egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
<queqiao->
⟨dannyb3001⟩ are any exoplanet mods compatible with principia and RSS?
<paculino>
Slippist becomes Trappist is compatible, but I'm not sure if it settles the 'and rss' part
<queqiao->
⟨§κyℓαr ♀⟩ UmbralRaptop: I was replying to eggs ROSolar cat photo :3
<queqiao->
⟨Overloader⟩ can I execute principia maneuvers with mechjeb?
<queqiao->
⟨Quadrupole⟩ Yes
<queqiao->
⟨Overloader⟩ But I wont be able to use mechjeb to do interplanetary transfers, I have to plan those by hand, right?
<queqiao->
⟨Soviet Onion⟩ ⟪§κyℓαr ♀⟫ scrungly ⮪ Solar scrungly
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ oof, iirc Principia have kOS integration that allows kOS to read PRmanoeuvre
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ so is it possible to "force" kOS or kRPC to make a temporary MJ-alike GUI to edit Principia nodes in precision as high as I want
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ (for me, I think mouse+bar only get me to precision of 1m/s; I need more, at least 0.1)
<queqiao->
⟨Quadrupole⟩ You can type in numbers in flight planner?
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ * 1m/s (you can say that I don't get it; free to talk about it);
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ ⟪Quadrupole⟫ You can type in numbers in flight […] ⮪ if you repeat it for 100 times you feel it annoying.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ sometimes in node planning, for example, I click 100 +0.001 button in prograde, and then I use my eyes to track how Periapsis move, as a curve in my brain
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ then I use it for how I plot for the next.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ I don't know why there are 2 files lost?
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ The word _generated_ in the file name should be a clue that these files must be generated. The build process is documented.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ and there is a bug that sometimes in 2 right-click on the same position cause trajectory to move in different direction
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ and my mouse is not very close to bar middle.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ and there is a bug that sometimes in 2 right-click on the same position cause trajectory to move in opposite direction
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ anyway this is not very reliable tbh 😂 (at least for me), I prefer a +/- decimal float editor
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ egg did you do some precision trajectory edit (for example a st of multiple gravity assists) with your slide bar system, and you like it is it, as the slider system is used when principia firstly appear, up to now
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ * precisie
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ * precise
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ just place your mouse closer to the middle of the bar, simple as
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ ⟪Kerbinator⟫ oof, iirc Principia have kOS […] ⮪ kOS doesn't have integration.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ firstly I reclled word "PRmanoeurve" once existed (at least) in Principia wiki
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ and, I think it's better to rewrite the UI if possible, and re-build the KSP plugin adapter.
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ I'm not sure why you have such trouble. You can type in values to 0.001 m/s which is a ridiculously small amount of delta v.
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ * <0.001
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ My understanding is that Kerbinator is after even more ridiculously small amounts of Δv. And is therefore squarely outside the scope of things we could possibly be interested in.
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ Smaller than 1 mm/s? So essentially firing RCS for a millisecond or something.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ no, a chat in QQ indicates:
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ usually RO crafts have very large mass. and RO RCS is not a dead full throttle
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ by using 0.5% max throttle, and smallest RCS for largest craft
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ even 10^-9 precision is well managable (and there are RO ion engines with millinewtons of thrust that make it way easier)
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ Why even play RO if you're going to forfeit all semblance of realism?
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ ⟪egg⟫ My understanding is that Kerbinator is […] ⮪ look at this
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ Just play stock, set throttle to 0.001% and off you go.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ the logic of how I plot ⮪ this is unrelated with precision problem
<queqiao->
⟨Quadrupole⟩ As I said, velocity of a spacecraft cannot be determined exactly, so there is no point from a realism point of view of having super accurate burns.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ sometimes in node planning, for […] ⮪ look at this message, there is nothing related to super high precision
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ Not to mention RO engines are not that accurate in any event.
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ Realistically you shouldn't be able to set thrust limits as low as 0.5% on RCS either.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ so is Principia bundled with RO? isn't it just a tool to explore N-body physics?
<queqiao->
⟨Soviet Onion⟩ it's not ?
<queqiao->
⟨Soviet Onion⟩ for the former part, that is
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ it is not tied to RO. But the things we do are the things we find interesting. Redesigning the UI to improve the convenience of dealing with absurdly small increments in velocity is not such a thing.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Indeed some way of conveying of the stability of a trajectory—how sensitive it would be to tiny changes in initial conditions—might be interesting, and would likely run counter to making it possible to work around chaos.
