egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
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<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ well, another thing is something like "地心地固" is not that comfortable in navball
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ idk whether it's better to keep such things like ECEF remain untranslated
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ well, another thing is something like "地心地固" is not that comfortable (looking kinda weird) in navball (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ well, another thing is something like "地心地固" is not that comfortable (looking kinda weird) in navball
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ (this strange short form also not likely to appear in essays of it in China) (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​HSM⟩ Does principia makes the game run slower?
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ Yes, it needs to numerically integrate everything instead of just using the simple stock formulas
<queqiao-_> ⟨T​HSM⟩ How much slower?
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ Depends on your computer, since it uses multithreading
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ I never noticed much change at all
<queqiao-_> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ If you have even 1 vessel in orbit, I don't think 6mil timewarp works anymore
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ 6mil timewarp doesn't work anyway with kerbalism, all the automation breaks down...
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​evladdd⟩ "патчед коникс ёпта"
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ так и переведу :)))
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​evladdd⟩ О да
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Однако сложно перевести простые вещи. Reference frame - это система координат, или может быть система отсчета? Как это будет по-русски?
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ I would suggest looking at how stuff is translated in Math for example, some of the concepts appear there too
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​evladdd⟩ 2, I think. But I'm a future seafarer, not a scientist
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​evladdd⟩ Btw English is preferred here for communication
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Yes, agree
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ it will also kill kerbals with TACLS
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<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ you may find "地心地固" weird, but it *is* standard terminology, and it *does* appear in papers; this is your expectations being poorly aligned with astrodynamics terminology in Chinese, not Principia coming up with weird things.
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ If it’s a good enough term for 国防科技大学学报 http://journal.nudt.edu.cn/publish_article/2014/1/201401015.pdf
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ or for 中国卫星导航系统管理办公室 http://www.beidou.gov.cn/xt/gfxz/202008/P020200803362063969518.pdf,
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ it’s a good enough term for Principia.
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<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ But I'm also not finding a good equivalent to ECEF and similar frames in Russian. Literal translation sounds weird, standard terms for this kind of reference frame are linked to the Earth and will sound weird when applied to other bodies. Trying to translate these abbreviations could be worse than keeping them in English.
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ If there are no acronyms I won't invent them, the French version uses full words
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ But we need acronyms for the buttons in the selector window?
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ nope
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ Réf. terrestre on the ball for ECEF in French iirc, and just Surface on that button column
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Surface is very good, I it will work in Russian as well
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Surface is very good, it will work in Russian as well (edited)
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<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ nah, clearly akkadian is the preferred language here
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ (translation: Target-K-O (short for Target-Kerbin-Orbit), gal. (short for galilean), KSO (short for Kerbin-Sun-Orbit), tied to Kerbin (which is how you say Kerbin-centred, Kerbin-fixed); référentiel means reference frame, réf for short if the whole word doesn’t fit)
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ This part is missing in en-us.cfg, that I'm trying to translate. English and French versions appear to work differently... #principia_ReferenceFrameSelector_NavballName_Target.fr-fr = Réf. Cible-<<C:2>>-O
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ #principia_ReferenceFrameSelector_NavballName_BodyCentredNonRotating.fr-fr = Réf. gal. <<1>>
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ #principia_ReferenceFrameSelector_NavballName_BodyCentredParentDirection.fr-fr = Référentiel <<C:2>><<C:4>>O
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ #principia_ReferenceFrameSelector_NavballName_BodySurface.fr-fr = Réf. lié à <<A:1>>
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ don’t worry, I’ll do the reference frames
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ this stuff requires looking up looots of papers to get a feel for the proper terminology
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ and then trying to squeeze it into the UI using those mechanisms
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ the important thing is to get the bulk of the text done, because that I can’t do without speaking Russian
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ I think we should go with система отсчёта. the dynamical aspect is what is important, the user never sees the coordinates, so система *координат* emphasizes the wrong thing; see for instance <https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B0_%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%81%D1%87%D1%91%D1%82
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ ok, changing to система отсчёта
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ gotta love cyrillic italics where a т suddenly looks like an m :D
<queqiao-_> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ Cyrillic links look fun on discord
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ I think we should go with система отсчёта. the dynamical aspect is what is important, the user never sees the coordinates, so система *координат* emphasizes the wrong thing; see for instance <https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Инерциальная_система_отсчёта> (that would be the inertial frames like ECI etc.) (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​oviet Onion⟩ he changed it now 👀
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ yeah chrome copies the percent-encoded URL if you copy the whole thing
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ one more question about reference frame names: would it be correct to desribe ECEF as "Earth-centric rotating" reference frame?
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ again, just ignore that question, I’ll need to figure it out. Maybe it should be called Географическая (планетографическая in general), maybe there is another better term
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ OK, so this is what I have so far: mostly everything is translated, descriptive names of reference frames are rather approximate ("Earth-centric rotating"...), acronyms of reference frames are unchanged from English (I think I would rather prefer that in my game...). Not sure about some other translations, including some simple words like "rebase", "coast", "inertially fixed", and some others
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ ITU-R HDB 55 has *В системе отсчета вращающейся Земли* for *Dans le référentiel en rotation de la Terre*, that’s always an option though verbose
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ For rebase I use the terminology from translations of git documentation, it used as a source-control term here. All the orbit analyser terminology I will have to do myself from papers, it is super technical, so don’t worry about nodal/anomalistic etc.
