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egg is now known as egg|zzz|egg
Snoozee is now known as Majiir
<egg|zzz|egg> o/ Majiir
<Majiir> \o Soozegg
<egg|zzz|egg> wait wasn't I supposed to be asleep
<Majiir> > zzz egg
<Soozee> True
<egg|zzz|egg> Majiir: how is the understanding of integrators going
<Majiir> Seems so
<Majiir> I haven't given it much thought lately
<Majiir> I am borked by work
* egg|zzz|egg slaps Majiir's work with the output of Qboid
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn
* Qboid gives egg|zzz|egg a short † with a catenoid attachment
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<egg|zzz|egg> hmm, is the guard shaped like a catenoid?
<egg|zzz|egg> who knows
<egg|zzz|egg> also I'll try zzzing
<egg|zzz|egg> it will fail
<Majiir> Godspeed
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<UmbralRaptor> Has anyone tried to measure <egg|zzz|egg>? I'm curious as to what it actually evaluates to, and if it's above or below 0.5
<SnoopJeDi> I have enough log data accumulated that I could take a stab at it
<Majiir> :t egg
<Soozee> t
<Majiir> :t zzz
<Soozee> t -> Bool
<Majiir> Egg can be any type!
<Majiir> egg could even be the type of zzz
<Majiir> > zzz zzz
<Soozee> True
<SnoopJeDi> so what you're saying is that egg is eggcentric?
<Majiir> And also generegg
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* egg|phone|egg wonders what flavour of quark whitequark is
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<GreeningGalaxy> mh, I need to move into that new hard drive already
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<GreeningGalaxy> I have a 160 GB now, and bought an upgrade to 750 GB in Shenzhen, but still haven't switched because I don't have a good way of transferring all my data.
<GreeningGalaxy> I also want to make some changes to my system (switch from ext4 to btfrs, mainly) while I'm at it, which... I don't really know how to do easily
<GreeningGalaxy> oh, I lied about not having a good way of transferring data, I have a 320 GB USB hard disk.
<GreeningGalaxy> so I just need to move my /home and /etc over there, record a list of all the packages I have installed, and then just run the installer on the new drive.
<GreeningGalaxy> maybe I should yoink the terabyte drive out of my terrible HP laptop that I never use and put the 750 GB drive over there.
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diodelass is now known as Yxala
<whitequark> GreeningGalaxy: ooh were you in SZ?
<whitequark> that's just over the border from here :]
<Yxala> oh yeah, you're in HK aren't you
<Yxala> I was there briefly too
<whitequark> yup
<whitequark> still don't have a mainland visa though
<GreeningGalaxy> darn
<GreeningGalaxy> I liked HK a lot. I love how much the elevation changes when you go everywhere.
<whitequark> I like how public transport runs on time and doesn't feel like you're stuffed into a sardine can put in a fire
<whitequark> ~priorities~
<GreeningGalaxy> that's a good thing too
<whitequark> the elevation changes become less great when you need to walk like 30m up and down to get to the office
<whitequark> (ours is at yau tong mtr)
<GreeningGalaxy> all the trains I went on in China and HK were, like, actually functional. This was markedly different than the ones in Chicago, which are very often not.
<whitequark> yes. the state of american public transit is regretful.
<whitequark> hell, not just public transit.
<GreeningGalaxy> "We apologize for the significant delay. To make it up to you, the next train will run express past this stop, so you'll have to wait even longer. The next train after that will stop here, but then run express beyond where you need to get off."
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<whitequark> suddenly I'm glad I didn't take that much of it when I was in Chicago.
<GreeningGalaxy> "now that you're finally on the train, we are going to go through 3 different construction zones between here and where you want to go, so you should expect an average speed of about 1 meter per second"
<GreeningGalaxy> the problem is that the system is getting really old now, and since the ~wonderful~ free market economy decided to privatize it, the train system is in the hands of a broke and incompetent company that gets government assistance to keep from shutting down instead of just being managed by the government directly
<whitequark> HK's trains are privatized.
<GreeningGalaxy> oh really? I didn't know that
<whitequark> and instead of getting government assistance, MTR is *fined* for every delay over a certain time.
<GreeningGalaxy> interesting
<whitequark> I think they had over 99.8% of trains on time in '16 or something like that.
<whitequark> it's also wildly profitable.
<GreeningGalaxy> yeah, I don't know how the CTA managed to make their train system so unprofitable, but they apparently did.
<whitequark> (although that latter part is largely attributed to MTR being a property developer about as much as a transportation company)
<GreeningGalaxy> ah
<whitequark> every time they build a station they buy a humongous amount of land, and then rent malls built on that land
<whitequark> and there's a bunch of residential complexes, e.g. LOHAS Park, built entirely by MTR.
<whitequark> I can't say I'm opposed to this approach
<whitequark> also, MTR runs some rail in Sweden (https://mtrexpress.se/en, even the logo is same!) and iirc parts of London Underground
<whitequark> which are presumably the parts that work well.
<whitequark> aha, Stockholm Metro as well, and Elizabeth Line in London.
<GreeningGalaxy> huh. I'd always seen the CTA as a shining example of why public transit would work better as a government-operated thing, but maybe it's just particular factors specific to this instance that got it where it is now.
<whitequark> I don't see it as a public vs private thing much. Moscow Metro is government-operated but in a serious state of disarray
<GreeningGalaxy> maybe if they fail hard enough we can oust them and get the MTR to set up a branch here.
<whitequark> I'd move to an island managed completely by MTR, probably.
<whitequark> or looking at how it goes, it'd probably be MTR plus The Dairy Farm Company :P
<GreeningGalaxy> I still have a token from the Shenzhen metro. My dad got stuck and it wouldn't let him out, so he just jumped the turnstile and nobody noticed (or if they did, they didn't care; we never got hassled) and as a result held onto the normally-reclaimed token.
