egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
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<queqiao-_> ⟨S​oviet Onion⟩ society if people used TLI stage
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​oviet Onion⟩
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​oviet Onion⟩ _base on Lunar poles_
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​pg⟩ Gentle criticism: with a reasonable understanding if the complexities involved in #2400, I nevertheless feel that the unpleasantness of the #3200 adventure would have been mitigated by the presence of _something_ along the lines of a 'forget history for all vessels' button, or a 'opt out of history tracking for this vessel' button
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​pg⟩ (though I admit there's something to be said for the fact that the absence of such buttons increased my chances of realizing something was amiss)
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​pg⟩ With .sfs back down to a more reasonable 50MB, it still feels like scene changes are more sluggish than previously. But with no good way to do rigorous comparisons, and with my career having more probes in transit than I've ever had, there's not a lot of weight behind that feeling. Only mentioning it for anecdotal purposes
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<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ how do you target celestial bodies in principia
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ (sorry for the number of questions i just started with principia)
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ click on them?
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ doesnt work
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ only thing i can do is focus but i cant right click to set target
<queqiao-_> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Targeting works the same as stock.
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ wtf
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ oh oh
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ can also choose target in principia interface and mechjeb interface
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ i can select targets on earth
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ i cant select other spacecraft as well
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ huh
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ well here is one way that works: via kerbal engineer. just tried, it does work, unlike my previous suggestions 🙂
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ bruh
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ but i'm sure i've seen target selection in principia windows, maybe it appears after you start a flight plan?
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ i have to get to orbit though first
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ and i need to get to the moon
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ which i need to go to a orbit that lets me go to the moon first
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ no i don't see target selection there. i must have always done it in KER then.
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ kerbal engineer is pretty handy
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ it just worked
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ with kerbal
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ as for the moon, i'm quite sure there is no automated way to target the moon and just let the ship fly there 😦
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ ye i was goona use pvg ascent guidance to fly to the orbit i need but you have to select a target
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ which i couldnt
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ well, it won't work anyway
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ unless maybe from Kourou
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ whats that?
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Kourou is the best spaceport on Earth, owned by the French
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ ah
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ btw fyi it seems that kerbal works with mechjeb
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ for ascent guidance
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ not sure what will be the result
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ not sure either but will see
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ nvm
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ so yes, it will not work
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ yup
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ well im up for ideas on how to target stuff
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ or fix the targeting for the game
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ it's not about targeting
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ well i cant target anything
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ principia wiki says, "To select a target celestial in map view, open "KSP Features and check 'Select target celestial' in the main Principia window, and click on target. If playing in career, you will need to have upgraded your Tracking Station to the appropriate level."
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ that isnt a thing for me
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ oh tracking station
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ so the question is if tracking station is upgraded?
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ hol up
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ i am in the process of upgrading
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ 20 days
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ but actually i think we found an issue in kerbal engineer, it doesn't check if tracking station is upgraded or not ) it's an exploit!
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ i've been using an exploit (
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ lemme open up a sandbox save
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ also are those stats true?
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ thats tracking station stats
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ distance is not true )
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ is it different for u?
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ i don't think it works when landed
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ huh
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ ok im on a new save
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ lets see
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ ok i can select targets pog
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ this hasnt changed however
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ doesnt work when landed
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ right
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ pvg doesnt wor k
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ work
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ no automated way i'm afraid
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ i suggest sim launching the proble into whatever orbit and planing TLI, then analyzing why it doesn't work either )
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ i suggest sim launching the probe into whatever orbit and planing TLI, then analyzing why it doesn't work either ) (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ @von Kerman thanks for the help i appricieate it
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ @von Kerman thanks for the help i appreciate it (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ you're welcome 🙂
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ seriously though, it would be great if missions could be somehow planned in the tracking station ... but there is no way to do it (
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceBoi⟩ true
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<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #3206: Benchmark for DiscreteTrajectory - https://git.io/J11up
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #3206: Benchmark for DiscreteTrajectory - https://git.io/J11up
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5266/
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5266/
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #3206: Benchmark for DiscreteTrajectory - https://git.io/J11up
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5267/
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ we considered having a « I am lpg » flag to rescue your save, but decided against more untested components
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​pg⟩ nah the save is fine. but I feel like even with the best possible solution to 2400, there'll always exist _some_ need for scrubbing the history every once in a while
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​pg⟩ and pushing it out from 'when you have 20 vessels' to 'when you have 50' isn't exactly going to make the actual scrubbing process more pleasant
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ we hope that we will push it to « when you have so many vessels that you can’t reasonably timewarp anyway »
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ (the idea is, ballpark, a cap of a megabyte per vessel or so, possibly tunable—if you have two hundred vessels using Principia will be painful no matter what)
<queqiao-_> ⟨s​ichelgaita⟩ So I looked into this by profiling the serialization/deserialization cycle that happens on scene changes, and I didn't see anything untoward. The new code takes about 6% of that cycle, and it's not like the old code was completely free, so I am going to claim that no performance change should be noticeable, and I'll blame the *nocebo* effect. I also specifically benchmarked the new code, and
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5267/
<queqiao-_> ⟨Q​uadrupole⟩ Do Principia and stock RSS bodies' orbits agree on 1/1/1951 or 1/1/1950?