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ also, whats even the usecase for precision this high ?
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ outside of near 0 ∆V deep space maneuvers that is
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ To explore 𝑛-Body physics, as you put it, is, in some cases, to explore chaos. To hide that chaos would wrongly convey how those dynamical systems behave.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ ⟪egg⟫ To explore 𝑛-Body physics, as you put […] ⮪ chaos exactly means the more precise the better
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ You are, as usual, missing the point.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ for example, a L2 halo orbit, the orbits one node can control increase a loop if you raise precision 100 times
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ and there are no instructions directly written in books of orbital mechanics begging you to lower the precision in the first plotting phase
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ +(essential DSMs, not TCSs compensating for burning errors)
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ * TCMs
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ ⟪pEdro⟫ also, whats even the usecase for […] ⮪ again, just take a look at Reach's 8 planets flyby video, which I already posted here.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ In _your_ logic, this high precision, Reach must be mal-using the flight planner (joking)
<queqiao->
⟨Soviet Onion⟩ ISEE-3 ?
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ * incorrectly using
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ no, it's a out-of-history mission
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ yes, and this video have a bunch of super-precise node that all you guys want to avoid, and crying hard for
<queqiao->
⟨Soviet Onion⟩ why so aggressive ? 🤨
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ you can do this without impossible precision with like 5m/s more
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ * almost all nodes except the Earth escape burn are super-precise nodes
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ +∆V
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ⟪Kerbinator⟫ yes, and almost all nodes except the […] ⮪ I think this is the language barrier, but this language is not appropriate.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ ⟪pEdro⟫ you can do this without impossible […] ⮪ no, you can't
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ KSP is not IRL, you don't have secondary plotting loop that can make you lower the precision
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ just do correction burns more often than like twice a decade
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ if you do low precision in first loop plotting, you end up have very large correction dv after 3 or 4 assists, or so
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ then do a correction after every assist
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ But Reach did that mission, so the current planner must be adequate. 🤔
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ and another thing, **precision-unrelated*
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ I use ridgeline plotting method
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ (to explain, for example, I put a node before the assist or arrival; then I need to find the ridgeline, the trail of periapsis when one parameter is continously changing
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ ⟪Butcher⟫ But Reach did that mission, so the […] ⮪ I asked him, he's just bearing the low precision of the planner
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ and use hundreds of direct decimal inputs to flood the planner
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ and force it to unimaginable precision
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ definitely, very time-wasting
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ Unimaginable? Right.
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ The underlying simulation has precision limits that cannot be exceeded.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ but I don't very accept such low-time-efficiency editing
<queqiao->
I can finish a stock KEKKJ within half an hour, but in Principia I need at least 3 hours
<queqiao->
⟨pEdro⟩ just
<queqiao->
do
<queqiao->
correction
<queqiao->
burns
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Kerbinator’s argumentation is not very legible, but I think there is a point that is trying to be made about finding a theoretical geodesic that would have the right property (which is then the thing that you would approximate with the actual low-precision burns and corrections).
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ plotting in high precision then executing in lower precision, still result far better than plotting in low precision already
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ That is, to plan the large burns and TCMs, you need to know what the shape of your ideal trajectory is, to match it. But to find that ideal trajectory is not easy in the planner as it stands.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ ⟪egg⟫ That is, to plan the large burns and […] ⮪ you get me! thanks
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ this is why I'm now already trained myself to have hyperefficiency in stock node planning
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ and I want to have it in principia later
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ +(currently I know how to switch frames)
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ OK. Now that there is an interesting problem identified we can think about it. I’ll maybe file an issue to see how best to address the general problem of determining theoretical trajectories to later approximate (windows for assists and the like).
<queqiao->
It may well be that the planner in its current form is entirely the wrong tool for that job.
<queqiao->
⟨Zavian⟩ ⟪Kerbinator⟫ again, just take a look at Reach's 8 […] ⮪ I don't think Reach's precision is achievable in reality. in the real world I don't think we have precise enough tracking tools to pinpoint the starting conditions well enough to actually achieve 12 flybys with a total correction burn of less than 1m/s. Even if we could, solar wind effect would probably be enough that they would necessitate larger correction burns...