<GreeningGalaxy> I wish I'd had a better sense going in what the Shenzhen tech market was going to be like. I toyed with the idea of preparing a list of part numbers of ICs and such to look for, but figured I wouldn't be able to find something that specific - I was wrong.
<GreeningGalaxy> My family was too impatient to shop power transistors or ICs, but I did get some cool LEDs and a nifty push-button.
<whitequark> what's it like?
<GreeningGalaxy> I think the general idea is that any given factory has a stall representing it, but it could easily be more complicated. Basically, there are small (e.g. 3-5 square meters or so) stalls that all specialize in one particular kind of part. One will sell only push-buttons, one will sell SOICs, another pins and terminals and such...
<GreeningGalaxy> there's a big range of levels of assembly too. You can buy individual discrete semiconductors, assembled modules for particular purposes, all the way up to fully-assembled products in boxes.
<whitequark> SOICs?
<whitequark> that's a really weird specialization
<whitequark> like selling animals drawn with a camel hair brush
<GreeningGalaxy> I didn't have time to wait for my slow internet to look up the part numbers, it's quite possible they were all related in functionality, but they were all SOICs and had a wide range of different numbers of pins.
<GreeningGalaxy> There were at least three whole floors that were just LEDs, some indicators but mostly lighting. Everything from the bare COB LED chips and individual radial through-hole LEDs, various types of light bulbs and tapes, all the way up to fully-assembled street lamp heads.
<GreeningGalaxy> three whole floors of one building, I mean. There were a lot of buildings. That one was one of the largest, and had the most flashy doodads for my family to look at. (If I'd been there alone, I certainly would have spent more time looking at ICs - I'm sure I could've gotten some very nifty parts for dirt cheap.)
<GreeningGalaxy> oh well. I'll be back someday.
<GreeningGalaxy> ugh. my HP has four different operating systems on it and all of them are broken.
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<egg|phone|egg> Moo
<whitequark> !wpn egg|phone|egg
* Qboid gives egg|phone|egg an octopole decagon
<whitequark> !wpn
* Qboid gives whitequark a geobukseon
<whitequark> a what
<egg|phone|egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a barred spiral induction
<whitequark> >large Korean warship
<egg|phone|egg> Yup
<whitequark> who here is a fan of korean history
<whitequark> show yourself coward
<egg|phone|egg> Majiir is a fan of Korea
<egg|phone|egg> I like Byzantine and Venetian history
<kmath_> <scanlime> such good at computers, so long as they have the warms https://t.co/deqs9Hfvsu
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: so, looking at your twitter I see 東方; I know that second character, it's pronouced like the one in my name in viet (though the one in my name has a radical atop it). The first one is apparently pronounced like the currency of viet nam. It's funny how the japanese pronounciation differs O_o đồng phương vs. touhou
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<egg|zzz|egg> I hate garbage-collected languages
<egg|zzz|egg> (also I hate crappy garbage collectors)
<bofh> egg|zzz|egg: heh. I like how that's where you recognise it from and not the actual games themselves :P
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: I mean, the game is crappily written, but the game engine devs have more nuisance power than the game devs, and the runtime devs even more, and they don't get more competent in proportion
<bofh> in a stunning plot twist today I didn't spill any coffee, but did manage to inhale a bit of it
<bofh> coffee in your sinuses fucking hurts
<bofh> egg|zzz|egg: err...? the games are all written by one person...
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: ?
<bofh> so the game, engine and runtime dev for all of the touhou series of games is the same person...
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: ah but I'm not talking about touhou (I don't know anything about that to be honest, aside from the fact that whitequark likes the music). I'm talking about KSP
<bofh> oh. okay, agreed with you on KSP.
<egg|zzz|egg> whose engine is Unity, whose runtime is crappy old Mono
<egg|zzz|egg> also I'm looking at my profiling and ~nothing makes sense~ aaaa
<bofh> I'm confused what you thought I was talking about then though
<bofh> 13:32 <@bofh> egg|zzz|egg: heh. I like how that's where you recognise it from and not the actual games themselves :P
<bofh> "it" being
<bofh> 11:44 <@egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: so, looking at your twitter I see 東方
<egg|zzz|egg> ooh, I thought that was in response to <egg|zzz|egg> (also I hate crappy garbage collectors)
<bofh> so like recognise seems like a very odd word to use there if that's the antecedent
<bofh> :P
<egg|zzz|egg> \o/ talking at cross porpoises \o/
<bofh> (also all GCs suck IMO)
<egg|zzz|egg> that.
<egg|zzz|egg> very much.
<egg|zzz|egg> GC's are evil and should be burned in a metal-fluoride fire.
<egg|zzz|egg> s/GC's/GCs
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg meant to say: GCs are evil and should be burned in a metal-fluoride fire.
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: not to be confused with giant cave spiders of course
<egg|zzz|egg> I'm not sure which is more easily dealt with between a giant cave spider and a garbage collector
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: and of course it's a joy to profile, because the profiler tells me that I spend 15 ms assigning a 3d vector of double-precision floating point numbers (which I assume means that's when the GC decides is a good time to clean the Augean Stables)
<bofh> LOL
<bofh> what a worthless profiler
<bofh> it seriously does not explicitly delineate GC pauses from normal execution?
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: well either that or assigning three binary64 takes 15 ms?
<egg|zzz|egg> I mean, it's weird, it does have a counter for GC things, but...
* egg|zzz|egg checks decompiler output to see if the compiler did something silly
<bofh> 13:56 <@egg|zzz|egg> bofh: well either that or assigning three binary64 takes 15 ms?
