egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​ost Thou Even Shred⟩ So uhm i still dont fully understand. First if florida is too far north how did Apollo seem to have no issue. Second is there a non KOS way to do it or maybe some self calculations I can do just so it feels more "immersive" or something
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ Apollo did the hard thing—indeed I believe a speech was made that stressed that.
<raptop> Yes, though you'll need to refresh youself on off-plane intercepts
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​ost Thou Even Shred⟩ well yeah i know it was hard ive listened to the speech but how did they do it in one burn being off plane
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Time for me to post that infographic I made lol
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ The Florida Man chart
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​ost Thou Even Shred⟩ so you launch at the rockets ascending node am i reading that right?
<raptop> TLI at either node if I understand correctly
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Yep, and also note that it’s the node three days (or however long your TLI takes) in the future
* raptop is reminded of being lazy with Minmus transfers
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​ost Thou Even Shred⟩ is that the yep to either node or just ascending
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Either.
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​ost Thou Even Shred⟩ ok
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​ost Thou Even Shred⟩ and it relative to the rocket
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​ost Thou Even Shred⟩ does the moon need to be anywhere specifically
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ The moon can be anywhere, it’s when you launch relative to it that matters
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​ost Thou Even Shred⟩ well in that case when is the launch times
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​ost Thou Even Shred⟩ or does it matter when you launch
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ It does, that's the entire point. How you _find_ the launch time, though, is an entirely matter... best left to a script.
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ It does, that's the entire point. How you _find_ the launch time, though, is an entirely matter... it's best left to a script, if you asked me. (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​ost Thou Even Shred⟩ so what is a good script that could be used cause i have no idea how to use KOS
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Both Butcher and itsRyan have scripts... I'm partial to Ryan's one.
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Butcher's one uses a different strategy that figures how to launch to the moon _right now_, instead of waiting for the transfer window
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ If you are lazy and have an upperstage engine with multiple ignitions, you can be lazy and launch due east into a circular orbit and mess with the timing of the maneuver until you get an encounter without an inclination change
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​ost Thou Even Shred⟩ Just looking at the script how in the world did they discover these things
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​ost Thou Even Shred⟩ ^ yeah i know brains.... that are probably throbbing from how much thought it takes
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Well, Ryan's script just does what my picture describes... what LAN do I need such that I hit the moon if I transfer at the AN/DN?
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Butcher's script goes a different way and says, "what inclination orbit do I need such that I _get_ the right LAN, if I launched right now"?
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ What's the longest you have to wait for it to be ready?
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Ryan's script? A day, since it only does one of AN or DN
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Otherwise half a day
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Otherwise, theoretically speaking, half a day (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Where'd I get the idea that it took up to three days from?
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​ost Thou Even Shred⟩ A lot of it just flys over my head what are even the calculations
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ transfer time I guess
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​ost Thou Even Shred⟩ yeah thats transfer but its actually closer to 4-5 for Homman Transfer
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Oh yeah, it does take 3 days to _get_ to the Moon
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​ost Thou Even Shred⟩ oh is it 3
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Sorry, misunderstood the question.
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ no, I remembered the time to get there as the time to warp to a good lan
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ no, I misremembered the time to get there as the time to warp to a good lan (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​ost Thou Even Shred⟩ Do you have any idea of what values its using to calculate it
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​ost Thou Even Shred⟩ Mainly cause im curious
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ I assume it uses Newton's method or something similar to find the correct LAN to get lunar L\_s and craft L_s to be equal
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ You can look at the code and see what exactly it is
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​ost Thou Even Shred⟩ what is L_s
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​ost Thou Even Shred⟩ yeah good luck understanding that
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​ost Thou Even Shred⟩ im awful at reading code
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Oh, it wouldn't be subscript s for the moon I don't think
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Lingitude
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Longitude (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Oh, it wouldn't be subscript s for stuff orbitting the earth I don't think (edited)
<raptop> L_\oplus
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Thank you, raptop
<raptop> (This is what happens when you spend too much time around LaTeX)
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ I always thought it gave a rash... wrong kind
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ I always thought it gave a rash... wrong kind /s (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨Q​uadrupole⟩ I personally use `\usepackage[mathb]{mathabx}` for all the planet symbols.
* raptop wonders if AAS includes that
<raptop> Also, does it have *all* the planet symbols?
