egg changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Гельфонд. We currently target 1.8.1, 1.9.1, and 1.10.1. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
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<discord->
Butcher. — Office cat is ready for some n-body gravity.
<raptop>
...though Butcher's office cat appears to be rather smol
<discord->
Butcher. — She is, malnourished as a kitten. 😿
<raptop>
:(
<discord->
Butcher. — Much improved now - she's twice the size of when we got her.
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<seclat>
Hey guys, the readme suggests compatibility through 1.10.1, but the install tutorial states that Principia is only targets KSP up to 1.8.1. Can someone confirm which is correct?
<discord->
Damien (it/that). — the readme
<discord->
MISSHON COMPREE. — I am using it in 1.10.1 and it works fine
<discord->
Damien (it/that). — readme is constantly updated. rest of the wiki, less so
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — @seclat to be clear, the changelog mentions that Fubini was the first release to support 1.9, Gateaux was the first release to support 1.10.
<seclat>
Ok thank you, I've confirmed it's loading in 1.9.1 with RSS. Is Principia compatible with the Mission Builder? I ask because I'm an engineer working at Masten Space Systems, who currently have a lunar lander mission coming up in a couple years. I thought it would be fun to set up a scenario to start right after TLI for some of us to play through.
<seclat>
Maybe the better way to do this is to create a new save and edit the orbit in the savefile manually. I don't necessarily need all the trappings of the mission builder.
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — You're an engineer at Masten? That's seriously impressive! But as for your scenario, I would fly your mission to TLI, create a save then, and export that.
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — It's always incredibly cool to see KSP being used in practical settings.
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — You're an engineer at Masten? That's seriously impressive! But as for your scenario, I would **fly your mission to TLI, create a save then,** and export that. (edited)
<discord->
lpg. — "edit the orbit in the savefile manually" isn't really a practical thing to do with principia
<discord->
lpg. — "edit the orbit in the savefile manually" isn't really a feasible thing with principia (edited)
<_whitenotifier-8975>
[Principia] eggrobin pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/Jtf2S
<seclat>
KSP is honestly a godsend for everyone in the industry--it does a great job of dispelling the stigma of unapproachability that aerospace has suffered from historically, and it's a fantastic teaching/learning tool. Really grateful to the KSP and the modding community for keeping it alive and evolving.
<discord->
egg. — Speaking of which, 🌑
<seclat>
Ok, flying to an initial state will be tough, since I'm trying to initialize at a fairly specific set of orbital conditions, but I'll poke a bit and see where I end up.
<discord->
lpg. — alt-f12 debug menu, Hack Gravity will let you "turn off" principia for that one vessel long enough to hyperedit it into a specific (ish) orbit
<discord->
egg. — you could cheat yourself into appropriate osculating elements if you have those in ICRS coordinates
<discord->
egg. — (note obviously that for that to be correct you really need osculating elements, not something based on a perturbation theory that knows about dynamical oblateness, since KSP is unaware of the things we do to it)
<seclat>
Ah ok, I was wondering if hyperedit might work here. How/where would those osculating elements be set? Hyperedit still?
<discord->
egg. — hyperedit or just the cheat menu (alt+f12) > cheats > set orbit I think
<discord->
egg. — you need to check the « hack gravity » checkbox under cheats for Principia to turn a blind eye to your vessel, otherwise it will override any change to the orbit
<discord->
egg. — (and then you need to uncheck it once you are where you want to be)
<seclat>
Ok understood. And ideally I'd be able to just set the UTC date/time to our expected launch date, but I suspect that orbital motion isn't coherent with reality over that long a period, eh? There's probably a way to override the orbital elements of the Earth and Moon at T0 instead.
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — No, you can just warp to 2022
<discord->
egg. — The orbital motion might be half-decent depending on your constraints (our lunar eclipses are a couple of minutes off in 2000), the more annoying thing is warping to 2022
<discord->
egg. — which takes time
<discord->
egg. — but you can use a custom initial state that starts you later
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — ah, that's a better solution
<discord->
Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — Can that be pinned, please?
<discord->
egg. — it is
<discord->
Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — Oh, sorry. I was not expecting someone else linking it to be pinned
<discord->
Damien (it/that). — @egg how much would you say you've learned from, or needed to study for, developing principia vs it just being an application of existing knowledge?
<discord->
egg. — (and yes, reading the Capderou book was also driven by this)
<discord->
Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — How big is the Principia pile compared to all other papers you read?
<discord->
egg. — now, were it not for training in numerical analysis I would never have *started*, so this does play a role
<discord->
Damien (it/that). — just a thought because you throw out a lot of (to me) mathematics terms in your patch notes and I wondered how much of that is existing knowledge and how much was you having an engineering need and having to research the mathematical information to achieve it
<discord->
Damien (it/that). — just a thought because you throw out a lot of (to me)
<discord->
Damien (it/that). — obscure mathematics terms in your patch notes and I wondered how much of that is existing knowledge and how much was you having an engineering need and having to research the mathematical information to achieve it (edited)
<discord->
egg. — and a lot of technical decisions are informed by the maths background (everything is a Lie group, multivectors, etc.)
