UmbralRaptor changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> … one of the other grad students just compared me to nomal O_o | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer.
<kmath>
<AmerChemSociety> One of the Elements Doesn’t Obey the Laws of Quantum Mechanics | Big Think on research published in @J_A_C_S https://t.co/TXM3mMBw2L
<awang>
bofh: Care to explain for the unenlightened folks here?
<awang>
Also, " since berkelium has a half-life of just 320 days after which it becomes too unstable to work with"
<awang>
I'm pretty sure that isn't how half-lives work
<bofh>
awang: it's just a standard case of Lorentz contraction. due to the large positive charge on the nucleus and how diffuse f orbitals are, the large degree of contraction of the radius of the orbital means that your average orbital velocity is large enough that your \sqrt{1 - v^2/c^2} contraction affects the electron energies enough to cause them to do things differently than expected.
* awang
is going to pretend he understood about half of that
<awang>
I think I get it, though?
<bofh>
In the case of Gold, it gives you a light transmittance band that shifts significantly into blue, thus making it look, well, gold. in Mercury, it makes the solid-liquid phase change happen a good amount of degC lower than it would be expected, making it liquid at ~290K.
<bofh>
in the case of Berkelium, it changes the filling states of the outermost f orbital from what you expect.
<bofh>
awang: heavy nucleus means certain electron shells contract and are small. small electron shells means the average velocity of an electron in them is high. sufficiently high orbital velocities means SR gives you mass dilation (thus impacting energies).
<awang>
I see
<awang>
None of this implies that quantum mechanics has been broken in some way?
<awang>
Just another piece of the puzzle that you can't ignore any more
<bofh>
Yeah, exactly. Nothing is broken, in fact once you correct the effective mass of the electrons affected, everything works as expected.
<kmath>
<andrechemist> This morning I was complaining about main group chem. I forgot about f block chemistry. #RandomBondsEverywhere https://t.co/gWSes741FH
<bofh>
SnoopJeDi: LOL
<bofh>
what the hell is cos(degrees) anyway?
<soundnfury>
bofh: looks like it was cos(1°)?
<SnoopJeDi>
yea I think it interpreted it as 1° but that's still awful
<soundnfury>
oh, it's extremely awful
<SnoopJeDi>
!wpn soundnfury
* Qboid
gives soundnfury a nefarious lanthanum bird
<SnoopJeDi>
nefarious B.R.D
<soundnfury>
ooh, heavy :)
<soundnfury>
!wpn SnoopJeDi
* Qboid
gives SnoopJeDi a RFC 2324-compliant singularity/variable hybrid
<APlayer>
Also, egg, if you're online... I am still trying to get your statement on what you think the vector r is here, http://www.aerospacengineering.net/?p=1598 at equation (5.37) :P
<kmath>
<ACLUVA> Happy #NationalComingOutDay ! Whether you've come out or are still considering it, know that we're with you. ??️?? https://t.co/HOW9FZTR9g
<egg|work|egg>
!u ??️??
<Qboid>
U+1F308 RAINBOW (?)
<Qboid>
U+1F3F3 WAVING WHITE FLAG (?)
<Qboid>
U+FE0F VARIATION SELECTOR-16 (◌️)
<Qboid>
U+200D ZERO WIDTH JOINER ()
<Qboid>
U+1F308 RAINBOW (?)
<Qboid>
U+1F984 UNICORN FACE (?)
<egg|work|egg>
APlayer: the vector going from the primary to the secondary?
<APlayer>
Egg: Me and U.mbralRaptor were thinking about this, but I see the issue that by changing the position, I believe the departure angle would change as well
<APlayer>
Does the maths somehow work out this way anyway?
<egg|work|egg>
why is that a problem
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<bofh>
UmbralRaptor: wtf, why is there a monad (human protein)
* UmbralRaptor
has no idea
<bofh>
"Monad, a WD40 repeat protein, promotes apoptosis induced by TNF-alpha."
<bofh>
I'm sorry, it's far too difficult to not giggle at that title.
<APlayer>
WD40 proteins sound like something I might need from time to time
<bofh>
they sound like something the office door hinge is in need of currently >_>
<UmbralRaptor>
Please do not make your office door kill itself. Even if it would be a clean death.
<egg|work|egg>
!wpn bofh
* Qboid
gives bofh a repeating variety
<APlayer>
"Apoptosis [...] is a process of programmed cell death [...]. Biochemical events lead to characteristic cell changes [...] and death. These changes include [...] nuclear fragmentation, [...]" Thanks, Wikipedia. Note to self: Do not read articles on biology if you're thinking physics
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<Iskierka>
Question: What is avocado toast? Mushed into a spread? Slices of avocados with nothing else? With something else? Toast, made from avocados?
<BPlayer>
I'd say toast with mushed avocado
<UmbralRaptor>
Toast with avocado slices, I think?
<UmbralRaptor>
Add Australian millionaire's fever dreams for flavor.
<Iskierka>
is he only a millionaire?
<UmbralRaptor>
Not sure. Apparently he does real estate.