<bofh> that sounds extremely implausible
<egg|zzz|egg> it does, right :-p
<egg|zzz|egg> (or does it go through a punchcard?)
<bofh> so like I'm pretty sure that would be faster
<bofh> but I never did get my UNIVAC 1100/80 emulator inside a VAX emulator to boot that UNIVAC 494 emulator so I can't confirm
<egg|zzz|egg> hmmm, actually maybe there's something I can see here
<bofh> (that reminds me, I need to get back to that at some point)
<egg|zzz|egg> aaaah I get it
<egg|zzz|egg> I did foo.GetValueOrDefault(foo = CostlyStuff())
<egg|zzz|egg> and since that's not passed by name, I get screwed :D
<bofh> yuck
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: that's hidden away in a property (to fetch the krakensbane)
<egg|zzz|egg> so it looked "elegant" when I wrote it, and invisible when I use it
<egg|zzz|egg> CMS?
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: [CMS] => Compact Muon Solenoid
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: apparently those who work on that make lots of "see a mess"-based puns
<egg|zzz|egg> so, should I eat, or is it too late for lunch
* egg|zzz|egg tends to skip lunch
* egg|zzz|egg doesn't skip all meals for 30 hours at a time though *stares at a fermion* :-p
<bofh> you mean wq?
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: yes, do we have other fermions around?
<egg|zzz|egg> also wq sounds like a vi command >_>
<egg|zzz|egg> (iirc somebody did a find for ":wq" on Google's codebase and found quite a few in comments :D)
Thomas|AWAY is now known as Thomas
<egg|zzz|egg> o/ Thomas
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn Thomas ]
* Qboid gives Thomas ] a boiled mass-driver
<egg|zzz|egg> uh
<egg|zzz|egg> well, have stray bracket too :-p
<bofh> lol
<bofh> !wpn egg|zzz|egg
* Qboid gives egg|zzz|egg a planetary pigeon
<bofh> useful
<Thomas> Qboid feature proposal: multiple explanations per acronym
<egg|zzz|egg> but how would that work?
<Thomas> Dunno, just wanted to know if you think it would be useful :D
<egg|zzz|egg> Thomas: is there a quick and easy way to move the KSC around? I might want to test whether I can make warp-to-dawn work properly (esp. with tilt, but in general it tends to break anyway :-p)
<egg|zzz|egg> Thomas: well, I'll be using Kopernicus to test a tilted system, so if it's supported the MM patch syntax would be all I need
<egg|zzz|egg> thanks!
<egg|zzz|egg> Thomas: oh hey you have your own logs too :D
<Thomas> Yes
<Thomas> But only for the loading process
<Thomas> At runtime, I use Debug.Log
<egg|zzz|egg> aha
<egg|zzz|egg> our logs are much faster than that (partly because they can be buffered), so that's really nice
<egg|zzz|egg> I mean, we can journal (and we don't buffer the journal)
<egg|zzz|egg> and there are hundreds of calls per frame to journal
<Thomas> You are also sane and not trying to avoid paying Xamarin for a new mono license
<egg|zzz|egg> Thomas: well, I'm not paying anyone, I'm using glog :-p
<egg|zzz|egg> ;rpn 90 34 -
<kmath_> egg|zzz|egg: 56.0
<Thomas> I know
<egg|zzz|egg> so, 56 degrees of axial tilt looks really weird :D
<Thomas> That was meant to be a comparison between you and Unity :D
<egg|zzz|egg> :D
<bofh> that's a lot of axial tilt
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: that makes it a good test! :D
<egg|zzz|egg> also I'm not sure how I'm going to fly to the moon with that tilt
<egg|zzz|egg> but hey
<egg|zzz|egg> a crash \o/
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<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn GreeningGalaxy
* Qboid gives GreeningGalaxy a supersaturated helicoid
<bofh> egg|zzz|egg: well hey uranus has an axial tilt of 98deg relative to the ecliptic plane so :P
<egg|zzz|egg> eggsactly
<bofh> also man literally yesterday I learned venus orbits retrograde as well
<bofh> I am a bad space enthusiast
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: well, this channel should remedy to that somewhat :-p
<egg|zzz|egg> (when we're not talking about Nomal the worried goblin that is)
<bofh> Nomal the worried goblin?
<GreeningGalaxy> wait, venus orbits retrograde? I thought it just rotated the other way.
<GreeningGalaxy> no way, I've seen too many solar system models that didn't look weird for that to be true. venus orbits the same way as everybody else, doesn't it?
<GreeningGalaxy> it just spins backwards.
<egg|zzz|egg> yeah, it spins retrograde, it orbits nomally
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: for nomal, see the gist in the /topic
<egg|zzz|egg> !u !u ?
<Qboid> U+0021 EXCLAMATION MARK (!)
<Qboid> U+0075 LATIN SMALL LETTER U (u)
<Qboid> U+0020 SPACE (␠)
<Qboid> U+1242B CUNEIFORM NUMERIC SIGN NINE SHAR2 (?)
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn Norgg
* Qboid gives Norgg a precessing sodium surjection with a /kick attachment
<Norgg> !wpn egg
* Qboid gives egg a Hermite snake with an expectation attachment
<egg|zzz|egg> Norgg: a self-adjoint snake!
<UmbralRaptor> !wpn egg|zzz|egg
* Qboid gives egg|zzz|egg a symplectic superuser
* UmbralRaptor gives the snake a dagger.
<GreeningGalaxy> !wpn ⟨egg|zzz|egg⟩
* Qboid gives ⟨egg|zzz|egg⟩ a Norman yxala
<bofh> uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh implementing J_{\nu}(z) for real \nu, complex z is such a headache.