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ probably neither, there are strange adjustments in stock RSS to make the moon maximally inclined and the moons of Saturn aligned with the ecliptic so its rings don’t look weird iirc
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ probably neither, there are strange adjustments in stock RSS to make the moon maximally inclined and the moons of Saturn aligned with the Earth’s equator so its rings don’t look weird iirc (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨Q​uadrupole⟩ Thanks.
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<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ I'm now enforcing TiltEm for RSS non-principia users
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ _enforce_???
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ however, its rotation system needs overhaul
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ and need to solve orbit parameter kraken when not in on-rail warp (in on-rail warp it is okay though)
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ This is visual, however it make transfers faulty (significantly increase dv req for transferring from other moons to titan in a Saturn system grand tour)
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ correct now (Saturn is tilted via tiltem)
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ Values is,
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ @Body[Saturn]
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ {
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ @Properties
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ {
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ tiltx = 27.638
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ tiltz = -4.6761
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ }
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ }
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ … I’m not sure what you mean by « enforce », but as @Al2Me6 points out, this is probably not the word you meant to use.
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ "apply"maube
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ "apply"maybe (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ anyway, when did this become the « Kerbinator’s fork of TiltEm » channel?
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ hmm
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ however I **does** decide to take it seriously, may you create a RSS-Restoration-2-body channel for this?
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ oh, mods not admin
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #3206: Benchmark for DiscreteTrajectory - https://git.io/J11up
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy pushed 4 commits to Ondelette [+0/-0/±13] https://git.io/J1M0W
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy e884524 - A factory for motionless timelines.
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy 2b79fdf - Add the discrete trajectory benchmark to our project and convert it to the new DiscreteTrajectory.
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy 7be6eff - Lint.
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy 3e7ad79 - Merge pull request #3206 from pleroy/Benchmark Benchmark for DiscreteTrajectory
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ I saw that you asked for your own channel, but consider this: You are attempting to make a _major_ change to a fundamental mod while:
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ * not consulting with the dev team
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ * using a mod that is _known_ to be broken in certain situations (you admitted this yourself)
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ * not considering that the change would introduce even more (arguably unwarranted? since there's Principia) complexity for the beginner
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ * not considering that very few, if any, people care about the change
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ * spamming an unrelated channel
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ I trust that you're doing this in good faith, but please consider the impression you're giving...
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ I saw that you asked for your own channel, but consider this: You are attempting to make a _major_ change to a fundamental mod while:
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ * not consulting with the dev team
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ * using a mod that is _known_ to be broken in certain situations (you admitted this yourself)
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ * not considering that the change would introduce even more (arguably unwarranted? since there's Principia) complexity for the beginner
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ * not considering that very few, if any, people care about the change
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ * spamming an unrelated channel
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ I trust that you're doing this in good faith, but please consider the impression you're leaving... (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ Truly thanks for your kindness and warm reminder.
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ for the last thing, first is to say sorry, but are there really related channel? #ro-general ?
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ and another thing is, RSS is targeting reality, so my work is to bring realism feelings to non-Principia users (either because of computer limitation or accustomed to stock). Advantages are not limited to tilts, but also more precise orbit params (at least for solar planets whose j2 pertubation does not take place because Sun J2 is little)
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ Truly thanks for your kindness and warm reminder.
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ For the last thing you mentioned, first is to say sorry, but are there really related channel? #ro-general ?
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ and another thing is, RSS is targeting reality, so my work is to bring realism feelings to non-Principia users (either because of computer limitation or accustomed to stock). Advantages are not limited to tilts, but also more precise orbit params (at least for solar planets whose j2 pertubation does not take place because Sun J2 is little)
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ Last: TiltEm is not buggy in two main scenes: (1)rotated planetarium off, anywhere (2)rotated planetarium on, vessel still on rail (for example, during onrail warp) (3)rotated planetarium on, warp off (or physics warp), and you get close enough to tilt object that kraken force is little. So these bugs are tolerable with a minimum safety consciousness and a certain amount of
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ Truly thanks for your kindness and warm reminder.
