egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
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<queqiao->
⟨JustMozzie⟩ how would one somewhat easily land on the moon, because right now i am really struggling
<queqiao->
⟨JustMozzie⟩ just from low lunar orbit to touchdown
<queqiao->
⟨Standecco⟩ Didn't know that, thanks
<queqiao->
⟨Standecco⟩ But our sounding rockets are multi parts
<queqiao->
⟨Standecco⟩ What would their 2nd axis of rotation be?
<queqiao->
⟨Zeusbeer⟩ Isn't there that body in the asteroid belt that is basically a planets core
<queqiao->
⟨Zeusbeer⟩ That seems like a cool body to go to
<queqiao->
⟨Zeusbeer⟩ (for RO in general)
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ Burn engines such that you don't crash.
<queqiao->
⟨JustMozzie⟩ lmao thanks
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ Landing is not that easy, so I'm not sure I can describe an easy approach, unless you have a large surplus of fuel.
<queqiao->
⟨JustMozzie⟩ well, what would be a good amount of deltaV
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ From llo I like to budget around 2k.
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ You can do it on a bit less, but landing on razor margins is a bit too exciting.
<queqiao->
⟨JustMozzie⟩ aight good to know.
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ How you approach it also depends on your twr.
<queqiao->
⟨JustMozzie⟩ i was trying to land on 1.8k so theres one problem
<queqiao->
⟨JustMozzie⟩ i think ill budget abt 2.5k with a twr of ~2 on the moon
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ That is slim. You need about 1.65k to cancel orbital velocity so you're only leaving yourself 150 for gravity and steering losses.
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ I mean is this a single burn apollo style or do you have a separate stage with most of the dv and then a small detachable lander.
<queqiao->
⟨JustMozzie⟩ and i was using the same fuel for rcs so
<queqiao->
⟨JustMozzie⟩ apollo style
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ And also can you throttle?
<queqiao->
⟨JustMozzie⟩ technichally no, but infinite restarts
<queqiao->
⟨JustMozzie⟩ its on 6 of those generic thrusters 1.1kN
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ Long burn to the surface I assume? It's mostly about managing vertical speed as you scrub off orbital velocity so you don't crash.
<queqiao->
⟨JustMozzie⟩ VERY long
<queqiao->
⟨JustMozzie⟩ whats a good orbital height for LLO
<queqiao->
⟨JustMozzie⟩ i was testing at 95km
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ My apollo landings were about 10 mins from ignition to touchdown.
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ That's fairly high, but any height can work.
<queqiao->
⟨JustMozzie⟩ also what i was using was mechjeb's landing guidance until it freaked out that there wasnt a linearly throttle-able engine
<queqiao->
⟨JustMozzie⟩ and then took manual control from there
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ Normal profile would be short deorbit burn to bring perilune down to around zero near your chosen landing site, then coast until you're closer enough to start braking.
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ Engines on full, manage pitch to control vertical speed.
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ Ideally you end up at low speed (20 m/s give or take) 50-100m above terrain and then suicide burn from there.
<queqiao->
⟨JustMozzie⟩ got it. ill test all of this out tomorrow. thanks :)
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ For your fish landings pick an easy site like one of the "seas". You don't have to worry about flying into a crater then.
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ For your first landings pick an easy site like one of the "seas". You don't have to worry about flying into a crater then. (edited)
<queqiao->
⟨JustMozzie⟩ thats what i was planning on doing :)
<queqiao->
⟨Butcher⟩ I need to build more landers like that, I get much better landing precision. Maybe a sky crane for a rover. 🤔
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<queqiao->
⟨Brommeh⟩ Is principia compatible with the RSS cape mod in 1.10? I'm getting mixed results with crashes when loading to the space center. When I am able to load a craft file it gets placed about 10km inland to the west of the cape. (Where the KSC would normally be.)
