UmbralRaptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Fuchs. We currently target 1.5.1, 1.6.1, 1.7.x, 1.8.1, and 1.9.1. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
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<iSHELLra1top> caw!
<discord-> C​onventia. — Any recommendations on which transfer window planner is the most accurate for principia?
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<discord-> G​hostly. — not a principia user but general transfer windows should be the same
<discord-> G​hostly. — i guess you want accurate days and delta-v though
<discord-> D​amien. — Twp is close enough but assumes that all bodies are in the same plane
<discord-> D​amien. — So pack some extra fuel for correction burns
<discord-> C​onventia. — I tried TWP but then I arrived at the time and I couldn't get an encounter close enough. I looked at MJ and it seemed to think the encounter was 145 days in the future.
<discord-> C​onventia. — For a Mars window
<discord-> D​amien. — Not sure about fixing that as I don't use MJ
<discord-> D​amien. — The general way is getting a rough estimate from twp or ksptot and then manually planning the transfer around the date it gives you
<discord-> D​amien. — There's no 100% perfect system unfortunately
<discord-> C​onventia. — My first two Venus windows and the first Mars window went fine with TWP. It's just this one that seems illusive.
<discord-> D​amien. — Maybe earth and mars are too far out of plane in that window
<discord-> D​amien. — The only time you can really launch into plane is when earth is at the earth-mars an/dn
<discord-> D​amien. — Everything outside that is a less efficient transfer
<discord-> D​amien. — And twp doesn't understand that
<discord-> D​amien. — The only time you can really launch into plane with mars is when earth is at the earth-mars an/dn (edited)
<discord-> C​onventia. — Can I switch plotting frames on the launchpad?
<discord-> D​amien. — An RL tool for launch windows would be the best bet but I've not found any useful
<discord-> D​amien. — Yes you can
<discord-> D​amien. — An RL tool for launch windows would be the best bet but I've not found any useful ones (edited)
<discord-> D​amien. — Switching to mcsa allows you to see how far off plane you are. The navball midline will be the plane of mars around the sun
<discord-> D​amien. — If you can launch and roll to he aligned with that line you can launch into plane
<discord-> C​onventia. — What's this telling me?
<discord-> D​amien. — That you aren't launching from a point on mars' orbital plane
<discord-> C​onventia. — (from the launchpad, granted, it's a different rocket)
<discord-> D​amien. — If you timewarp and get closer, once you touch the line, that's the launch date you want
<discord-> D​amien. — That trick works with any body
<discord-> D​amien. — The moon etc
<discord-> C​onventia. — The gray line, right?
<discord-> D​amien. — Yes
<discord-> C​onventia. — So, this isn't a good window and I should wait? That's comforting, somewhat. 😛
<discord-> D​amien. — Timewarp until you touch it and make a note of that date
<discord-> D​amien. — Then revert
<discord-> D​amien. — That will be the date that you can launch into and transfer in the plane of mars
<discord-> D​amien. — It may not be the only time but it's the most efficient
<discord-> C​onventia. — This is just a few hours later
<discord-> D​amien. — Ok cool
<discord-> D​amien. — It's been a while since I went interplanetary so I may be have forgot something but I use that trick for moon transfers and launch to rendezvous a lot
<discord-> D​amien. — It's been a while since I went interplanetary so I may have forgot something but I use that trick for moon transfers and launch to rendezvous a lot (edited)
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — If you launch from the grey line, thats a launch window?
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — I thought you would reach the grey line multiple times in a day perhaps
<discord-> D​amien. — Yeah that's why I said I may have forgot something. I didn't expect that
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — I use mechjeb for my windows
<discord-> D​amien. — It's definitely the way to be in the same plane
<discord-> D​amien. — A lot of this stuff is from memory because I don't play much lately
<discord-> D​amien. — @Conventia If you target mars, how far is earth from mars an/dn?
<discord-> C​onventia. — KER says that time to Rel AN is 170 days. AN is 356
<discord-> D​amien. — Ok that navball trick may not work for interplanetary then. It's probably getting you into the same inclination but not necessarily coplanar
<discord-> C​onventia. — Well, AN would have been ~10 days ago?
<discord-> C​onventia. — Transfer angle is 44.19
<discord-> D​amien. — That's probably close enough to correct for but the an/dn pass isn't necessarily in a launch window and vis versa
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<discord-> C​onventia. — Do you know the difference between phase angle and transfer angle?
<discord-> D​amien. — Not off the top of my head
<discord-> D​amien. — Phase is probably the angle between the bodies, transfer is your ejection and transfer path
<discord-> D​amien. — Don't quote me on it though
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<Blu3wolf> so Ive discovered that my system is not stable, some 76 days in. Can I apply a patch to correct this now, or is this save unrecoverable?
<Blu3wolf> well, Im gonna give it a shot and find out.