<queqiao->
... anyway.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Oh absolutely. But Reach’s overall _plan_ ought to be feasible, just with less-precise burns and TCMs halfway to keep to the plan.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ and to come up with that plan is difficult with the current tools, which is the point Kerbinator is trying to hint at.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ ⟪egg⟫ OK. Now that there is an interesting […] ⮪ MJ style might be already doing a good job, that planner style is simple and useful
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ I think it's easier to use than PreciseNode, where the +/- step value is hardcoded
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Right now what people do in RSS/RO is to reuse historically studied (or used) assists. There you can just plan burns and TCMs to match the trajectory you know from elsewhere. To find such a trajectory is a right mess though.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ +mostly
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ For instance, _coming up_ with the Bepicolombo assist sequence would likely be a nightmare in RSS+Principia. To execute it once you know it you can use the planner as it is, sure. But to find it? good luck.
<queqiao->
⟨Zavian⟩ How did Reach plan that flyby? In game, or with KSPTOT? Or maybe with another tool? (KSPTOT theoretically would allow optimising for optimal flybys. And has an upload manuever tool. But I have no idea whether it works with principia.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ ⟪egg⟫ For instance, *coming up* with the […] ⮪ what matters most to bepicolombo is ion burn capability. but not that point we talk now, for bepicolombo ex
<queqiao->
despite that I have heavy homework preparing for postgraduate entry exam, I use only paper and pen, meaning I have extra plenty of time to let principia to execute it in only no more than like 100x physics warp and burn all day long (I know integrate it is too hard)
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ And my bepicolombo-ex only take no more than 20 Earth days per node
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ ⟪Zavian⟫ How did Reach plan that flyby? In game, […] ⮪ He plotted for a year......
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ though not continously
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ what matters most to bepicolombo is ion […] ⮪ but re-UI to mechjeb-alike is basically UIwork (?)
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ what matters most to bepicolombo is ion burn capability. but not that point we talk now, for bepicolombo ex
<queqiao->
despite that I have heavy homework preparing for postgraduate entry exam, I use only paper and pen, meaning I have extra plenty of time to let principia to execute it in only no more than like 100x physics warp and burn all day long (I know integrate it is too hard, thanks to your kindly reminders)
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Bepicolombo is indeed a bad example because of ion propulsion. Let’s take the Parker Solar Probe, or Rosetta, or any other thing with a long chain of assists as an example, the point remains the same.
<queqiao->
Please note that I am not talking about executing, _doing_, the manœuvres. For executing missions the planner works, including for planning how to executing them, as many have said above.
<queqiao->
The difficulty is in _inventing_ the mission profile. It is there that the planner is inadequate, because picking the one theoretical thread that goes to the right place through all those assists (the one which you then want to approximate with the burns you actually execute) is difficult.
<queqiao->
⟨leudaimon⟩ egg, that would probably work better and be easier to implement outside ksp though, wouldn't it?
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ yes, usually in stock I just use MJ and 10^-8 precision to get ideal trajectory
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ +(executing only up to 10^-3 precision, though)
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ⟪leudaimon⟫ egg, that would probably work better […] ⮪ I mean, the tools certainly exist outside of KSP. But the visual and tangible aspect of the game is immensely valuable; sure you can probably start writing an optimizer and come up with a trajectory—and that’s how people do it in real life!—but, even with the extreme limits of optimization by multiple shooting (which is what this is, with manual adjustment of the...
<queqiao->
... parameters after the shooting) you have a far more accessible and appealing way to do this.
<queqiao->
After all, every tool Principia provides addresses an issue that is usually dealt with using far less visual and interactive tools in real life; but Principia-in-the-IDE and Principia-at-the-console are not what _most_ people here play :-p
<queqiao->
⟨leudaimon⟩ Definitely things should communicate with principia in ksp, just wondering if the optimization and GA finding couldn't be done independently... given it's not a problem that depends on craft state in any way. Could be done from the ground before launch, which is also an advantage for planning imo.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ ⟪egg⟫ I mean, the tools certainly exist […] ⮪ STK please 😏
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ KSP is good because interact-able
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ⟪leudaimon⟫ Definitely things should communicate […] ⮪ Yeah, this ties into the broader issue of planning pre-launch. But that issue has its own difficulties, and blocking on that may be unwise; from a parking orbit you would get a—let’s not call it a flight plan; the word _Leitfaden_ comes to mind, I like the image of picking a thread out of the bundle of possibilities, and the metaphor of Ariadne’s thread…—you...
<queqiao->
... would get a _Leitfaden_ that you have a good chance of being actually able to follow.
