#principia on 2024-11-16 — irc logs at esper.irclog.whitequark.org

2021-03-08 20:27 egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…

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03:13 <queqiao-> ⟨clayel⟩ principia rips out the beating heart of ksp's physics and replaces it with 2 mechanical hearts

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04:12 <queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ I would argue Principia rips out ksps mechanical heart and puts in a real one 😂

04:12 <queqiao-> Sure it might not be perfect but it’s got more soul

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10:45 <queqiao-> ⟨ezsnack⟩ most of the time i try to start a sim in a future date with principia it crashes while "warping" to the future

10:49 <queqiao-> ⟨coelhomatias⟩ hey guys, I am planning on starting a new playthrough and was considering principia. From what I remember playing with principia, having a satellite constellation was super hard since after some time the satellites would be out of place in the constellation due to reasons beyond my comprehension, and this was because of principia. I never got past the moon so idk if relay satellites and constellations will be useful after...

10:49 <queqiao-> ... that. Do you think this issue is not very concerning and playing with principia is still better? As I said, I played with principia before and really enjoyed it, except for the constellation part

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10:54 <queqiao-> ⟨ezsnack⟩ https://matrix.mockingbirdnest.com/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.mockingbirdnest.com/CXvEzxJIoGAptCxbxNsiaiGL/FATAL.20241116-114242.8920.log

10:58 <queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ Orbits in principia are unstable just like real life, you need to perform "station keeping" to keep satellites in exact orbits

10:58 <queqiao-> if you are playing RP-1 it's less of an issue since they are stable over years but in a KSP without build times etc. then people tend to time warp a lot which causes them to drift faster per in-game hour played

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10:59 <queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ +(generally)

10:59 <queqiao-> ⟨coelhomatias⟩ I remember that warping a few months was enough for the satellites to go out of place

11:00 <queqiao-> ⟨coelhomatias⟩ and station keeping is ok when working with stations, but I don't want to keep doing that in a constellation with more than 3 satellites

11:01 <queqiao-> ⟨coelhomatias⟩ what I was wondering is if the constellations will be useful when going to farther planets or if you do one for a mission and never have to do it again

11:02 <queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ if you define "out of place" as a few km or a couple of degrees in an orbit then yes its a few months

11:02 <queqiao-> when i say stable over years i mean like 3-4 years in a stable orbit and their orbits will resemble their original orbits

11:03 <queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ It depends highly on what orbits you put them in, if you put a satelite into a 30km lunar orbit it's going to hit the moon in like 10 days

11:03 <queqiao-> a 300km circular orbit will have a 500x100 orbit after a year at a stable inclination

11:04 <queqiao-> ⟨coelhomatias⟩ The orbits stay almost the same, the biggest problem from what I remember is their phase. instead of having maybe 3 satellites drawing a trinagle, after just a few months or maybe less they would be all bunched up or something. The angle between them would change a lot

11:05 <queqiao-> ⟨coelhomatias⟩ I guess it is because of the orbital period, but I remember trying to equal them to the max I could and still having that problem

11:06 <queqiao-> ⟨Joshua Wood⟩ i don't know what sort of orbits they were in, how accurate they were etc. but sounds pretty normal for whenever i make a constellation vanilla or principia lol

11:07 <queqiao-> ⟨coelhomatias⟩ maybe I am wrong but for some reason I remember not having so much problems with that in "vanilla"

11:07 <queqiao-> ⟨coelhomatias⟩ oh well, guess that settles it. principia it is

11:07 <queqiao-> ⟨ezsnack⟩ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_orbit

11:07 <queqiao-> ⟨coelhomatias⟩ thx for the help

11:09 <queqiao-> ⟨coelhomatias⟩ yes, I remember putting my satellites in frozen orbits but I guess that didn't help in the minor differences in orbital period that caused the shift in phas

11:09 <queqiao-> ⟨coelhomatias⟩ * phase

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11:17 <queqiao-> ⟨sichelgaita⟩ That's not how you report bugs, https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/blob/master/SUPPORT.md. This being said, you have a mod that's incompatible with Principia as it doesn't give a proper id to every part. You'll need to figure out which mod that is.

11:18 <queqiao-> ⟨ezsnack⟩ its a fresh express install so thats weird

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11:25 <queqiao-> ⟨butcher6994⟩ I never really made constellations in rp-1, they're not something you need for much other than contracts

11:26 <queqiao-> ⟨butcher6994⟩ A couple of geo relays for low earth comms at the stable points and something for the far side of the moon is about all that's needed.

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11:27 <_whitenotifier-bad2> [Principia] ezsnackeur opened issue #4134: Crash when starting a simulation at a future date - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/4134

11:27 <queqiao-> ⟨ezsnack⟩ this looks better?

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12:02 <_whitenotifier-bad2> [Principia] pleroy commented on issue #4134: Crash when starting a simulation at a future date - https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/4134#issuecomment-2480537600

12:02 <queqiao-> ⟨sichelgaita⟩ Yes. Blame Procedural Avionics, probably.

12:03 <queqiao-> ⟨ezsnack⟩ Lol. I swear i did this same thing without principia a million times and it was fine

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12:12 <queqiao-> ⟨sichelgaita⟩ Oh of course. KSP will paper over these bugs and do something more-or-less silly. Principia will hard crash on purpose.

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12:13 <queqiao-> ⟨siimav⟩ RP-1 does nothing to manipulate part flight IDs. I'm guessing this is your root part and it's still gonna crash if you remove avionics and use some other random part as root.

12:14 <queqiao-> ⟨ezsnack⟩ it worked 4 times out of 5

12:14 <queqiao-> ⟨ezsnack⟩ * 1 time

12:14 <queqiao-> ⟨ezsnack⟩ correction xd

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12:21 <queqiao-> ⟨butcher6994⟩ _Claim fixed_

12:22 <queqiao-> ⟨ezsnack⟩ more context, it appears that if i start the sim on earth ground it doesnt crash, it only crashes if it start it in venus orbit

12:22 <queqiao-> ⟨sichelgaita⟩ Yeah, I imagine that if vanilla RP-1 had this problem we would have heard about it. The last time we saw a problem like that the user was using Extraplanetary Launchpads.

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12:24 <queqiao-> ⟨ezsnack⟩ * i

12:25 <queqiao-> ⟨ezsnack⟩ "I1116 13:21:43.663988 12132 vessel.cpp:121] Adding part proceduralAvionics (00000000) to vessel venus cookies (45745921-c77a-416c-b138-940a21c593d9)"

12:25 <queqiao-> the problem is the same again

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12:50 <queqiao-> ⟨ezsnack⟩ i tried with a craft made of a single tank part and it worked

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13:30 <queqiao-> ⟨siimav⟩ What about a craft made of single avionics?

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18:31 <queqiao-> ⟨ezsnack⟩ sorry for the delayed reply, single avionics all worked, i tested different types and even the one that is the root of my craft with everything else removed but they all work 🤔

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18:48 <queqiao-> ⟨siimav⟩ Fun!

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