<Iskierka>
I'd be somewhat surprised at only a millionaire with real estate and most of the media
<kmath>
<laura_hudson> Internet: Some reaaaal bad takes out there this morning, you have what it takes to top them? Apple: hold my beer… https://t.co/eMPTWh9xiX
<kmath>
<Alex_Parker> Dwarf planet Haumea just got stranger! Egg-shaped, super-fast rotating, a huge red spot, two moons, and now a RING. https://t.co/1SV16N05Zs
<Iskierka>
vote Haumea planet 9
<SnoopJeDi>
oh wow
<SnoopJeDi>
3:1 resonance is pretty neato
* SnoopJeDi
knows next to nothing about rings except that Maxwell paper
<UmbralRaptor>
Haumea is stealing Jupiter's red spot!
<BPlayer>
Let me clear that up. A giant, super fast spinning space egg has a ring system that has apparently remained stable over astronomic time scales?
<UmbralRaptor>
BPlayer: Yep!
<BPlayer>
How can a ring system not get perturbed to the point of being a particle cloud by something as irregularly-shaped as Haumea?
<SnoopJeDi>
this technically makes #kspacademia solar system fanfic
<UmbralRaptor>
Also, the smallest body we've found a ring around is Chariklo (200 km across)
<SnoopJeDi>
the figures in the paper are...kind of a mess.
<SnoopJeDi>
which is aggravatingly common in astro :(
<SnoopJeDi>
I would hazard a guess that the spin-orbit resonance plays a big role in answering that question BPlayer
<BPlayer>
"Close to 3:1" is not resonance enough for me
<BPlayer>
"3:1" would be
<SnoopJeDi>
How do you mean?
<SnoopJeDi>
I mean, I would assume that it's progressed towards that resonance by exactly the perturbative processes you're talking about
<BPlayer>
The paper says that the radius of the ring gets it close to a 3:1 resonance with the object's revolution. "Close to" is still "not quite"
<Iskierka>
and what difference are you trying to suggest this makes?
<SnoopJeDi>
yea I don't understand the significance of drawing the distinction
<SnoopJeDi>
it's an abstraction *anyway*
<SnoopJeDi>
at any rate: "More knowledge of the ring orbit and of the internal structure of Haumea (which may be not homogeneous, see below) will be required to show whether this proximity is coincidental or the ring is actually trapped into this resonance, and if the latter, for what reason."
<bofh>
also keep in mind that it's faint and distant, for all we know the deviation from an exact 3:1 resonance is measurement error.
<BPlayer>
If there was a definitive resonance, I'd say that it is probably at least part of the explanation. The way it is worded suggest a coincidence, really
<SnoopJeDi>
I think you're reading too much into what a resonance is, personally
<Iskierka>
Not really. It's not a secondary body, so it's not going to be required to resonate precisely to stay with it
<Iskierka>
plus, they will have run models to determine if it's causative
<bofh>
Iskierka: oh, fair point.
<SnoopJeDi>
the bounds look pretty darned good
<SnoopJeDi>
(but again, I know nothing about rings)
<Iskierka>
and bofh's point is good also as it's likely like 3.05+-0.15
<BPlayer>
...but I still cannot imagine, even with resonance, what could keep the ring from floating apart in wildly different directions
<SnoopJeDi>
"we find that the 3:1 resonance occurs at r3:1 = 2,285 ± 8 km, coincident with the ring radius to within error bars."
<SnoopJeDi>
ack, sorry for the tofu
<Iskierka>
I see no tofu?
<SnoopJeDi>
!u
<Qboid>
What code point do you want me to look up?
<Iskierka>
BPlayer, the exact same thing keeping any ring system stable?
<SnoopJeDi>
I guess it's a whitespace char
<Iskierka>
copy with preceeding character?
<BPlayer>
Iskierka: Only that most ring systems do not orbit fast spinning space eggs
<UmbralRaptor>
No tofu on my phone
<SnoopJeDi>
!u = 2
<Qboid>
U+003D EQUALS SIGN (=)
<Qboid>
U+2009 THIN SPACE ( )
<Qboid>
U+0032 DIGIT TWO (2)
<Iskierka>
now unicode is fatshaming
<Iskierka>
BPlayer, and if you're arguing that the resonance is disconnected presumably its spin is also going to have no effect
<SnoopJeDi>
BPlayer, "space egg" doesn't necessarily mean "asymmetrical top"
<Iskierka>
and srsly, why would it? There's no model yet saying it's unstable
<SnoopJeDi>
unrelated: googling "asymmetrical top" yields a bunch of women's clothing and this is hilarious to me
<BPlayer>
Let's forget the resonance thing for a second
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<SnoopJeDi>
204 seconds, even
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<BPlayer>
Woops, sorry. Did I miss anything?
