UmbralRaptor changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> … one of the other grad students just compared me to nomal O_o | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer.
<UmbralRaptor>
meow
<UmbralRaptor>
"Bridenstine's views on the subject appear to have evolved, in that he no longer rejects the notion humans are warming the planet."
<UmbralRaptor>
Yay
APlayer has quit [Ping timeout: 204 seconds]
<rqou>
egg: because a) I'm an ABC and b) my family is in the "PRC" chinese community, i don't care too much about broken variant glyphs
<Qboid>
rqou: egg|zzz|egg left a message for you in #kspacademia [01.11.2017 08:39:27]: "do you have any nice examples of things that get really broken by rendering unified CJK ideographs as the wrong variant? the only things I can easily find are tables of characters that vary, but it's hard to tell how important the variation is, and how frequent an occurence that is"
<Iskierka>
egg: apparently would work with NN perturbation stuff posted yesterday?
<rqou>
in my limited experience, the "PRC-affiliated" people seem the least bothered by stupid glyph issues
<rqou>
e.g. "computers are dumb, that's just how the computer shows it" rather than "ZOMG YOU ARE KILLING OUR DISTINCTIVE CULTURE"
icefire has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
awang has joined #kspacademia
APlayer has joined #kspacademia
<soundnfury>
!wpn rqou
* Qboid
gives rqou a blizzard
* rqou
used blizzard. it's super effective!
<soundnfury>
It explodes in gore!
<xShadowx>
has anyone ever made a solenoid thats more in the design of a stepper motor?
<xShadowx>
so teeth along the shaft and the casing around it to focus the magnetic field into steps, but moving straight instead of inducing torque o.o
<xShadowx>
this stepping i have has evil holding torque, so i think the power is there to make it work - more wanting a silent actuator ;p
<kmath>
<Alex_Parker> Product concept: ESD wrist straps for cats.
<Iskierka>
sounds like a product for micah?
e_14159 has joined #kspacademia
<UmbralRaptor>
Good point.
APlayer has joined #kspacademia
<egg|phone|egg>
!Wpn whitequark
* Qboid
gives whitequark an abelian preta
<egg>
!tell rqou ABC? also, I guess the default glyphs being the zh-Hans-CN ones in pan-CJK fonts also helps with that :-p
<Qboid>
egg: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<rqou>
egg: ABC = American-Born Chinese
<Qboid>
rqou: egg left a message for you in #kspacademia [02.11.2017 07:56:45]: "ABC? also, I guess the default glyphs being the zh-Hans-CN ones in pan-CJK fonts also helps with that :-p"
<kmath>
<stephentyrone> @kongtomorrow @ZachWeiner "So we convolve with this test function, and evaluate on this interval..." "Why did you p… https://t.co/seErRugmRl
egg|phone|egg has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
egg|phone|egg has joined #kspacademia
egg|cell|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
egg|cell|egg has joined #kspacademia
egg|phone|egg has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<BPlayer>
Crap, those equations are getting scary
<BPlayer>
egg: Uh, so I took a(t) = F / (m_0 - t * v_e) and integrated that twice. Does that make sense?
<BPlayer>
Do I get any meaningful measure of distance this way, that is?
<UmbralRaptor>
I think so. With the obvious caveats of tine interval, and pretending that the ferram4 and egg sectors don't exist/cancel out.
<BPlayer>
Caveats of time interval? ferram4 and egg sectors?
<BPlayer>
I guess by the latter you mean ignoring aero forces and gravity?
<UmbralRaptor>
Yeah
<UmbralRaptor>
For the former, don't go out to times where the mass is 0.
<BPlayer>
Ah, yeah, sure
<BPlayer>
Well, I am still getting nonsensical outputs
<BPlayer>
Meanwhile I changed a(t) to F / (m_0 - t * v_e) - 9.81 to account for gravity and keep the aero forces as a safety margin. I plug that in to WolframAlpha and get... Uh, let me find it
<BPlayer>
a(t) = -(F * log(m - t * v)) / v - 9.81 * t + c, where c is the integration constant. I choose it so that a(0) = 0.
<BPlayer>
S/a(/v(/
<BPlayer>
Well, let me just re-send that, it is messed up in a few places. v(t) = -(F * log(m_0 - t * v_e)) / v_e - 9.81 * t + c, where c is the integration constant. I choose it so that v(0) = 0.
<APlayer>
(I have only learned the differentiation rules so far, and thus cannot integrate by hand as of yet. I'll certainly try to learn it myself, though)
<UmbralRaptor>
Ah, right.
