Technicalfool has quit [Ping timeout: 206 seconds]
Technicalfool has joined #kspacademia
e_14159 has quit [Ping timeout: 201 seconds]
e_14159 has joined #kspacademia
technicalfool_ has joined #kspacademia
Technicalfool has quit [Ping timeout: 206 seconds]
GreeningGalaxy has quit [Ping timeout: 190 seconds]
Majiir is now known as Snoozee
technicalfool_ has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
Technicalfool has joined #kspacademia
GreeningGalaxy has joined #kspacademia
<GreeningGalaxy>
!wpn bofh
* Qboid
gives bofh a thyme cohomology
<whitequark>
GreeningGalaxy: basically any AVR part is fine
<whitequark>
they're very similar
<GreeningGalaxy>
cool
<GreeningGalaxy>
Practically speaking I just want a thing that I can stuff into a gizmo and tell it "when these things happen, do this, and when these other things happen, do this other thing" etc, that doesn't cost much and isn't very large (but not so tiny that it's impossible to solder without the patience of a saint and/or an industrial budget)
<GreeningGalaxy>
14-pin SOICs fit the bill perfectly for packaging.
<whitequark>
sure
<GreeningGalaxy>
if I don't need most of the I/Os, I might even get away with soldering them to standard-sized perf, lol
<GreeningGalaxy>
unless I absolutely need two adjacent pins. I'll have to look at the pinout again.
<GreeningGalaxy>
in any case, 14-pin SOIC/TSSOP is the one breakout board we actually have around here, so I'm not worried about mounting.
<GreeningGalaxy>
whitequark: are they the same to the extent that if I find a tutorial for "programming ATTINY{whatever} in assembly", it will work for all or most other ATTINYs?
<GreeningGalaxy>
er, scuse me, that's f"programming ATTINY{whatever} in assembly"
<whitequark>
GreeningGalaxy: programming AVR in assembly
<whitequark>
that's enough
<whitequark>
for any AVR
<GreeningGalaxy>
cool.
<GreeningGalaxy>
ooh, and what's this? Microchip lists the ATTINY20 as having capacitive touch channels?
<GreeningGalaxy>
how much external hardware are those going to take to use? I'm totally getting ahead of myself here but that sounds like fun.
<whitequark>
zero
<whitequark>
avrs dont need external components
<whitequark>
though a bypass cap on power pins is advised as always
<GreeningGalaxy>
sure
<GreeningGalaxy>
wow, that's cool. These little capacitive-touch-activated USB LED lights I got in Shenzhen have a lot of little capacitors and resistors everywhere so I wondered if you had to set up some kind of network outside the MCU to get that working
<GreeningGalaxy>
(they use completely unmarked MCUs so I have no idea what they even are)
<whitequark>
might be masked asics with some sort of standard code
<whitequark>
core*
<whitequark>
8051 or something (it's royalty-free avr is not)
<GreeningGalaxy>
8051 is the one you warned me off with the nRF thing, right?
<whitequark>
yea
<GreeningGalaxy>
how common is it to get an asic made for a product, anyway? I get the idea the process is involved and expensive, but it seems like it's a big business.
<SnoopJeDi>
that's a really good hackaday.com type question
<SnoopJeDi>
Even if I don't really grok the hardware jargon that well
<GreeningGalaxy>
Might check that out tomorrow while avoiding the city drunkards.
<SnoopJeDi>
I will be a drunkard :v
<SnoopJeDi>
There's a rock band in the Houston area that always comes here for St Paddy's and plays lots of good irish-american folk songs
<GreeningGalaxy>
God, I'm constantly horrified by those package styles that have grids of tiny contacts all across the bottom. They're so tiny! You can't even reach them with an iron! How do you know if any of them get bridged on you? aaaaagh
<GreeningGalaxy>
how does the PCB even work with that many contacts in that fine a grid? aaaaaaaaaa
<SnoopJeDi>
Are you talking about ICs, or the contacts on the PCB itself?
