egg changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Germain. We currently target 1.8.1, 1.9.1, 1.10.1, and 1.11.0. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — oh so it's about cpu usage
<discord-> e​gg. — it’s only the max steps part that will melt your CPU, the tolerance controls how precise the work is (and inversely how far it goes), not how much work is done
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<discord-> D​amien (it/that). — Thanks for clarifying
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<discord-> C​aravans of Rockets. — does raptop command work outside principia channel?
<raptop> ...
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — Yes, but when raptop is working elsewhere, raptop is probably not working in the principia channel.
<raptop> raptop is currently recovering from quals
<raptop> (hopefully they passed both, and are done with that silliness)
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — If they pass the quals, is that like passing a Turing Test? (... I couldn't resist.)
<raptop> Yes, if being an astronomer is like being a human
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — Hm. An astrology qual would make a better Turing-analog.
* raptop throws an angry ♏︎at DRVeyl
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — 🙂
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — (And on a more serious note... after-the-fact best of luck!)
<raptop> thanks
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — I... can't tell if this is sarcasm or not
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — it probably is
<discord-> C​aravans of Rockets. — nope, genuine question, unfortunately
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — So which is steps and which is tolerance?
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — wait, I see tolerance
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — That's how accurate it is. Steps is how far out the prediction goes?
<discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — correct
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — How do I interpret the config for steps?
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — I'm in orbit around kerbin. If I turn steps way up it shows I will eventually decay back down
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — But how do I know when that will be?
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — length of step or number of iterations?
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — Under prediction settings
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — Tolerance: X.Ym
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — Steps: X.YZeN
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — screenshot?
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — so tolerance I'm guessing is how accurate it is down to the meter
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — ah yeah
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — your assumption is correct
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — and steps is the number of steps, obviously
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — and then steps is just the number of steps Principia is calculating
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — so in this case, the number of orbits?
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — no, the number of segments that are <tolerance> metres long
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — you may want to read up on what X.XXeY means
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — gotcha
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — it essentially means X.xx * 10^Y, which is just scientific notation
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — you may want to read up on what X.xx eY means (edited)
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — I kind of figured that
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — you have a 100 metre tolerance
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — The prediction settings has no bearing on what actually happen, correct? It's just to allow you to see with more or less accuracy what will happen in the future
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — I'm not sure you should have a 100 metre tolerance.
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — 1x10^2 = 100
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — What's a good baseline setting?
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — probably 1 metre or so
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — at least, in planetary gravity wells
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — I'm in love
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — Just by messing around with the maneuvering around the Mun and Kerbin, this is SOOO COOL
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — I can't believe I haven't tried Principia before today. It's truly incredible
<discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — Just to clarify a discussion from elsewhere, must Principia start dates be >/= 1583 because that is one year of history after the start of the Gregorian calendar, or because that is one year of history before the first known flying human (Russian man executed by sitting on top of a barrel of gunpowder)?
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<discord-> c​ptmiche. — Munar Orbit!
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — cries in ancient East Asian kites
<discord-> S​umguy. — that's the year that the simulation began
<raptop> not 1970-01-01T00:00:00Z?
<discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — The discussion from elsewhere also mentioned that, but noted that Principia uses more Russian in its inner workings and naming scheme, and assumed that it favoured Russians
<raptop> Nah, it's just that egg wanted to propely solve the Чебышёв problem
<discord-> s​cimas. — Feature suggestion: evolve the stock system backwards one (Kerbin) year in time and use that as the starting point. Then start the game with 1 year history as you do with RSS. Might help new players a bit if they can go to tracking station and immediately see some orbits rather than just circles of planets; or even on their first Munar mission it would be helpful.
<raptop> Hrm, the "stock" Principia setup already moves Jool's moons around, so it's NBD if some of the planets need to be fudged
<discord-> s​cimas. — Yeah, the backwards simulation will need to be done with the retrobop fix in place.
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — can we even iterate n-body backwards? this is not something that I have experience in
<discord-> s​cimas. — Newtonian physics is entirely agnostic to the direction of time. I don't see any issues with that, on the other hand there might be some quirks to the integrators themselves that make them more suitable to a particular temporal direction but I doubt it.
<discord-> §​κyℓαr ♀. — Im sorry what? Lol
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<discord-> A​shnoom. — How worthwhile is it too try and get a polar orbit around the moon in low moon orbit for ~90 days
<discord-> A​shnoom. — How worthwhile is it to try and get a polar orbit around the moon in low moon orbit for ~90 days (edited)
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — If you hit 86° inclination and a 100 x 100 km orbit, you should be able to stay in orbit for a while
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — With the new feature to show orbit analysis on the end of a flight plan, you can check if you get into a stable orbit around the moon
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — if you are looking for non-low orbits, you might want to check out this: https://discord.com/channels/319857228905447436/480397772248580098/784305190240387082
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — frozen orbit
<discord-> A​shnoom. — Thanks experimental. I was specifically looking for LMO :-) For Science!
<discord-> S​tandecco. — are hoomans Turing complete, raptop?
<discord-> S​tandecco. — incredible to think that a modern AI can be an astronomer
<raptop> techincally no one has ever made a true turing machine
<raptop> (there's a finite number of computations that you can do in the universe, see...)
