egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
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<queqiao-> ⟨goblitto⟩ wait until you put a satelitte on LLO that is not a frozen orbit
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account9540⟩ it's better not to keep stuff on low orbits for 3 years... performance can suffer (I know it was much improved but still)
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ If there is an actual performance problem, we would like to hear about it. _Looking_ at these orbits far into the past might be slow, but just having them around should really not be a problem anymore.
<queqiao-> ⟨siimav⟩ I probably asked this before but can't really recall the answer. Have you considered adding a debug GUI that reports the per-frame costs of doing various Principia Things? Just like RA has one.
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Many things aren’t per-frame (if it’s costly, we try to make it asynchronous), and even for those things that are, the costly parts are very far down our C++ libraries, so that would probably be much messier to implement than you think.
<queqiao-> ⟨siimav⟩ That's true but would it be possible to report only the C#-side and only if it stalls the main thread?
<queqiao-> ⟨egg⟩ Possibly. Not sure whether that would be useful (if you spend time in one of the big things like FreeVesselsAndPartsAndCollectPileUps or AdvanceTime or CatchUpLaggingVessels, that doesn’t exactly narrow it down). It might make it easier to discriminate between drawing the noodles and the rest, and within that, between asking Prinicpia for the noodles and asking Unity to draw them.
<queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ 99% of my performance problems are better time warp resetting my max time warp to 6 million times
<queqiao-> And not knowing I can turn off unpinned celestials when planning which takes me from 3fps to 60
<queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ My lunar orbiters were placed into whatever orbit I could get as they were unguided 😂
<queqiao-> I plan on sending 3 more for communications with the far side soon, I clear out my junk every now and again but I have like 20 things in orbit and there is only fps drops when planning in map mode
<queqiao-> With plans going if I’m looking at my craft and not the map fps is perfect
<queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ My lunar orbiters were placed into whatever orbit I could get as they were unguided 😂
<queqiao-> One of them dropped like 100km in a month then just kinda stopped 😉
<queqiao-> I plan on sending 3 more for communications with the far side soon, I clear out my junk every now and again but I have like 20 things in orbit and there is only fps drops when planning in map mode
<queqiao-> With plans going if I’m looking at my craft and not the map fps is perfect
<queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ * 🤷‍♂️
<queqiao-> ⟨qazerowl⟩ Time Control > Better Time Warp
<queqiao-> ⟨sichelgaita⟩ Also, it's boring. We don't do the boring stuff.
<queqiao-> ⟨mad_hazelnut⟩ Would Principia be the one to blame for my [first] sat to stop spinning after I reload the save? (The game was saved already with Principia, but Principia was added after the career was created).
<queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ i doubt persistant rotation will be handed over to the new system, why would you go back to a satellite after you've already set it up and got the panels giving what you want?
<queqiao-> ⟨mad_hazelnut⟩ The "why" aside, I'm not sure I understood what you mean by "persistent rotation". Is what I've experienced a bug, or is it owrking as intended, I guess, would be my question.
<queqiao-> ⟨mad_hazelnut⟩ * rotation" (and "new system").
<queqiao-> ⟨mad_hazelnut⟩ Because it definitely felt like a bug. A vessel taht was rotating a few hours ago, no longer does so.
<queqiao-> ⟨butcher6994⟩ Principia won't have a concept of the sat rotating when added to a save
<queqiao-> ⟨mad_hazelnut⟩ * that
<queqiao-> ⟨butcher6994⟩ So it's working as intended in that aspect.
<queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ If you launched a satelite in normal RP-1 then RP-1 gave it persistent rotation
<queqiao-> when you swapped over RP-1s persistent rotation turns off
<queqiao-> I don't load or go to satelites that are already in orbit unless i absolutely have to so i wouldn't notice
<queqiao-> i suspect when you add principia RP-1 doesn't give it the rotation values so it is no longer spinning
<queqiao-> ⟨mad_hazelnut⟩ > Principia won't have a concept of the sat rotating when added to a saveSo that would be a consequence of the fact taht the mod was added to an existing save?
<queqiao-> ⟨butcher6994⟩ Yes
<queqiao-> ⟨mad_hazelnut⟩ * that
<queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ +(automatically)
<queqiao-> ⟨mad_hazelnut⟩ And my "usual" vessels would preserve the normal rotation, though?