<queqiao->
⟨Zavian⟩ Well I would expect that typically you would want a flight plan before launch, so you launch at the right time, and into the right parking orbit.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Oh of course. And nowadays you don’t do parking orbits anyway. But one unsolved problem at a time.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ most obvious solution being use highly precise planner that enable quick solution of doing ideal trajectory *practically in KSP*
<queqiao->
I just asked Reach about how the value may be by integrating MJ-alike planner into Principia, he just said being very good
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ I have told you already, we’re interested in hearing about problems, not ideas for solutions (and the higher level the problem the more likely we are to be interested ; « coming up with gravity assists » is the interesting part here, « high precision manœuvres » was already trying to be half a solution and thus fell on deaf ears).
<queqiao->
My initial thinking is something that sits alongside the flight plan (because once you have done it, you must use imprecise manœuvres and TCMs to actually do it, and you need to see this ideal thread while planning that), which doesn’t tie into the real engines and masses (for that task they are irrelevant), and has arbitrarily refinable burn precision.
<queqiao->
Anyway. This will take time and needs to be thought about.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ ⟪egg⟫ I have told you already, we’re […] ⮪ you may be sometimes doing theoratically, instead of thinking in a view of a KSP player.
<queqiao->
If you use RO, the imprecision will be naturally introduced when executing the node, no need to deliberately make flight plan imprecise.
<queqiao->
Then just rebase and add compensative manœuvres
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ It don't need another thing alongside the flight plan, at least, from a *player*'s view I don't see the necessity
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ you may be sometimes doing theoratically, instead of thinking in a view of a KSP player.
<queqiao->
If you use RO, the imprecision will be *naturally* introduced when executing the node, no need to deliberately make flight plan imprecise.
<queqiao->
Then just rebase and add compensative manœuvres
<queqiao->
⟨leudaimon⟩ That's pretty agreesive
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ I'm also accepting naturally introduced errors, but this don't conflict with extra high precision planning
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Well, you don’t see the necessity, but I do :-)
<queqiao->
When you do your rebasing, you lose your plan for your gravity assists, and you have to find it all again. Marking this long-term goal is important, so as not to lose your hours of work every time.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ (and it is quite possible that the real trajectory will have many more burns than the theoretical one, that need to be planned individually, to get back on track. This needs to be experimented with.)
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ ⟪egg⟫ Well, you don’t see the necessity, but […] ⮪ this can be solved *practically*.
<queqiao->
for example, a Earth-Venus-Venus-Mercury assist, you record the V-V orbit periapsis being 75760Mm(just "example", the number is only for a stub).
<queqiao->
And after executing at E-V part, it turned out to be 75871Mm
<queqiao->
after rebase, just remember the 75760Mm periapsis you need to be, then add a node in HCI and monitor the trajectory in VCI, then execute the compensation burn.
<queqiao->
Remember the charasteristics of the orbit info lost in rebasing and you'll be fine.
<queqiao->
⟨leudaimon⟩ you are looking for hacks, egg is looking for elegant, intuitive solutions...
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Yes, you can remember things. You can also optimize in STK and remember what came out of the optimizer. But we can also come up with something convenient, after all, was the goal not to improve convenience?
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ however I'm advising in the identity of a Player
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ And, as leudaimon points out, we are never, and will never be, interested in quick-and-easy-and-dirty solutions. If it is worth doing, it is worth doing well.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ * *player*
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ⟪Kerbinator⟫ however I'm advising in the identity of […] ⮪ And we will always ignore such advice, because we care about problems, not ideas for solutions.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ so what's actually amount of coding needed for the UI rework? anything more than burn_editor.cs and differential_slider.cs?
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ this can be solved **practically**. for […] ⮪ if you want summary of your GA route, then just record seperately in history of whether a numeric point is in burn or not. Then mark the burn in history as somthing like orange color
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ so what's actually amount of coding […] ⮪ or if you really don't want to remove the slider style, add a button for switching (or "dedicated" old-style principia stubborners).
