02:16 <queqiao-> ⟨patrikcath⟩ ⟪egg⟫ There is no problem with a tiny […] ⮪ huh, out of curiosity why would that make the lagrange points unstable?

02:35 <queqiao-> ⟨Bee Rights Activist⟩ maybe orbital mechanics models everything as point masses, but the lagrange points are inside the surface of ike

02:35 <queqiao-> ⟨Bee Rights Activist⟩ probably wrong

02:36 <queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ very wrong indeed.

02:41 <queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ See for instance https://jfuchs.hotell.kau.se/kurs/amek/prst/15_lapo.pdf p. 14.

02:44 <raptop> "The L4 and L5 points are stable provided that the mass of the primary body (e.g. the Earth) is at least 25[note 1] times the mass of the secondary body"

02:44 <raptop> (Duna is ~16.2x the mass of Ike)

02:47 <queqiao-> ⟨Zavian⟩ ⟪egg⟫ very wrong indeed. ⮪ And that doesn't explain to me why L4 and L5 are unstable. (I accept that it derives requirements for stability, but my maths isn't good enough to understand _why_ the mass of Ike means the Duna L4 and L5 points aren't stable).

02:48 <queqiao-> ⟨Sky 🐈⬛⟩ Lagrange points are actually just where the cat-gods spin their forks to catch noodles, when they are unstable that means the cat gods are being particularly rambunctious today.

02:48 <queqiao-> ⟨Sky 🐈⬛⟩ https://tenor.com/view/kittycass-peachcat-eat-noodles-gif-15943254

02:48 <queqiao-> ⟨Sky 🐈⬛⟩ Lagrange points are actually just where the cat-gods spin their forks to catch noodles, when they are unstable that means the cat-gods are being particularly rambunctious today.

02:49 <queqiao-> ⟨Sky 🐈⬛⟩ Lagrange points are actually just where the cat-gods spin their utensils to catch noodles, when they are unstable that means the cat-gods are being particularly rambunctious today.

02:53 <queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ (rule 3, but https://tenor.com/view/kittycass-peachcat-eat-noodles-gif-15943254 for those who may want to look at the oddly on-topic gif.)

03:06 <queqiao-> ⟨Marsh⟩ That would make a good emoji

05:53 <queqiao-> ⟨pEdro⟩ ⟪Zavian⟫ And that doesn't explain to me why L4 […] ⮪ if im seeing this right, its because at a higher mass ratio, L4/L5 gets sort of "steeper", less stable

05:54 <queqiao-> ⟨pEdro⟩ untill, like L1-3, at mass ratio > 25, the corrective forces are overpowered by that higher drift rate

06:06 <queqiao-> ⟨kingparity⟩ is there another easy-ish way to get to the lagrange points outside of using the reference frame that fixes the barycenter of the minor planet? really only works well on minmus & mun since they’re tidally locked

06:43 <queqiao-> ⟨pEdro⟩ ⟪kingparity⟫ is there another easy-ish way to get to […] ⮪ L4/L5 is just 60° ahead or behind of the minor body.

06:43 <queqiao-> L2 is 180° ahead of the minor body, L1/3 i currently dont know, but there should be a formula to work out where it is for every body

06:48 <raptop> Not exactly. L1 is in between, L2 is on the 'outside' of the minor body, L3 is 180°. Radial distances are here: °

06:48 <raptop> er

06:48 <raptop> here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrange_point#Physical_and_mathematical_details

06:51 <queqiao-> ⟨kingparity⟩ i know where they are, for tidally locked minor bodies like mun & minmus you can set the reference frame to lock onto them and use that to aim easily, but when they aren’t tidally locked idk how to do it

06:54 <queqiao-> ⟨pEdro⟩ ⟪raptop⟫ Not exactly. L1 is in between, L2 is on […] ⮪ i always mix up L1-3

06:54 <queqiao-> ⟨pEdro⟩ distance to the minor body is needed for L1 and L2

14:05 <queqiao-> ⟨patrikcath⟩ ⟪raptop⟫ "The L4 and L5 points are stable […] ⮪ well I assume it's because of some fancy orbital mechanics that I lack the degrees to understand

15:45 <queqiao-> ⟨Damien⟩ ⟪patrikcath⟫ well I assume it's because of some […] ⮪ the 'explain like I'm 5' version is that L1-L3 are like hills you can balance on top of but can roll off easily. L4-L5 are like bowls that you always roll back into unless you go so far away you go over the side

15:46 <queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ ⟪Damien⟫ the 'explain like I'm 5' version is […] ⮪ the fun thing being that in terms of the potential, 4 and 5 are hilltops (and 123 saddles).

15:46 <queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Of course the potential is not the complete picture, because the Coriolis force exists.

15:46 <queqiao-> ⟨Damien⟩ oh look it's that TV static again 😛

15:47 <queqiao-> ⟨patrikcath⟩ ⟪Damien⟫ the 'explain like I'm 5' version is […] ⮪ Oh yeah I know that, L4 and L5 are mostly stable while L1-L3 aren't, I just don't know why you specifically need a small enough orbiting body or else L4 and L5 become unstable too

15:48 <queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ See for instance https://jfuchs.hotell.k[…] ⮪ this has a derivation of that result.