<soundnfury>
egg|zzz|egg: they attempt to detect sine waves in the slurred speech of diplomats which may indicate the presence of booze orbiting other fortresses?
<egg|zzz|egg>
a new scholarship application!
<JovianRaptor>
%chance of success?
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<egg|zzz|egg>
JovianRaptor: I accept them all (I mean, sometimes the scholars get stabbed/eaten/whatever before they manage to get in, but I accept all applications, worst case there's always some hauling to be done
<egg|zzz|egg>
also this parenthesis should be closed)
* JovianRaptor
should send an application to The Starwatch of Oxen.
<egg|zzz|egg>
sooo, Nomal News: she feels anxious after discussing autopsy, and after discussing the encyclopedia
<egg|zzz|egg>
JovianRaptor: mind the goblin armies
<egg|zzz|egg>
JovianRaptor: actually they don't seem to bother scholars too much, just mercenaries; but you still don't want to get stuck outside while the gates are closed for the length of the siege
<GreeningGalaxy>
both 1 and 2 aren't even monospaced what to heck
<soundnfury>
"whatever xterm uses"
<soundnfury>
('course the real hardcore option is "whatever an ASR-33 uses")
<JovianRaptor>
gnu unifont!
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<egg|zzz|egg>
JovianRaptor: some student has become a student of some doctor
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<egg|zzz|egg>
grad students \o/
<JovianRaptor>
\o/
<JovianRaptor>
Wait, will they need to acquire fresh goblinite samples?
<egg|zzz|egg>
so the student is discussing the siphon right now, while the doctor is discussing perception
<egg|zzz|egg>
they seem to be yelling across the lecture hall past each other O_o
<GreeningGalaxy>
./autogen.sh -> you don't have this package! -> install package -> ./autogen.sh -> you don't have this other package! -> GOTO 1;
<JovianRaptor>
Probably a finite loop.
<GreeningGalaxy>
true.
<JovianRaptor>
How'd the test go?
<GreeningGalaxy>
well, I almost certainly did not fail, but also probably didn't do much better than that.
<egg|zzz|egg>
JovianRaptor: sooo, here's a map of the conversations in the lecture hall: http://i.imgur.com/Ll12xjh.png those in orange are talking about quadratic equations, those in green about perception, those in blue about the siphon; the rest are reading/researching/drinking/sleeping
<egg|zzz|egg>
what the hell is going on in there
<egg|zzz|egg>
(in the rectangular room they're mostly discussing foraging behaviour all through the room, so that makes more sense)
<egg|zzz|egg>
nomal is in the rectangular room, involved in that big discussion of foraging behaviour
<egg|zzz|egg>
now that discussion has split into very large numbers, the screw, and tracheotomy
<egg|zzz|egg>
nomal is discussing the screw
<GreeningGalaxy>
>"fixed-width font" >most decidedly not fixed-width
<GreeningGalaxy>
It appears some monospace fonts are just broken. Inconsolata has worked for me in the past but this iteration just gives me bold characters that are too wide and screw everything up
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<JovianRaptor>
Soozee: Get out! It's a trap!
<egg|zzz|egg>
> zzz egg
<Soozee>
True
<egg|zzz|egg>
>zzz JovianRaptor
<egg|zzz|egg>
:t zzz
<Soozee>
t -> Bool
<egg|zzz|egg>
> zzz zzz
<Soozee>
True
<JovianRaptor>
egg|zzz|egg: Still jittery from coffee + hunger
<JovianRaptor>
!wa 4 cups in ml
<Qboid>
JovianRaptor: convert 4 cups to milliliters: 946.4 mL (milliliters)
<JovianRaptor>
!wa 8 cups in ml
<Qboid>
JovianRaptor: convert 8 cups to milliliters: 1893 mL (milliliters)
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* JovianRaptor
meeps
Snoozee is now known as Majiir
<JovianRaptor>
Majiir: evaded the Agents?
<GreeningGalaxy>
JovianRaptor: for god's sake, eat something! Coffee and no food is not going to get you to space today.
<egg|zzz|egg>
so there's a dwarf applying for a scholarship, who's hauling an old book by one of my scholars; I'm not sure whether they just got it from the library, or whether it's a book that was taken out by a visiting scholar and happens to come back via this one...
<egg|zzz|egg>
it's a proof of the irrationality of sqrt(2)
<JovianRaptor>
egg|zzz|egg: does it have late fees?
JovianRaptor is now known as UmbralRaptor
<egg|zzz|egg>
hah
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<egg|zzz|egg>
I like how the thoughts of everyone that got a scholarship is a chain of horrified at seeing .* die because the entrance is in the moat which I fill with corpses
<GreeningGalaxy>
that doesn't sound sanitary. Way to call down the black death!
<UmbralRaptor>
egg|zzz|egg: So like actual grad programs, but more literal?
<egg|zzz|egg>
GreeningGalaxy: well by now they're just skeletons
<UmbralRaptor>
!choose eat|grade
<Qboid>
UmbralRaptor: Your options are: eat, grade. My choice: grade
<egg|zzz|egg>
GreeningGalaxy: and there are bathtubs at the entrance too
TheKosmonaut is now known as Kosmo|EVA
<egg|zzz|egg>
... there's a visiting scholar with a copy of The Nuanced Point, also by my scholars
<GreeningGalaxy>
you should eat AND grade.
<egg|zzz|egg>
The Emancipation of Oils, a performance troupe, is visiting
<egg|zzz|egg>
FeedingGalaxy
<egg|zzz|egg>
GreeningGalaxy: while you're at it, you should probably make sure that whitequark eats at some point
<GreeningGalaxy>
I don't think I've been around whitequark for long enough to be their mom
<egg|zzz|egg>
hah
<egg|zzz|egg>
anyway, enough nomalization for now, zzztime
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn GreeningGalaxy
* Qboid
gives GreeningGalaxy a pi monoid
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<GreeningGalaxy>
foooooonts
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<SnoopJeDi>
The Emancipation of Oils sounds more like a spa or salon than a troupe
Kosmo|EVA is now known as TheKosmonaut
<GreeningGalaxy>
gah, my client keeps getting borked up with characters that should be gone but are still there
<GreeningGalaxy>
I blame egg.