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ * (for
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ Oh, egg, I suggest you to open QQ and go to reachstar's chat for suggestions
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ +(you have admin perm, you can add a "pinned message" as 公告 in QQ groupchat)
<queqiao->
⟨leudaimon⟩ I think egg has told you at least a half dozen times he is not interested in implementation suggestions
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ the problem is because of practical uses
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ which I can immediately throw into practise
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ when I told reach that you guys are actually not implementing MJ-style sliders but trying to make "what you think not elegent" he was also 😒
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ (and he has been one of the greatest Chinese KSP-RO players)
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ he's standing on my side, without doubt and firmly
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ I don't have much programming power, otherwise I would have done it immediately. (and idk whether I can find appropriate programmers)
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ +I only have one Xamarin studio, under blackrack's suggestion, to help me remove version lock of scatterer
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ No-one is saying that Reach is not a great player, indeed he is one of the greatest KSP-RO players worldwide, not just in China.
<queqiao->
Also, I _am_ logged in to QQ, if Reach wants to talk to me he can; those games of telephone are highly inefficient.
<queqiao->
But to know the practical issues of a something that hasn’t been designed yet would take supernatural powers beyond even Reach’s.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ actually the entire 2-hour discussion is not for a thing that is not designed
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ the only purpose is implementing MJ-style high precision editor, and let the executing error naturally occur
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ It is a serious mistake to be divorced from reality and the needs of the players.
<queqiao->
You will realize this sooner or later.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ +(completely)
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ as for ion intergration, I give up, knowing this being incredibly hard
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ * hard, as this have something to do with core
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ And what's more, the suggestion is not malicious anyway.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ⟪Kerbinator⟫ It is a serious mistake to be […] ⮪ I evidently have not done so after more than eight years of this, so I’m afraid your hopes are too high!
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ what too high
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ I'll tell you how to use in the next demonstrated video as soon as I finish final exam recently
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ I'll tell you how to use in the next […] ⮪ it's after 6 months of hard training for me to master basic GA plotting skill.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ for pre-made windows
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ I'm only begging for changing the burn editor style for once, and just try it for 1 month (there are a week before next release)
<queqiao->
if people say bad of it, delete it.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ +If most player appreciate it, I'll tell Reach and the entire groupchat the good news.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ it's after 6 months of hard training for me to master basic GA plotting skill.
<queqiao->
(only for infinite precision planning + correction post-burning)
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ At last, I want to say, the high hopes is truly because, egg, you are absolutely excellent, and so do principia. What I hope is it to be even easier to use, which is surely benificial
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ I'm fine with the current burn editor. 🤷♂️
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ I think it's not enough, and it's not coreworks so won't be too hard if everything goes well
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ +I said I'd already gave up ion things, that can be say my hopes is too high, I commit.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ * admit.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ +(and I know persuading is hard. But the benifit match me so much up to months of training, so I'm determined.)
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ I think it's not enough, and it's not coreworks so won't be too hard if everything goes well
<queqiao->
I said I'd already gave up ion things, that can be say my hopes is too high, I admit.
<queqiao->
(and I know persuading is hard. But the benefit match me so much up to months of training, because of high value that make me determined
<queqiao->
Also be frustrated 3 hours ago that I got stuck when adjusting a Venus assist when I'm teaching a KSP student of mine for EVM routing at 2029.8.3.)
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ (did the web stucked?)
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ I only found "egg is typing" but nothing show up
<queqiao->
anyway, hoping to see it, even only experimentally, at 2022.6.29.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ +it's already 0:35 am here.
<queqiao->
⟨Kerbinator⟩ * at my place.
<queqiao->
⟨Zeusbeer⟩ So many UI suggestions
<queqiao->
⟨Zeusbeer⟩ But nobody suggesting a close window button 🗿
<queqiao->
⟨Zeusbeer⟩ Anyway I will stop here wrath of egg is coming
<queqiao->
⟨sichelgaita⟩ As for the 🌚 , I for one am more interested in helping the poor saps whose save gets botched on their way to Mars.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Cross-posting a reply from QQ:
<queqiao->
> 引力弹弓一般都是至少两轮规划
<queqiao->
> […]
<queqiao->
> 但是KSP里面，你只有一轮规划的机会。See, this is where we disagree; we do not have to limit ourselves to this single-plan model.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ ⟪Zeusbeer⟫ But nobody suggesting a close window […] ⮪ You were saying ?
<queqiao->
⟨lpg⟩ you're going to get kerbinator's hopes up again
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Clearly this shows the way to get features is to not suggest them.
<raptop>
The best way to get a new feature is to write it, and submit a pull request, right?
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Unless it is trivial or you really know what you are doing (and even then some coordination is necessary!), probably not, because then it will get shot down in flames in review.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ (This has, of course, happened before.)