<SnoopJeDi>
I think heat guns and reflow are more common for the latter
<Qboid>
whitequark: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<whitequark>
!acr -add:SOD Small Outline Diode
<Qboid>
whitequark: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<whitequark>
!acr -add:SOT Small Outline Transistor
<Qboid>
whitequark: I added the explanation for this acronym.
* whitequark
scratches head
<GreeningGalaxy>
whitequark: what I'm really curious about is how the PCB end of things looks for BGA. Are the traces just super tiny and squeeze between the contacts, or are there crazy numbers of layers, or what
<whitequark>
!acr -add:PoP Package-on-Package
<Qboid>
whitequark: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<whitequark>
!acr -add:COB Chip-On-Board
<Qboid>
whitequark: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<whitequark>
!acr -add:COG Chip-On-Glass
<Qboid>
whitequark: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<whitequark>
I think that's all common ones
<whitequark>
GreeningGalaxy: both
<whitequark>
you need like 6 mil tolerances or lower for most BGA packages
<whitequark>
then you have special "BGA fanout patterns"
<whitequark>
and you need at *least* four layers (in which case, with a large package, you can't use inner balls)
<whitequark>
with six, it's more freedom
<GreeningGalaxy>
wow
<whitequark>
and the total amount of layers on board is basically unlimited
<whitequark>
your motherboard is probably 8 or 10
<whitequark>
specialty boards can go as high as 30-40
<GreeningGalaxy>
I'm so glad it's not my job to design boards like that today. Maybe someday. Not today.
<whitequark>
oh, and the bottom of the BGA package?
<whitequark>
actually, it's another PCB.
<whitequark>
with super extra thin layers and traces.
<GreeningGalaxy>
naak
<SnoopJeDi>
PNW chip industry is hiring like crazy right now
<whitequark>
the IC is bonded out as COB
<SnoopJeDi>
Probably will be even more intense when you're ready to hit the market GreeningGalaxy
<SnoopJeDi>
all the old-timers retiring
<GreeningGalaxy>
probably.
<whitequark>
GreeningGalaxy: there's also interesting things like vias in pads
<whitequark>
which require more expensive boards but ease fanout
<GreeningGalaxy>
I think I've seen something like those autorouted traces by closely examining the back of a microSD card. Lots of organic-looking nonsense going everywhere.
<whitequark>
Intel CPUs also have some sacrificial balls, designed to take a punishment but protect the rest
<whitequark>
GreeningGalaxy: speaking of microSDs
<whitequark>
they use die stacking
<whitequark>
so individual dice are polished until they're as thin as 100 um
<whitequark>
then they're glued in a stack and bonded together, maybe sixteen of them
<GreeningGalaxy>
although I was already kind of running away while still trying to listen as closely as possible when you said "fluorine" and "plasma" in the same sentence.
<whitequark>
nah, it's not actually dangerous
<whitequark>
you don't work with fluorine at any stage
<whitequark>
you use CF4 gas
<whitequark>
this is unfortunately very irritating because you can only get it in like 40L cylinders and you only *need* a few grams of it
<GreeningGalaxy>
heh
<whitequark>
howeeeever you could use regular refrigerants, hell, even R-134a
<whitequark>
it has chlorine, so it will etch metal and silicon too
<GreeningGalaxy>
hey I think you have the same infrared thermometer I have
<whitequark>
random amazon one
<GreeningGalaxy>
random micro center one
<GreeningGalaxy>
does yours also have a very poorly aligned laser sight and make an annoying double-beep every time you release the trigger?
<whitequark>
yes
<GreeningGalaxy>
(I solved the latter problem through invasive surgery on mine)
<GreeningGalaxy>
pried it open, soldered off the beeper, somehow stuffed it back together in a way that worked. It had a lot of loosely-attached pieces that didn't like being let out of the casing.
<whitequark>
GreeningGalaxy: if you click "five more replies" you'll see the end result too
<kmath_>
<NovaSilisko> Got a bunch of adhesive-backed velcro. Beginning in earnest to organize like an astronaut... (this seems up… https://t.co/0NUtCTFgvx
<egg|zzz|egg>
regex: any raspberry plans this yeaR?