<SnoopJeDi>
So I'm updating my notes for my online D&D campaign and making a "persons known" section. Just realized the DM named the husband of a shopowner "Ofher"
<SnoopJeDi>
Which I did not get at the time, but I've read The Handmaid's Tale in the interim...
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<GreeningGalaxy>
yeesh, this is such a weird problem. My launcher menu button occasionally turns into a pidgin button for no reason. as in, pidgin launches instead of the KDE menu appearing when I click it.
<GreeningGalaxy>
only way to fix appears to be to kill pidgin whenever it happens and relaunch it.
<SnoopJeDi>
o.o
<GreeningGalaxy>
I think what's happening is that pidgin is literally escaping the system tray and hiding in the corner of the screen, which happens to be where the menu button is.
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<egg|zzz|egg>
whitequark: also, a calendar of Cardano releases, hopefully astropixels.com/ephemeris/phasescat/phases2001.html
<whitequark>
!wpn -add:wpn acid
<Qboid>
whitequark: Weapon added!
<egg|zzz|egg>
s/Cardano/Principia/
<Qboid>
egg|zzz|egg meant to say: whitequark: also, a calendar of Principia releases, hopefully astropixels.com/ephemeris/phasescat/phases2001.html
<whitequark>
!wpn -add:adj nitrated
<Qboid>
whitequark: Adjective added!
<egg|zzz|egg>
(new moons only, we're not looking at quarterly releases)
<egg|zzz|egg>
(I think I'm going to use quartely for "just below weekly" now)
<UmbralRaptor>
!wpn -add:wpn base
<Qboid>
UmbralRaptor: Weapon added!
<whitequark>
!wpn -add:wpn git
<Qboid>
whitequark: Weapon added!
<whitequark>
!wpn -add:wpn git-rebase
<Qboid>
whitequark: Weapon added!
<egg|zzz|egg>
whitequark: may I ask a stupid context-free language design question? typically languages have and and or operators that only evaluate their second argument conditioned on the first; (&&, and then, ||, or else, etc.). But then with operator overloading they don't usually give you the possibility of doing that; why isn't call-by-name a thing anymore?
egg|zzz|egg is now known as egg|principia|egg
<whitequark>
egg|principia|egg: the majority of modern-ish languages don't let you override short-circuiting operators
<egg|principia|egg>
right, but why is that?
<whitequark>
because it's kinda confusing
<whitequark>
there's no inherent reason the runtime can't pass a thunk to the operator
<whitequark>
(other than it being inefficient)
<egg|principia|egg>
yeah, lambdas you can sort of do that, but it's explicit, whereas you don't write some_predicate && [&]{return some_other_predicate;}
<whitequark>
no
<whitequark>
the second argument of &&/|| could be implicitly thunked
<whitequark>
(which, if I remember correctly, what call-by-name really is)
<egg|principia|egg>
right, but most languages don't provide that facility
<whitequark>
it breaks locality of control flow
<egg|principia|egg>
yeah, call-by-name is just implicitly thunking
<egg|principia|egg>
except it's the 60s way of calling it :D
<whitequark>
so you read code and without looking at the definition of a function, which may not even be resolvable statically, you don't know whether the argument will be evaluated once or twice or whatever
<whitequark>
in conjunction with mutable state this makes it hard to write robust code
<whitequark>
(and without mutable state the question is obviously moot)
<egg|principia|egg>
makes sense
<whitequark>
imagine, say, ruby
<whitequark>
x && y
* egg|principia|egg
has a hard time imagining ruby, but ok :-p
<whitequark>
it's very easy to make it so that the class of x is not known before runtime
<whitequark>
s/ruby/python/
<Qboid>
whitequark meant to say: imagine, say, python
<egg|principia|egg>
slightly better :-p
<egg|principia|egg>
hmm
<egg|principia|egg>
and so you don't know whether you might fall on a calling-by-name overload of && ?
<whitequark>
I'd put it another way, you have fewer things you can definitely rely on
<egg|principia|egg>
yeah, of course
<whitequark>
you can't rely on the second argument of && being evaluated zero or once
<whitequark>
this is actually a case where ruby is nicer than python, because in ruby falsiness of a value cannot be overridden
<whitequark>
so... `nil` and `false` are the only falsey values
<whitequark>
(also `undef` but `undef` doesn't exist)
<whitequark>
btw, this is why scheme should abandon call/cc
<whitequark>
it's basically impossible to write code that manages resources (or to a degree, even state) in presence of call/cc
<egg|principia|egg>
?
<egg|principia|egg>
scheme? call/cc?
<whitequark>
Scheme.
<whitequark>
it's a lispy language.
<whitequark>
a lispy functional language, to be precise
<whitequark>
call/cc is "call with current continuation"
<egg|principia|egg>
this sounds like it has something to do with electricity :-p
<whitequark>
(call/cc f) calls f with an argument k. if you call the argument k with a value v, the invocation of call/cc returns v.
<whitequark>
and yes, you can call k multiple times. as many times as you want, in fact
<whitequark>
the thing about call/cc is you can implement any nonlocal control flow with call/cc, but you cannot implement any of it *nicely*
<whitequark>
so back when people designed scheme, they thought of call/cc as of this silver bullet
<whitequark>
this has made a lot of people very unhappy and was widely regarded as a bad move a decade later
<egg|principia|egg>
:-)
<whitequark>
there are also "delimited continuations", which are sort of theoretically similar to continuations in call/cc but do not have anything to do with them in practice
<whitequark>
delimited continuations are basically a nice way to express CPS or SSA in the surface language
<egg|principia|egg>
CPS?
<egg|principia|egg>
SSA?
