raptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Galileo. We currently target 1.5.1, 1.6.1, 1.7.x, 1.8.1, and 1.9.1. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
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<discord-> l​pg. — On galileo now, and I do see something reminiscent of my pre-fuchs magic cube. Could be related to Butcher's misadventures
<discord-> C​onventia. — Let's get jiggle with it!
<discord-> e​gg. — @lpg hm; is this reproducible, and is it reproducible with Fuchs?
<discord-> l​pg. — didn't see it with fuchs, and I did do a number of tests with that same vessel. Reproducible: TBD
<discord-> l​pg. — Same vessel, after quickload, during reentry, also seeing it.
<discord-> l​pg. — so Reproducible: yes
<discord-> l​pg. — Nowhere close to Butcher's numbers, however. Highest observed (so far) 30.5G)
<discord-> l​pg. — now 65.4 (during gentle 70m/s atmospheric fall)
<discord-> e​gg. — the precise numbers are unlikely to be interesting
<discord-> e​gg. — @lpg do you know how to build Principia
<discord-> l​pg. — no. and I don't plan on learning, sorry
<discord-> e​gg. — yeah it is a bit of a pain
<discord-> e​gg. — I'll try making a couple of test builds
<discord-> e​gg. — @lpg Windows, right?
<discord-> l​pg. — yes.
<discord-> l​pg. — With parachutes deployed, they're also reacting to whatever's going on. I hadn't seen that in the fubini days (because I had no parachutes).
<discord-> l​pg. — Anyway I'm checking a 3rd time to confirm reproducibility, then will try switching back to Fuchs
<discord-> l​pg. — no visible jiggle with Fuchs
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin synchronize pull request #2609: Flight plan rebasing - https://git.io/JfNM0
<discord-> e​gg. — (trying to figure out which change broke things)
<discord-> e​gg. — also @Butcher I suppose
<discord-> l​pg. — access denied
<discord-> e​gg. — @lpg fixed I think
<discord-> l​pg. — yup
<discord-> l​pg. — no improvement with 2602
<discord-> l​pg. — or... hm. partial improvement? it wobbled a bit, but seems to have stopped
<egg|cell|egg> Ok so the bug was not introduced by 2604
<egg|cell|egg> Weird
<discord-> l​pg. — it does still happen but seems much more subdued
<egg|cell|egg> Ok, even weirder then
<egg|cell|egg> Do you have a craft that consistently does that
<discord-> l​pg. — It could be happenstance, given I have no idea what factors make it happen and not happen
<egg|cell|egg> Ah we still don't have a clean reproduction?
<discord-> l​pg. — no, it happens on every flight, but it's not constant
<egg|cell|egg> Blarg
<discord-> l​pg. — craft: yes, but maybe not a shareable one, in terms of dependencies
<egg|cell|egg> Well I have an ro save of sorts
<egg|cell|egg> But obviously no two ro installs are alike
<egg|cell|egg> Stock installs are all alike; every modded install is modded in its own way.
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<discord-> l​pg. — came back with a vengeance. 1700G
<discord-> l​pg. — that was after a quicksave/quickload while in atmosphere. probably not relevant, but who knows
<egg|cell|egg> A quick load may be reproducible
<egg|cell|egg> That seems useful
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<discord-> l​pg. — Or maybe relevant. quckloaded again, and, uhm.
<egg|cell|egg> Keep that save, try quick loading it again and if it consistently breaks you have a clean repro
<egg|cell|egg> Check that Fuchs doesn't have it and we are good
<egg|cell|egg> That speed has too many digits
<discord-> l​pg. — the game disagrees. quickloaded again, and I got 2 extra digits for it
<egg|cell|egg> Haha
<discord-> l​pg. — specific behavior's pretty random, but consistently kills the craft in a matter of seconds
<discord-> l​pg. — trying in fuchs will have to wait tomorrow
<egg|cell|egg> Ok
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<discord-> C​onventia. — Could this be related (the parachute being strangely positioned)? Or is this a known other issue?
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<discord-> A​aron Static. — missing a parachute i think
<discord-> A​aron Static. — drogue + main
<discord-> C​onventia. — No, the parachute is offset when loaded. When unloaded, (in warp) it snaps back in place.
