga>
oh nah that market isn't large enough to cater to in volume I think
<Greys>
right, but posers
<Truga>
lol
<Greys>
posers like me, who buy low-end mics and accessories with no plan for how to use them
<Greys>
I'd be considerate of a brand having a particularly great soundcard, even though I probably wouldn't use it
<Greys>
yanno what would be dumb/great
<Greys>
make a 2 part CPU, where the motherboard has CPU sockets on both sides, they're lined up, and you have double heatsinks
<Greys>
AMD has that linked complex thing, they could have some of the core pairs in each half, and they talk across the socket; just need to make the thinnest socket you can
<Truga>
well there's already multisocket motherboards
<Greys>
yea, but those CPUs don't really interact much
<Truga>
but NUMA has historically been kinda shit in those situations because many apps/OSes don't deal with it too wel
<Truga>
l
<Greys>
AMD has a word for their basic core package, that all of these CPUs are assembled out of like lego bricks, and each package has more than one core in it
<Greys>
each block has 8 cores, they can put together a somewhat arbitrary configuration of blocks
<Truga>
yeah, that's a module
<Greys>
I feel like it was a fratbro word
<Truga>
each module is 4 cores, they share 8m l3
<Truga>
2 of these modules is on of the 8core ryzens you can buy on the cheap :p
<Truga>
one*
<Greys>
that's not a thing
<Truga>
sure it is
<Greys>
now, one of the epycs only has 2 modules, but then it has 2 dummy modules to occupy space, so they wouldn't need to redesign the package and would get better thermal performance
<Greys>
I mean the "cheap" part
<Truga>
ehh, relatively
<Greys>
according to this one website a the word is Zepplin
<Greys>
8 cores => 1 zepplin
<Truga>
lol
<Greys>
4 zepplins per epyc package
<Greys>
then the lowest tier epyc has 2 dummy zepplins -- this is stupid