<whitequark>
whereas call/cc is basically setjmp/longjmp if setjmp preserved not just SP but squirreled away every stack frame
<Qboid>
whitequark: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<whitequark>
!acronym -add:SSA Static Single Assignment
<Qboid>
whitequark: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<whitequark>
CPS is what functional programming people invented as their IR.
<whitequark>
SSA is what industrial compiler devs invented as their IR.
<whitequark>
for like fifteen years these have been considered completely opposite approaches, until someone noticed that it's literally the same thing
<whitequark>
(Andrew Appel, to be precise)
<egg|principia|egg>
:D
<egg|principia|egg>
whitequark: thanks for the eggsplanations!
<egg|principia|egg>
(whitequarksplanation? that doesn't sound right)
<whitequark>
AAAAAH
<egg|principia|egg>
?
<whitequark>
i've touched my laptop
<whitequark>
it's compiling android
<egg|principia|egg>
why does that make touching it an issue?
<egg|principia|egg>
whitequark: I gather you'll want oblateness as well as tilt in your custom config :-p
<whitequark>
*nod*
<egg|principia|egg>
(also I can put your KSC at that 40 deg lat place if you want, that way you get seasons)
<whitequark>
it's needed for sun-synchronous orbits anyhow
<egg|principia|egg>
yup
<egg|principia|egg>
40 deg lat is easier than baikonour^W Байконур^W Байқоңыр oh fuck even in Cyrillic there are two ways of writing that, which is at 45ish
<egg|principia|egg>
so that should still be quite manageable
<egg|principia|egg>
(also that will allow you to uncover fun bugs arising from that :-p)
<egg|principia|egg>
!u ң
<Qboid>
U+04A3 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER EN WITH DESCENDER (ң)
<Qboid>
egg|principia|egg: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<egg|principia|egg>
whitequark: so, it appears that warp to morning works with custom KSC location, but uses some sort of mean solar time, so in winter it may warp you to a mild red glow on the eastern horizon, and in summer to a high sun; we could implement a proper warp-to-sunrise in the C++ side, but I don't think I want to do that for Cardano.
<egg|principia|egg>
Looks like this; not quite dark, so I'd say that it gives an adequate wintery feel and leave it be http://imgur.com/a/tfJcZ
<whitequark>
alright
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<GreeningGalaxy>
!wpn egg|laptop|egg
* Qboid
gives egg|laptop|egg a Blizzard helicoid
<egg|principia|egg>
whitequark: do you think it needs a proper warp-to-sunrise? I can do that for Cartan, but then we're so used to mean days rather than sun-is-up days that I worry this might just be confusing, I'd sort of expect "morning" in winter to be dark
<egg|principia|egg>
high-latitude egg
<GreeningGalaxy>
dammit, missed
<egg|principia|egg>
GreeningGalaxy: ?
<egg|principia|egg>
!wpn GreeningGalaxy
* Qboid
gives GreeningGalaxy a four-coloured immersion
<GreeningGalaxy>
egg|principia|egg: wrong egg!
<egg|principia|egg>
aah
<egg|principia|egg>
so many eggs
* GreeningGalaxy
ſtabs tab completion
<GreeningGalaxy>
egg|principia|egg: from a gameplay perspective, warp-to-sunrise is useful if you're flying a plane and don't want to do it in the dark. not sure if anyone flies planes with principia installed though.
<egg|principia|egg>
well, I certainly do :D
<egg|principia|egg>
GreeningGalaxy: at 40 deg lat it's still not *too* dark though, as soon as you get some altitude you should see the sun
<GreeningGalaxy>
but taking off at night is D: if you have any reason to have trouble seeing your screen.
<egg|principia|egg>
yeah...
<egg|principia|egg>
hmm
<egg|principia|egg>
GreeningGalaxy: ... so the problem is that principia tends to be UI explosion already
<egg|principia|egg>
if I start implementing that, I could have a "warp to mean solar time, warp to sunrise, warp to whatever astronomical event you fancy" but it quickly becomes a mess
<GreeningGalaxy>
alright fine, then just add a mini-sun at Kerbin L2 that keeps things somewhat light at night.
<egg|principia|egg>
haha
<egg|principia|egg>
wasn't there an issue with ships lighting up the ground from orbit at some point
<GreeningGalaxy>
indeed. I vividly remember getting that with the B9 running lights.
<GreeningGalaxy>
which was amusing because their description said something like "tired of spotlights so bright that they occasionally light up the planet from orbit? use this!"
<egg|principia|egg>
GreeningGalaxy: hmmm, if UmbralRaptor ever gets around to looking at solar egglipses (or if we decide to do that ourselves, he's already supposed to look at a kozai test :D) we could just as easily have a "warp to next solar eclipse"... *imagines a screen-filling UI with all the astronomical events you might want to warp too* :D
<Iskierka>
don't forget time offset config so you can prepare shortly before
egg|principia|egg is now known as egg
* egg
ponders food
<egg>
!wpn GreeningGalaxy
* Qboid
gives GreeningGalaxy a Newtonian git-rebase
<egg>
!wpn Iskierka
* Qboid
gives Iskierka a xi resonance
<GreeningGalaxy>
ack, there's no thunderbird in debian still
<GreeningGalaxy>
it's still icedove
<egg>
birbs
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<egg>
!wpn GreeningGalaxy
* Qboid
gives GreeningGalaxy a BS 6008 ███████
<soundnfury>
!wpn egg
* Qboid
gives egg a gegenschein with a photomultiplier tube attachment
<soundnfury>
that will definitely help with your dark night ui ;)
* Qboid
gives GreeningGalaxy a xi submersible 2N3904
<egg>
!wpn whitequark
* Qboid
gives whitequark an achromatic ring
<GreeningGalaxy>
!wpn whitequark
* Qboid
gives whitequark a vegetable cardinal
<GreeningGalaxy>
!wpn egg
* Qboid
gives egg a tin group
<egg>
!wpn GreeningGalaxy
* Qboid
gives GreeningGalaxy an udev-named rectifier
<egg>
hmm
<egg>
should I eat
<GreeningGalaxy>
yeah, all you people in this channel procrastinating on food, go eat
<egg>
GreeningGalaxy: but what
<GreeningGalaxy>
but what what?