<GreeningGalaxy> !u ν
<Qboid> U+03BD GREEK SMALL LETTER NU (ν)
<GreeningGalaxy> cool ok I can type that
<bofh> I still have a habit of typing TeX over just the unicode codepoints.
<bofh> Blame 5 years of a math degree.
<GreeningGalaxy> fair
<bofh> and, like, 'v' seems wrong to me
<bofh> despite boost::math thinking it's A-OK
* egg|zzz|egg stabs boost
<SnoopJeDi> bofh, I've grown very fond of Pandoc's ability to turn Markdown into LaTeX
<GreeningGalaxy> !u ξ
<Qboid> U+03BE GREEK SMALL LETTER XI (ξ)
<bofh> boost deserves all the stabbings IMO
<GreeningGalaxy> THAT'S what that is. My prof was pronouncing it `djai' and I was like "wat there's no greek letter zhi"
<SnoopJeDi> The first time my professor wrote ξ on the board in our vibrations class, I'd never seen it before and I thought he made up a symbol that looked like a spring
<SnoopJeDi> (he also did not draw it particularly well)
pizzaoverhead_ is now known as pizzaoverhead
<bofh> LOL
<bofh> admittedly that one's had to draw
<bofh> !u U+03B6
<Qboid> U+03B6 GREEK SMALL LETTER ZETA (ζ)
<bofh> !u U+0396
<Qboid> U+0396 GREEK CAPITAL LETTER ZETA (Ζ)
<bofh> reminds me of the time I jokingly suggested Fraktur ζ
<bofh> (good way to horrify mathematicians that use chalk exclusively)
<SnoopJeDi> bofh, he added one or two extra squiggles to it, which didn't help
<SnoopJeDi> The best symbol confusion memory was my Greek math methods prof, who drew his 'n' and 'π' pretty much identically
<egg|zzz|egg> SnoopJeDi: from my MSc. thesis https://goo.gl/photos/cBRpQ4DVmpPG9KfU9
<egg|zzz|egg> superscript + and - in a subscript
<egg|zzz|egg> I may have changed the notation since then
<SnoopJeDi> everybody needs a hobby, egg|zzz|egg :P
<egg|zzz|egg> yeah now it's just Δ 1 and 2
<egg|zzz|egg> subscript
<egg|zzz|egg> SnoopJeDi: though I do have a nice equation full of Ξ
<bofh> egg|zzz|egg: I reflexively want to stab past you for that :P
<GreeningGalaxy> my electronics prof somehow manages to make x look like n
<GreeningGalaxy> like, it's two crossed lines. it's not hard to draw an x
<GreeningGalaxy> but he had to try to draw it in one stroke and it looks like an n
<bofh> yuck
<SnoopJeDi> My notation hill to die on is getting students to pick a special value of t dammit
<SnoopJeDi> t^*, t_f, t_{Bob} ANYTHING BUT t DAMN YOU
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: GreeningGalaxy: SnoopJeDi: https://goo.gl/photos/g1rHwgjb5Z3p9yrM9
<SnoopJeDi> sanity is left as an exercise for the reader
<egg|zzz|egg> I was running out of letters
<SnoopJeDi> (make a haunt roll now / make a will save)
<egg|zzz|egg> GreeningGalaxy: I don't draw my x as two crossed lines though
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<GreeningGalaxy> SnoopJeDi: careful what you wish for, soon you'll be seeing t_accel_cart_1_i_f
<UmbralRaptor> SnoopJeDi: better than students that try to avoid scientific notation at all costs.
<SnoopJeDi> GreeningGalaxy, if it works for them idgaf
<UmbralRaptor> (once you see 10 or 20 zeroes in a row, they sort of blend together...)
<SnoopJeDi> If I can't decipher it easily, I'll just mark it as wrong (and again, idgaf)
<bofh> UmbralRaptor: ffs, people *do* that? gah
<SnoopJeDi> Personal understanding and effective communication are both their responsibility
<bofh> that's how you get order-of-magnitude errors
<GreeningGalaxy> UmbralRaptor: that's always fun. 0.00000000000124 Farads
<SnoopJeDi> UmbralRaptor, numbers don't exist
<UmbralRaptor> bofh: They do in intro classes!
<SnoopJeDi> If I were the rap-you-on-the-knuckles type, I would demolish students who calculate formulae with numerical values
<SnoopJeDi> create ? a ? symbol ?
<bofh> I don't really care about that, but I'm a numerics person myself so.
<bofh> at all about*
<bofh> wtf, keyboard/mosh/Comcast
<GreeningGalaxy> bofh: my students are the heirs apparent of order-of-magnitude errors
<SnoopJeDi> I might be able to stomach it if they ever kept units around, so that dimensional analysis was possible
<SnoopJeDi> (read as: if they were self-aware enough to know what works and what doesn't)
<bofh> oh I flat-out have marked things wrong for lacking units many times
<bofh> because, well, it kind of is wrong
<SnoopJeDi> I guess I can't blame them in a culture where engineers create units-specific formulae with magical numerical constants
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: kind of? it *is* wrong!
<GreeningGalaxy> "we got 2.194 Hz, but the oscilloscope is showing 2194 Hz, what could POSSIBLY be wrong????"
<UmbralRaptor> SnoopJeDi: That happens frustratingly often outside of engineering.
<egg|zzz|egg> gimme my one-dimensional tensors!
* SnoopJeDi ? `Bρ [T*m] = 3.3356 p [GeV/c]`
<SnoopJeDi> I really hate that one because of how useful it is
<UmbralRaptor> Bonus points for dropping some of the units, but listing what units you need in other locations.
<GreeningGalaxy> I also had a huge swath of students tell me that the quotient of two resistances somehow gave an answer in volts.