<egg|zzz|egg>
s/R/r
<Qboid>
egg|zzz|egg meant to say: regex: any raspberry plans this yeaR?
<whitequark>
egg|zzz|egg: um
<whitequark>
who added that lol
<egg|zzz|egg>
whitequark: Greening did it :-p
<whitequark>
how come it's not in the log
<egg|zzz|egg>
it's in another log :-p
<egg|zzz|egg>
for another channel
<egg|zzz|egg>
crosstalk \o/
<whitequark>
oookay
<egg|zzz|egg>
whitequark: also, currently pondering whether I should make a journal for principia or eggsplain to you how that vector field in-browser thingy can illustrate the wonders of the symplectic form :-p
<whitequark>
mm
<egg|zzz|egg>
maybe I should wait until Greening and Umbral are there, that way I can parallelize eggsplanations >_>
<egg|zzz|egg>
(though tbh it's not like I have much to say)
GreeningGalaxy has joined #kspacademia
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn GreeningGalaxy
* Qboid
gives GreeningGalaxy a GPL'd 2N3904
<egg|zzz|egg>
GreeningGalaxy: I appear to have a job offer!
<egg|zzz|egg>
actually infrastructure to help others doing the i18n properly
<e_14159>
s/properly/automatically
<e_14159>
:P
* Thomas
wonders if egg can now run principia builds on google servers? :D
<egg|zzz|egg>
e_14159: nah, but there's stuff like making sure the translators get screenshots of everything they translate, providing libs for that and coverage etc., tools for automatically flagging CLs that look like they might break i18n for review by i18n people, etc.
<e_14159>
Thomas: That _is_ the only way to run n-body physics. Remember, supercomputers needed.
<egg|zzz|egg>
whitequark: oh yes, you may have escaped that particular meme ^ until principia got started people on the fora were utterly convinced that n-body KSP was impossible because of computational power requirements :D
<egg|zzz|egg>
for all I know people on the fora might still think that, I rarely wander there
<egg|zzz|egg>
tis a silly place
<SnoopJeDi>
hehe e_14159
<SnoopJeDi>
egg|zzz|egg, did you see whitequark's amazing brain-dump from last night
<egg|zzz|egg>
SnoopJeDi: ?
<SnoopJeDi>
GG was talking about soldering and surface mount and that turned into tons of knowledge bombs about electronics
<UmbralRaptor>
No, it's not possible to do n-body on desktop hardware. See: my running out of RAM and swap when trying to advance Principia more than ~100 years >_>
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: I thought that was when building?
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: but mostly that's because of principia keeps histories :-p
<UmbralRaptor>
IIRC, the test built but failed to run.
<egg|zzz|egg>
hah
<UmbralRaptor>
Or, rather tried to run. But then memory...
<UmbralRaptor>
!choose Grade|Spectra|Brown Dwarfs
<Qboid>
UmbralRaptor: Your options are: Grade, Spectra, Brown Dwarfs. My choice: Brown Dwarfs
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: kozai
* UmbralRaptor
should add kozai in there.
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: you should work on kozai over the week-end!
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn UmbralRaptor
* Qboid
gives UmbralRaptor a plutonium 2N2222-like épée
<soundnfury>
!wpn
* Qboid
gives soundnfury a gadolinium python
<UmbralRaptor>
No, Qboid I will not put together circuits to do an analog simulation of the kozai mechanism.
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: especially circuits made out of Pu
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: hmm, Qboid should have a decay chain functionality
<egg|zzz|egg>
probably doable with the existing alias stuff
<egg|zzz|egg>
!slap egg
* Qboid
puts egg into a small box that emulates real life, puts that box on his desk and analyzes his behavior
<egg|zzz|egg>
!slap egg
* Qboid
forks the source code of egg, replaces all semicolons with greek question marks and submits a pull request
egg|phone|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 204 seconds]
icefire has joined #kspacademia
GreeningGalaxy has joined #kspacademia
ferram4 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
ferram4 has joined #kspacademia
<GreeningGalaxy>
I got an nRF24L01+ link working! \o/
<GreeningGalaxy>
the range is surprising. I went all the way down the hall to the lobby (about 7 or 8 meters, through at least three walls) and the signal was still getting through.