<egg>
GreeningGalaxy: poached eggs or tomato & burrata
<GreeningGalaxy>
poached eggs
<egg>
hmm
<egg>
but that's more work :-p
<GreeningGalaxy>
okay, tomato & burrata then
egg is now known as egg|nomz|egg
<bofh>
whitequark: so this reminds me of that time in high school I bulk-ordered like 1000 2N3904s
<bofh>
had so many of them that I'd use them as small-signal diodes even b/c why the fuck not
<whitequark>
lol
<bofh>
(nowadays it'd be 2N7000s)
<GreeningGalaxy>
2N7000s are wonderful
<GreeningGalaxy>
I got my uni to buy me a hundred, but I think I need more
<bofh>
I Newark/Element14'd about that many awhile ago
<GreeningGalaxy>
we just got ours along with an order of other stuff from Mouser
<bofh>
also I like how every time I do an electronics order I make sure to grab a few small-signal JFETs (MPF102, NTE451, 2N3819, etc)
<GreeningGalaxy>
I wanted p-channel equivalents too, so we also got 50 ZVP4424s. Significantly more expensive than the 2N7000 but slightly better quality.
<GreeningGalaxy>
ah yes, JFETs. Another thing I need more of.
<bofh>
like I never need them then but somehow I always will wind up needing them EVENTUALLY and god if there's one constant, it's that: A) nobody has fucking JFETs, B) when you need one, good luck replacing it with anything else
<GreeningGalaxy>
I don't think I have a single p-channel JFET.
<GreeningGalaxy>
heh
<GreeningGalaxy>
do you have a favorite N-depletion MOSFET? I've heard they're rare, but it looks like Mouser has a few options.
<bofh>
okay so once while REALLY desperate I replaced a JFET with a 6CB6 temporarily
<bofh>
but like that's not exactly a commonly usable thing
<bofh>
I've never had a use for N-depletion MOSFETs yet, so nope.
<GreeningGalaxy>
I hear they make nice simple linear current regulators. Attach them high-side, put a resistor downstream, and wire the gate on the other side of that, and you get current directly proportional to that resistance.
<GreeningGalaxy>
er, inversely.
<GreeningGalaxy>
If you want to make, say, a dimmable LED flashlight that doesn't use PWM, there's no simpler option. Probably not especially efficient though.
<bofh>
13:45 <@GreeningGalaxy> I hear they make nice simple linear current regulators. Attach them high-side, put a resistor downstream, and wire the gate on the other side of
<bofh>
that, and you get current directly proportional to that resistance.
<GreeningGalaxy>
I think the problem is that making them involves something silly like stuffing a little piece of charge permanently inside the oxide layer between gate and substrate. I've also seen power JFETs sold for similar purposes.
<bofh>
control theory, friend :)
<GreeningGalaxy>
oh.
<bofh>
I've used this to drive 1.4W 445nm laser diodes successfully (both at ~50mW and at ~1W)
<bofh>
also jesus fuck 1W of laser diode in a 7.4 (or so) mm can heats the fuck up stupidly quickly
<GreeningGalaxy>
jesus fuck what are you using a 1W laser for
<GreeningGalaxy>
at 445nm too christ on a stove
<bofh>
photolithography testing
<bofh>
445nm b/c they're cheap as fuck
<GreeningGalaxy>
and scorch through that yellow stuff in your eyeballs as efficiently as possible, too
egg|nomz|egg is now known as egg
* egg
ponders a second coffee
<egg>
well third if you count the breakfast one, but that one doesn't count
<GreeningGalaxy>
I need to head off to school, brb
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<bofh>
egg: I had 3 so far (+ some other things) and still don't feel awake yet, but I'm basically permanently sleep-deprived so
<kmath_>
<FakeUnicode> Developers: Did emoji make you finally care about and support/implement supplemental planes (4 byte UTF-8, astral characters, surrogates)?
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<egg>
!wpn GreeningGalaxy
* Qboid
gives GreeningGalaxy a Givens adiabatic quill/DIAC hybrid
<bofh>
egg: so mostly I just hate coloured graphemes
<bofh>
egg: I fixed this by custom-compiling libfreetype.so to flatten rgb24 to gray8
<egg>
yeah, but that's not really what I care about; even if not coloured, symbols given emoji presentation look different
<egg>
e.g. here ♈ gets enclosed in a square
<egg>
which is evil
<egg>
stabbity
<egg>
make: *** No rule to make target 'ksp_plugin/physics_bubble.hpp', needed by 'build/ksp_plugin_test/mock_plugin.d'. Stop.
<egg>
sanoehusanoehusa I am going to need to poke at the makefile again? :-\
<egg>
wait no, I just need to clean don't I
<egg>
ok, started the linux build
<egg>
this is going to take ages
<egg>
!csharp "\xfe0e♈"
<Qboid>
︎♈
<egg>
!csharp "♈\xfe0e"
<Qboid>
♈︎
<bofh>
lol
<egg>
bofh: ?
<bofh>
egg: makefile fuckery
<egg>
ok, the makefile seems to have built its include
<egg>
otoh make: *** No rule to make target 'tests'. Stop.
<bofh>
whitequark: I don't see any reason why you'd want to keep C0 controls in logs
<egg>
whitequark: does it interpret and render those?