<UmbralRaptor> (points, stabbings, whatever)
<bofh> GreeningGalaxy: OH GOD
<SnoopJeDi> UmbralRaptor, justcosmologistthings.tumblr.com
<UmbralRaptor> GreeningGalaxy: AAAAAAA!
<GreeningGalaxy> some of them actually had the right number for gain, but I marked it wrong anyway for volts.
<bofh> 17:17 <@GreeningGalaxy> I also had a huge swath of students tell me that the quotient of two resistances somehow gave an answer in volts.
<SnoopJeDi> GreeningGalaxy, I've found remarkable success in explaining radians as they actually are to my students
<GreeningGalaxy> gain is not in volts!
<bofh> no, that's not how it works OH FUCKING GOD
<UmbralRaptor> SnoopJeDi: the 404 error is oddly appropriate.
<SnoopJeDi> "Look, this is a dimensionless unit, but the definition is 1 m / 1 m and that makes a lot of sense..."
<SnoopJeDi> "...but still, just write 'rad', okay? You're not clever enough to keep track in your head, and you'll screw up less"
<GreeningGalaxy> I mean at least give it to me in radians if you really want to tack a unit that doesn't make sense on there.
<bofh> LOL
<GreeningGalaxy> bah, ninjad
<SnoopJeDi> maybe our students are all just students of Aristotle
<GreeningGalaxy> fucking Aristotle man
<bofh> that's even more reason to mark them down tho
<SnoopJeDi> bofh++
<SnoopJeDi> At least they're not followers of Ptolemy?
<SnoopJeDi> (Ptolemists? Ptolemaists? Ptolemites?)
<bofh> I'd be a bit disturbed if a Ptolemawhatever managed to get into a physics class tbh
<SnoopJeDi> I particularly enjoy the fact that epicycles can be interpreted as complex Fourier series \o/
<bofh> LOL
<bofh> well like I suppose that makes sense, they're a Fourier expansion of the periodicities of the ellipse
<SnoopJeDi> "If it's stupid and it works, it's not stupid." - Ptolemy, probably
<bofh> the c0 term is the average (circular) one and each higher-order harmonic contributes an epicycle
<SnoopJeDi> hmm, I never considered it as such
<GreeningGalaxy> every time I look at plots of Fourier series following a function with a discontinuity, I go "hey, that looks like ringing on an oscilloscope!" and then remember that yes, duh, it does look exactly like that.
<UmbralRaptor> SnoopJeDi: if I ever had a student give answers to the orbital parameters labs in terms of enough epicyclces to get high precision, I'd probably feel compelled to give them an A.
<UmbralRaptor> Also overheard about a week ago "Jupiter is exponentially larger than Earth, but is ~285 times the mass really correct?"
<GreeningGalaxy> exponentially larger?
<UmbralRaptor> (Jupiter is actually ~310x the mass of Earth, but the above is only measurement error)
<UmbralRaptor> GreeningGalaxy: Their words.
<UmbralRaptor> I'm not bothered by an informal use of "exponential" for "big", but it keeps on getting applied to things that aren't that much bigger!
<Iskierka> I'd've thought 310 sounds small
<bofh> Same, honestly.
<Iskierka> guess even with metallic hydrogen density overcomes the size
<bofh> Then again I'm shocked my intuition for "Mercury is only slightly larger than the Earth's Moon" turned out to be correct"
<Iskierka> also, what if they gave epicycles that are expressed as ellipses instead of circles? *hides*
<UmbralRaptor> Oh, yeah. There were a bunch who thought Mercury was way bigger than the Moon. And had an atmosphere. >_>
<bofh> Iskierka: what would that even be, a Bessel series expansion?
<Iskierka> I think it's probably sharing its atmosphere with the sun?
<Iskierka> bofh: it'd be expressing the orbital parameters added to earth's
<UmbralRaptor> Iskierka: "surface boundary exosphere"
<Iskierka> hence *hides*
<UmbralRaptor> bofh: Bessel series are scary.
<SnoopJeDi> GreeningGalaxy, I still don't feel formally comfortable with Gibbs phenomena tbh
<SnoopJeDi> I know they're there, and I know why
<bofh> UmbralRaptor: s/scary/nasty/
<Qboid> bofh thinks UmbralRaptor meant to say: bofh: Bessel series are nasty.
<Iskierka> qboid is slow
<bofh> SnoopJeDi: Gibbs phenomena is like the one time I've ever had to use the sine integral Si(x)
<bofh> ever
<SnoopJeDi> hehe
<GreeningGalaxy> I hate this final exam schedule my uni has. It's just an opaque PHP generator script that takes a class meeting pattern and gives you a date and a time.
<GreeningGalaxy> It also has no provisions for classes with nonstandard meeting times.
<GreeningGalaxy> bofh: wait what you can just stick it with a pin and it glows??
<GreeningGalaxy> it's surprisingly bright too
<bofh> SiC is direct bandgap iirc
<GreeningGalaxy> I might need to go hassle the geology department.
<bofh> like I've done something similar with pure enough GaN
<UmbralRaptor> *_*
<bofh> though that was perceptually much less bright
<SnoopJeDi> speaking of electronics and neat stuff
<bofh> and also I don't recommend staring into UVA LEDs much
<SnoopJeDi> if you happen to like beep-boop music like I do, that's neato
<Iskierka> the cornea should filter UVA
<GreeningGalaxy> er, remind me what wavelength range UVA is?
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<Iskierka> I'm fairly sure it's the near-UV, which human eye sensors do respond to but cannot normally see due to the cornea
<GreeningGalaxy> I think the lens blocks near-UV. the cornea's pretty transparent until you start getting really short.