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ For rebase I use the terminology from translations of git documentation, it by analogy to a source-control term here. All the orbit analyser terminology I will have to do myself from papers, it is super technical, so don’t worry about nodal/anomalistic etc. (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ There probably won’t be acronyms, just like in French.
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ (the navball might read сус. вращ. Земли or whatever, but not a russian acronym unless I can find one that is actually used)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ For rebase I use the terminology from translations of git documentation, it is by analogy to a source-control term here. All the orbit analyser terminology I will have to do myself from papers, it is super technical, so don’t worry about nodal/anomalistic etc. (edited)
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<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ ITU-R HDB 55, 10.4 (emphasis mine)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ > Как уже рассматривалось выше, исходные точки *земных систем координат*, как правило, расположены в центре массы Земли, а их полярные оси связаны с направлением оси, неподвижной относительно земной коры.
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ nodal period is узловой период, see, e.g., ITU-R V.573
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Updated nodal period to узловой период. Still not sure about Nodal revolutions - Синодических оборотов или Узловых оборотов? Fixed a typo elsewhere.
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ As for this - "земных систем координат" - земных means terrestrial, and would sound weird when applied to any other body.
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ As for this - "земных систем координат" - земных means terrestrial, and would sound weird if applied to any other body. (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ As for this - "земных систем координат" - земных means terrestrial, and will sound weird if applied to any other body. (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ yeah; this would be for the celestial strings
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<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ (certainly none of this is Синодических; the term synodic involves a relationship between multiple periods)
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​douge⟩ система отчёта (физфак подъехал)
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​douge⟩ система отчёта (физфак подъехал) Sorry, late to the party (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ @von Kerman what are your GitHub and KSP forum usernames (for credit in release notes etc.)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ I see you did some неподвижен/неподвижна, but the localization libraries used by KSP actually allow for better than that: https://lingoona.com/cgi-bin/grammar#l=fr&t=%3C%3C1%3E%3E+%3C%3C1+%7B%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%2F%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B6%D0%BD%D0%B0%7D%3E%3E.&v1=%D0%97%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%8F%5Ef&oh=1
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ (I’ll fix it, now that the bulk of the translation is done I can handle the small linguistic tweaks)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ I see you did some неподвижен/неподвижна, but the localization libraries used by KSP actually allow for better than that: https://lingoona.com/cgi-bin/grammar#l=ru&t=%3C%3C1%3E%3E+%3C%3C1+%7B%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%2F%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B6%D0%BD%D0%B0%7D%3E%3E.&v1=%D0%97%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%8F%5Ef&oh=1 (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ I see you did some неподвижен/неподвижна, but the localization libraries used by KSP actually allow for better than that: https://lingoona.com/cgi-bin/grammar#l=ru&t=%3C%3C1%3E%3E+%3C%3C1%7B%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%2F%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B6%D0%BD%D0%B0%2F%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B6%D0%BD%D0%BE%7D%3E%3
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ Looks like перебазирование is rebasing :-p https://git-scm.com/book/ru/v2/Ветвление-в-Git-Перебазирование
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Fixed them to be von-Kerman on github and von Kerman on the forum.
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Yes, translating "rebase" as "перебазировать" is obvious, it's literally the same word. But I'm not sure it's clear enough. Typical usage of "перебазировать": "rebase a factory to a new location", "move a military unit to another base". The main English translation is therefore "to relocate". How well does it describe what the button does to the flight plan?
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ But if it's used in Git, maybe it's ok.
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Also found a bad error in my file:
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ #principia_ReferenceFrameSelector_Name_Target = Target-<<1>>-Orbit
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ translated as
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ #principia_ReferenceFrameSelector_Name_Target = Орбита <<1>> вокруг цели
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ totally incorrect, should be probably
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ #principia_ReferenceFrameSelector_Name_Target = Орбита цели вокруг <<1>>
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Btw, you can put text between two backticks: `#principia` so that Discord doesn't think it's a channel.
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Btw, you can put text between two backticks: `#principia_ReferenceFrameSelector_Name_Target = Target-<<1>>-Orbit` so that Discord doesn't think it's a channel. (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ oh ok sorry
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ '#principia_ReferenceFrameSelector_Name_Target = Орбита цели вокруг <<1>>' (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ "#principia_ReferenceFrameSelector_Name_Target = Орбита цели вокруг <<1>>" (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ `#principia_ReferenceFrameSelector_Name_Target = Орбита цели вокруг <<1>>` (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ `#principia_ReferenceFrameSelector_Name_Target = Орбита <<1>> вокруг цели` (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ `#principia_ReferenceFrameSelector_Name_Target = Target-<<1>>-Orbit` (edited)
<bees> pereschitat?