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ For the last thing you mentioned, first is to say sorry, but are there really related channel? #ro-general ?
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ and another thing is, RSS is targeting reality, so my work is to bring realism feelings to non-Principia users (either because of computer limitation or accustomed to stock). Advantages are not limited to tilts, but also more precise orbit params (at least for solar planets whose j2 pertubation does not take place because Sun J2 is little)
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ Last: TiltEm is not buggy in most main scenes: (1)rotated planetarium off, anywhere (2)rotated planetarium on, vessel still on rail (for example, during onrail warp) (3)rotated planetarium on, warp off (or physics warp), and you get close enough to tilt object that kraken force is little. So these bugs are tolerable with a minimum safety consciousness and a certain amount of
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #3207: Optimize some operations of DiscreteTrajectory and friends - https://git.io/J1M2N
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5268/
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #3207: Optimize some operations of DiscreteTrajectory and friends - https://git.io/J1M2N
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ Truly thanks for your kindness and warm reminder.
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ For the last thing you mentioned, first is to say sorry, but are there really related channel? #ro-general ?
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ and another thing is, RSS is targeting reality, so my work is to bring realism feelings to non-Principia users (either because of computer limitation or accustomed to stock). Advantages are not limited to tilts, but also more precise orbit params (at least for solar planets whose j2 pertubation does not take place because Sun J2 is little)
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (free to ping me)!⟩ Last: TiltEm is not buggy in most main scenes: (1)rotated planetarium off, anywhere (2)rotated planetarium on, vessel still on rail (for example, during onrail warp) (3)rotated planetarium on, warp off (or physics warp), and you get close enough to tilt object that kraken force is little. So these bugs are tolerable with a minimum safety consciousness and a certain amount of
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5268/
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #3207: Optimize some operations of DiscreteTrajectory and friends - https://git.io/J1M2N
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy pushed 3 commits to Ondelette [+0/-0/±10] https://git.io/J1M7c
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy 89376ea - Optimize the discrete trajectory code.
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy eacc5d3 - Leftover 1337.
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy f8e0d45 - Merge pull request #3207 from pleroy/Optimize Optimize some operations of DiscreteTrajectory and friends
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​pg⟩ Is it to be expected that pressing the Active Engines button in a flight plan might slightly alter the trajectory every time? (or not so slightly, given suitable near misses to magnify the effect)
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​pg⟩ (whereas pressing Rebase doesn't alter it at all)
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​umpkinaxe⟩ hi so i downloaded principia for the 4th time now and it keeps crashing like it always does but i dont know why
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​umpkinaxe⟩ id really appreciate some help on getting it to work
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] ManuelBlanc starred Principia - https://git.io/J1DRZ
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ have you considered reading the FAQ? which tells you that this log file is useless, and that we have our own?
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​umpkinaxe⟩ i litterally just read that as a matter of fact, sorry about that
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​umpkinaxe⟩ give me a sec
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​umpkinaxe⟩ is this what you were looking for?
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​umpkinaxe⟩ uhh
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​umpkinaxe⟩ no it wasnt now that i look at it
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​umpkinaxe⟩ ok so i found the 'glog' folder containing folder, 'principia' and inside of that there are a bunch of files, im a bit confused on which ones you need, ive got:
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Send the `FATAL` one
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​umpkinaxe⟩ i hadnt even started a mission i was litterally in the ksc menu screen where u can select which building you want to enter
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ it sounds like you have two parts with the same part ID
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ I would guess some mod violated a KSP invariant
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​umpkinaxe⟩ ah interesting! so a whole long time ago when i updated ksp it changed the model of the small landing gear, but instead of changing it for my version of ksp it just added the new one somehow so that may be it! oh wait no i just found which part it was and deleted it... so i dont know so this will be fun going in mod by mod
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ @sichelgaita is there a way to get principia's orbit plotting from different reference frames without the nbody physics? the stock patched conics are very buggy
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ @sichelgaita is there a way to get principia's orbit plotting from different reference frames without the nbody physics? the stock patched conics are very unreliable (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ @egg
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceFace545⟩ Not exactly a cat but this should count
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ ... whet?
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ ... what? (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceFace545⟩ Yeh principia is the unofficial cat channel
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ oh ok
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ … I suppose the tl;dr answer is no, but… why? the change in UI and having to learn to juggle the reference frame mechanics is the main impediment to playing with Principia, not the perturbations arising from third bodies in strange circumstances
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ it would actually be really useful to set up resonant flybys
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ for example, using a series of mun and kerbin assists to get to eve at only the cost of the initial mun transfer
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ no but what I mean is, if you want that, why not just play Principia?