<bofh> GreeningGalaxy: it's primarily the lens, yes
<GreeningGalaxy> people without lenses can see down to like, what, 300 nm?
<Iskierka> it was some part of the eye that sometimes gets artificially replaced and then people can see it
<bofh> that being said people claim UVA goes up to 400nm and I can see ~390nm just fine, if very dark.
<bofh> ~375nm is where the lens LPF kicks in and I can't really see it at all anymore
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* Iskierka hasn't had sufficient experience with known or controllable emitters for any exact figures
<bofh> 17:36 <@Iskierka> it was some part of the eye that sometimes gets artificially replaced and then people can see it
<GreeningGalaxy> I have some UVA LEDs somewhere, but I can't really tell if I can see the actual UV or not because the idiot manufacturers used a fluorescent plastic for the casing.
<bofh> GreeningGalaxy: lol are you fucking shitting me
<GreeningGalaxy> all the UV LEDs you can buy at Micro Center are like that. They glow bright blue when they're on, it's stupid
<bofh> this reminds me of, so the UV LEDs I have quoted brightness values in, and I quote, exclusively mcd. for 390nm LEDs.
<bofh> this sounds okay until you realise that mcd is a perceptually-weighted metric
<UmbralRaptor> !wa 1 mcd in jansky
<Qboid> UmbralRaptor: convert 1 mcd (millicandela) to janskies: mcd (millicandelas) and Jy (janskies) are not compatible.
<UmbralRaptor> !wa 1 mcd in w/m^2
<Qboid> UmbralRaptor: convert 1 mcd (millicandela) to watts per square meter: mcd (millicandelas) and W/m^2 (watts per square meter) are not compatible.
<Iskierka> I suppose it's convenient for verification of operation without UV sensors?
<GreeningGalaxy> the best part is, no *other* LED they sell in a transparent package is fluorescent. If you shine the fluorescent UV LEDs on them, they don't glow; it's just the packages of the UV ones.
<Iskierka> though *all* is annoying
<GreeningGalaxy> probably for ~safety~
<bofh> was about to say
<bofh> since otherwise staring into UV LEDs is harmful
<Iskierka> get a knife and cut off the outer layers to see if it's a coating or something
<GreeningGalaxy> even though they also sell you IR LEDs with (obviously) none of that.
<bofh> oh on that note what the hell is it with security camera IR LEDs glowing pale orange?
<GreeningGalaxy> that always looks like a deep red to me, is that different?
<bofh> are they being overdriven, is that a secondary higher-energy transition, some daft phosphor?
<Iskierka> IR that your eye doesn't filter and is also not sensitive to so even people with lenses removed won't be aware of them
<bofh> it's only security cameras too
<bofh> like my tv-b-gone IR LEDs are totally invisible (as they fucking should be)
<bofh> and those are extremely high-brightness (half narrow-angle half wide-angle)
<GreeningGalaxy> I bet they're just being overdriven. Possibly designed to be, just to maximize brightness/cost ratio.
<bofh> it's kinda stupid too, at night I can pick out a lot of security cameras just by that alone
<bofh> (and another batch via PSU flyback whine)
<GreeningGalaxy> the security cameras in my hometown bus station have strobes on top. LOOK! CAMERA! RIGHT HERE!
<bofh> LOL
<GreeningGalaxy> I would not be even slightly surprised if they were fake cameras.
<bofh> yep
<Iskierka> paint a swastika on the lens in black paint and see if anyone ever addresses it
<Iskierka> they'll only know if they can see through it
<GreeningGalaxy> it pains me to say this, but being offended by swastikas is a remarkably partisan thing around here these days.
<Iskierka> not for offense, just cause it's something they'd definitely address but also wouldn't completely obscure it if they only checked after the footage being requested due to a crime or such
<Iskierka> is a practical design for camera disruption!
<bofh> GreeningGalaxy: don't remind me :(
<GreeningGalaxy> how about the zodiac killer sign or whatever
<SnoopJeDi> GreeningGalaxy, Baltimore does the same thing in bad neighborhoods
<Iskierka> might also work but I personally would've been totally unaware it had context
<SnoopJeDi> (those corners are allegedly the safest ones as a result)
<Iskierka> if they're safe due to fake cameras, how would they be able to check to know?
<SnoopJeDi> Err, Baltimore's cameras are real
<kmath_> <JLab_News> How do physicists celebrate #PiDay? By studying the pion, of course! https://t.co/peHGKFpRuN https://t.co/RWh3hQqJmN
<GreeningGalaxy> pions!
<SnoopJeDi> woo JLab \o/
<SnoopJeDi> Go CEBAF!
<SnoopJeDi> I think Hall C is coming back online any day now
<kmath_> <readingtheend> what breed of dog is the most quintessentially doggy? like if you had to describe the concept dog, what breed would you show an alien?
<GreeningGalaxy> black lab
<GreeningGalaxy> or any other lab really
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<egg|zzz|egg> GreeningGalaxy: I read that lab as laboratory initially >_>
<kmath_> <TmarTn> This briefcase contains very important lab results http://t.co/4WQBH4uXrH
<Iskierka> it gets annoying that wolfram can't do basic dimensional analysis to judge whether it's random guesses at bracketing are sensible
<Iskierka> "units are not compatible" DID YOU TRY PUTTING THE ONE I'M DIVIDING BY IN THE DIVISION
* SnoopJeDi squints at units mattering at all for division
<egg|zzz|egg> SnoopJeDi: well, not per se, but if the quotient is involved in something else
<SnoopJeDi> I get the feeling I'm missing some context
<egg|zzz|egg> SnoopJeDi: e.g. 1 / 50 Hz in s
<egg|zzz|egg> if you read that as (1/50) Hz in s you're going to have some trouble
<Iskierka> which wolfram does like to do
<egg|zzz|egg> !wa 1 / 50 Hz
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: 1/50 Hz (hertz): ≈ (0.00667 to ∞) × delta brain wave frequency ( 0 to 3 Hz )
<egg|zzz|egg> !wa 1 / (50 Hz)
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: 1/(50 Hz (hertz)): 0.02/Hz (reciprocal hertz)
<Iskierka> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=100+kW+*+0.6+%2F+(42000+m%2Fs)+in+N <-- specific case, try remove brackets
<Iskierka> "reciprocal hertz"
<Iskierka> wolfram, we need to have words
<egg|zzz|egg> !wa words
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: Seems that Wolfram is unable to understand that.