<discord->
Damien (it/that). — just a thought because you throw out a lot of (to me)
<discord->
Damien (it/that). — obscure mathematics terms in your patch notes and I wondered how much of that is existing knowledge and how much was you having an engineering need and having to research the mathematical information to achieve it (edited)
<discord->
Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — Principia has probably been a better teacher than most professors, correct?
<discord->
egg. — That’s not really a meaningful comparison, few courses last seven years, and a lot of time is spent on things that are not research (there is an actual KSP mod somewhere in there)
<discord->
egg. — Again, were it not for educational background, the mod would just not be
<egg|anbo|egg>
seclat: which means I’m afraid that you should download the mod again, lest you immediately be faced with a message informing you that the new moon has arrived :-p
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<discord->
Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — > The flight plan analyser is now integrated with the flight plan, and may be used to determine the shape of the trajectory at the end of the plan. This makes it possible to create flight plans which, if executed correctly, will put the vessel in an orbit with the desired characteristics.
egg changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Germain. We currently target 1.8.1, 1.9.1, 1.10.1, and 1.11.0. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
<seclat>
@egg|anbo|egg Ok thanks for the heads up. And these initial state cfg files--is the intent just that I remove the default "initial_state_jd_2433282_500000000.cfg" file and copy in the new one, or do I need to update a file reference in some other higher-level cfg file?
<egg|anbo|egg>
just remove the 1950 one and drop in the one of your choice
<egg|anbo|egg>
seclat: oh, bear in mind that the clock is TT, *not* UTC
<discord->
Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — (But it messes with old saves)
<discord->
Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — (But it messes with old saves, so don't do that) (edited)
<discord->
Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — Is it intended behavior for the in-game clock to be one year ahead of the config's label?
<egg|anbo|egg>
yes, that way you get one year of history
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<discord->
Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — 👌
<seclat>
Ok great, that seems to have worked. Thanks for all your help guys--I'll poke at this and let you know how it goes.
<discord->
Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — I'm sorry; I seem to have only found the source code zip, not the one for gamedata.
<discord->
Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — Where would the one for gamedata be?
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — R E A D M E
<discord->
Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — Thank you
<discord->
leo~. — how much performance impact does principia have?
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — a lot
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — you're running n-body simulations, after all
<discord->
Marsh. — It’s highly dependent on how powerful your cpu is and what you’re asking principia to predict. The performance loss is tolerable if youre willing to work with your computer’s limitations
<discord->
leo~. — is it worth it
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — Just for interest, what does your CPU look like?
<raptop>
I'd assume that you can answer the "worth it" question in terms of how interesting you consider n-body gravity
<discord->
Butcher. — I consider it worth it.
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — Concur.
<discord->
Butcher. — I'm on a fresh save atm though and it's so smooth.
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — And as an added bonus, you also get to choose reference frames (more on that later).
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — Makes rendezvousing a breeze
<discord->
Butcher. — Probably also helps that early rockets are small.
<discord->
Marsh. — It’s worth it. You need to commit to the different interface, which takes time if you’re used to normal KSP. But it’s worth it. You’ll never go back once you get used to principia
<discord->
Butcher. — Surface fixed frames are pretty awesome for lander planning too.
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — that's why you always see them used for those Mercury/Gemini/ISS mission controls --- we see where the spacecraft is directly above the ground and thus can plan ground-station connections or landing sites.
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — Also, it's always fun when you geostationary satellite's ground track turns into a ground dot
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — ah yes, lagrange point noodles
<raptop>
error: no tadpoles detected
<discord->
Butcher. — That's EM L5
<discord->
Butcher. — Stable for about 3 years between station keeping.
<discord->
leo~. — i have amd 8320
<discord->
leo~. — im a noob my rocket just blew up during ascent idk if i should get it
<raptop>
uh
<discord->
Butcher. — That's probably not going to change with principia.
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — hmm, I'm checking the processor right now and it seems to be something that was high-end a decade ago but still more-or-less competent today
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — this has nothing to do with principia but rather has something to do with your rocket, unless some sort of gamebreaking glitch occurs with principia
<discord->
Butcher. — I'm not sure what the best processor is, ksp wants fast single core but Principia wants multi core.
<discord->
leo~. — does principia make the game more difficult to do like basic orbital launches
<raptop>
Okay, let's back, up: Do egguations like ΔV = g_0 * Isp * ln(M_i/M_f) and T² = a³ make sense to you?
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — obviously the inferior variant of Δv = v_e * ln(M_i/M_f)
<raptop>
heh
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — the other one was too... Earth-ist
<raptop>
s/Earth/Sol/
<raptop>
Fun fact, if you always use years, au, and solar masses, T² = a³/m doesn't need any conversion factors
<raptop>
I'm mildly concnered at the lion's silence though
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — discord says that he's not online
<discord->
(experimentalshells?). — so yeah, if you ever get around to reading it, give it a spin
<raptop>
oh, he's doing one of those drivebys (ish) that we get in KSPO?