<queqiao-> ⟨butcher6994⟩ There's going to be a certain amount of discontinuity between pre-Principia state and post-
<queqiao-> ⟨mad_hazelnut⟩ +(created from now on)
<queqiao-> ⟨butcher6994⟩ Yes, once Principia is installed things should remain consistent, including rotation
<queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ from now on principia will handle persistant rotation so they should stay rotating, yes
<queqiao-> it's slightly better than the RP-1 version im
<queqiao-> ⟨mad_hazelnut⟩ Great. That works for me. Thanks guys!
<queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ * imo
<queqiao-> ⟨butcher6994⟩ At least part of this is because stock is hacky af and just kills rotation on warp or unload
<queqiao-> ⟨mad_hazelnut⟩ oh!
<queqiao-> ⟨butcher6994⟩ Not that Principia pays much attention to stock rotation as it's known to be incorrect
<queqiao-> ⟨mad_hazelnut⟩ so the previous problems I used to have with probes sun orientation getting all messed up will be better now?
<queqiao-> ⟨mad_hazelnut⟩ or worse? :))))
<queqiao-> ⟨butcher6994⟩ Should be
<queqiao-> ⟨butcher6994⟩ Rotation should be physically correct, though that's not always intuitive
<queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ sun orientation probes won't stay pointed at the sun because they shouldn't
<queqiao-> if you spin stabalise pointing at the sun and go 1/2 an orbit around you will then be pointing directly away from it, that's how rotation works irl
<queqiao-> ⟨mad_hazelnut⟩ well, yes, that's intuitive enough. Provided you meant a planet orbit.
<queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ any orbit, including around the sun
<queqiao-> ⟨butcher6994⟩ See also https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis_racket_theorem
<queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ spin stabilisation "locks" your orientation according to "the universe" not to the sun, so if you are in an orbit around the sun and spin stabalise 1/2 an orbit later you will be pointing away from it
<queqiao-> ⟨mad_hazelnut⟩ yes, that's expected. I was talking about substantially smaller scale deviations, than 1/2 of an orbit.
<queqiao-> ⟨mad_hazelnut⟩ * orientation deviations during substantially smaller scale timeframes,
<queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ i've never experienced that personally, unless you are pointing at the sun and clikcing "kill rotation" in mechjeb
<queqiao-> that isn't perfect and will eventually drift over time
<queqiao-> spinning long thin stages is also unstable etc.
<queqiao-> the effect butcher linked is also an issue
<queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ principia orientation drifts a LOT more than RP-1 in my experience so far
<queqiao-> you need to be much more careful with rotation
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account9540⟩ One difference that is easy to feel is that stock system somehow fully stabilizes craft that has low rotation rates, Principia doesn't do that, so it's harder to keep the same orientation in general
<queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ telling mechjeb to complete a manuvre shows that greatly, it will warp to 10mins before, point at the node, decide it's stopped warp till 7mins before because its drifted, fix itself, warp till 5mins before, fix itself because it's drifted etc.
<queqiao-> ⟨mad_hazelnut⟩ So, perhaps, not really a #principia thread, but what are your thoughts about the early Polar Obit mission in career in regards to the fact that, although technically I can do it in 1958, I can't possibly think of a way to do it "safe" for the civilians in South Carolina, which, would defintely experience some booster remains over their heads?
<queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ can't you just launch south?
<queqiao-> ⟨test_account9540⟩ definitely drifts off topic for principia
<queqiao-> ⟨mad_hazelnut⟩ The mission has inclination requirements: 85-95 degs
<queqiao-> ⟨mad_hazelnut⟩ guilty!
<queqiao-> ⟨mad_hazelnut⟩ Forwarded to rp1-general, Josh 🙂
<_whitenotifier-3bb6> [OSACA] pleroy closed pull request #10: Support for detecting the IACA markers in the parsed code - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/OSACA/pull/10
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<queqiao-> ⟨kaborl⟩ Heya, I've been trying to complete the Lunar Impactor contracts without success. The Altitude restriction is never met for some reason. I've tried like 5 if not more in different locations of the moon, no warping and none worked. I'm also using the cheats to close the contract.
<queqiao-> I'm using RSS-Origin.
<queqiao-> Cheers.
<queqiao-> ⟨kaborl⟩ * times, if not more, in different locations of the moon, no warping and none worked. I'm also using the cheats to close the contract for now.
<queqiao-> ⟨kaborl⟩ * RSS-Reborn.