<Blu3wolf> https://pastebin.com/3RuUaiTP - still comes up after adding a patch and restarting. I guess I can disable researchbodies and investigate.
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<discord-> s​cimas. — Something went really wrong, this from a rocket that can't even make a low orbit. Botched collision or something?
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<discord-> D​RVeyl. — The entire solar system disapproved of your rocket, and sent it away.
<discord-> s​cimas. — Save and logs, in case anyone wants to investigate. WARNING: scene changes to and from tracking station take a long time.
<discord-> e​gg. — @scimas what does the history of that vessel look like?
<discord-> e​gg. — (the main window allows you to look at as much history as you want)
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<discord-> s​cimas. — History? It was just a suborbital launch. I'm not even sure which part of the vessel got tossed out like that. Bringing it into tracking station view reduced my laptop to a slideshow, so I didn't really try to check anything else.
<discord-> l​pg. — MET 3 minutes, the history is going to be a straight line
<discord-> l​pg. — pieces of debris getting ejected well above light speed is a somewhat common occurrence
<discord-> e​gg. — yeah the question is more how the straight line starts
<discord-> e​gg. — if it is stock explosive interactions then I guess this is WAI
<discord-> s​cimas. — I will try to check it later, can't right now.
<Blu3wolf> WAI?
<discord-> e​gg. — working as intended
<discord-> e​gg. — maybe we need an acronym bot
<Blu3wolf> please, use abbr. - its shorter :)
<discord-> S​tandecco. — wor. a. int.
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<Blu3wolf> is there anything like maneuver nodes for principia?
<discord-> B​uilderbast. — mechjeb manouver planner does not work in principia right?
<Blu3wolf> havent tried, Im normally more of an KER and KSPTOT sort of person. Havent installed KSPTOT yet on this computer, tho
<discord-> B​uilderbast. — oh and is there some form of wiki page with some tips and tricks for interplanetary travel in principia
<discord-> l​pg. — MJ maneuver planner does work, but is less accurate. Principia provides a Flight Planner, which is roughyl equivalent
<discord-> l​pg. — MJ maneuver planner does work, but is less accurate. Principia provides a Flight Planner, which is roughly equivalent (edited)
<discord-> B​uilderbast. — awesome. i used mj manouver planner to quickly get manouver nodes for geo orbit and transfers and stuff
<discord-> B​uilderbast. — oh and due to n body physics I can not use mechjeb for launch windows right? since mj assumes everything is on rails
<discord-> l​pg. — you can use it to estimate windows ahead of time
<discord-> C​onventia. — Creating nodes with MJ doesn't seem to work with Principia installed.
<discord-> l​pg. — it does
<discord-> l​pg. — it has the same 'need upgraded tracking station and mission control' restrictions as stock maneuvers
<Blu3wolf> oh, I found the principia flight planner :D
<discord-> C​onventia. — Hmm... perhaps it's the comms requirement that is causing it to not work?
<discord-> l​pg. — shouldn't.
<Blu3wolf> this is very cool, and very confusing, at the same time
<discord-> l​pg. — principia in a nutshell
<Blu3wolf> big smile on my face right now :D
<Blu3wolf> in stock, I need to be in the SOI to do a 'flyby'. How close do I have to get in Principia?
<Blu3wolf> This is beautiful, and everyone responsible for this is a wonderful person
<Blu3wolf> why have I not been using this mod before now?
<discord-> s​cimas. — @egg So this is in the JNSQ system. The debris part is a FL-T200 fuel tank ( I had them in a discarded stage). Its trajectory starts around halfway between Kerbin and Minmus. The rocket hadn't gone anywhere near there (about 100 km max). So either the part got teleported there or Principia wasn't able to write the initial position in the history. A straight line all the way from there.
<Blu3wolf> so do contracts with SOI conditions get confused when Principia is installed?
<discord-> D​amien. — No
<discord-> D​amien. — On the principia window, you can show patched conics to show what your orbit looks like in terms of that.
<discord-> D​amien. — Situations are still the same under the hood
<Blu3wolf> ah, thanks!
<Blu3wolf> well, todays mun probe is not coming home again XD
<discord-> D​amien. — Don't use the patched conics for any planning though. It can sometimes be helpful to see both a surface fixed frame and a centered inertial frame at the same time
<Blu3wolf> oh, I think this probe is leaving to explore the rest of the system in fact :P
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<discord-> D​amien. — the only time you may actually have some kind of discrepancy between principia and patched conics re: contracts is if the target orbit requirement is too tight. I've never had an issue though using things like KER (which use the stock, osculating figures) to see if I'm in the right orbit. If you get a contract to do a geosat for example, you can use KER or eyeball it to see if you're right and comp
<discord-> D​amien. — this is one I did for a contract in JNSQ
<discord-> D​amien. — contract complete but in surface fixed you can see it's not perfect and will drift
<discord-> D​amien. — this is the orbit, corrected using principia
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<discord-> d​nx. — does anyone have any issue with going full warp speed with principia? my game has insane stutter when i use warp
<discord-> d​nx. — i pretty much have only used principia until i made my first sat because it causes so much lag when i try to warp even when there's a single sat on orbit
<discord-> T​ransparent_Elemental. — it's normal
<discord-> d​nx. — Oh i didn't knew that, i thought i had some issue with my install... thanks! 🙂
<discord-> P​roton-M blok DM-SL. — Does princpia simulate orbital decay
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — No.