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ pereschitat - means "Recalculate"
<bees> that is probably closer to actual functionality, no?
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Yes and no, it does recalculate the flight plan, but it's not a simple recalculation - the beginning of the flight plan moves so that it starts "now" (not in the past) and it starts from the actual trajectory of the vessel, as it is now... I'm not sure which word is best.
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Yes and no, it does recalculate the flight plan, but it's not a simple recalculation - the beginning of the flight plan moves, so that the plan starts "now" (not in the past) and it starts from the actual trajectory of the vessel, as it is now... I'm not sure which word is best. (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Here is the corrected file.
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ it’s just an awkward calque of a source control term, even in English, making the same calque is the only thing that can make sense.
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ no I don’t think that is correct, it is three independent words, not a phrase.
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ note the hyphens ; it is not « target X orbit », it is Target-X-Orbit
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ at this point I’m working with that file under source control, so I don’t think sending me the file again and again is going to help much. let’s just discuss the things and I’ll make the changes if appropriate.
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ it is the analogue of Kerbin-Sun-Orbit, so if we wanted to translate it directly, i.e., if we cannot find an adequate term in Russian, it would really just is the three words in the nominative, Цель-<<1>>-Орбита
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ it is the analogue of Kerbin-Sun-Orbit, so if we wanted to translate it directly, i.e., if we cannot find an adequate term in Russian, it would really just be the three words in the nominative, Цель-<<1>>-Орбита (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ this is probably what it is going to be called, the term in English is a calque of things like Jupiter-Sun-Orbit to start with rather than being a thing—usually you don’t talk about target vessels in the abstract, you have working reference frames for your space station
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ this is probably what it is going to be called, the term in English is a calque of things like Jupiter-Sun-Orbit to start with rather than being a thing—usually you don’t talk about target vessels in the abstract, you have working reference frames for your space station. (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ hm, it looks like @sichelgaita had objected to rebaser, and that in french we went with reconstruire (rebuild). I suppose something like перестроить could work.
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ the перестройка of the flight plan!
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​douge⟩ ....the plan, according to which everything is going, as I have realized, waking up in the middle of the night. (russian punk moment)
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​douge⟩
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​douge⟩ Wouldn't something like "пересчитать" actually fit? "recalculating plans" and "calculating plans through" are semantically valid, in russian. You'd say that about "rebasing" your chess strategy/business plan
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​douge⟩ ....the plan, according to which everything is going, as I have realized, waking up in the middle of the night. (russian punk moment)
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​douge⟩
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​douge⟩ Wouldn't something like "пересчитать" actually fit? "recalculating plans" and "calculating plans through" are semantically valid, in russian. You'd say that about "rebasing" your chess strategy/business plan. The fact that it is done *now* is kind of implied, if I understand what rebase does correctly (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ rebase reapplies every step of the plan on top of a new initial state (hence rebase, it’s what the source control sense is about)
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ I like 'перестроить' more than 'пересчитать', it'#s probably the best word
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ I like 'перестроить' more than 'пересчитать', it's probably the best word (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Or maybe make it longer: пересчитать с текущего момента, meaning recalculate from current moment / from now?
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​douge⟩ yeah, although intuitively, they both fit. перестроить would be semantically closer to the meaning, though, yes - unless a phrase instead of a word is used
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​douge⟩
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​douge⟩ In any case, using a form of перебазировать is definitely a bad idea, even the people who know what the english term is copied from would get confused, since all IT people use "runglish" anyway
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ clearly the solution to <https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/3035> should be a *declutter* button that hides some of the noodles. Obviously it should be next to the rebase button, and should be called Гласност in the Russian version :-p
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​douge⟩ axaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxaxxaxa
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ clearly the solution to <https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/3035> should be a *declutter* button that hides some of the noodles. Obviously it should be next to the rebase button, and should be called Гласность in the Russian version :-p (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​douge⟩ Glasnost was part of what brought the soviet union down, so I won't be pressing that button, having KSP & principia already working my laptop to its limits
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ (that joke only works with the usual english translation of *transparency*, the actual sence of publicity of debates makes no sense for a declutter button)
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​douge⟩ while I'm at it, flight history and prediction length are the main source of RAM comsumption on principia's side?
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ (that joke only works with the usual english translation of *transparency*, the actual sense of publicity of debates makes no sense for a declutter button) (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Press it and if you are launching from Baikonur, your funding begins to drop
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​douge⟩ and you start losing rep, and can't keep reporting failed military satellites as some abstract interkosmos payloads
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ After a while you get better station crew contracts
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ it’s complicated, histories also contribute, and the relation between RAM usage and performance problems is very complicated. And hopefully things will change with the upcoming solution of 2400 within the current five-year plan.
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​douge⟩ 🤝
<raptop> Okay, how do you backronym Госплан to include the word "egg"?
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​douge⟩ ...ГГосплан?
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​douge⟩ ...Ггосплан?
<queqiao-_> ⟨A​douge⟩ the "e" sound will come naturally while pondering the otherwise never-occurring double Г (edited)