egg changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Germain. We currently target 1.8.1, 1.9.1, 1.10.1, and 1.11.0. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
<discord-> D​amien (it/that). — Egg doing QoL improvements. We really are living in a simulation
<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] pleroy commented on pull request #2870: Fix keming in the bibliography - https://git.io/JtsAW
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<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2872: Deflake the jthread test - https://git.io/JtsA9
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<discord-> e​gg. — @Damien what’s next, egg thinking about career mode ?
<discord-> e​gg. — (did a tiny bit of poking around KerbalismContracts)
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — single solar panel... communications equipment... Starlink constellation+
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — single solar panel... communications equipment... Starlink constellation? (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — nah I was looking at imaging
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — hmm, interesting
<discord-> e​gg. — (the map shows resolution from a 19,1 cm telescope on that sat observing in 600 nm light, assuming no atmosphere, red < 1 m, orange < 10 m, yellow < 100 m)
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<raptop> all hail mollewiede
<discord-> D​amien (it/that). — It's true. 2021 is a simulation
<discord-> e​gg. — (for those unfamiliar, KerbalismContracts comes from regular discussions in this channel with SirMortimer, DRVeyl, et al., see also <https://github.com/Kerbalism/KerbalismContracts/wiki/Design>)
<discord-> e​gg. — Also in case you are wondering, this is what the resolution looks like if you put that same instrument on a kerbostationar satellite
<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] daantimmer opened issue #2873: Hard CTD when deleting a flight plan after it has finished - https://git.io/Jtspd
<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] eggrobin commented on issue #2873: Hard CTD when deleting a flight plan after it has finished - https://git.io/Jtspp
<discord-> e​gg. — Also in case you are wondering, this is what the resolution looks like if you put that same instrument on a kerbostationary satellite (edited)
<discord-> §​κyℓαr ♀. — Ooo neat
<discord-> e​gg. — …or on a very silly-looking aircraft.
<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] daantimmer closed issue #2873: Hard CTD when deleting a flight plan after it has finished - https://git.io/Jtspd
<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] daantimmer commented on issue #2873: Hard CTD when deleting a flight plan after it has finished - https://git.io/JtshO
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — ah yes, in 2021 we'll finally see Principia add spy plane support
<discord-> A​shnoom. — egg, sorry for that duplicate!
<discord-> A​shnoom. — egg, sorry for that duplicate report! (edited)
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — (also, may we talk about how egg is still running version Гельфонд)
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<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — (actually, probably not)
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — (also minmus)
<discord-> e​gg. — Well, 165 commits + uncommited changes after Гельфонд, but yes, that’s a bit silly; I since switched to a Germain+something while testing a fix for a flight plan bug
<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] eggrobin labeled issue #2873: Hard CTD when deleting a flight plan after it has finished - https://git.io/Jtspd
<discord-> e​gg. — @Ashnoom can you still reliably reproduce your issue https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/2867 ? I have encountered it once but despite my best efforts I utterly failed to come across it again; we have an idea how to possibly fix it, but obviously if we can’t reproduce it we can’t see if we actually fixed anything
<discord-> A​shnoom. — I'll have to try tomorrow. Currently under the sheets
<discord-> K​erbinator. — well yep, "rough accuracy"
<discord-> K​erbinator. — however there is a problem: part-part effect
<discord-> K​erbinator. — because leakage of shock wave will instantly cause severe fall on L/D
<discord-> K​erbinator. — because leakage of shock wave will instantly cause severe fall on L/D (mainly, loss of L) (edited)
<discord-> K​erbinator. — so this is highly integrated with tha parts attached
<discord-> K​erbinator. — so it's gotta be problematic to decide the leakage condition of the edges
<discord-> K​erbinator. — and another problem is high-part-count vessels which may get into trouble because there are too much wave generators 🤔
<discord-> e​gg. — part-based aerodynamics cannot work, but this is a problem that has been addressed by FAR years ago with voxelization
<discord-> K​erbinator. — however how is the wave formed?
<discord-> K​erbinator. — by determining radius of curvature?