<discord-> l​pg. — depends what you mean by i
<discord-> l​pg. — depends what you mean by it (edited)
<discord-> D​amien. — @[] H sharp atmo drag decay, no. Decay due to gravitational anomalies, yes
<discord-> e​gg. — the Moon is scary
<discord-> e​gg. — it will eat your satellites
<discord-> e​gg. — 🌚
<discord-> B​utcher. — Rip my first orbiter.
<discord-> l​pg. — or, sometimes, spit them back out
<discord-> M​yshiko. — @Butcher don’t even mention it, it ate at least 5 of mine.
<discord-> e​gg. — @lamont I think I’m going to fix the multi-manœuvre issue on the Principia side by killing the stock node for one frame when the manœuvre changes so that might resolve itself without requiring you to lift a finger
<discord-> l​amont. — uh i think it still needs fixing on MJ side
<discord-> e​gg. — well there is the part where it apparently broke stock nodes?
<discord-> e​gg. — but it seems to work on a multi-manœuvre Principia plan now
<discord-> e​gg. — so if you don’t want to deal with the remainder of the bug, just make Principia a requirement :-p
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<discord-> l​amont. — oh that got fixed
<discord-> e​gg. — hm
<discord-> e​gg. — maybe I should upgrade my MJ to see if my Principia-side fix fixes the fixed MJ
<discord-> l​amont. — it didn't change much at all, it just busted multi maneuver stock execution at the same time as it didn't support principia multi maneuver
<discord-> l​amont. — fixing it right would be better because it would remove principia as a special-case in the UI, because nobody needs stock node execution in principia
<discord-> e​gg. — yeah the UI could be improved
<discord-> e​gg. — pressing the wrong button is immensely confusing
<discord-> e​gg. — but well, at least killing the node should make it work
<discord-> e​gg. — (and as a bonus, it makes guiding with SAS less silly, because stock SAS had the exact same problem)
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin opened pull request #2609: Flight plan rebasing - https://git.io/JfNM0
<discord-> e​gg. — @Butcher rebase; @lamont improvements to MJ-compatible behaviour https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/pull/2609
<discord-> l​amont. — actually that may make stock execution work a lot better
<discord-> e​gg. — what do you mean ?
<discord-> e​gg. — stock execution would still start at the wrong time for Principia
<discord-> l​amont. — like the patch to support principia could almost just be backed out entirely now
<discord-> l​amont. — i'll have to look at it
<discord-> e​gg. — I don’t think so, because timing
<discord-> e​gg. — you’d have to start exactly at the scheduled time, whereas I think your stock execution does some funny half-Δv business
<discord-> l​amont. — oh you drop the maneuver node right at the start of the burn?
<discord-> e​gg. — yes
<discord-> l​amont. — ahhh yes, then
<discord-> e​gg. — I accidentally press the stock execution button a couple of minutes ago, and that depleted all my fuel on a manœuvre that should not have because of that
<discord-> l​amont. — yeah another reason to fix the UI to remove that distinction
<discord-> e​gg. — yeah execute next node could just follow the Principia-specific logic
<discord-> e​gg. — no need for an execute all nodes, because you can only have one node at a time
<discord-> e​gg. — (and after an open-loop-guided burn, you will want to inspect and maybe do a TCM anyway, guiding multiple manœuvres open-loop seems iffy)
<discord-> B​utcher. — @egg nice. 👌
<discord-> s​cimas. — So the rebase will just do the equivalent of (delete all nodes -> delete flight plan -> create flight plan) ?
<discord-> e​gg. — and recreate all nodes as they were
<discord-> e​gg. — which is the part that was finnicky
<discord-> s​cimas. — Okay, I hoped so, that would be super useful
<discord-> e​gg. — now obviously, once you have that you will probably want an "insert manœuvre" to add a TCM prior to the first preexisting manœuvre, when rebasing leads to something suboptimal due to inaccurate execution...
<discord-> e​gg. — I guess I could add that
<discord-> l​pg. — > nobody needs stock node execution in principia
<discord-> l​pg. — please don't take it away
<discord-> l​pg. — sometimes I just need a quick&dirty circularize (for example), and a plain MJ maneuver is good enough and less effort than a flight plan
<discord-> e​gg. — \o/ cone \o/
<discord-> e​gg. — @DRVeyl \o/ cone \o/ (edited)