<GreeningGalaxy> radians per second per Hz
<SnoopJeDi> egg|zzz|egg, well that's not a units problem, that's an order of operations problem :P
<Iskierka> SnoopJeDi, and wolfram, when given an expected unit, could use dimensional analysis to test a few implicit orders of operation to see if it can find one that does work
<Iskierka> especially since it's not unlikely the unit could be associated with just the number next to it, not the whole expression next to it
<SnoopJeDi> It *could* but that could cause some seriously unexpected behavior
<SnoopJeDi> I'd rather it just force me to be explicit with parens
<egg|zzz|egg> unexpected behaviour? from W|A? shocking :-p
<egg|zzz|egg> the whole premise is that it tries to be smart
<SnoopJeDi> i n t u i t i v e
<egg|zzz|egg> if I want non-smart I use Mathematica
<Iskierka> possibly, but I'd just keep it more simple - start with attempting current behaviour, if fail, try associate units with just the number next to them until either one works or none do, then error
<egg|zzz|egg> which is typically what I want, precisely because of all that
<SnoopJeDi> it's the same engine underneath isn't it, egg|zzz|egg?
<SnoopJeDi> Or a subset, rather
<egg|zzz|egg> yeah, except W|A tries to be smart about getting what I meant, and isn't all that good at smart
<egg|zzz|egg> but it tries
<egg|zzz|egg> !wa cos^2 60 deg
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: cos^2(60)° (degrees): 15.83 mrad (milliradians)
<Iskierka> wouldn't try weird things like trying to associate smaller subsets of expressions with a unit. Either try the expression, try the number, if nothing works, error
<egg|zzz|egg> !wa cos^2 (60 deg)
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: cos^2(60° (degrees)): 0.25
<egg|zzz|egg> whereas of course the Mathematica for that would be Cos[60 Degree]^2
<Iskierka> !wa 5000 mAh * 5 V
<Qboid> Iskierka: Seems that Wolfram is unable to understand that.
<Iskierka> !wa 5000 mAh
<Qboid> Iskierka: Macmahon (MAH) | 5000 shares: Au$725.00 (Australian dollars)
<Iskierka> ^example of over-smart attempts
<SnoopJeDi> "natural" language, heh
<egg|zzz|egg> !wa +5.24807959849882354e+03 s - +5.32198550109863208e+03 s
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: +(5.24807959849882354×10^3) s - +(5.32198550109863208×10^3) s: -73.9059025998085 s
<egg|zzz|egg> weird
<whitequark> !wpn egg|zzz|egg
* Qboid gives egg|zzz|egg a postorder door with a man page attachment
<whitequark> lol
<egg|zzz|egg> so, principia Cardano kind of works, except sometimes it crashes because it fails checks in ways that puzzle me
<egg|zzz|egg> but preformance seems decent, or at least not worse than in Cantor
<egg|phone|egg> !Wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark an IEEE 754 manifold which strongly resembles a nova
<GreeningGalaxy> whitequark: http://www.elliedlight.net/LGBT.png < I came up with this a few months ago and had it printed on a shirt.
* whitequark groans
<GreeningGalaxy> he he he he
<SnoopJeDi> haha that's awesome GreeningGalaxy
* UmbralRaptor can't get the link to load.
<GreeningGalaxy> UmbralRaptor: I've showed it to you before, it's the LGBT transistor
<UmbralRaptor> Ah
<GreeningGalaxy> but weird about the link
<Iskierka> is it possibly not redirecting to 8080, as my browser says it is?
<GreeningGalaxy> oh yeah, if you're preventing it from redirecting then it won't work
<GreeningGalaxy> should go to http://elliedlight.net:8080/LGBT.png
<Iskierka> or if <location> blocks 8080 itself
<GreeningGalaxy> my uni lets 80 work locally, but prevents it from going out. I have to use something nonstandard to make it accessible from the world at large.
<Iskierka> fair nuff
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<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: http://i.imgur.com/WfmezB4.png
<egg|zzz|egg> it's still a very clumsy UI, and it still has no docking support, but it's back to being fun to toy with (I'm not sure I'd recommend career mode with it though)
<egg|zzz|egg> also right now it's crashy, but hopefully I'll manage to improve it before I realase Cardano >_>
<Iskierka> >10.2 fps
<egg|zzz|egg> Iskierka: long history to render
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: lauched equatorially from a fairly tilted Kerbin, let the mun do the plane-changing for me, with minor RCS burns at a couple of Kerbin periapsides, eventually circularized when I got close to the mun
<whitequark> damn
<whitequark> do real missions use this kind of stuff?
<whitequark> I mean in proximity to Earth
<egg|zzz|egg> are you familiar with GRAIL?