<discord-> K​erbinator. — it seems that FAR still lack field effect
<discord-> K​erbinator. — intergrating field effect may cause post-voxel thingy
<discord-> K​erbinator. — currently it do hypersonic just as multiplier of drag
<discord-> K​erbinator. — making wave drag high but wave lift very low
<discord-> e​gg. — The difficulty is in doing some optimized subset of CFD to the model, and sometimes in deriving a good enough model from the parts (this is mostly an issue when it comes to wings), not so much in getting rid of parts (which has been dealt with by FAR since FAR Euler in May 2015)
<discord-> K​erbinator. — currently it 'fake' hypersonic just as multiplier of drag
<discord-> K​erbinator. — making wave drag high but wave lift very low (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — The difficulty is in doing some optimized approximation of the outcome of CFD to the model, and sometimes in deriving a good enough model from the parts (this is mostly an issue when it comes to wings), not so much in getting rid of parts (which has been dealt with by FAR since FAR Euler in May 2015) (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — I suppose @ferram4 may be able to comment more informatively on the specific difficulties
<discord-> e​gg. — The difficulty is in doing some optimized approximation of the outcome of CFD to the model, and sometimes in deriving a good enough model from the shape of the parts (this is mostly an issue when it comes to wings, whose properties are not resolved in the 3d model and must guessed), not so much in getting rid of parts (which has been dealt with by FAR since FAR Euler in May 2015) (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — The difficulty is in doing some optimized approximation of the outcome of CFD to the model, and sometimes in deriving a good enough model from the shape of the parts (this is mostly an issue when it comes to wings, whose properties are not resolved in the 3d model and must be guessed), not so much in getting rid of parts (which has been dealt with by FAR since FAR Euler in May 2015) (edited)
<discord-> K​erbinator. — 👀 good he's still here
<discord-> K​erbinator. — so about dkavolis FARc? 👀🤔
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<discord-> e​gg. — I suppose @ferram4 may be able to comment more informatively on the specifics (edited)
<discord-> §​κyℓαr ♀. — I had no idea ferram was in this chat lol
<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] VincentThacker commented on issue #2867: Hard CTD when using the slider to change the tangent after modifying the initial time using its slider. - https://git.io/JtGgh
<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] VincentThacker edited a comment on issue #2867: Hard CTD when using the slider to change the tangent after modifying the initial time using its slider. - https://git.io/JtGgh
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<discord-> f​erram4. — The difficulty shows up in handling all the little effects in real-time for that sort of thing
<discord-> f​erram4. — Ideal wave rider at or above its ideal Mach number? Should be easy enough, the calculations for a conical shockwave are a small numeric mess, but the results can be put in a lookup table to make it easy
<discord-> f​erram4. — Ideal wave rider below its ideal Mach number? Now the leakage calcs get nasty. Ideal wave rider in sideslip? Okay, now you've got weird unbalanced leakage to deal with
<discord-> f​erram4. — *Real* wave rider that doesn't just have a shock at the bow, but a bunch elsewhere? Now you're handling shock-shock interactions and I'm not 100% certain where to even start with that
<discord-> f​erram4. — Lots of that could be tabulated out and stored, but you'd have huge lookup tables to reference for all the Mach numbers, pitch angles, sideslip angles, etc. in flight. Not cheap to precalculate and not cheap in memory usage
<discord-> f​erram4. — Bright side is that it is *potentially* more well-specified than the fuzzy logic "is this a wing" sort of geometry stuff I was trying to do to update the wing-specific calculations to something less terrible, so some form of a wave glider sim could probably be implemented and debugged faster if it proves to be possible to implement in real time with minimal impact on overhead
<discord-> f​erram4. — Keeping overhead down is a big part of FAR's design requirements. It can't slow down things to do things in slower-than-real-time
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<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] pleroy commented on pull request #2870: Fix keming in the bibliography - https://git.io/JtG7L
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<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2872: Deflake the jthread test - https://git.io/JtsA9
<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2872: Deflake the jthread test - https://git.io/JtsA9
<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] pleroy pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/JtGFk
<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] pleroy aa7e59b - Deflake.
<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] pleroy bdeabdb - Merge pull request #2872 from pleroy/Jthread Deflake the jthread test
<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #2870: Fix keming in the bibliography - https://git.io/JtsK3
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<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] pleroy closed issue #2856: BibTeX, capitalization, and kerning - https://git.io/JLhD9
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<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] pleroy pushed 4 commits to master [+0/-0/±8] https://git.io/JtGbv
<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] pleroy 4bbf555 - Fix kerning.