<UmbralRaptor>
One can get velocity analytically with these equations, but I suspect that distance is easier numerically.
<APlayer>
SnoopJeDi: It does, but I see no logical breakdown of this
<APlayer>
It is just an equation, may as well divide it in three parts where three different terms of it are summed
<APlayer>
May as well not divide it at all
<APlayer>
By the way, all the vars are different terms themselves already, so it /is/ broken down.
<SnoopJeDi>
I have no idea how kOS works but in a typical programming language I'd just make that a function with a sensible name like minimumBurnHeight()
<APlayer>
I only need it in one place
<SnoopJeDi>
you do you
<Iskierka>
single-use functions are still good
<Iskierka>
particularly now function overhead is not significant (praticularly when it's a big function) so the clean code is preferable
<APlayer>
I could make it a function, but it would just be the same pile of crap calculations, just in another place in the program
<SnoopJeDi>
well, that's kind of the whole point of functions
<SnoopJeDi>
"I don't care how you do this just that you do it"
<APlayer>
I like to use them when they simplify things
<SnoopJeDi>
and if I wrote that in, say, Python, I'd use much shorter names in the calculation, since the innards aren't exposed and it's okay to be terse as long as the args are documented
<Iskierka>
function breaks it down to "this is the only stuff involved in calculating this bit, no need to look at other variables around at the time it's called, and when it's done it's done"
<SnoopJeDi>
but that's all neither here nor there, just a curiosity
<SnoopJeDi>
AIUI kOS kinda requires you to write garbage from time to time
<Iskierka>
kOS IS garbage
* APlayer
wonders why there is someone ranting about every single language he know
<APlayer>
s
<Iskierka>
would be more interesting to have assembly programming for a RISC processor. Instead kOS is like a (bad) scripting language that pretends to be funky RISC
<SnoopJeDi>
Computers Are Hard™
<SnoopJeDi>
and then you involve programmers in things and they are the *worst*
<APlayer>
Anyway, if it would simplify things, I'd certainly use a function, but in this case, I'd just move this ridiculous line somewhere else and I don't see how it makes anything more readable
<Iskierka>
you can make it multiple lines without makinga mess in the main code
<Iskierka>
and main code just says "this happens now, whoopdedoo who cares how"
<APlayer>
How could I make it multiple lines?
<Iskierka>
I've not seen the line but you can always break things down to simpler
<APlayer>
Uh, have a look at it :P
<SnoopJeDi>
APlayer, my original knee-jerk was because you're doing `LOCK Something to SomethingElse` but it's not immediately clear what SomethingElse is or where it comes from at a glance
<kmath>
<uncooldana> "Machine learning" feels more like "machine that-one-event-from-Takeshi's-Castle-where-people-smash-into-doors-trying-to-find-the-paper-one"
<SnoopJeDi>
versus `LOCK burnAltitude to lastChanceToBurn()` or something
<APlayer>
SnoopJeDi: Ah well, yes, I have a bit of a commenting problem
<APlayer>
Working on that
<SnoopJeDi>
it's a very minor quibble, but the "campsite" habit is something I'm trying to train when reading code
<APlayer>
Well, that could make things slightly more readable
<Iskierka>
commenting can only do so much on a line like that but it's easy to break the line down so long as you can explain what each bit is doing
<egg|work|egg>
!wpn Fiora
* Qboid
gives Fiora a cathode protractor
* egg|work|egg
glares at the ESC
<APlayer>
I'd usually create a separate library script with functions to calculate this and other stuff
<SnoopJeDi>
I'm still figuring out where I live in comment-space, but I really like Python docstrings
<APlayer>
Iskierka: It is just an ugly double integral
<APlayer>
What is there to explain
<Iskierka>
in particular I note one structure is used twice so you'd MASSIVELY cut down the code by taking that out as another variable
<SnoopJeDi>
I can make something sorta-messy in a method and leave a note, so that I don't have to keep the mess in my head when I use that function later
<APlayer>
I thought of doing that, but this structure has no particular meaning
<APlayer>
Nope, the output definitely makes no sense
<UmbralRaptor>
Why does Goldstein use [?, ?] instead of {?, ?} for Poisson brackets?
<UmbralRaptor>
!wpn egg
* Qboid
gives egg an organometallic number
<bofh>
UmbralRaptor: I have NO IDEA and it confuses the fuck out of me b/c I expect that to mean commutators.
<UmbralRaptor>
AAAA!
<bofh>
UmbralRaptor: maybe he's just using notation for arbitrary Lie brackets on a manifold b/c, I'unno, #YOLO?
