egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
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<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy created branch Entwurf https://git.io/JZMED
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy created branch Entwurf - https://git.io/fpDwq
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<egg|anbo|egg_> bridge was down, should be back up
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #3031: Some cleanups in class Vessel - https://git.io/JZM6q
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4985/
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<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4985/
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4986/
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<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4986/
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<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #3031: Some cleanups in class Vessel - https://git.io/JZM6q
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<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #3031: Some cleanups in class Vessel - https://git.io/JZM6q
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy pushed 2 commits to Entwurf [+0/-0/±4] https://git.io/JZDRf
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy 4888d7e - Cleanup.
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy c5a999f - Merge pull request #3031 from pleroy/Cleanup Some cleanups in class Vessel
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<queqiao-> ⟨I​StarConquestI⟩ I was watching a stream of RP-1 which doesnt use principia, and it seems his sounding rockets without it are pretty stable, even without spin stabilization. But when I do the same thing using principia, the rockets are not stable. Is principia the likely cause of this? Are the small forces applied by the Moon and other bodies enough to make the rocket unstable in atmospheric flight?
<raptop> I'd assume something with atmospheric models
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<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ are there ever issues with compounded estimation error in principia modelling that could result in drastic changes to a planet or moon's orbit?
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<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ If you are on a version over five months old, it may be related to the bug that was fixed here:
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ I wonder if it would be possible to model noodles going trough atmosphere, like in the trajectories mod with principia
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ GMAT allows that capability too
<raptop> Assume a radially symmetric spacecraft...
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ I wonder if it would be possible to model noodles going trough atmosphere, like in the trajectories mod, with principia (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ yes that would be the hard part
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ maybe you could assume the heatshield on the craft as the aerobreaking part
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ sounds like a deep rabbit hole though
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Assume all spacecraft are spherical...
<raptop> 🐄🐄🐄
<queqiao-> ⟨s​ichelgaita⟩ The forces exerted by the Moon, etc. are surely too small, but Principia implements the rotational motion of vessels in more elaborate ways than the stock game. See the comments in https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/2519.
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #3032: Add a predicate to check if a vessel is in a state that allows collapsing its trajectory - https://git.io/JZ9P3
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4987/
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4987/
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ In my experience I really have problems with staging on sounding rockets and stability, not sure if it's principia doing it though
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ You would expect 0N decoupler to not make any difference in a spin stabilized sounding rocket
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ But then I suppose even some of the Stratos sounding rockets IRL had some 'tennisracketing' causing it to tear apart
<queqiao-> ⟨(​ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴍᴇɴᴛᴀʟshells)⟩ well yeah, you also might want to check if your vessel doesn't get Джанибеков-effect
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ Oof I can't copy paste on phone, can you send a Wikipedia page?
<queqiao-> ⟨(​ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴍᴇɴᴛᴀʟshells)⟩ bold of you to assume that I copy-pasted, but here you go https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis_racket_theorem
<queqiao-> ⟨(​ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴍᴇɴᴛᴀʟshells)⟩ https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/853385171205488650/unknown.png
<queqiao-> ⟨l​pg⟩ it's just another name for the tennis racket effect
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ Ah cool
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ Just like eggs fancy way of saying molnyia
<raptop> Abusing language for fun and profit
<raptop> Okay, just fun
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ I mean in all fairness, it's cool to use the original name
<queqiao-> ⟨l​pg⟩ but it isn't
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ Only if your target audience also knows the original name 😅
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ It's not like there's anyone here who can't read Cyrillic
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ right?
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Context provides a lot
<raptop> Just be careful if egg starts selling you copper ingots
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ ???
<raptop> More seriously, I can totally imagine egg providing an Akkadian or Sumerian language option for Principia
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Sumerian is hard
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tandecco⟩ It's most likely not due to the nature of rockets, but even if it were, stock also models it
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #3032: Add a predicate to check if a vessel is in a state that allows collapsing its trajectory - https://git.io/JZ9P3
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4988/
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Not really, see the comments to which @sichelgaita linked
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<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4988/
<raptop> Does https://arxiv.org/pdf/2106.02079.pdf mean a new body for egg to add to Principia?