<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] pleroy 805013b - Overfull hbox.
<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] pleroy 7756fab - Merge branch 'master' into 2856
<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] pleroy 9f3bab7 - Merge pull request #2870 from pleroy/2856 Fix keming in the bibliography
<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2870: Fix keming in the bibliography - https://git.io/JtsK3
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<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] eggrobin commented on issue #2867: Hard CTD when using the slider to change the tangent after modifying the initial time using its slider. - https://git.io/JtZJr
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<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] daantimmer commented on issue #2867: Hard CTD when using the slider to change the tangent after modifying the initial time using its slider. - https://git.io/JtZLb
<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] eggrobin opened pull request #2874: Fix a bug or two with short orbit analyses - https://git.io/JtZtW
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<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] eggrobin commented on issue #2867: Hard CTD when using the slider to change the tangent after modifying the initial time using its slider. - https://git.io/JtZtw
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<discord-> A​shnoom. — @egg I assume I don't have to try reproducing the issue linked above since you already have steps to reproduce ánd a fix?
<discord-> e​gg. — Yeah don't bother
<discord-> e​gg. — Now you know how to avoid it even
<discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — When is the fix being released?
<discord-> i​ identify as a SSME. — are stable polar moon orbits possible to achive in principia ? ( like this one as an example )
<discord-> B​utcher. — @egg would you consider an interim release before the next moon if there were a serious enough issue?
<discord-> D​amien (it/that). — @Multyino perfectly polar orbits are generally stable, yes
* raptop eyes the crepescular demons
<discord-> e​gg. — @Butcher if it’s a serious enough issue it is generally yelled about within hours, in that case we look at it at once and try to do something about it and delete and recreate the release, this has happened in the past
<discord-> e​gg. — if it takes more than a couple of days it’s generally not catastrophic
<discord-> B​utcher. — Fair enough.
<discord-> B​utcher. — Given the user base anything that critical would become apparent quickly.
<discord-> e​gg. — see, e.g., https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/commits/master/README.md for Frobenius
<discord-> i​ identify as a SSME. — this would imply that even low orbits could be stable is that true ? i only found stable high eliptical orbits ( such as the LRO )
<discord-> e​gg. — @Multyino see the pinned paper by Lara
<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] pleroy reviewed pull request #2874 commit - https://git.io/JtZcf
<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] eggrobin synchronize pull request #2874: Fix a bug or two with short orbit analyses - https://git.io/JtZtW
<discord-> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — I just wasn't sure if it would make it into that release or if it would be the next
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<_whitenotifier-8975> [Principia] pleroy labeled pull request #2874: Fix a bug or two with short orbit analyses - https://git.io/JtZtW
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — Has anyone encountered an issue where the game, upon startup gets stuck loading the magnetometer?
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — which magnetometer?
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — also, it may seem that this isn't a principia issue
<discord-> c​ptmiche. — You know what, it may be me. I just realized I didn't do a fresh install when adding principia.
<discord-> (​experimentalshells?). — oh, you should probably do that
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<discord-> c​ptmiche. — I just realized what I was doing wrong. I was installed the github versions of RO and RP-1 incorrectly. Sorry all!
<discord-> s​iimav. — There's nothing wrong with getting the master branches of RO or RP-1
<discord-> D​amien (it/that). — it's not a simple thing to answer but this wiki page will likely have references you can look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_orbit#Lunar_frozen_orbits
<discord-> i​ identify as a SSME. — thanks for sending my some informational material. Just to be sure if i get a probe there it will propably be sitting there ? ( just making sure because i dont want to spend 2-5 h of planning and executing a mission that in the end wont fufill its promise )
<discord-> i​ identify as a SSME. — thanks for sending my some informational material. Just to be sure if i get a probe there it will propably be sitting there ( in the sense that it wont crash into the moon like normal orbits )? ( just making sure because i dont want to spend 2-5 h of planning and executing a mission that in the end wont fufill its promise ) (edited)
<discord-> y​our friendly moon. — I used the orbit of the LRM it was frozen until about 10 years where it crashed into the moon
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