<UmbralRaptor>
Hah AAAAAAAAAAAA
<Iskierka>
https://pastebin.com/71NryUFX With some extraction of common parameters at the top, there is first: your line, 451 characters, a simple like-for-like reduction, 275 characters, and a rearrangement of several terms that all use suicideBurnDuration at 242
<APlayer>
Huh. The formula is definitely correct, the output makes no sense
<Iskierka>
nearly halved the length for no readability sacrifice
<Iskierka>
although if the formula's not working to begin with subsituting an equivalent probably won't help
<Iskierka>
(if anything I'd argue it probably clears up readability because at least now the +/- separating "terms" in the integral are easily found)
<Iskierka>
also if readability doesn't matter ctrl+r of the log-whatever to logParam cuts it down to 251 and 218
<egg|work|egg>
bofh: yeah, they're the same (see that Trubowitz lecture that explains classical mechanics and an hour and QM in another)
<egg|work|egg>
UmbralRaptor: ^
<SnoopJeDi>
APlayer, I was making a fairly lazy Beagle/Hitman reference, heh.
<Iskierka>
as I read it more there's more deconstructions but not much point when the original isn't working P:
<bofh>
egg|work|egg: no, they're not, in fact the canonical quantization I use involves exactly replaing the Poisson bracket with the commutator >_>
<SnoopJeDi>
re: a calculation that is correct but doesn't work right (a la Beagle slamming into Mars because of unit conversions)
<bofh>
replacing*
<bofh>
One gives you classical and the other QM.
<egg|work|egg>
bofh: they're not, but they play the same role
<bofh>
Yes.
* egg|work|egg
gives bofh a Schwartz space
<SnoopJeDi>
hmm, or was it Beagle? now I can't recall
<APlayer>
Iskierka: Yes, it is shorter now, but what exactly makes it more readable? For me it remains the same cryptic formula as before, just not as scary because you hid the logs
<SnoopJeDi>
oh no it was the Mars Climate Orbiter
<egg|work|egg>
MCO
<bofh>
oh gods, MCO.
<SnoopJeDi>
idk why I always think it's Beagle 2
* UmbralRaptor
gives egg|work|egg a Schwartz inequality.
<bofh>
b/c I think one of those *also* crashlanded due to a similar fuckup.
<Iskierka>
you can easily read what parameters are going in and what they're interacting with, since groupable parameters have been grouped so you don't need to parse that they all appear together each time
<UmbralRaptor>
Beagle 2 IIRC didn't crash so much as fail to deploy panels after landing.
<SnoopJeDi>
yea Beagle 2 was lost, and I guess at the time I snarked about metric/imperial or something and created the pathological mental file-cabinet wormhole
<Iskierka>
transmitter was under the last panel and it couldn't deploy them all
<Iskierka>
so it was stuck half-alive but silenced
<bofh>
oh fuck so like Galileo but much worse :/
<APlayer>
That sucks
<SnoopJeDi>
I Have No Modulation and I Must Transmit
<APlayer>
Wouldn't want to be the one responsible for the solar panels
<bofh>
SnoopJeDi: ROFL
<UmbralRaptor>
Though TBF, Beagle 2's actual fate wasn't worked out for several years.
<UmbralRaptor>
(All hail HiRISE)
<Iskierka>
IIRC they saw another smudge at one point they thought might've been a crash site
<Iskierka>
until they eventually found the actual site with enough detail to work out it was intact and half-deployed
<bofh>
UmbralRaptor: HiRISE's resolution is fucking insane
<bofh>
you can see continents and large-scale weather phenomena :|
<SnoopJeDi>
O_O
<UmbralRaptor>
SnoopJeDi: HiRISE is the largest telescope not in Earth orbit.*
<Iskierka>
* or below ?
<UmbralRaptor>
*Herschel doesn't count because it left Earth orbit as part of the shutdown process.
* Iskierka
presumes it's not bigger than the Very Large Telescope
<UmbralRaptor>
Iskierka: well, yes.
<UmbralRaptor>
Largest space telescope?
<APlayer>
bofh: Is it just me, or is this whole long article basically a description of HDR images?
<UmbralRaptor>
hrm
<SnoopJeDi>
oh neat, the Moon as calibration, I like that
<UmbralRaptor>
Bleah, Spitzer is bigger (0.85 m vs 0.5 m)
<bofh>
I thought Spitzer was in LEO?
<APlayer>
Is there no sort of asteroid survey thing or something going on at L1?
<Iskierka>
why would there be?
<APlayer>
I thought there was?
<Iskierka>
why would you survey from L1?