ferram4 has quit [Ping timeout: 204 seconds]
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn GreeningGalaxy
* Qboid
gives GreeningGalaxy a semisimple 2N3904
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn UmbralRaptor
* Qboid
gives UmbralRaptor a ⅝λ adjective
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn whitequark
* Qboid
gives whitequark a Hamiltonian 1N4148
<egg|zzz|egg>
so many diodes
<egg|zzz|egg>
also Qboid knows to give the diodes to the eleggtronics people
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn
* Qboid
gives egg|zzz|egg a frustrum
<egg|zzz|egg>
is that a frustrated frustum?
GreeningGalaxy has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
<UmbralRaptor>
Lacking a point is often highly frustrating.
<UmbralRaptor>
!wpn egg|zzz|egg
* Qboid
gives egg|zzz|egg a precessing IOMMU
regex has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
GreeningGalaxy has joined #kspacademia
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn GreeningGalaxy
* Qboid
gives GreeningGalaxy a thorium NaN which strongly resembles an ordinal
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn UmbralRaptor
* Qboid
gives UmbralRaptor a Hamiltonian astronomer
<egg|zzz|egg>
>_>
regex has joined #kspacademia
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn regex
* Qboid
gives regex a boiled wyvern
* UmbralRaptor
was attacked by a wild phonecall.
<UmbralRaptor>
!wpn wyvern
* Qboid
gives wyvern a spectral solution
* egg|zzz|egg
pets UmbralRaptor with a cat
* UmbralRaptor
is allergic. =\
* egg|zzz|egg
pets UmbralRaptor with a bird
<UmbralRaptor>
birb!
* egg|zzz|egg
is supposed to be allergic, from some test that showed antibodies for that, but then tends to put his nose on/pet ANBOcat without issues?
* UmbralRaptor
is confused.
<soundnfury>
!wpn UmbralRaptor
* Qboid
gives UmbralRaptor a venomous standing wave ratio
<egg|zzz|egg>
!choose zzz|notzzz
<Qboid>
egg|zzz|egg: Your options are: zzz, notzzz. My choice: notzzz
<egg|zzz|egg>
;choose zzz|notzzz
<kmath_>
egg|zzz|egg: zzz
<egg|zzz|egg>
botsplit
<UmbralRaptor>
egg|zzz|egg: zzznot
<soundnfury>
egg|zzz|egg: I tossed a coin and got heads for zeds. Does that help?
* UmbralRaptor
shoots the zeds in the head. Twice.
<egg|zzz|egg>
z
<soundnfury>
UmbralRaptor: stop filling my zeds' heads with lead! You'll make them dead!
<egg|zzz|egg>
z
* UmbralRaptor
*blam* *blam*
<soundnfury>
!wpn
* Qboid
gives soundnfury a venomous ruby
* soundnfury
uses the ruby to build a venomous LASER, and aims it at UmbralRaptor
<UmbralRaptor>
!wpn
* Qboid
gives UmbralRaptor a stochastic Bucket O' Nitrogens™
<soundnfury>
was that made in Krapotke's lab?
* UmbralRaptor
pours the buck of nitrogens on the LASER and hopes something happens.
<soundnfury>
I suppose, if it's stochastic, you don't really know whether anything will happen or not
<UmbralRaptor>
!wpn -add:wpn wombat
<Qboid>
UmbralRaptor: Weapon added!
<UmbralRaptor>
!wpn -add:wpn quokka
<Qboid>
UmbralRaptor: Weapon added!
<SilverFox>
!wpn add walnut
* Qboid
gives add walnut a projective lance
<soundnfury>
WOMBAT?
<soundnfury>
come on, that has to be an acronym
<SilverFox>
!wpn -add:wpn walnut
<Qboid>
SilverFox: Weapon added!
<soundnfury>
!acr -add:WOMBAT Waste Of Money, Brains And Time
<Qboid>
soundnfury: I added the explanation for this acronym.