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — As an engineer I would argue that anything that is 'large enough' can be treated as infinite as an approximation 😜
<discord-> S​tandecco. — I would too, but astronomers classify medium hot as 10000K and above, so they have different scales
<discord-> S​tandecco. — that's probably even lower than medium hot
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Yeah... Stars are hot
<UmbralRaptor> 10000 K would be what A0?
<UmbralRaptor> (but yes, infinite and continuous approximations are useful, and the cows often don't need high order harmonics)
<discord-> S​tandecco. — > 10000 K would be what A0?
<discord-> S​tandecco. — you tell me 😛
<discord-> S​tandecco. — > 10000 K would be what A0?
<discord-> S​tandecco. — you tell me \:p (edited)
<discord-> S​tandecco. — I'm always puzzled by irc usernames changing continuously
<discord-> S​tandecco. — I'm always puzzled by irc usernames changing continuously, having never used irc (edited)
<discord-> D​amien (it/that). — Beware, you'll lose interest in ksp as anything other than a platform for playing with principia. The mission is no longer important, only how complex and interesting you can execute it
<discord-> D​amien (it/that). — Want a Mun orbiter? Hohmann transfer is too boring. Instead do a low energy transfer and ballistic capture via Sun-Kerbin L1, just because
<discord-> D​amien (it/that). — Beware, you'll lose interest in ksp as anything other than a platform for playing with principia. The mission is no longer important, only how complex and interestingly you can execute it (edited)
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Hey! that saves a lot on capture dV... it *is* worth it, I think 😅
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<discord-> c​ptmiche. — Thats honestly is what attracted me to the ide of using principia
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — Thats honestly is what attracted me to the idea of using principia (edited)
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — How historical probes used these crazy maneuvers to get places almost for free
<discord-> D​amien (it/that). — the historical (space race rea) ones tended to use boring trajectories because they didn't have the computers we have in the modern day, but many modern ones use exotic trajectories
<discord-> D​amien (it/that). — the historical (space race rea) ones tended to use boring trajectories because they didn't have the computers we have in the modern day, but many modern ones use exotic trajectories (edited)
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — for reference: see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3PCCJZzVvg
<raptop> Standecco: well, it depends on if you have multiuple machines logged in for the username changes
<raptop> And to rephrase slightly: "10,000 K would be, what, A0?"
<raptop> (ie: the spectral type)
<raptop> Vega is A0V, etc
<discord-> b​adgermasher. — Isn't 10K over the hump for Balmer series absorption? I'd have to actually check a table.
<discord-> b​adgermasher. — Isn't 10e3 K over the hump for Balmer series absorption? I'd have to actually check a table. (edited)
<discord-> b​adgermasher. — Ah, yeah A0 is right, don't mind me
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<discord-> S​tandecco. — well it's 10e4
<raptop> I meant 10e3
<raptop> 10e4 would be what, O2?
<discord-> B​utcher. — Just gained a cat, think we can teach him orbital mechanics?
<raptop> Yes, as demonstrated by numerous pictures (Leroy and Leroy 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, etc)
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<discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — "Leroy and Leroy" referring to pictures of egg and pleroy, or is there a cat named Leroy who is associated with principia as well?
<raptop> referring to egg and pleroy
<raptop> I guess I could have described ANBOcat as a coauthor
<discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — ANBOcat?
<discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — <https://twitter.com/eggleroy/status/1123556005042970624> This cat?
<raptop> Yep, that cat
<discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — Does ANBO stand for anything?
<raptop> Anglo-Norman Bovine Observatory
<raptop> It started as a joke about egg and a person in another channel observing cows from their homes
<discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — I used to be able to do that
<discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — all those cows are probably consumed by now
<raptop> burgers and tacos: annoyingly environmentally unfriendly for how good they taste
<discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — Rice and beans taste better
* raptop drifted into chicken and morningstar farms
<raptop> though yes, you can do a lot wrt tacos and burritos with beans, rice, various vegetables, and various spices
<discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — or just eat the beans and rice with no spices
* raptop stares
<discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — what?
<discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — Spices are good, but it is still good plane
<discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — I just ate a plane potato
<raptop> a potato with no curvature
<discord-> B​utcher. — Plane or plain?
<discord-> B​utcher. — A potato with no thickness.
<discord-> B​utcher. — Insubstantial.
<raptop> But infinite length and width
<discord-> B​utcher. — This giant potato will destroy us all.
<raptop> (Do those act like delta-functions, giving us a finite volume?)
<discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — plain*
<discord-> B​utcher. — Is the finite volume zero?
<discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — It was an oblate spheroid about 11 cm long, 8 cm wide
<raptop> Presumably her potato and a non-zero number of calories, so doubtful
<discord-> B​utcher. — I had szechuan meatballs. Seems better than a plain potato.
<discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — I also had a chocolate ensure, guacamole, and six tangerines
<discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — The potatoe was jsut my snack
<discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — The potato was just my snack (edited)
<raptop> nom
<discord-> B​utcher. — Ensure?
<raptop> liquid meal thing, compare with slimfast or soylent
<discord-> B​utcher. — Oh, grim.
<discord-> B​utcher. — Huel seems big here.
<discord-> B​utcher. — Rhymes with gruel.
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — hmm, seems that all the potatoes that I have seen are approximated by triaxial ellipsoids at best
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — and when they're spheroidal, they're usually prolate