<egg>
blaaargh clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see invocation)
<egg>
undefined reference to `__cxa_thread_atexit' OOO_ooo
<whitequark>
bofh: as a rule, I put into the database exactly the thing I got from the network
<whitequark>
egg: nah
<whitequark>
too lazy to do so
<egg>
:D
<whitequark>
and it doesn't play well with themes
<egg>
true
<egg>
it does do something for *this* though
<whitequark>
yes
<egg>
which can probably screw with adequately designed C-family snippets :D
<whitequark>
yes
<egg>
so apparently clang's linker complains about the fact that I have some thread_local variables
<whitequark>
um
<whitequark>
there is no clang's linker
<whitequark>
it's just your system linker
<egg>
s/clang's/the
<Qboid>
egg meant to say: so apparently the linker complains about the fact that I have some thread_local variables
<whitequark>
yeah
<whitequark>
which libcxx are you using
<whitequark>
libstdc++ or libc++
<egg>
libc++
<egg>
compiler's Ubuntu clang version 3.6.2-1 (tags/RELEASE_362/final) (based on LLVM 3.6.2)
<whitequark>
-lsupc++
<egg>
whitequark: ok, will try
<egg>
that appears to work
<egg>
thanks
<egg>
have a wpn
<egg>
!wpn whitequark
* Qboid
gives whitequark a Lévy–Прохоров tangential pig
<bofh>
LOL
<bofh>
!wpn whitequark
* Qboid
gives whitequark a psi motor
<GreeningGalaxy>
Ahhh finally. I've finished all my finals, all my grading, now all I have to do is go TA for the electronics final lab and I can go sleep and not care about anything until next tuesday
<bofh>
GreeningGalaxy: 'grats
<bofh>
GreeningGalaxy: I just finished the last batch of my grading before spring break yesterday (there was way too fucking much of it)
<GreeningGalaxy>
I would've had a lot of grading if everyone turned their homework in, but we had something like a 60% turn-in rate for these last few assignments.
<bofh>
don't look the gift horse in the mouth :P
<GreeningGalaxy>
there's that one assignment that nobody turned in, and that one guy who never turned anything in. Make a nice little cross across the grade spreadsheet.
<bofh>
LOL
<egg>
!wpn GreeningGalaxy
* Qboid
gives GreeningGalaxy a char equivalence
<whitequark>
!wpn GreeningGalaxy
* Qboid
gives GreeningGalaxy a californium slug
<egg>
!wpn bofh
* Qboid
gives bofh a vertex
<GreeningGalaxy>
!wpn egg and whitequark
* Qboid
gives egg and whitequark a helium physicist which vaguely resembles an endomorphism
<bofh>
can I have an edge too?
<egg>
whitequark: wheee all tests pass on linux \o/
<egg>
!wpn -add:wpn edge
<Qboid>
egg: Weapon already added!
<egg>
bofh: you can
<bofh>
LOL
<egg>
it's not very likely :D
<bofh>
!wpn egg, whitequark, GreeningGalaxy
* Qboid
gives egg, whitequark, GreeningGalaxy a lead magma
<egg>
oooh a magma
<egg>
is it associative
<GreeningGalaxy>
no it's lead
<egg>
are there associative magmas that are made out of lead
<bofh>
Do Not Want
<GreeningGalaxy>
you eggsplained me what a magma was at some point but it went in one eye and out the other
<egg>
GreeningGalaxy: it's basically a binary operation on a set
<egg>
with no properties
<bofh>
ugh, finally, I think I got all the branch cuts on Jν(z) handled correctly
<egg>
a -> a -> a, as the haskellites would say
<bofh>
like I guess I could also analytically continue it to also complex-valued ν but: A) I don't need that, B) I don't know what use that would be for anyone, C) FUCK THAT SHIT
<egg>
bofh: oh, you implement special functions?
<bofh>
egg: when I need to, yes.
* egg
would like to do that someday (or elementary functions, they're fun too)
<egg>
phl did elementary functions for Apex's Ada.Numerics
<bofh>
egg: I recommend Airy's functions Ai(x)/Bi(x) as a place to start
<egg>
bofh: tbh, I'd probably want to do Kepler's function if anything :D
<bofh>
they're a good representative sample of bullshit numerics issues you run into
<egg>
bofh: the square root is really annoying iirc
<egg>
doesn't like being fit to polynomials
<bofh>
Kepler's f'n doesn't really have an analytical form (no, the horrendous power series you get when you apply Inverse F'n Theorem doesn't cound)
<egg>
bofh: of course it doesn't but that doesn't matter
<bofh>
egg: it's really not. like it doesn't like being fit to polynomials but the Newton Iterates are fast
<egg>
iirc you can do better than that
<egg>
(also if you want the last bit it's tricky)
<bofh>
(also do inverse square root, it has no divisions in the Newton Iterates)
<bofh>
okay yes, correctly rounded anything is like twice the effort of "up to 1 ULP of error" anything
<egg>
yeah, but what if you're implementing Ada.Numerics and you want a last-bit precise sqrt in software :D
<bofh>
(I personally don't bother)
<bofh>
actually I think Jν(z) has as much as 5 ULPs of error in the complex phase term on some branches
<egg>
bofh: re Kepler, neither do trig functions have nice analytical forms in terms of the operations of IEEE 754, that doesn't stop one from fitting stuff to a chunk after Payne-Hanek has reduced it to π/4
<bofh>
egg: so like on [0,π/4] they have very NICE rapidly converging power series
<egg>
I thought they were too slow, compared to having a bunch of polynomials?
<egg>
(there you can't do last bit anyway)
<bofh>
so like 6 FMAs is very very fast
<bofh>
Payne-Hanek is the slow part there by at least a factor of 10
<egg>
sure
<bofh>
(I actually implemented sin(x)/cos(x) for single precision myself, let me see if I can find that code)
<egg>
bofh: phl's work on that was before FMAs were common though
<bofh>
so 6 adds and 6 multiplies are still very fast :p
<bofh>
arithmetic ops are essentially free in comparison to branches and memory loads/stores
<egg>
yeah, I guess
<bofh>
(might've not been 2 decades ago, but certainly have been for the past 5 years)
<bofh>
also this is the fuckfest you get for Kepler(x):
<egg>
whitequark: so, what's lsupc++ and why does it make things work? :-p
<whitequark>
egg: do you know what compiler-rt is
<whitequark>
or libgcc_s
<egg>
no
<whitequark>
um
<whitequark>
well the compiler mostly generates code directly
<whitequark>
but say your arch doesn't have multiplication
<bofh>
(or integer division - that one's actually common)
<whitequark>
expanding multiplication inline every time it's used is silly and wasteful, especially if you use a clever algorithm
<whitequark>
so it emits a call to something like __muldi3
<whitequark>
osmething has to actually implement that though, right?