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ i cant use hyperedit or the ingame change orbit tool
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ also that makes complex gravity assist chains very annoying (id assume)
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ You could change the settings file that tells how many SOI get shown with the patched conics
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ That would help for setting up flybys like you want
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ > id assume
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ have you actually played the mod? these are essentially unaffected by third-body effects
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ anyway, if you want to cheat things into orbit, hacking gravity is your friend
<queqiao-_> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Cats you say?
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ well, that i already have but the stock patched conics sometimes only show encounters multiple orbits in the future (sometimes 50+ years)
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ I haven't used patched conics in a while, but I don't recall that
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ well, that takes time, and what if i want to for example test a tylo landing?
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ well, it does
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ and in general the stock patched conics can be very unreliable
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ hacking gravity makes the orbit-setting thing work with Principia.
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ Anyway.
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ huh
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ the answer to your question is a resounding no, and to which I should add that it is not what you want, and that you are evidently very unfamiliar with Principia. Have you considered trying it?
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ i only want the ui enhancements, not gameplay changes
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ i have, but only very briefly
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ there is no difference between those two. This conversation is beginning to get tiresome.
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Not sure about that. I see that for some players, the main impediment is being unable to hit the moon (and having no idea how to even approach this mission). Even today someone has complained that PVG is broken, when it refused to launch them into the plane of the moon. Other complain about the performance 😦 Interface is definitely not the main issue, in fact it's great, much more informativ
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Not sure about that. I see that for some players, the main impediment is being unable to hit the moon (and having no idea how to even approach this mission). Even today someone has complained that PVG is broken, when it refused to launch them into the plane of the moon. Others complain about the performance 😦 Interface is definitely not the main issue, in fact it's great, much more informati
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceFace545⟩ Floofy cat
<queqiao-_> ⟨B​utcher⟩ He only likes me.
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ How is the recently fixed one?
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ well actually, there is. n body physics work best with rss-ro, in the stock system vall gets yeeted out of jools orbit.
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin opened pull request #3208: Remove Forkable - https://git.io/J1D5U
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Well, egg took that into account and made Principia make Bop go retrograde to prevent that
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5269/
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ thats not really my point
<queqiao-_> ⟨K​irk (He/Him)⟩ Have you ever considered that the creator of Principia might know more about Principia than you do?
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ i just need a better orbit prediction where i can see the trajectory from any celestial body's reference frame and more than just one orbit in the future, just like in principia
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Why don't you just install Principia?
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ because i dont want the n body physics
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ not a very common consideration today…
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ I wonder why
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ and principia is the only mod ive seen so far that does that
<queqiao-_> ⟨K​irk (He/Him)⟩ Then use stock conics
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ they suck ass sometimes
<queqiao-_> ⟨K​irk (He/Him)⟩ Your options are Principia or stock
<queqiao-_> ⟨K​irk (He/Him)⟩ Make a choice
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ stock
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ but with a better UI
<queqiao-_> ⟨K​irk (He/Him)⟩ *That's not a choice*
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ do you know any mods that do that?
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ If you want that, you may have to make it yourself
<queqiao-_> ⟨K​irk (He/Him)⟩ THERE ARE NONE
<queqiao-_> ⟨K​irk (He/Him)⟩ There are none
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ principia does something similar
<queqiao-_> ⟨K​irk (He/Him)⟩ Choose stock patched conics or Principia
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ BY VIRTUE OF MY STATUS AS A BLUE ONE, this conversation can serve no further purpose. @The Benjineer, I am asking that you stop this line of inquiry.
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​paceFace545⟩ Can’t have the benefits of principia without the mod smh
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ and again, im just asking for a way to get the UI elements into the stock game
<queqiao-_> ⟨K​irk (He/Him)⟩ Doesn't exist
<queqiao-_> ⟨K​irk (He/Him)⟩ Egg isn't gonna do it for you
<raptop> Patched conics can already be switched between different modes in stock, though...?
