egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
egg|anbo|egg_ has joined #principia
egg|anbo|egg__ has joined #principia
egg|anbo|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 204 seconds]
egg|anbo|egg_ has quit [Ping timeout: 189 seconds]
egg|cell|egg has joined #principia
Mike` has quit [Ping timeout: 189 seconds]
<discord-_> T​heRealDirtyDan. — How do i remove the level orbit lines, they don't show up in the tracking center.
Mike` has joined #principia
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — @TheRealDirtyDan This is due to reference frames; you are looking at a surface centered reference frame
egg|anbo|egg has joined #principia
egg|anbo|egg has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — Ah yes
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — I just set a target_longitude now and it makes a satellite go there
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — It's a bit messy but it works
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — and most importantly: it's exactly the way I'd do it in KSP
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — and most importantly: it's exactly the way I'd do it in KSP 😂 (edited)
egg|anbo|egg has joined #principia
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — Ok now it's less messy
egg|anbo|egg has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — Now this is insane
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — I figured a way to make it solve to end up at the target location at perigee
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — this means it doesn't have to do any drifting
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — this means it doesn't have to do any drifting, and it's really exact (edited)
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — It is a bit wasteful to do an exterior phasing, no?
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — Yes, but this is more interesting than the other solution
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — I guess staying in LEO for some orbits might help to minimize the distance beyond GEO you need to go
<discord-_> l​eudaimon. — this higher orbit is because you are launching from a high latitude location that makes it cheaper to reduce the inclination from high up, right?
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — Yes but I'm not optimizing for minimal deltaV cost
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — because I don't know how to optimize
<discord-_> l​eudaimon. — oh, right
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — so it's just a bit arbitrary
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — but its so cool that it finds a solution where it ends up at the perfect set longitude
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — But it seems quite efficient
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — total delta V is about 4.5km/s, so thats not bad at all, especially from a 45 degree orbit
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — How does it compare to an 'optimal' geo plan?
egg|anbo|egg has joined #principia
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — I have no idea how much that would cost
<discord-_> l​eudaimon. — should be easy to calculate the cost with a simple hohmann transfer + inclination change at apogee. The supersynchronous orbit with plane change at the higher apogee is harder to calculate, but I'm sure there is some fixed solution
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — You would have to find what the ideal apoapsis is for the inclination change efficiency while also optimizing the amount of deltaV for the circularization burn at the end
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — for getting into GEO from polar orbit it finds a solution that takes about 5.5 km/s of deltaV
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — but how do you find the total deltaV if you have a maneuver that has both say tangent and normal
<discord-_> e​gg. — In Principia ? or are we talking about GMAT
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — The solution it finds is insane
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — it also took like 413 seconds to calculate
<discord-_> e​gg. — that looks like a classic outer transfer?
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — I guess
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — but is that usual for GEO?
<discord-_> l​eudaimon. — is it getting all the way to the Lagrange point distance?
<discord-_> e​gg. — not really
<discord-_> e​gg. — it’s more of a lunar trasfer thing
<discord-_> e​gg. — it’s more of a lunar transfer thing (edited)
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — yeah it's getting to the low stability boundary
<discord-_> D​amien. — does that maneuver require a 2nd burn at Ap?
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — yes but I programmed it wrong I think
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — because it coasts to periapsis for the second maneuver
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — No I did program it right
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — It's not the most efficient I just realised, it does the second burn at Z=0, so at the equator
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — to make sure the inclination becomes 0
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — So it doesn't use the really far away point to change inclination, becaust it can't
<discord-_> e​gg. — well most of the inclination change is still done by that big hairpin
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — that is correct
<discord-_> l​eudaimon. — Why it can't change inclination there? Looks like it is at the equator at apogee, no?
<discord-_> D​amien. — yeah that's what I was wondering, so it's exactly like the low energy outer transfer to the moon, only instead of performing a 2nd, capture burn at the moon you do it at earth
<discord-_> D​amien. — that's cool
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — It's really cool, I don't know if it's optimal though
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — because I think you can also use a lunar flyby to change inclination really efficiently
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — Hmm it's non-trivial
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — this is if I change the target-longitude to 75 it finds a simpler solution
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — Still the total amount of DeltaV is simular
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — Still the total amount of DeltaV is simular, which I find interesting (edited)
<discord-_> l​eudaimon. — so it's doing that only to synchronize when you are getting to the intended longitude in one go?