<APlayer>
L1 is between the earth and the sun?
<Iskierka>
which would be beneficial why?
<APlayer>
IIRC because it could point back at earth and see asteroids that would otherwise be too close to the sun?
<Iskierka>
there wouldn't be a significant difference in perspective but there would be aspects such as it being potentially harder to see outward past Earth's glare
<Iskierka>
you can scan just as well from LEO and get periods of near total darkness to work in
<APlayer>
But you can't see anything inside earth's orbit
<Iskierka>
yes you can
<APlayer>
How?
<Iskierka>
... by pointing in
<APlayer>
There's the earth there
<Iskierka>
not on the day-side of the orbit
<APlayer>
In LEO during total darkness
<Iskierka>
you look inward between sun glare and earth glare during light, outward during night
<APlayer>
I am fairly certain there was at least some mission proposal that went rather far for something at L1 (or was is even somewhere at Venus or Mercury?)
<Iskierka>
if you were at L1 you'd have two directions permanently obscured, whereas orbit gives you potential to look closer to the sun at rise and set when planet blocks the glare
<Iskierka>
venus or mercury areas would be a significant gain in viewing area but are MUCH further than L1
<APlayer>
Yeah
<APlayer>
Not sure if I remember L1 correctly
<APlayer>
Probably inner solar system, then
<Iskierka>
well, technically not viewing area. Viewable volume? Increased spatial layout where it can view without having to avoid the sun
<UmbralRaptor>
bofh: earth trailing orbit for cost reasons.
<Iskierka>
I suspect you'd also lose ability to see the outer system with the increased heat in that area?
<APlayer>
You care about NEOs
<APlayer>
Not the outer system :P
<Iskierka>
plenty of things pass by earth from past mars
<Iskierka>
you want to know about these things
<APlayer>
I don't think there is as much of a threat from them as from NEOs?
<Iskierka>
there's a bigger threat if you don't bother looking at them
<Iskierka>
as there's LOTS more and they're in weirder orbits thanks to Jupiter
<Iskierka>
(on both counts)
<APlayer>
Well, I mean you can't have everything in one mission
<APlayer>
A Mars lander can't do Phobos science, even if there is lots to be learned
<APlayer>
Mars is currently arguably the more scientifically interesting place, so this is where we go
<Iskierka>
I mean it would actually be very easy to if it were a lander-orbiter mission
<Iskierka>
land the whole asembly on phobos for basically zero fuel cost then carry on with the main mission
<APlayer>
Was not done before, probably there are reasons
<APlayer>
Phobos orbit insertion and escape is the costly part, I guess
<APlayer>
Also, what a shame Phobos Grunt failed. I'd love to learn what they found out if it succeeded.
<kmath>
<1aprildaniels> Here's a fun sci-fi setup: there has never been a truly successful probe mission to Phobos. Why?
<Iskierka>
phobos really isn't costly
<Iskierka>
you could escape with a jumping mechanism
<FluffyFoxeh>
nuke the asteroids
<APlayer>
Jumping mechanisms sound not terribly reliable on a body whose surface properties we don't know at all
<Iskierka>
the point is that they would work
<Iskierka>
the fuel cost may as well be ni;l
<Iskierka>
it's only complexity that hasn't meant other missions visit it, but it could be put into any other mission with no vehicle performance increase, pretty much
<kmath>
<MisereGame> @1aprildaniels Maybe the probes are phobophobic? (Sorry.)
* Ellied
stares at .mozilla/firefox/webappstore.sqlite
<Ellied>
can't quite tell what this file is storing
<APlayer>
Delete it
<APlayer>
:P
<Ellied>
it looks like.... everything? it has hundreds, maybe thousands of URLs to various news articles I've never seen or read (highlight: npr.org/will-someone-please-adopt-this-total-bastard-of-a-cat)
<kmath>
<chordbug> your app is breaking on SOME feature of Unicode — so fix it!! oh wait, no, “normal users” write Latin script, preferably US ASCII English
* egg
sobs
* bofh
likewise sobs
<egg>
!wpn Fiora
* Qboid
gives Fiora a spinning salmiak
<egg>
bofh: ah but at least I get paid to sob at that
<kmath>
<FioraAeterna> Finally think I got down the eyebrow colors thanks to like an hour of help at Sephora. THE LONG GOOSE CHASE IS OVER… https://t.co/41pO7qM42a
<kmath>
<mistydemeo> “The recall involves 134 models of Kidde fire extinguishers manufactured between January 1, 1973 and August 15, 201… https://t.co/F0Nt1T00hX