<queqiao->
⟨Brommeh⟩ Is principia compatible with the RSS cape mod in 1.10? I'm getting mixed results with crashes when loading to the space center. When I am able to load a craft file it gets placed about 10km inland to the west of the cape. (Where the KSC would normally be when not using the cape mod.) (edited)
<queqiao->
⟨Stonesmile⟩ Principia shouldn't have an effect on that
<queqiao->
⟨Brommeh⟩ Weird, it only happens when I have principia loaded though
<queqiao->
⟨Ripstone⟩ I started my save with Principa and in the beginning it was working fine. However after some progression, despite I kept the # of flights to a minimum (maybe 8-10), the saving/loading times got very long. Since it occured on any Auto- and quicksave it got a bit frustrating and I removed Principia. Saving times back to normal again. Is this normal behaviour, or did I do something wrong?
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ which version of Principia
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ (but by and large this is somewhat expected, see issue 2400; we are working on that)
<queqiao->
⟨Ripstone⟩ should be 2021051119-Green
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ Also, which year are you in
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<queqiao->
⟨Ripstone⟩ I am currently at work and progressed a lot since removing Principa, but I guess it was like 10 years in the game. After a few of the first orbital contracts.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ If you are far from 1951, things used to get slow, but this has been fixed in Gröbner.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ If you have old vessels lying around in orbit, things will get slow, and we are still working on that.
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #3032: Add a predicate to check if a vessel is in a state that allows collapsing its trajectory - https://git.io/JZ9P3
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<queqiao->
⟨Ripstone⟩ Alright thank you, since I am playing without it now on this save, so I guess there is currently no way back. But I will definitely try again on the next save.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ well, you can re-add it to an existing save, unless you have interplanetary flights going on things should remain reasonable
<queqiao->
⟨Ripstone⟩ Oh ok, so I can try and report back in the next days. Is there a recommended # of flights, on which performance should stay reasonable? Also I am in the 70ies now.
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ it’s not so much about the number of flights
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ it is about their age
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ a single vessel lying around in LEO since 1950 will take up a lot of space in your save (and make things slow)
<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ (it really is orbital craft that are a problem too ; interplanetary trajectories should compress much better and thus be much less of a problem)
<queqiao->
⟨Ripstone⟩ understood, thank you!
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #3032: Add a predicate to check if a vessel is in a state that allows collapsing its trajectory - https://git.io/JZ9P3
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #3032: Add a predicate to check if a vessel is in a state that allows collapsing its trajectory - https://git.io/JZ9P3
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] pleroy closed pull request #3032: Add a predicate to check if a vessel is in a state that allows collapsing its trajectory - https://git.io/JZ9P3
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[Principia] pleroy pushed 6 commits to Entwurf [+0/-0/±17] https://git.io/JZAOc
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] ... and 3 more commits.
<queqiao->
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Does the hack-gravity backdoor still totally fix the history issue?
<queqiao->
⟨DRVeyl⟩ If by "totally fix" you mean "destroy the history of that vessel" then I believe yes.
<queqiao->
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ I mean reset the bloat it has in the save file
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] alankfsn forked the repository - https://git.io/JZAVj
<queqiao->
⟨Stonesmile⟩ That data *is* the history, so yes
<queqiao->
⟨Ripstone⟩ just toggling hack gravity from debug console or how does it work?
<queqiao->
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Once per craft
<queqiao->
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ you must be in each craft's flight scene
<queqiao->
⟨Stonesmile⟩ Toggling 'hack gravity' makes Principia ignore it, @egg would likely be the best person to say if that deletes the history data from the save file
<queqiao->
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ I don't like pinging people, I don't want to interrupt anything
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<queqiao->
⟨egg⟩ yeah it does
<queqiao->
⟨Zeusbeer⟩ so toggling hack gravity returns scene loading times?
<queqiao->
⟨Zeusbeer⟩ so toggling hack gravity returns normal scene loading times? (edited)
<queqiao->
⟨Stonesmile⟩ It is the same as deleting that specific vessel
<queqiao->
⟨Stonesmile⟩ You should toggle hack gravity back off to make principia take control of the vessel again
<queqiao->
⟨Zeusbeer⟩ cool
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] eggrobin synchronize pull request #2973: Documentation for a correctly-rounded cube root - https://git.io/J3BRj