egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5323/
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​umpkinaxe⟩ Theoretically, if I downloaded
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​umpkinaxe⟩ Theoretically, if I downloaded Principia for the n-th time, would it be unreasonable to delete folders for other operating systems like linux or mac?
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<queqiao-_> ⟨D​RVeyl⟩ BTW, how is .σκοπος pronounced?
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5323/
<raptop> This feels relevant for some sort of challenge https://arxiv.org/abs/2112.11506
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​umpkinaxe⟩ heh, i confused sedna with ceres and was a bit confused when reading that. Like, do you really need 20 years to get to ceres???
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<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ emm
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ looks kinda direct? (directly inject to a Jupiter transfer?)
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ because trying to further squeeze delta-v cost to 4000ish will require Venus/Earth assists
<raptop> presumably
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​ucgamer⟩ Hey guys I'm new whit principia, I've downloaded it and moved the files to gamedata, but when I open the game it loads the expansions, (making history and breaking ground) but later that the game only closes, idk what to do
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ screenshot of modlist, and KSP.log please @lucgamer
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​ucgamer⟩ I can do that, but tomorrow, if I turn the PC on now my dad's gonna kill me
<raptop> I have a few random guesses based off of the FAQ (C++ dll?)
<queqiao-_> ⟨Q​uadrupole⟩ Referring to the Sedna paper, I like it that they actually considered Oberth maneuver, which is basically
<queqiao-_> ⟨Q​uadrupole⟩ https://xkcd.com/1244/
<raptop> I mean, drop to the sun and do a big prograde burn at perihelion is an idea that's out there
<queqiao-_> ⟨Q​uadrupole⟩ Also duh, today I learned the way to go to sun-earth L4/5 is first burn into a Hilda orbit and then circularize at the Lagrange point. That was my first thought, but I thought that was inefficient
<raptop> ooh, shiny
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<queqiao-_> ⟨J​ovietus Gravitas⟩ Is a Hilda orbit a transfer to Lagrange point?
<queqiao-_> ⟨J​ovietus Gravitas⟩ Could you please post a screenshot of that?
<raptop> Apparently it works as one. In the case of the Hilda group proper, it means a 3:2 resonance orbit (though not quite like neptune-pluto)
<queqiao-_> ⟨J​ovietus Gravitas⟩ Either way, I try to head over to L1 or L2 around the sun, but I don't get that kidney bean shape. I only get a twist on my escape from earth.
<queqiao-_> ⟨Q​uadrupole⟩ I never did a sun-earth L1/2 mission, but I guess you can inject way off the point itself, a la JWST
<queqiao-_> ⟨Q​uadrupole⟩ You see the amplitude is comparable to the distance to earth
<queqiao-_> ⟨J​ovietus Gravitas⟩ What is the difference between a lyapunov orbit, a Lissajous orbit and a halo orbit?
<queqiao-_> ⟨Q​uadrupole⟩ Halo orbit has a significant z-component?
<queqiao-_> ⟨J​ovietus Gravitas⟩ I know that a Lissajous orbit makes a wierd shape whenn you look at the Wikipedia gif long enough.
<queqiao-_> ⟨m​orzenmebs⟩ The lissajous curve
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<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ Kerbinator, please don’t tell people to do things that are useless. We do not care about KSP.log, we have our own logs.
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<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ not weird
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ \*logs
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ You'll find that it roughly having a pattern
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ You'll find it roughly having a pattern (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ (however I don't get it exactly how to inject into that type of orbit; halo and lyapunov gets easier to understand, though.
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ Here's the final shape
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ and to be more exact
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ Such shape is easily obtainable by having an eclipse whose long axis has a certain angle to Z axis, and rotate the eclipse. Get a point on eclipse moving at a manner that on the plane of eclipse will easily create such a shape via printing a locus
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​umguy⟩ Ellipse?
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ Ecliepse
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ Eclipse (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ No, you mean ellipse.
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ Such shape is easily obtainable by having an eclipse whose long axis has a certain angle to Z axis, and rotate the ellipse. Get a point on eclipse moving at a manner that on the plane of eclipse will easily create such a shape via printing a locus (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ (right?)