<raptop> egg can show you such sights...
<queqiao-_> ⟨O​asis⟩ I smell
<queqiao-_> ⟨O​asis⟩ CAP
<queqiao-_> ⟨Q​uadrupole⟩ That package has all eight planet symbols plus Pluto and the moon. No Ceres and Vesta though
<queqiao-_> ⟨Q​uadrupole⟩ And the sun of course
<raptop> Does it also have the alternate uranus, neptune, etc?
<raptop> ⛢ vs ♅, ♆ vs ⯉, wtc
<queqiao-_> ⟨Q​uadrupole⟩ I don't think so.
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<queqiao-_> ⟨i​tsRyan⟩ OK, you've shamed me into updating the script to pick the closer of AN/DN 😄
<raptop> >_>;;
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Al2Me6 totally should be considered a contributor, if only out of shame
<queqiao-_> ⟨i​tsRyan⟩ Invite sent 😄
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ 👀
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Now I'm obligated to actually start using KOS 😅
<raptop> congratuldolences
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<queqiao-_> ⟨B​utcher⟩ The results converge around the nodes. I actually run mine with a gui which updates every minute (of game time) and launch when azimuth is close to 90 to avoid issues with fuelling for high inclinations. So it ends up being like itsRyan's script with a little slack.
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<queqiao-_> ⟨K​obymaru⟩ So I'm trying to click my launch site in the map view to "Activate Navigation". The window briefly pops up, but disappears immediately and the Earth is suddenly centered in the map view.
<queqiao-_> ⟨K​obymaru⟩ Does principia have anything to do with this? Where did the "select target celestial" go?
<queqiao-_> ⟨K​razyKerbal⟩ I have a question about executing Principia manoeuvres: I'm trying to do a lunar impact, and can launch into an appropriate orbit and set up a collision course easily, but when I use MechJeb's "Execute next Principia manoeuvre" it always burns short, even though I have plenty of Δv (3700 from LEO when the collision course takes about 3150). Through trial and error I got a Pe of 500m by addin
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ MJ doesn't take the engine startup time into concideration, that is likely the largest error source
<queqiao-_> ⟨K​razyKerbal⟩ I figured that was the case, is there any way to account for or compensate for that?
<queqiao-_> ⟨K​razyKerbal⟩ The 1.5s difference seems like a lot to make up with an RCS burn
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<queqiao-_> ⟨K​razyKerbal⟩ Should I not use MJ, just Principia's "show on navball" and stop burning a second early and use RCS, considering how difficult (practically impossible) it is to stop at exactly 0?
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​pg⟩ the manual way is to _start_ burning a bit early
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​pg⟩ the semi-manual way is to plot the maneuver, then manually make it start earlier and last longer, then ignore the now-wrong planned trajectory and use MJ's "execute maneuver". awkward either way
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<queqiao-_> ⟨l​pg⟩ the fine folk over in #script-automation presumably have real automatic ways to cope with it
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<queqiao-_> ⟨K​razyKerbal⟩ Ohhhh, I'm dumb. I tried the semi-manual way, but forgot to adjust the start time, I only changed the burn time. Will try both, thanks.
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<queqiao-_> ⟨l​pg⟩ it used to be that "all" engines had about the same spool-up times. Now every engine's different, which makes things more fiddly
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​pg⟩ option D is to go in the configs and zero out the spool-up time, which really doesn't change much aside from this
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<raptop> Things you can't do in Principia: https://arxiv.org/abs/2110.04631
<queqiao-_> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Yes, yes we do.
<raptop> ...unless you can have the craft pull on the asteroid...
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ Raptop; Butcher replied to a message by lpg; 😅
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ > the fine folk over in script-automation presumably have real automatic ways to cope with it
<raptop> ah
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ The potatoroids in KSP are considered vessels, so you might be able to change their trajectory in principia, but it would still be next to impossible due to mass
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​oviet Onion⟩ are there any tutorials or tips somewhere on reaching NRHO around Moon?
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​oviet Onion⟩ nice
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<queqiao-_> ⟨e​xpanders are superior⟩ This is separate from gateway right?
<queqiao-_> ⟨Q​uadrupole⟩ What do you mean? This article compares the various possible orbit for the gateway and concluded (given the Orion) NRHO is the best
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