egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
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<queqiao-_>
⟨GamerK 2⟩ uhh... hello guys
<queqiao-_>
⟨GamerK 2⟩ i have some problem
<queqiao-_>
⟨GamerK 2⟩ i installed principia with rss/ro/rp-1
<queqiao-_>
⟨GamerK 2⟩ but it crashed when ksp after loading
<queqiao-_>
⟨Stonesmile⟩ Have you tried to boot up again?
<queqiao-_>
⟨GamerK 2⟩ yeah
<queqiao-_>
⟨GamerK 2⟩ i reinstalled ksp twice
<queqiao-_>
⟨GamerK 2⟩ (my ksp version is 1.12.2)
<queqiao-_>
⟨Stonesmile⟩ Are there any FATAL logs in the glog folder?
<queqiao-_>
⟨Stonesmile⟩ the glog folder is `<KSP directory>\glog`
<queqiao-_>
⟨GamerK 2⟩ uhhh....
<queqiao-_>
⟨GamerK 2⟩ i installed ksp wrong version of ksp
<queqiao-_>
⟨GamerK 2⟩ :/
<queqiao-_>
⟨GamerK 2⟩ i installed wrong version of ksp (edited)
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ Mystery solved
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ sorry to bother but can someone please remind of how exactly you go to the mo
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ sorry to bother anyone but im gonna need a reminder, how exactly does one get to impact the moon,i can do the aligning my launch with the lunar plane by using the principia reference plane which there is a window 2 times a day or so ,but i still dont get to it with a reasonable amount of deltaV im quite sure there is a specific time of the month you have to be launching,so how can i figure out what t
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ sorry to bother anyone but im gonna need a reminder, how exactly does one get to impact the moon,i can do the aligning my launch with the lunar plane by using the principia reference plane which there is a window 2 times a day or so ,but i still dont get to it with a reasonable amount of deltaV im quite sure there is a specific time of the month you have to be launching,so how can i figure out what t
<queqiao-_>
⟨Soviet Onion⟩ if dV is a constraint and timing is not, try a ballistic approach?
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ well no i would like to do it how you normally would if i understand you correctly
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ @Tori if you're launching from Cape Canaveral then it's not easy because the moon's orbit only touches the latitude of the cape once every 18 years
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ due to precession
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ without principia, the moon's orbit is fixes at that perfect inclination
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ without principia, the moon's orbit is fixed at that perfect inclination (edited)
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ so you either need to do an off plane transfer or launch from a lower latitude launchsite
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ i mean ,you know how if you want to get to the moon you want to not go above or below it,thats what i mean,like to cross the lunar orbit,not to wait until there is a 1.5 degree minimum offset
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ like to only burn prograde not in a weird direction
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ sometimes i can get an impact with 3200 Dv and sometimes i need 3700,usually the 3200Dv one is only burning prograde,and im launching in the same year
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ so time of month matters
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ @Butcher has a kOS script that helps with this
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ have a look in #script-automation
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ isnt there a way to just eyeball it or do i have to get kOS again
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ eyeballing an off plane transfer sounds painful so I'd avoid that
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ alright
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ With my script I get two easterly launches per day (or as many as a like if I'm willing to go for higher inclination). Intercept dV is usually 3130-3150 m/s.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ From a 200x200 orbit.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ huh
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ how
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ :magic:
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ Which is to say, mathematics. :-p
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ i mean i do align my launch plane as close as possible using MEO reference plane exactly 2 times a day or so
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ so then why
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ In a nutshell, you launch such that your flight path aims at the Moon (or rather, where the Moon will be in 4 days).
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ My plane is usually not aligned at all. Hence "off plane transfer".
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ like it crosses out where the moon will be in 4 days right
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ You don't need to be in the same plane to reach the Moon, just in the same place at the same time.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ Right.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ It's very hard to judge from the pad by eye.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ yea i just tried
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ ur right
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ I tried over the space of a month or so to eyeball a single burn direct ascent off plane intercept from baikonur
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ alright before i install kOS can you link me Wikipedia page (if there is one )of how the math is done i just want to see
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ needless to say I rage quit ksp for a significant length of time
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ Direct ascent is a chore. :-p
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ Korolev used hacks irl
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ i wonder then does everyone use the math or do ppl just launch whenever and hope,or maybe they try to eyeball it
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ I don't have a wiki page for it, I just derived it up from first principles.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ yea its just that it sounds quite interesting
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ TBH I got out of direct ascent because waiting 3 weeks for a window sucks.
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ There's always Kourou
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ to be honest waiting 3 weeks isnt bad how is it ever done?
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ And a separate TLI stage tends to work out better anyway.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ kourou is cheating
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ 3 weeks is inferior to waiting a few hours though.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ Especially since you have to sit in the flight scene to do it due to kOS limitations.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ ik but i just want to know how it is done sorry to bother you but
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ some reading up on the Luna missions would probably be helpful because off plane ascents were the USSRs forte
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ some reading up on the Luna missions would probably be helpful because off plane ascents/intercepts were the USSRs forte (edited)
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ they couldn't launch into plane because of the high latitude of Baikonur
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ yea i mean the N1 launched (well halfway it launched before exploding,multiple times) on an almost polar orbit
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ yes ,im guessing wikipedia wont be enough tho....
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ The basics of it are: You have three points; the pad, the earth, the moon in four days.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ You use those three points to form a plane.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ That is your parking orbit / TLI plane.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ You calculate the inclination of that plane and launch.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ since i dont want to bother you anymore can you give a link if you have on how to do that
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ I don't have one off hand - wikipedia on orbital elements might help.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ It's essentially the angle between the normal of the plane and the Earth's angular momentum vector.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Tori⟩ to my experience all the wiki pages i have read have taught me nothing on how the math works with launches,tho i think thats just me not knowing how to search stuff in wikipedia
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ From my script: `reqInc is arccos(vdot(orbitNorm, Ship:Body:AngularVel:Normalized)).` It really is that simple.