<discord-> C​onventia. — The same with the rendezvous module that sat on top of the drogue.
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<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy reviewed pull request #2609 commit - https://git.io/JfxRn
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy reviewed pull request #2609 commit - https://git.io/JfxRc
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<discord-> B​utcher. — My issue occurs on a craft with no positioning weirdness.
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin synchronize pull request #2609: Flight plan rebasing - https://git.io/JfNM0
<discord-> e​gg. — @Butcher there’s a test build up the scrollback between 2602 and 2604 to figure out which one broke things
<discord-> B​utcher. — Yeah just testing that.
<discord-> B​utcher. — Or would testing Fuchs be more useful?
<discord-> e​gg. — Fuchs, then that
<discord-> e​gg. — Galileo was a pretty small release so it should be easy to pinpoint the culprit
<discord-> B​utcher. — Do you keep links to old releases somewhere?
<discord-> e​gg. — the readme has the links to the current one, the readme is under source control
<discord-> B​utcher. — Booting up now.
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<discord-> B​utcher. — Nothing so far in Fuchs.
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy labeled pull request #2609: Flight plan rebasing - https://git.io/JfNM0
<discord-> B​utcher. — @egg I'm tentatively going to say it's not in Fuchs.
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] AnimMouse starred Principia - https://git.io/Jfxod
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<discord-> D​amien. — so it's galileo that's fuched?
<discord-> B​utcher. — It looks like it.
<discord-> C​onventia. — And to think, I just updated... no Fuchs given!
<discord-> C​onventia. — I'm disappointed in myself already.
<discord-> A​gustinCaniglia. — I allways forget where I can find previous versions of principia. Can someone point me to the exact place where the link of Fuchs is?
<discord-> e​gg. — look at the history of the readme
<discord-> A​gustinCaniglia. — Thank you! found it
<discord-> e​gg. — @AgustinCaniglia are you having issues with Galileo?
<discord-> e​gg. — if so, you should say so
<discord-> e​gg. — bugs that we don’t hear about don’t get fixed
<discord-> A​gustinCaniglia. — Not tested that. I thought it had issues because of last comments
<discord-> A​gustinCaniglia. — I am installing ksp now because I think I fixed an issue on my side that keeps crashing my ksp
<discord-> e​gg. — well, Butcher has issues with one specific craft
<discord-> e​gg. — so does lpg
<discord-> e​gg. — but given that everybody isn’t yelling all the time it’s probably not completely broken
<discord-> e​gg. — and it does fix some bugs
<discord-> A​gustinCaniglia. — So should I download galileo nevertheles? ok... will test that then
<discord-> e​gg. — yes, you should use the latest version
<discord-> A​gustinCaniglia. — ok
<discord-> B​utcher. — @egg Would you like me to test a different bisection of the code? Fuchs seems fine.
<discord-> e​gg. — @Butcher there is that test build I linked here
<discord-> B​utcher. — Oh yes, I'll grab that.
<discord-> B​utcher. — That's 2602?
<discord-> e​gg. — yeah, 2602 but no 2604
<discord-> B​utcher. — Test build, failed. Probe exploded.
<discord-> B​utcher. — It's something Fuchs < X <= 2602.
<discord-> e​gg. — @Butcher OK, this is fascinating
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<discord-> e​gg. — technically there is also https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/pull/2597 as far as nontrivial changes in Galileo are concerned
<discord-> e​gg. — hmmmm
<discord-> e​gg. — this removes the safeguard against non-unit quaternions, and instead it tries to beat the matrix into orthogonality
<discord-> e​gg. — is the matrix-to-quaternion conversion poorly conditioned?
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<discord-> e​gg. — @Butcher experimenting with altitudes of mean apsides and whole-mission minimal altitude
<discord-> D​amien. — what does the +- mean with regards to the altitude? (43+-33km)
<discord-> D​amien. — what does the +- mean with regards to the altitude? (MPA = 43+-33km) (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — over the mission duration, the altitude of the mean periapsis varies between 10 km and 76 km
<discord-> e​gg. — (note that the mean periapsis is not the same thing as the periapsis markers in map view)
<discord-> D​amien. — ok thx
<discord-> D​amien. — that's a cool feature to add btw. very useful
<discord-> B​utcher. — @egg Minimum altitude is ASL?