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​umguy⟩ You missed one
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ btw what manoeurve should I burn to get me into such orbit
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ Such shape is easily obtainable by having an ellipse whose long axis has a certain angle to Z axis, and rotate the ellipse. Get a point on eclipse moving at a manner that on the plane of eclipse will easily create such a shape via printing a locus (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ From Lyapunov to Halo I know
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ and from an escape orbit to Lyapunov is also relatively easy
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ and from an (almost) escape orbit to Lyapunov is also relatively easy (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ I'm opening KSP now (principia installed)
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ Is it normal that the "0000 77xx m/s" mark wobbling around the vessel frequently
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ and manoeuvre not existing on navball
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ (haven't played new principia for a few months at least)
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ Now seems to be going Lissajous for 2 orbits now
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ (A complete Lissajous orbit requires simply too much time and can hardly be displayed fully)
<queqiao-_> ⟨Q​uadrupole⟩ It is likely that you F12'ed into a perfectly equitorial orbit and Principia divided by zero while finding the nodes.
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ No
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ Firstly this is in ECSA (ESO, or GSE) frame, and Ecliptic plane is 0 for AN/DN
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ another thing is, I used set orbit command to put me into equitorial LEO, then use infinite fuel cheat to burn 4000m/s for burn to Ecliptic-aligned LEO
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<queqiao-_> ⟨l​ucgamer⟩ hi guys im again
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​ucgamer⟩ hi guys im here again (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​ucgamer⟩ can i share the screenshots and the ksp.log here?
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ Ksp.log isn't useful, go into glog/principia and look for a FATAL log
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​ucgamer⟩ okay
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​ucgamer⟩ okay so im reading the FATAL log
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​ucgamer⟩ but idk what to do
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ Screenshot?
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​ucgamer⟩ going
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​ucgamer⟩ here
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ Read the last line
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​ucgamer⟩ F1227 00:23:43.785826 6188 ksp_plugin_adapter.cs:324] Unexpected KSP version 1.12.3; this build targets 1.8.1, 1.9.1, 1.10.1, 1.11.x, and 1.12.2.
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​ucgamer⟩ by what i understand it says that the mod vertion dont support my game vertion
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ Yep, that's why it crashed
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​ucgamer⟩ okay, that explain it
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ Oh, 1.12.3
<queqiao-_> ⟨!​Kerbinator (UTC+8)!⟩ Principia have strict version check
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<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy reviewed pull request #3257 commit - https://git.io/Jy4yF
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy reviewed pull request #3257 commit - https://git.io/Jy4yb
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy labeled pull request #3257: NaN-aware consistency check - https://git.io/JyWfH
<queqiao-_> ⟨l​ucgamer⟩ So I have to wait until the next vertion?
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin synchronize pull request #3256: Instant DebugString consistent with operator<< - https://git.io/JyWfR
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5324/
<queqiao-_> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ You can also downgrade KSP to .2
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin synchronize pull request #3257: NaN-aware consistency check - https://git.io/JyWfH
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ or you can use the escape hatch, but in that case we won’t help you with any issues you run into.
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin synchronize pull request #3257: NaN-aware consistency check - https://git.io/JyWfH
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5324/
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5325/
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin closed pull request #3256: Instant DebugString consistent with operator<< - https://git.io/JyWfR
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±6] https://git.io/Jy4ja
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin 12ff887 - Instant DebugString
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin deee8f8 - iwyu
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin e22b015 - Merge pull request #3256 from eggrobin/instant-debugstring Instant DebugString consistent with operator<<
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin closed issue #3235: The camera rotates in the plotting frame when KSP uses a rotating reference frame - https://git.io/JDS3H
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin closed pull request #3249: Orient the camera in CelestialSphere, not World - https://git.io/Jyqwe
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±4] https://git.io/Jy4jQ
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin f380596 - Orient the camera in CelestialSphere, not World
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin 8b0c14c - Merge pull request #3249 from eggrobin/camera-orientation Orient the camera in CelestialSphere, not World
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin synchronize pull request #3257: NaN-aware consistency check - https://git.io/JyWfH
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5325/
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5326/
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/5326/
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ @von Kerman which one reads better:
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ 1. Анализ окончательной орбиты: синхронная орбита вокруг Кербина
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ 2. Анализ окончательной орбиты: синхронная вокруг Кербина
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ @von Kerman which one reads better:
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ 1. Анализ окончательной орбиты: синхронная орбита вокруг Кербина
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ 2. Анализ окончательной орбиты: синхронная вокруг Кербина
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ 3. Анализ окончательной орбиты: синхронной вокруг Кербина (edited)
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin closed pull request #3257: NaN-aware consistency check - https://git.io/JyWfH
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin pushed 5 commits to master [+0/-0/±5] https://git.io/JyBnR
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin 85bd886 - NaN-aware consistency check
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin c2d8f79 - 𒈬
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin 2cab416 - is
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] ... and 2 more commits.
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ 1 or 2, not 3
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ 1 or 2, not 3
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ and between 1 and 2? does 2 feel too terse? or does 1 feel redundant?