<whitequark>
compiler-rt is llvm's implementation and libgcc_s is gcc's
<whitequark>
anyway you have a similar problem in c++
<whitequark>
for example, statics are guaranteed to be threadsafe
<whitequark>
this means that a local static actually has to involve a mutex
<whitequark>
and be exception-safe too, usually
<egg>
huh, wasn't aware that statics were threadsafe
<whitequark>
yeah, so look at the assembly for statics
<egg>
in this case it's a thread_local, so it probably has to do things to threads, I can believe that :D
<whitequark>
yes, thread_locals have a similar issue.
<whitequark>
the thing is these features have to coordinate between libc and libc++
<whitequark>
(whichever implementation you use for either)
<whitequark>
so... with gcc, it provides compiler, linker, libc and libc++
<whitequark>
so it has an intrinsic knowledge of everything it needs to supply
<whitequark>
clang, not quite so, especially in odder configurations
<egg>
I see, thanks for the eggsplanation
<egg>
bofh: so, re. Kepler, is there nothing smarter to be done than merely Newtoning the hell out of it?
* GreeningGalaxy
is about to try to illegally install Scientific Linux on this old Dell tower that technically belongs to the university
<GreeningGalaxy>
at the behest of my prof, so my ass is at least somewhat covered.
<bofh>
egg: smarter? probably
<bofh>
but why bother when the Newton iterates converge so fast? :p
<bofh>
GreeningGalaxy: rofl does anyone really care?
<egg>
bofh: tbh I was too lazy to write a Newton and I do it by bisection for now (I do it only when creating a plugin so I don't really care)
<GreeningGalaxy>
bofh: IT would care if someone told them, but nobody needs to tell them.
<egg>
but if I wanted to do the Wisdom-Holmann splitting I'd want it as fast as can be
ferram4 has quit [Ping timeout: 206 seconds]
<GreeningGalaxy>
this is our ongoing problem with GPIB that I think I've already ranted about. (macs don't have the expandability, and managing windows machines ourselves is Illegal)
<bofh>
are you shitting me about the latteR?
<GreeningGalaxy>
Nope. The Law (of the uni) is that only IT personnel may have admin access over uni-owned Windows machines. Not even department chairs.
<bofh>
JESUS FUCK
<bofh>
(also I know someone who makes GPIB-USB adapters. everything is fully open, PCB, firmware, s/w, drivers, if that's something that might interest you)
<GreeningGalaxy>
My prof and I use RPis for everything partly because they're easy to program for arbitrary GPIO porpoises, but mostly because they count as fiddling small research equipment and not as full computers that need to be Managed.
<GreeningGalaxy>
that sounds nice.
<GreeningGalaxy>
I've been thinking about trying to knock together a GPIB solution using an RPi GPIO, but that might be absurd.
<e_14159>
bofh: Misreading this as International Space Station makes it far more funny.
<egg>
e_14159: ? O_o
<e_14159>
egg: Remember the physics experiment I did last week?
<egg>
ow
<e_14159>
Aka bike crashing into car not looking for cyclists?
<e_14159>
Apparently the <expletive deleted> decided (after the fact, despite what the police report probably says, and despite it being physically impossible from the traffic lights) to claim that I had a red light.
<e_14159>
Anyway, just ignore me for now. I'm bitter, and annoyed at having to spend even more time with administration stuff :-)
<SnoopJeDi>
so uh, anybody see the US budget blueprint
<egg>
e_14159: :-\
<bofh>
SnoopJeDi: this email I'm sending to Rick Perry right now basically is tearing him a new asshole (and I'm going to fax it as well). going to take awhile since I need to do research for it.
<SnoopJeDi>
yea, I intend to get in touch with my reps once I've had a chance to actually dig into the details
<bofh>
mind you I'm only doing this b/c I have some hope he might listen. my only previous attempt at contacting US politicians involved Faxing Mitch McConnell about 2000 pages of Lorem Ipsum before he blocked the department's fax line at the PSTN.
<SnoopJeDi>
I've become a fan of https://www.govtrack.us/ as a helper tool to stay in touch with one's reps and their activity
<bofh>
so I'm not a US citizen so for the most part I have zero political power
<bofh>
which is why I've mostly not bothered
<bofh>
(spamming McConnell's fax line was solely to make me feel slightly better :P)
<SnoopJeDi>
yea
<SnoopJeDi>
In general the higher up the totem pole you go, the less leverage you have
<SnoopJeDi>
A sensible rep's office probably wouldn't turn away solicitation from someone who contributes to their district's economy, I think
<SnoopJeDi>
(raising the alarming question of how much academic work contributes as such, but I digress ?)
<bofh>
have you *looked at* Senate Republicans lately?
<SnoopJeDi>
I did say sensible, bofh
<bofh>
"sensible" is not even in the same universe as the
<bofh>
them*
<SnoopJeDi>
At the risk of revealing myself as a pod-person moderate, I think Cruz is more level-headed than people give him credit for
<SnoopJeDi>
people on the left, I mean
<bofh>
eh. my firm view on this at this point is "US political power is WAY too consolidated in the executive branch and this needs to be fixed ASAP"
<SnoopJeDi>
oh sure
<SnoopJeDi>
Obama was a disaster from that pov
<bofh>
that's only b/c Obama was working around total obstructionism in Congress.
