ferram4 changed the topic of #RO to: Welcome to the discussion channel for the Realism Overhaul (meta)mod for KSP! Realism Overhaul Main Thread https://goo.gl/wH7Dzb ! RO Spreadsheet http://goo.gl/Oem3g0 ! Code of Conduct http://goo.gl/wOSv2M ! | Maximal & soundnfury's RP-1 Race Into Space Signup: http://bit.ly/2DEVm2i [15:01] <soundnfury> Straight Eight Stronk (and) RP-0/1 is basically "Space Agency Spreadsheet Simulator"
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<soundnfury>
KevinStarwaster: ehh I read it somewhere on r/SpaceX
<soundnfury>
probs best if you ask about it in #SpaceX, they'll know more/better about it than I
<ProjectThoth>
Or ask a local #SpaceX representative.
<ProjectThoth>
KevinStarwaster: What knowledge do you seek?
<soundnfury>
ProjectThoth: <KevinStarwaster> The new BFR Raptor engines don't look long enough to be the vacuum variety...
<ProjectThoth>
KevinStarwaster: They're probably multi-altitude optimized, like the SSME.
<soundnfury>
ProjectThoth: they _are_ high-chamber-pressure staged-combustion engines, so yes :)
<ProjectThoth>
Payloads mounted perpendicular to g-loads on launch.
<soundnfury>
that's probably why it needs all that cradle, 'longeron fittings' etc.
<soundnfury>
i.e. it's not just mounted through the SRM attachment
<ProjectThoth>
But how do satellite not go boom?
<soundnfury>
Obviously not ideal, but if it's the only way to fit it inside the fairing...
<soundnfury>
Why would it go boom? As long as it's supported properly, it can handle g-loads in any direction if it's built to handle that
<ProjectThoth>
I'm under the assumption that satellites don't really like non-axial acceleration.
<ProjectThoth>
The bigger context here is that I'm trying to figure out the most reasonable reentry and landing configuration for an upper stage or SSTO.
<soundnfury>
If they weren't designed for it, sure
<ProjectThoth>
Nose-in is great for reentry, but sucks for passenger and payload stuff, because the loads get all fucky.
<soundnfury>
ehh, re-entry loads (assuming a lifting re-entry) are less than launch
<ProjectThoth>
I wouldn't want to be squeezed up against my seatbelt for reentry!
<soundnfury>
sure, but a 'nose-first' lifting-body is actually seeing a mostly-downwards g, because (a) it's lifting and (b) it's pitched upwards
<ProjectThoth>
Even something like the DC-X?
<soundnfury>
well I'm not sure about that
<soundnfury>
I don't know the details of its re-entry profile
<soundnfury>
if you _do_ have something too severe, you can always have reconfigurable seats of course
* soundnfury
is now picturing the rotating seat in Thunderbird 1 ;)
<ProjectThoth>
Then I worry about, say, returning satellites.
<ProjectThoth>
Problem with bringing stuff in tail-down is that you have to protect the engines.
<soundnfury>
well then you can only return satellites that were designed to be returnable within a g-envelope you can provide
<soundnfury>
and you may need to take up a cradle like the one in your image to put them in. Or maybe some bubble wrap :p
<ProjectThoth>
Is it worth the trade-off for making reentry easier?
<soundnfury>
that depends. If you're going to be able to be a big enough part of the market for this stuff that people are going to design satellites to accomodate it, then maybe
<soundnfury>
otherwise I think a tail-down lifting-body (somewhere on the spectrum from BFS to STS-like winged designs) is probably your best bet.
<soundnfury>
note that STS's failure wasn't because it had wings ;)
<ProjectThoth>
Articulating heat shields aren't that bad, I guess.
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<soundnfury>
ProjectThoth: you don't necessarily even need that
<soundnfury>
it's only tail-_down_, not tail-_first_
<soundnfury>
so depending on how much L/D you've got to play with, you may only need more of an articulating _aeroshell_, and that more for aerodynamic than thermal loads
<ProjectThoth>
soundnfury: And there's always retropropulsion, but that irks me because it's so inefficient.
<ProjectThoth>
I dunno. I've been investigating this problem for the last week or so in my free time, and it's spiraled into 36+ different configurations for reentry and landing of stages.
<soundnfury>
I feel like you can't really figure that stuff out just on general principles.
<ProjectThoth>
As a first round, clean sheet approach to the problem.
<soundnfury>
Instead you need to start with an explicit set of requirements, then do at least somewhat detailed design studies into each configuration, and compare the results
<ProjectThoth>
I probably painted my requirements a bit too broad when getting into this thing.
<ProjectThoth>
I just wanted to see if there was room for potential optimization outside of what people are currently considering.
<ProjectThoth>
It's basically come down to VRVL, HRHL, HRVL, and not much else.
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<Rokker>
launch hype my dudes and (if there are any here) dudettes
<soundnfury>
whatlaunch *searches* HTV?
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<soundnfury>
it makes me sad that they separate the SRBs in pairs, means they don't get a Korolëv cross :(
<soundnfury>
OTOH, liking the music. makes a change from test shot starfish making spacey noises
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<ProjectThoth>
soundnfury: I had a realization about the g-force thing I was talking about yesterday. You *can* have seats where passengers are shoved into the straps at 2-3 gs. In fact, I've been in one.
<soundnfury>
reminds me of an old techdif joke about the UK space center being not far from Alton Towers
<soundnfury>
so if we _had_ had a proper space program, the thought of someone just cresting a rollercoaster and then they see someone else going up on a Blue Streak or something and think "oh."