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — thats what I was thinking too
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — I wonder what solutions it comes up with if you use optimizers
<discord-_> l​eudaimon. — can't you allow for multiple orbits between burns?
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — you'd need an optimizer
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — because it would have to find an efficient amount of orbits
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — with constraints for say, time
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — with constraints for say, time, optimizing for deltaV (edited)
egg|anbo|egg has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
egg|anbo|egg has joined #principia
egg|anbo|egg_ has joined #principia
egg|anbo|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 204 seconds]
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — guys no way
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — I found a way to get VF13ad
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — http://www.thinksysinc.com/downloads.html
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — it works!
<discord-_> l​eudaimon. — you'll need to learn it all and make a tutorial series now 😛
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — just running one example
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — yes, I really want to know how to use it now
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — The mission itself seems quite simple
<discord-_> C​risti. — Nice, closer to the Mars transfer
egg|anbo|egg_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<discord-_> l​eudaimon. — is the upper right graph the optimization result?
<discord-_> A​l2Me6. — I think that's distance form Earth over time?
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — yeah
<discord-_> C​risti. — If you start from a circular Leo orbit, let's say 160 km, and try to do a fly-by of the moon with optimal delta-V what solution it finds?
<discord-_> D​amien. — rename #principia to #astrodynamics
<discord-_> D​amien. — we've gone beyond gaming
<discord-_> l​eudaimon. — when was Principia gaming 🤓
<discord-_> v​evladdd. — Principia is a separate game
<discord-_> C​risti. — After spending countless hours to plan multi flybys mission I cannot agree more with leudaimon
<discord-_> A​l2Me6. — I think that's distance from Earth over time? (edited)
Mike` has quit [Ping timeout: 189 seconds]
Mike` has joined #principia
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — yeah not yet
egg|cell|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 198 seconds]
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — Here I wrote a script that finds the minimal amount of deltaV to get from polar orbit into GEO
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — I just don't get how it's not converging, I set the tolerance to 0.01 and the differences are well in that
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — I just don't get how it's not converging, I set the tolerance to 0.01 and the differences are well inside that (edited)
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — but for anyone wondering, the deltaV cost is about 4.573 km/s
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — with the initial ejection burn being 3.02 km/s tangent
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] pleroy reviewed pull request #2981 commit - https://git.io/JsqbQ
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] pleroy reviewed pull request #2981 commit - https://git.io/Jsqb7
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] pleroy reviewed pull request #2981 commit - https://git.io/Jsqb5
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] pleroy reviewed pull request #2981 commit - https://git.io/Jsqbd
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] pleroy reviewed pull request #2981 commit - https://git.io/Jsqbb
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — hmm it might be inaccurute, since its using a lunar flyby somehow
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — hmm it might be inaccurute, since its using a lunar flyby somehow 😂 (edited)
egg|cell|egg has joined #principia
<discord-_> l​eudaimon. — It could be the cheapest way to reduce the inclination
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2983: If a vessel only contains unfaithful parts, make it unmanageable - https://git.io/JsItj
egg|cell|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 189 seconds]
<discord-_> l​pg. — lunar flyby sounds kind of high, but going supersynchronous for the plane change is definitely optimal, and polar is a pretty extreme case
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] pleroy closed issue #2922: [Info] FARc 0_16_0_1_Mader can lead to a Principia Fatal error in KSP 1.11.1 - https://git.io/Jq7Hv
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2983: If a vessel only contains unfaithful parts, make it unmanageable - https://git.io/JsItj
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] pleroy pushed 5 commits to master [+0/-0/±10] https://git.io/JsmIS
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] pleroy aad94fc - Replaying. # Conflicts: # journal/player_test.cpp
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] pleroy c786899 - More verbose logging.
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] pleroy 25b8d16 - A vessel which only has unfaithful parts is not manageable. # Conflicts: # journal/player.cpp
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] ... and 2 more commits.
<discord-_> e​gg. — Currently warping to the 60s to test the fix of 2400 (first part), and doing so in my remote sensing save
<discord-_> e​gg. — But obviously the remote sensing mod being based on Kerbalism, my earth observation satellites are sad
<discord-_> D​amien. — the pause button is your friend if notifications are cancelling warp
<discord-_> e​gg. — how does that work?