<discord-> e​gg. — yeah
<discord-> e​gg. — and I issue a warning for reentry/collision risk/collision depending on atmosphere and max and min terrain height
<discord-> e​gg. — Nudged the orbit a bit, now it looks more stable (but definitely not frozen)
<discord-> B​utcher. — @egg Thoughts on testing things for the mad spinning issue?
<discord-> B​utcher. — I can take 2597 out if you think it would be useful...
<discord-> e​gg. — @Butcher yeah that seems like an interesting eggsperiment
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4345/
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<discord-> l​pg. — I take it I can skip trying my own save with Fuchs?
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4345/
<discord-> e​gg. — yeah probably
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Newest version is messing up air launches.
<discord-> e​gg. — air launches as in the mechanism that teleports your plane into the air?
<discord-> e​gg. — this is a known incompatibility
<discord-> e​gg. — it would likely require a change on the airlaunch side
<discord-> e​gg. — the issue is not new though, we have been messing with that since Frobenius
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Hmm....
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — So who's responsible for the airlaunch? RP-1?
<discord-> e​gg. — Something like that? I think it is part of KCT? I forget the details
<discord-> e​gg. — @siimav knoweth
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Thanks
<discord-> s​iimav. — KCT is maintained by LGG but that airlaunch feature was my contribution
<discord-> s​iimav. — (yes, airlaunch is implemented in KCT)
<discord-> e​gg. — So I guess keep bugging siimav, or build B-52s to launch your planes
<discord-> e​gg. — :-p
<discord-> s​iimav. — Meh, hack gravity helps 😜
<discord-> e​gg. — that, too :D
<discord-> e​gg. — if you hack gravity hard enough you can launch your x-plane with a cessna :-p
<discord-> s​iimav. — Unfortunately FAR probably won't be happy about that
<discord-> e​gg. — clearly we need a "hack aerodynamics" toggle
<discord-> e​gg. — @lpg @Butcher can you reproduce your issue while journalling?
<discord-> e​gg. — if it is a numerics issue like I suspect we can probably catch it from the journal
<discord-> B​utcher. — How do I journal?
<discord-> e​gg. — @Butcher @lpg do that at Galileo, not some intermediate build, so that we know what to replay wth
<discord-> e​gg. — @Butcher @lpg do that at Galileo, not some intermediate build, so that we know what to replay with (edited)
<discord-> B​utcher. — Will do, it'll be tomorrow now though.
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<discord-> e​gg. — (unless lpg beats you to it)
<discord-> e​gg. — it is nice that we have a rotation of testers on that bug :D
<discord-> B​utcher. — 😉
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — > Meh, hack gravity helps 😜
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — @siimav It do! Hack gravity checked, left at 1G. No issues! Worked like a charm
<discord-> l​pg. — Will journaling of my 'quickload in atmosphere, destruction within seconds' case do? or do you need something longer-running?
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2610: The vector space of Poisson series - https://git.io/JfpYC
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy edited pull request #2610: The vector space of Poisson series - https://git.io/JfpYC
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4346/
<discord-> e​gg. — @lpg that will do, assuming that this quickload is that bug
<discord-> e​gg. — however to convince ourselves that that quickload is that bug I suppose that you would have to try it with Fuchs, so that we know that this is the new bug and not an old bug
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4346/
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<discord-> l​pg. — journaling appears to turn off upon quickload
<discord-> e​gg. — oh
<discord-> e​gg. — yes
<discord-> e​gg. — it will do that
<discord-> e​gg. — which is a problem obviously here
<discord-> e​gg. — hm
<discord-> e​gg. — you could edit the save and set must_record_journal = true in the adapter
<discord-> l​pg. — good lord that's a lot of data
<discord-> e​gg. — hehehe
<discord-> l​pg. — I believe this is a new record
<discord-> e​gg. — but the first step in the long march towards making that data smaller is https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/pull/2610/files
<discord-> l​pg. — I did confirm nothing untoward happens with fuchs
<discord-> e​gg. — thank you very much
<discord-> l​pg. — And I'm reasonably sure that's the right file. principia window did show 'journaling is on' right from the start, and file timestamp matched
<discord-> e​gg. — yeah the "journaling is on" lamp should be faithful