egg changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Гельфонд. We currently target 1.8.1, 1.9.1, and 1.10.1. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
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<discord->
nightmare alt. — what is principia?
<raptop>
Principia is a mod for KSP (Kerbal Space Program) that provides true n-body gravity
<raptop>
as such, it gets you things like lagrange points, halo orbits, etc
<raptop>
It also modesl how various planets and moons have non-spherical gravity (where data is available), most notably the Moon's masscons
<raptop>
It also has the best variable names and the most fun comments in the code
<discord->
Damien (it/that). — There a Scott Manley video on it that's worth a watch, albeit on an old version
<discord->
nightmare alt. — thx
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<discord->
DarthPointer. — An easy way to quit the idea ``KSP = simulator``
<discord->
DarthPointer. — Oh damn forgot to remove ping...
<discord->
Conventia. — Does principia have some ui that shows lagrange points? Or perhaps the distances?
<discord->
egg. — no, because it doesn’t actually have a reference frame where those exist.
<discord->
egg. — just use the noodles to feel where they are
<raptop>
Something something lagrange points are technically a 3 body simplification, and n is often >> 3
<raptop>
...2 bodies and a test mass, I guess
<discord->
egg. — that’s not even the primary issue
<discord->
egg. — Lagrange points are a property of the ER3BP
<discord->
egg. — but that frame is *weird*
<discord->
egg. — in that frame (for the Earth-Moon case), the Earth shrinks and dilates over the course of a month
<raptop>
wait, what?
<discord->
egg. — Lagrange points are a property of the rotating-pulsating frame in the ER3BP (edited)
<raptop>
tides flexing the planet?
<discord->
egg. — no, just a pulsating reference frame
<discord->
egg. — nothing physical here
<raptop>
Or, well, the moon's eggcentricity making the frame pulse?
<discord->
egg. — yes
<discord->
egg. — in that frame, the centres of both bodies are fixed
<discord->
egg. — and Lagrange points are a thing you can define
<discord->
Conventia. — I was mostly looking for approximate distance so I know where to point the noodle. 😛
<discord->
Stonesmile. — What lagrange point are you going to?
<discord->
Conventia. — The wikipedia page has a table for the real solar system, but I'm playing with JNSQ currently, so that's not helpful. 😛
<discord->
egg. — L4 and L5 are geometrically easy, otherwise I guess for that the answer is « do the calculations » and eventually « get an intuiation for it »
<discord->
DarthPointer. — I guess it would be useful to have a ``!lschema`` bot command.
<discord->
Conventia. — I was just randomly trying to find Kerbin/Mun L2 in JNSQ.
<discord->
egg. — yeah, go to the Lagrange point wikipedia page, I think it has formulæ for the distances
<discord->
egg. — On a completely unrelated note, does anybody know how one actually gets parts out of the inventories (and how one does the whole welding thing) in the new KSP?
<discord->
Conventia. — It does.
<raptop>
L1/2/3 are actually calculable with newtonian mechanics (not using lagrangian mechanics may invoke the wrath of the egg, though)
<discord->
Stonesmile. — There are some yt videos of going to the mun in stock, the same method should apply
<discord->
egg. — meh, do what you want, it’s all equivalent, if you like forces use them
<raptop>
hm
<discord->
egg. — I don’t think I’ve ever touched a Lagrangian anyway, only Hamiltonians
<discord->
egg. — Hamiltonions 🧅
<discord->
DarthPointer. — At least one point where everybody could predict something in principia with school-level calculations xD
<discord->
egg. — anyway, does anyone know how KSP 1.11 works
<discord->
DarthPointer. — Wrong server I guess xD
<discord->
egg. — eh, it’s technically the RO server but it’s the principia channel, plenty of non-RO folks here
<discord->
DarthPointer. — AFAIK most ppl with principia run heavy modpacks
<discord->
Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — But not necessarily RO
<discord->
Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — When I first installed Principia, I had stock system, no part packs other than life support, and under 40 mods total
<discord->
DarthPointer. — What is the reason for stock mnvr planner being so inaccurate in closest approach indication? With principia I easily plan a 10m rendez-vous while without principia having a 100m prediction can be either 100m or 10 or a collision.
<discord->
egg. — I’m not sure, the actual motion is not that inaccurate as far as I recall so I guess it’s whatever they use to estimate the closest approach?
<discord->
DarthPointer. — I have not dared to test it that close but the results after "suicide-brun for intercept" were amazingly close to flight plan. At least for low Kerbin orbit within 2-3 periods.
<discord->
egg. — yeah with Principia the accuracy should be about the same order of magnitude as your chosen prediction tolerance
<discord->
Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — If you install Principia+FAR, most of the physics are by mods and not KSP... 🤔
<discord->
Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — That is not better realism is it?
<discord->
Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — That is not better realism, is it? (edited)
<discord->
DRVeyl. — It doesn't try to replace thermal physics at all. It somewhat tries to address internal heat generation and a tie to radiators
<raptop>
Proposal: Maxwell (and later Planck) mods
<discord->
Stonesmile. — Ah, not as in-depth as I hoped then 😕
* raptop
is to be clear not serious because of the level of work involved
<discord->
Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — It is easier to get heating basics right than to get gravity and aerodynamic basics right, I assume
<discord->
DRVeyl. — For extremely broad definition of "right"
<discord->
egg. — aaauugh why do they explicitly regenerate the flight ID when welding parts
<discord->
DarthPointer. — AHahhahahahAHhahhahah. Does KIS/KAS avoid this?
<discord->
Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — I thought it had bugs otherwise?
<discord->
Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — I thought it had more bugs otherwise? (edited)
<discord->
egg. — @Drillboy Jenkins I don’t know, I haven’t looked
<discord->
egg. — also it looks like they create the parts at the wrong time or something, because adding parts offsets the vessel along its orbit (i.e. I am getting a timing error in the initial state)
<discord->
DarthPointer. — I have not seen any issues reported with principia + KIS/KAS (at least I don't remember). I guess you are looking into the guts of the stock welding and there is something that breaks the things apart with principia.
<discord->
egg. — well they regenerate the part ID, which means we can’t tell that it’s the same part, which means reactionless drive
<discord->
egg. — admittedly we probably have that issue with kerbals getting in and out of vessels already
<discord->
DarthPointer. — Dog Bless Kraken this happens in 100% cases, not 1%, huh?