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: I mean this particular flight was seat-of-the-pants because the flight planner breaks for some reason
<egg|zzz|egg> so, no, they don't do that :-p
<egg|zzz|egg> but WSB transfers like that last item in my guide to getting to the moon with principia, sure
<whitequark> GRAIL, no
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: they do it with the Sun too; that's harder than anything I've managed to do by hand though https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6203/6133541890_2b0b150edc_b.jpg
<whitequark> >The two small spacecraft GRAIL A (Ebb) and GRAIL B (Flow)
<whitequark> oh COME ON
<egg|zzz|egg> they threw themselves into a mountain at the end
<whitequark> um
<whitequark> is that true color?
* Iskierka is fairly sure that's entirely a render?
<whitequark> then what is "observed" by LRO exactly
<Iskierka> was observed by an imaging spectrometer
<Iskierka> so is presumably simulation of what could be seen
* SnoopJeDi ? inconsistency
<SnoopJeDi> on one line: h5err = H5Block3dGetFieldSpacing(file, "Efield", &hx_m, &hy_m, &hz_m);
<SnoopJeDi> on another: h5err = H5ReadFileAttribFloat64(file, "Resonance Frequency(Hz)", &frequency_m);
<SnoopJeDi> I guess it's slightly less boilerplate since you have to read three things for x,y,z, but...
<egg|zzz|egg> Iskierka: I think the strip is what's seen?
<Iskierka> would make sense
<egg|zzz|egg> LAMP?
<egg|zzz|egg> aw, how is it not there
<egg|zzz|egg> LRO?
<egg|zzz|egg> GRAIL?
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: [GRAIL] => Gravity Recovery And Interior Laboratory
<Iskierka> although those actual impact images are ~2weeks offset since they're lit
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:LRO Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:LAMP Lyman-Alpha Mapping Project
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:LEND Lunar Exploration Neutron Detector
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:CRaTER Cosmic RAy Telescope for the Effects of Radiation
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:LOLA Lunar Orbiter Laser Altimeter
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<SnoopJeDi> I blew some lady's mind at an outreach event recently when I told her about the lunar retroreflector array :D
<Iskierka> "You can laser the moon and it lasers you back"
<SnoopJeDi> (we somehow were on the subject of being able to see the moon's orbit "ringing" and she asked how we were able to measure something with such a big contrast ratio)
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<egg|zzz|egg> SnoopJeDi: alternatively, VLBI?
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:LCROSS Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing Satellite
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<UmbralRaptor> What would you use for the transmitter, though? Goldstone or Arecibo?
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: here's one where they do show you the actual LAMP data https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/3785
<UmbralRaptor> Uh, for real life WSB shenanigans, Stardust and LADEE?
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: ^
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: whitequark: Hiten, SMART-1,
<UmbralRaptor> Right
<egg|zzz|egg> SMART?
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: [SMART] => Small Missions for Advanced Research in Technology
<whitequark> egg|zzz|egg: oooh I see
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: oh I think I had some papers on low energy transfer, I wonder whether I can find them again
<egg|zzz|egg> Belbruno, I remember that author name
<UmbralRaptor> <egg|swimming|egg>
<egg|zzz|egg> yeah
<egg|zzz|egg> aha, I think I remember this title
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1109.5393.pdf
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: see figure 8 for images of outer and inner transfers
<egg|zzz|egg> whitequark: my blurb on going to the mun with principia does an inner transfer
<egg|zzz|egg> (ballistic capture means you still have to do something to get captured in a way where chaos won't eat you (or throw you into the moon most likely), but you're quite close, so circularization is cheaper
<egg|zzz|egg> obviously you can't truly get captured (as in put your energy somewhere where you provably won't get out) without doing *something*
<egg|zzz|egg> cat stream! currently catless though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5251lX2J1M
<kmath_> YouTube - Experimenting with the emulated SD card real-time hex editor @scanlime-in-progress
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<UmbralRaptor> egg is the sort of person who watches random tech streams for the cats.
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: well... yes
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: that cat catches bolts
<UmbralRaptor> Feline assisted screw recovery and organization?
<kmath_> <demitrimuna> YOU SHALL NOT WORK TODAY. https://t.co/cVXAb1EbML
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: cat is fetching bolts again
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: whitequark: goodnight
<Iskierka> ... egg going to sleep at a reasonable hour?!?!?!
<egg|zzz|egg> hmm, which principia things do I need to poke at tomorrow
<egg|zzz|egg> - flight plan should not bork itself when checking show on navball
* UmbralRaptor assumes that we should be checking for orange skies, cats and dogs living together, TOPOL-Ms going over the pole, or something.
<egg|zzz|egg> - my pull request with advancepart needs comments otherwise phl isn't going to be happy
<egg|zzz|egg> hmm
<egg|zzz|egg> - vessel shouldn't empty its psychohistory
<egg|zzz|egg> - I need to figure out what's going on with our navball framefields to bring the surface navball through the interface
<egg|zzz|egg> - the plotting frame being heliocentric by default is a pain in the arse
<Iskierka> vesselcentric plotting
<egg|zzz|egg> Iskierka: that... that's a big feature
<egg|zzz|egg> it's planned, but it's definitely not in Cardano
<egg|zzz|egg> because that requires the vessel trajectories to be the same sort of beast as the celestial trajectories
<egg|zzz|egg> (and yeah it means it's very hard to do rendez-vous, but well, it's not going to write itself magically :-p)
* Iskierka meant plotting the vessel's path in the vessel's own reference frame. so no path at all.
<egg|zzz|egg> hah
<egg|zzz|egg> Iskierka: zzz; UmbralRaptor: http://i.imgur.com/6yLPkWa.jpg ?
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<UmbralRaptor> Cat hat!
<UmbralRaptor> (...do cat hats wake Majiir?)
<Majiir> Cat hat!
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<GreeningGalaxy> 8-bit MCU with integrated nRF24L01+
<whitequark> uhhh you do not want to use 8051.
<whitequark> it's a minor nightmare to program