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Both are OK, it's difficult to say which is best
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ OK, in that case 2 is best because otherwise your windows are that much wider :-p
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ wide window
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ @von Kerman are there standard abbreviations for delete/(add or insert? in french I was able to use suppr. and ins. but Удалить Добавить are a bit long (not the end of the world, I can make the buttons wider, but if there is a well-established short form that’s better)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ @von Kerman are there standard abbreviations for delete/(add or insert)? in french I was able to use suppr. and ins. but Удалить Добавить are a bit long (not the end of the world, I can make the buttons wider, but if there is a well-established short form that’s better) (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ You could maybe abbreviate "Удалить" as "Удал." but it's not standard
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ "Добавить" - "Добав." but again, I wouldn't call it standard
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ seems to be somewhat attested at least (cursory googling finds user manuals with Добав./удал.Избранные)
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ it's more or less ok
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ "окончательная" - could also be translated as "финальная", which is shorter
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ so "окончательной" - "финальной"
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ "эллиптическая" - "эллиптич." which is shorter and doesn't change
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ > финальная
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ that is starting to look like the sort of Russian they speak at the beginning of Война и Мир
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ no, it's a common word
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ (I was just joking that it resembles the french word :-p)
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ Yes, it's a loanword, but it's used very often
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<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ sadly while lingoona manages to turn `<<gen:круговой орбита^f>>` into круговой орбиты, it turns `<<gen:Ñ�инхронный орбита^f>>` into Ñ�инхронную орбиты (we’re fresh out of genitive, but we’ve got some fine accusative for cheap!) and `<<gen:круговой Ñ�инхронный орбита^f>>` круговой Ñ�инхронныйой орÐ
<queqiao-_> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Does it normally do stuff like that?
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ it does some interesting things, but it certainly doesn’t shine by its documentation, so normality is hard to ascertain. But it does that, normal or not: <https://lingoona.com/cgi-bin/grammar#l=ru&t=%3C%3Cgen%3A%D0%BA%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9+%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%85%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9+%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%5Ef%3E%3E&oh=1>
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​RVeyl⟩ Are you confusing it with case? (Ending ой is masculine or neuter, but орбита is feminine?)
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​RVeyl⟩ Are you confusing it with case? (Adjective Ending ой is masculine or neuter, but орбита is feminine?) (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​RVeyl⟩ Are you confusing it with gender? (Adjective Ending ой is masculine or neuter, but орбита is feminine?) (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ well, I’m trying to get it to handle case, but if I feed it nominative feminine adjective it’s even bloodier
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ `<<gen:круговая синхронная орбита^f>>` круговаяей синхронную орбиты 🙃
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​RVeyl⟩ Gen should be :круговой орбиты I think
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ yup, it is able to construct the genitive feminine correctly for that adjective
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ but only if I give it the nominative masculine
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ and also only if it is the first adjective, because if I flip them around I get синхронную круговойой орбиты
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ oy indeed
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​RVeyl⟩ Or :круговой синхронной орбиты for gen singular
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ yeah
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​RVeyl⟩ Yeah, I have no idea what longoona is doing ;)
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ the conclusion is probably that I can’t decline orbit descriptions, so nominative in parentheses it will be
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ to be fair lingoona is somewhat beyond the bleeding edge of technology in that realm, ICU doesn’t try anything as fancy
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ as a result, it is quite bloody indeed :-p
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​RVeyl⟩ Or wait for von Kerman to get back, since my memory of declension is gotta be 20 years out of date.
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ well, looking up declension tables isn’t hard, but I don’t want to write bespoke code and strings to do grammar to the rather complex beast that is orbit description ; if lingoona can’t decline adjective, I won’t decline adjectives
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ well, looking up declension tables isn’t hard, but I don’t want to write bespoke code and strings to do grammar to the rather complex beast that is orbit description ; if lingoona can’t decline adjective sequences, I won’t decline adjective sequences (edited)
<queqiao-_> ⟨D​RVeyl⟩ Ahh, I begin to understand now.
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ Principia has fancy orbit detection and analysis code that tells you that you are in, e.g., a highly eccentric equatorial geosynchronous orbit; that translates relatively well, but then the flight plan says that you coast *in* highly eccentric equatorial geosynchronous orbit, and there things become sad with case
<queqiao-_> ⟨v​on Kerman⟩ I can just confirm again that the text will be understandable without declension
<queqiao-_> ⟨e​gg⟩ yeah I will just make it Полёт в течёние [some time] (blah blah орбита вокруг Кербина), that way it’s not actually incorrect
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