<discord-_> e​gg. — I would like to not cancel warp, yes :-p
<discord-_> D​amien. — that's the hotkey to turn off notifications
<discord-_> e​gg. — oh
<discord-_> e​gg. — Messages muted, nice
<discord-_> e​gg. — Warping a decade with vessels does take a while with Principia (though I suppose if you are actually playing a career you don’t warp that much very often)
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Damien I did add a « pause the remote sensing analysis » setting though, because otherwise the computation of the swaths does get silly as you have noticed :-p
<discord-_> D​amien. — yeah I can't believe I endured that warp to L1 with it running
<discord-_> D​amien. — it was painful
<discord-_> e​gg. — also hey, may GEO sat nudged itself to a stable point
<discord-_> e​gg. — warping for a long time is entertaining
<discord-_> D​amien. — turn on procedural asteroids and watch them spawn and be flung about by earth
<discord-_> D​amien. — it's fun
<discord-_> e​gg. — hm, no, it’s not a stable point, it is at 3°
<discord-_> e​gg. — but it does not seem to be moving that much
<discord-_> e​gg. — it’s going to stay within 3° of there for 100 days, and then within 200 days it moves 15°, within 300 days 40°, 400 days 80°, and at that point it is just having a stroll around the equator
egg|cell|egg has joined #principia
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — 3 degrees is close to the -15 degree tip, that would explain why it's moving very little
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — at 30 degrees the movement will be maximal
<discord-_> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — So, timewarp almost found a geostationary orbit which had an unstable longitude but soon reached a stable longitude and maintained geostationary status?
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — https://nyxspace.com/
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — I found this
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — Might be a future GMAT alternative
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — Lol
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — what to do
<raptop> apocalypse due to Nyx being in the inner solar system?
raptop is now known as deadraptop
<discord-_> A​l2Me6. — I don't think they realized that a starry background also looks like a dirty screen...
<discord-_> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — Is that why Israel's lander failed?
<deadraptop> tardigrade sabotage
<discord-_> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — Now I wish that discord had a :tardigrade: emoji by default
<deadraptop> 🌊+ZWJ+🐻
<discord-_> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — We have 🐃 , but not :waterbear:
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] rnlahaye synchronize pull request #2981: Optimizations for DiscreteTrajectory - https://git.io/J3xZQ
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] rnlahaye reviewed pull request #2981 commit - https://git.io/JsmDz
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] pleroy reviewed pull request #2981 commit - https://git.io/JsmHb
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4912/
<discord-_> e​gg. — oops I forgot about the game and accidentally warped to 2001
<discord-_> P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they). — A Space Odyssey
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4912/
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — That seems like an even better test case 😆
egg|cell|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 198 seconds]
<discord-_> e​gg. — except I am an idiot, the second part of 2400 is not addressed so with the vessels from 1950 still there it is unusable and takes ages to switch scenes  🙃
<discord-_> e​gg. — I should have used a vesselless save
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — Doesn't deleting them / toggling hack gravity help?
<discord-_> e​gg. — well yes but I am not going to wait for it to load
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — *Oh* it's that bad? 😮
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — .sfs editing might work
<discord-_> e​gg. — no it will not, because the Principia save is stored in a compressed form which is not editable
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — wait, deleting a vessel in the .sfs breaks stuff?
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — Just out of curiosity, how large did the save get?
<discord-_> e​gg. — the SFS takes ages to *load*
<discord-_> e​gg. — the history is in the Principia fields, not in the KSP nodes
<discord-_> l​pg. — out of curiosity, what happens if you delete _all_ the principia data?
<discord-_> e​gg. — probably the same as when removing then re-adding principia
<discord-_> e​gg. — will maybe randomize your vessels but otherwise fine
<discord-_> e​gg. — OK now that I warped vesselless to 1960, Herbert West is doing his job
Mike` has quit [Ping timeout: 189 seconds]
Mike` has joined #principia
egg|cell|egg has joined #principia
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] pleroy commented on pull request #2981: Optimizations for DiscreteTrajectory - https://git.io/JsYmG
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] eggrobin synchronize pull request #2973: Documentation for a correctly-rounded cube root - https://git.io/J3BRj
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4913/
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] eggrobin synchronize pull request #2973: Documentation for a correctly-rounded cube root - https://git.io/J3BRj
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4913/
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4914/
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] eggrobin opened issue #2984: The duration parsers should allow for missing units - https://git.io/JsY3M
<_whitenotifier-edb> [Principia] eggrobin labeled issue #2984: The duration parsers should allow for missing units - https://git.io/JsY3M