<SnoopJeDi>
There was some piece on NPR or somewhere that talked about how anytime a president continues a policy put in place by a predecessor (who is generally on the other side of the aisle), they establish a firm status quo
<bofh>
mind you, I think the US Senate is a tire fire aswell
<SnoopJeDi>
ennnggghhh I don't agree
<SnoopJeDi>
I mean, I like Obama as a whole
<SnoopJeDi>
but he's not getting a free pass from me on the damage he did to the office
<SnoopJeDi>
one can point out that GWB started it, but that's hardly fruitful :/
<SnoopJeDi>
I'll definitely agree that we're in garbage-fire mode though
<SnoopJeDi>
it's hard not to join the collective mass of "woe is us" whining
<bofh>
ehh I don't know when US politics started being such a tire fire (was it always?), but it is.
<SnoopJeDi>
I think there's a good argument to be made that it's designed to be a tire fire
<regex>
It's definitely fun watching all these Republicans running around wondering what the hell to do now that they pretty much own the government. About the only thing they can agree on is that the rich should get richer.
<regex>
Town hall videos are a new favorite of mine.
<SnoopJeDi>
I'm not having fun
<SnoopJeDi>
:/
<regex>
Neither am I but I have to find some joy to stave off the "collective mass of "woe is us" whining"
<regex>
I have a Lebanese friend who probably won't be able to visit his family for some time with the racist shennanigans.
<bofh>
fucking christ
<bofh>
(also, not having fun either :/)
<regex>
It's a trying time, but if there's any good to come out of it we'll all be well engaged by the end of it.
<bofh>
s/engaged/enraged/
<regex>
Eh, people got lazy.
<bofh>
I am slightly confused as to where this expectation that politicians must entropy to the "greedy self-serving bastard assholes" state unless constant action is taken
<bofh>
like observationally they seem to, at least in the USA
<bofh>
but ugh
<SnoopJeDi>
regex, I agree, we've gotten exactly what we deserve (at the risk of indulgent self-flagellation)
<GreeningGalaxy>
One of my best friends is Pakistani, and she and her family are seriously contemplating leaving for Canada. Not *much* better there, but the racism is at least less immediately violent.
<regex>
:ugh:
<GreeningGalaxy>
although the Chicago area hasn't been as bad as elsewhere in the nation, so maybe she'll yet stay put.
<GreeningGalaxy>
plenty of dickheads here, but we're also the city that scared Trump away during campaigns.
<SnoopJeDi>
I'm alarmed by the good/bad thing, as always
<bofh>
^
<SnoopJeDi>
I've taken to immediate distrust of anybody who thinks they can give me a simplified picture of...anything.
<regex>
Well, we're basically looking at an upending of the current world order.
<SnoopJeDi>
Which is really weird to say working in science because reductionism is kind of our jam
<regex>
lol
<SnoopJeDi>
But then, holistic views of systems are definitely dominant in e.g. medicine so...who knows, maybe we're turning a corner there
<SnoopJeDi>
People are eating poop pills, what a time to be alive
<whitequark>
an interesting thing about aggressively rejecting reductionism is it's very easily turned into sabotage
<whitequark>
cf. 'climate change skeptics'
<SnoopJeDi>
for sure
<GreeningGalaxy>
jesus, it's taking five ever to flash this boot USB
<GreeningGalaxy>
The image is only a few hundred megabytes. Didn't I start this like an hour ago?
<Iskierka>
maybe drive is ded?
<GreeningGalaxy>
usually dd will fail if it is
<SnoopJeDi>
could just be very slow
<GreeningGalaxy>
I'll run over an I/O error, or else it will just stop writing and give me "no space left on device"
<GreeningGalaxy>
yeah could be
<egg>
!wpn GreeningGalaxy, whitequark, and Iskierka
* Qboid
gives GreeningGalaxy, whitequark, and Iskierka a separable geobukseon
<SnoopJeDi>
my teeny-tiny one that is basically a microSD is pathetically slow
<Iskierka>
!wa 500 MB / hour
<Qboid>
Iskierka: 500 MB/h (megabytes per hour): 1.111 Mb/s (megabits per second)
<Iskierka>
... guess it's feasible
<Iskierka>
just seems odd that whenever I've flashed (fairly large due to *buntu) images it's been minutes
<Iskierka>
egg: good thing it's separable
<SnoopJeDi>
good thing he used an Oxford comma
<GreeningGalaxy>
I'm accustomed to writing µSD cards for RPi porpoises; this is much slower.
<Iskierka>
too late now, but no progress feedback option from dd?
<GreeningGalaxy>
None I'm aware of
* SnoopJeDi
blinks at μSD
<SnoopJeDi>
huh, I've never seen that textual representation
<GreeningGalaxy>
It might be an UmbralRaptorism
<Iskierka>
initial google says there's a status=progress option in 16.04 *buntu but who knows how widespread that is. alternatively, pipe it through pv and two separate dd's to get progress. Weird ways to do it but I guess it works
<Iskierka>
also an alternative for getting an update while running if you're willing to risk weird kill signals
<GreeningGalaxy>
interesting
<GreeningGalaxy>
oh, that is an option. I didn't see it in the man page because it's split across two screens lol
<GreeningGalaxy>
never used it before.
<GreeningGalaxy>
I would use some GUI image writer or other, but last I looked I was unable to find one worth using.
<GreeningGalaxy>
and dd's simplicity is nice.
<SnoopJeDi>
I've always liked unetbootin
<whitequark>
it's very broken lately
<SnoopJeDi>
there's LiLi but the interface is the absolute worst
<whitequark>
incidentally, for PC, you can just dd the iso to an usb stick
<SnoopJeDi>
but yea, dd is just pragmatic when you've got access to it, heh
<SnoopJeDi>
well, and don't want to cohabitate the stick with some data
<whitequark>
I think you can put it into a partition
<whitequark>
but I never tried that
<SnoopJeDi>
seems like it should be possible
<GreeningGalaxy>
I've just been dding ISOs and imgs and whatever to USB sticks and cds and µSDs and whatever
<Iskierka>
them trying to make it fancy is certainly an awful aspect to lili's interface but the things listed are functional - straightforward, the bits you need available, and not cluttered
<SnoopJeDi>
LiLi is one of the worst interfaces I've ever used
<Iskierka>
so much as the window design is silly that's what my windows machine has for an image writer
<GreeningGalaxy>
I've never got unetbootin to work, it always gives me broken images
<GreeningGalaxy>
Thomas: No, I was considering launching my own instance for a while, just for nostalgia.
