egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
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<queqiao-_> ⟨g​ravShark⟩ upon searching I am finding somewhat conflicting info so hoping I can get clarification here. Say I'm planning a manuever in the flight planner, it puts the manuever into the navball etc etc. the stock Burn Time detects it to be half before and half after the node, but in the Principia flight planner window it seems to count down to the node time specifically for burn start, not the 50/50. I hav
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ stock doesn’t do 50/50 ; it assumes that you detonate a nuclear bomb at the exact time of the burn, and 50/50 is a heuristic people use to be less wrong.
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ Principia models your burn as a finite burn, you should use its ignitions countdown as ignition countdowns
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ indeed, the UI says « ignition »
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ not « mid-burn »
<queqiao-_> ⟨g​ravShark⟩ Got it, I assumed that was the case, thank you. Been struggling getting back into principia even though i played RO/RP0 with it for years. Just a bit rusty lol
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ @von Kerman is система отсчёта связанная с <<ins:1>> appropriately/comprehensibly abbreviated as сис. связанная с <<ins:1>>?
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ Also keep in mind that engines in RO have an ignition time, so you actually want to start the burn *slightly* before Principia tells you to, depending on the engine
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ "сис." is not very good, it's better to abbreviate "система" as "сист.". You can also abbreviate "связанная" as "связ.".
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​oviet Onion⟩ ah yes. Some mods also have an optional configuration for engine spool-up
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ thanks. Also, same question for
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ система отсчёта инерциальная с центром на <<pre:1>>
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ as
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ сист. инерц. <<gen:1>>
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ (where <<pre:1>> would be Земле, <<gen:1>> Земли)
<bees> consider C.O. or CO if you are _that_ limited by space
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ (it’s the text above the navball, so it is somewhat constrained)
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ СО is more difficult to understand than сист.
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ sorry, this is not the answer to your question...
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ yeah but it is still useful information :D
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ What do you think about <<gen:1>>-центрическая инерциальная, or <<gen:1>>-центр. инерц.?
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ "сист." is rather redundant on the navball, it just takes place
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ I kept Réf. in French, there is enough room and otherwise it is a weird sentence fragment which annoys me :-p
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ only... "gen:1" is probably not the right form for that. it should be nominative.
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ the phrase "Марса-центрическая" is not attested, which worries me
<bees> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2dnMazoqC4&t=3178s - even official Roscosmos feed resorts to abbreviations (bottom left, wait a few sec until it switches launguage)
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ "Марс-центрическая" kind of artificial, but understandable. (note it's "Марс" - nominative, not gen:1)
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ The very proper name would be "Ареоцентрическая" i think - but it's less understandable for non-astronomers/engineers/etc.
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ "Марс-центрическая" is kind of artificial, but understandable. (note it's "Марс" - nominative, not gen:1) (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ yeah we can have overrides per-celestial anyway (Principia will say heliocentric rather than sun-centred), but it is good if the generic term works
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ We definitely need an override for Earth and the Sun, "геоцентрическая" and "гелиоцентрическая"
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ The Moon - maybe - the term is "селеноцентрическая" but it's rather less known probably (?)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ re. bees’s point, the question is whether there are acronyms in common use *for reference frames*, and ones that can be generalized to arbitrary bodies, not whether there are acronyms in aerospace in general
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ ОСК (orbital) and ИСК (inertial) seem to be attested, but they don’t mention the bodies
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Such acronyms may exist somewhere but it's not clear how commonly they are used
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ And I don't expect the user will easily understand them (I wouldn't)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ well, the point is to teach terminology that exists, not to stay within what the user already knows
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ but the question of whether some terminology is actually in common use in aerospace can be tricky
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ e.g. principia does not use terms such as areocentric because nobody says that in practice
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Well, I'm not in aerospace industry or anything like that, so can't tell what is common there. I look it from a user's point of view 🙂
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Well, I'm not in aerospace industry or anything like that, so I can't tell what is common there. I look it from a user's point of view 🙂 (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Well, I'm not in aerospace industry or anything like that, so I can't tell what is common there. I look at it from a user's point of view 🙂 (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ According to this, "ИСО" is a valid abbreviation, so the navball should show "ИСО <<gen:1>>" https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B0_%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%81%D1%87%D1%91%D1%82%D0%B0#:~:text=%D0%98%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B0%CC%81%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F%20%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%81%
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ ИСО - meaning inertial system of reference.
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Searching the internet for "ИСО Земли" produces quite a lot of results. It seems to be actually used.
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ not relevant results though.
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ OK I do find things for ИСО Земли and ИСО Марса (and when both are together it actually means that, not ISO or something else)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ ОСК seems to be a thing, Орбитальная система координат but ОСО quite a lot less so
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<bees> just email Roscosmos and ask
<bees> you would probably absolutely confuse whoever would read that email
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ hah
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ I mean, I managed to find the correct terminology for Chinese and I can read Chinese far, far, less than Russian, so surely this should be doable
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ looks like приборной системы координат (ПСК) is a thing occasionally but that sounds more like a σκοπος thing :-p
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<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ связанная система координат ССК appears to be attested, if it is связанная с X.INS that is XCXF
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<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ aha! Наземная система координат
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<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ СК связанная с X is probably better though, НСК is getting rather obscure
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Наземная is good and understandable if not abbreviated
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ yeah but then you need to wonder how to wedge in the name of the celestial
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Наземная СО Земли.... Not great because the word Земли is redundant
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ yeah, very earthy
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ So, navball names would be ОСК цели / ИСК Марса / ОСК Марса / СК связ. с Марсом (and the name in the selector description would be the expansion of that)
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ It's interesting that we are going back to система координат instead of система отсчета
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ I’m still unsure what to do here
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ ИСО Марса seems attested whereas ИСК is not, but ОСО isn’t a thing that I can find whereas ОСК ис
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ ИСО Марса seems attested whereas ИСК is not, but ОСО isn’t a thing that I can find whereas ОСК is/, ЛЕТ’С НОТ СТАРТ СПЕАКИНГ еНГЛИСХ ЛИКЕ ТХИС (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ ИСО Марса seems attested whereas ИСК is not, but ОСО isn’t a thing that I can find whereas ОСК is (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ s\/ис/is/, ЛЕТ’С НОТ СТАРТ СПЕАКИНГ еНГЛИСХ ЛИКЕ ТХИС
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ ИСО Марса seems attested whereas ИСК is not, but ОСО isn’t a thing that I can find whereas ОСК ис (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ КОИ-8 jokes best jokes
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ ОСК agrees with ГОСТ 25645.301-83, which sounds nice
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ > Орбитальная система координат (*Ornb*) имеет начало в центре масс ИСЗ:
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ > ось *Or* направлена по радиусу-вектору ИСЗ в сторону его увеличения;
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ > ось *Ob* нормальна плоскости орбиты ИСЗ и направлена в сторону, обратную вектору кинетического момента движения ИСЗ;
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ > ось *On* лежит в плоскости орбиты, направлена по нормали к радиусу-вектору, положительное направление ее совпадает с направлением движения ИСЗ.
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<queqiao-_> ⟨O​asis⟩ Mmmm
<queqiao-_> ⟨O​asis⟩ Funny letters
<queqiao-_> ⟨O​asis⟩ Nice
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<queqiao-_> ⟨F​arrier⟩ 👀