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ If you want this, you're going to have to make it yourself
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Only surface/target/orbit iirc
<raptop> (so I'm unclear what Principia UI stuff would add. Besides not being meaningful when all orbits are Keplerian)
<raptop> ...also, I wish I wasn't so allergic, so it would be easy to post catpix
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ principia lets you see orbits from different body's reference frame, stock game doesnt
<queqiao-_> ⟨K​irk (He/Him)⟩ Correct
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Get a sphynx cat, raptop
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ that is exactly what i want
<queqiao-_> ⟨K​irk (He/Him)⟩ Then install Principia
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Just try it
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Perturbations are minor unless you do crazy stuff
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ again, i said i dont want the n body physics. im asking if theres a way to get one without the other
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ well, i wanna do crazy stuff
<queqiao-_> ⟨K​irk (He/Him)⟩ Then you don't get reference frames
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ also i dont want vall to get yeeted out of jool orbit
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ why do you have such aversion to n body physics? vall can be fixed easily
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ You will barely even notice it is n-body
<queqiao-_> ⟨K​irk (He/Him)⟩ @The Benjineer Following up on what egg said, either make a choice or leave. You are not getting anywhere with this
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Beggars can't be choosers. Stop.
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ is my understanding of ksp modding incorrect or isnt there a way to take the code that handles the UI bits and put it into a standalone mod?
<queqiao-_> ⟨K​irk (He/Him)⟩ If you ask that question again I'm kicking you myself
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Make a pull-request and do it yourself if you are so confident that it will work
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ You have demonstrated that you woefully lack understanding of how any of this works. So, again, please stop.
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ i wansnt even sure if i described my problem good enough
<queqiao-_> ⟨K​irk (He/Him)⟩ Sure, there might be. No one has done it. If you want it, do it yourself
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ _Multiple_ people have now told you that what you want does not exist, and cannot exist without significant -- and largely pointless -- work that the volunteers that write Principia _for free_, in their _personal time_, are not willing to do. Stop bothering them (and the rest of us).
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​pg⟩ I really should have stopped reading at " I suppose the tl;dr answer is no"
<queqiao-_> ⟨s​ichelgaita⟩ Don't read the comments...
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ bruh i was just asking....
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Well, you have the answer several times now
<queqiao-_> ⟨b​adgermasher⟩ Just do it 🔫
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ You asked, that's fine.
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ You didn't like the answer that you got, and kept complaining. _This_ is not fine.
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​he Benjineer⟩ i didnt complain
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ You asked, that's fine.
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ You didn't like the answer that you got, and kept ~~complainig~~ asking the same question. _This_ is not fine. (edited)
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<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5269/
<queqiao-_> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ Egg its better to not look this conversation ⛈️
<queqiao-_> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ Or wrath of egg appears
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Egg's response started it...
<queqiao-_> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ 😵‍💫
<raptop> aaaa
<raptop> Anyway, have something n-body related: https://arxiv.org/abs/2111.09685
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ It did already
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy labeled pull request #3208: Remove Forkable - https://git.io/J1D5U
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin closed issue #3136: Forkable must die - https://git.io/J2caY
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin closed pull request #3208: Remove Forkable - https://git.io/J1D5U
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin pushed 403 commits to master [+79/-35/±1525] https://git.io/J1DN9
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin 3f99fea - Merge pull request #3208 from mockingbirdnest/Ondelette Remove Forkable
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Egg's response started it... (edit: not to suggest that egg provoked it) (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨s​ichelgaita⟩ @lpg Thanks a lot for your testing and feedback regarding test3200. We just merged it into the main line, the changes will go in Hamilton at the beginning of December.
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy commented on issue #3203: Unexpected .sfs growth with #3200 test build - https://git.io/J1DAq
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy closed issue #3203: Unexpected .sfs growth with #3200 test build - https://git.io/J1lEx
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin deleted branch Ondelette - https://git.io/fpDwq
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin deleted branch Ondelette
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #3209: Ζήνων is Hamilton - https://git.io/J1Dpf
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5270/
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #3209: Ζήνων is Hamilton - https://git.io/J1Dpf
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5270/
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #3209: Ζήνων is Hamilton - https://git.io/J1Dpf
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±17] https://git.io/J1yeA
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy 4be475f - Ζήνων is Hamilton.
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy 5d43e41 - Lint.
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy 22a36f2 - Merge pull request #3209 from pleroy/Zenon Ζήνων is Hamilton
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #3209: Ζήνων is Hamilton - https://git.io/J1Dpf
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #3210: Fix some errors found by Clang - https://git.io/J1yv3
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5271/
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #3210: Fix some errors found by Clang - https://git.io/J1yv3
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5271/
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #3210: Fix some errors found by Clang - https://git.io/J1yv3
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±16] https://git.io/J1yv8
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy 0116bd3 - Fix Clang errors.
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy 841add0 - Merge branch 'master' into Clang
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy a346e49 - Merge pull request #3210 from pleroy/Clang Fix some errors found by Clang
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin opened issue #3211: We should not spawn unused orbit analysers - https://git.io/J1yvA
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled issue #3211: We should not spawn unused orbit analysers - https://git.io/J1yvA