<SnoopJeDi>
Kountdown ran on willie proper, ooph
<Thomas>
My first comment was directed at egg ;)
<SnoopJeDi>
the leading edge of Sopel is bad enough
<SnoopJeDi>
calc.py has a "py" command that calls an external API to evaluate a Python expression...the API allows you to import e.g. the socket library
<egg>
Thomas: :-p
<egg>
s/Thomas/Victor Frankenstein/
<Qboid>
egg meant to say: Victor Frankenstein: :-p
<Thomas>
egg: Feel free to write a Qboid module yourself though, and I might host it :D
<Thomas>
(or rather: I will host it, if it doesnt kill the whole bot :P)
<Iskierka>
SnoopJeDi, at least you hopefully might be limited in how much can be achieved within one IRC message?
<Iskierka>
though I think if you can get it to eval and create a socket you can probably get it to eval the contents of a bit.ly link
<GreeningGalaxy>
I think I lost Lizzie's mainline code. I can't seem to find it. The new version I was working on is still on my old laptop though.
<GreeningGalaxy>
er, other laptop. It's considerably newer than this one, lol
<SnoopJeDi>
Iskierka, the sandbox on the external API is...okay. Mostly I'm annoyed that it can't be disabled separately from the mundane !calc function
<SnoopJeDi>
You have to actually edit the module to disable that command, which should be a completely separate module, it's not a calculator :|
<GreeningGalaxy>
oh yes, I recall screwing with Kountdown that way.
<GreeningGalaxy>
Never thought to try socket nonsense
<Thomas>
You also screwed with Qboid when I added this API for the lulz :D
<GreeningGalaxy>
OH: "Alright, so the value of our unity-gain bandwidth is... my phone just died." "You're a farce." "I know."
<GreeningGalaxy>
wow, okay, so I'm finally done flashing... dd says I got a whopping 53 kB/s!
<Iskierka>
ouch
<egg>
!wpn Thomas
* Qboid
gives Thomas a nickel
<GreeningGalaxy>
this one might not be any good for installing SL. We shall see.
<GreeningGalaxy>
nope, it's toast. Okay, let's try a different one and try dd with status=progress.
<GreeningGalaxy>
oh cool that works
<GreeningGalaxy>
and this one is much faster
<bofh>
oh man it's so much fun showing people the Bertlmann's Socks paper
<egg>
nah, that it is not (how would that work actually?)
<Iskierka>
iunno but I want to see someone try
<egg>
I can do sun-synchronous
<egg>
now there's a dedicated orange navball for that \o/
<Iskierka>
KSP in linux appears to dislike primus. though it has at least actually started twice in a row
<egg>
whitequark: you use KSP on linux?
<Iskierka>
although the loading texts are approx 3pt font size
egg is now known as egg|nomz|egg
<e_14159>
Iskierka: Primusrun worked perfectly for me when I last used it with KSP (a year or so ago)
<SnoopJeDi>
I'd not heard of that one bofh, but of *course* it's a J.S. Bell
<SnoopJeDi>
"Speakable and Unspeakable in Quantum Mechanics" has been on my reading list for 6 or 7 years
<GreeningGalaxy>
;mission
<kmath_>
GreeningGalaxy: Having cornered the market on model rockets and paper airplanes, you start sending your catalogs to the Kerbal Space Program. Rokker punches you, your support crew, and the rocket.
<GreeningGalaxy>
;mission?
<SnoopJeDi>
msg << "Converting from V/cm and cm to kV/mm and mm before saving h5part" << endl;
* SnoopJeDi
blinks at "kV/mm"
<GreeningGalaxy>
kilovolts per millimeter?
<GreeningGalaxy>
thats a lot of volts
<GreeningGalaxy>
per meter
<SnoopJeDi>
it's just a bizarre unit to name for an electric field instead of saying V/m
<SnoopJeDi>
or MV/m, even
<Iskierka>
!c 36 - 17.6 - 14.4
<Qboid>
4
<GreeningGalaxy>
;mission
<kmath_>
GreeningGalaxy: You install Planet Factory. Green Iron Crown comes after you.
<GreeningGalaxy>
oh, planet factory
<GreeningGalaxy>
that brings back memories
<GreeningGalaxy>
The Thud landings were faked!!
<GreeningGalaxy>
(they were not, but they were done with antimatter which is scarecely better)
* Thomas
sees planet factory
* Thomas
runs
<UmbralRaptor>
!choose ergs per square centimeter|millijoules per square meter
<Qboid>
UmbralRaptor: Your options are: ergs per square centimeter, millijoules per square meter. My choice: millijoules per square meter
Thomas is now known as Thomas|AWAY
GreeningGalaxy has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
GreeningGalaxy has joined #kspacademia
<GreeningGalaxy>
yaaay I'm on spring break sort of
<GreeningGalaxy>
No homework due for a few days at least.
<GreeningGalaxy>
!wpn egg|nomz|egg and whitequark and bofh and SnoopJeDi and UmbralRaptor
* Qboid
gives egg|nomz|egg and whitequark and bofh and SnoopJeDi and UmbralRaptor a neodymium zone
<UmbralRaptor>
!wpn VacationGalaxy
* Qboid
gives VacationGalaxy a strontium bolo
<egg|nomz|egg>
!wpn GreeningGalaxy, whitequark, et al.
* Qboid
gives GreeningGalaxy, whitequark, et al. a vertex
regex has quit [Remote host closed the connection]