<SnoopJeDi>
nope
<SnoopJeDi>
We didn't get anything after "Let's forget"
<BPlayer>
Well, yes. Resonance or not, I don't think that would prevent weird gravity effects from an irregular shape
<BPlayer>
Except, maybe, if the resonance was 1:1, which it definitely is not
<SnoopJeDi>
That's a rather strong statement
<BPlayer>
(Correct me if I am wrong, because I am using my intuition here and my intuition is usually bad)
<Iskierka>
I would expect 1:1 to the throwing it way off by giving a persistent bias point to be pulled to
<Iskierka>
whereas ANY other ratio can even out
<SnoopJeDi>
Considering how screwy any phase space gets with a pathetically low number of parameters, I'm willing to believe in such a stability, particularly since...we seent it
<SnoopJeDi>
so this issue of resonances actually touches my field in a really important way
<SnoopJeDi>
a la betatron tune resonances
<SnoopJeDi>
if you complete an integer number of betatron oscillations per revolution, any dipole errors are *wildly* magnified and drive you to instability immediately (t_rev ~ O(ns-μs))
<BPlayer>
Iskierka: Well, any give particle in a stationary orbit should remain stable, should it not?
<SnoopJeDi>
so in accelerators it turns out that just-slightly-off resonances are the most stable configurations
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<BPlayer>
Wait, your work is related to particle accelerators?
<SnoopJeDi>
(2:1, 3:1 and so on resonances are also problematic but for more subtle reasons; they perturb higher-order terms, where the dipole closed-orbit perturbations are immediately obvious)
<SnoopJeDi>
well, s/obvious/intuitive
<SnoopJeDi>
BPlayer, ye
<BPlayer>
May I ask what exactly you do?
<SnoopJeDi>
I study how to make the pew-pew go vroom-vroom
<SnoopJeDi>
(I'm working on the design of a strong-focusing cyclotron)
<BPlayer>
Woah, that's awesome!
* BPlayer
only barely realizes what people he's chatting with
<SnoopJeDi>
meh. I have no reverence for the ivory tower, and you often ask good questions BPlayer
<SnoopJeDi>
but yea re: resonances, being just slightly off resonance is kinda *great* in a lot of dynamical systems
<SnoopJeDi>
the ideal configuration would be to have an irrational phase advance so that you never sync up meaningfully, but that's not possible (and even if it were other things would eat your lunch)
<BPlayer>
What about 1:Pi ? :P
<SnoopJeDi>
from the quick skim of that paper though it looks like the researchers had the same "huh" moment, and it'll be a good follow-up question
<SnoopJeDi>
BPlayer, that's what I mean :P
<SnoopJeDi>
a classic real analysis problem is to consider a frog/bunny/whatever hopping around the unit circle taking steps of size π, and to prove that it will visit every location on the circle
<BPlayer>
Hopping on circles reminds me of the golden ratio, though
<SnoopJeDi>
oh sure, transcendental numbers are a pretty h*ckin close-knit family
<SnoopJeDi>
I bet other people here know more about that than I do though
<BPlayer>
I've had "look at the maths of the golden ratio" on my list for some time now, but you know those things that you're theoretically going to do one day...
<BPlayer>
End up never doing them at all
<SnoopJeDi>
numberphile's a great way to scratch that itch
* SnoopJeDi
hugs Brady
<BPlayer>
Oh yes, they are
<BPlayer>
Also found a nice YT channel, 3blue1brown. Excellent animated and intuitive explanations of maths stuffs
<SnoopJeDi>
yea!
<SnoopJeDi>
I watched something by him recently, can't quite recall what it was, but it was nice.
<BPlayer>
Also, numberphile has a lot of related channels that seem to be maintained by the same people. They have one on chemistry, one on CS and perhaps more I forgot or never saw
<SnoopJeDi>
Yep, Periodic Videos was the genesis and it exploded, so he created many other channels, and now there's stuff like Computerphile that is adjacent
<SnoopJeDi>
a friend pointed me to the larger "essay" that came from and it does mention using accelerators as a "track" for some kind of capsule woo-nonsens
<SnoopJeDi>
oh but you'd asked about relativistic speeds
<SnoopJeDi>
most accelerators get easily to mildly-to-high relativistic speeds, yep
<Iskierka>
unfortunately, you are (probably) not a particle (for purposes of greater precision than spherical-cow-in-vacuum)
<SnoopJeDi>
our cyclotron is pretty weakly relativistic, protons start at 6.5 MeV and go to 100 MeV, so γ ~ 1.007 to 1.1067
<SnoopJeDi>
Iskierka, perhaps to the consternation of Monsieur de Broglie ;P
<kmath>
<Alex_Parker> Dear Mars, I understand your envy of the ring-bearing dwarf planets. If you would like one of your own, we can fix Phobos right up. ~Alex
<kmath>
<MicroSFF> He looked at the sword. "So, um, you're magical?" "Yup," the sword said. "Are you extra sharp, or quick, or-" "Nope. I'm just good company."
<kmath>
<djmgaffneyw4> Something I've just learned: the membership of the committee that founded the metric system. Lagrange. Laplace. Borda. Monge. Condorcet.
<kmath>
<thorsheim> The age-old golden rule of always typing in a wrong password or pin first, just to see what happens, still applies… https://t.co/Ty3vqKrLJt
<kmath>
<EricHolthaus> #Ophelia is now a hurricane, the 10th of the 2017 hurricane season. (2nd most on record for Oct 11th). May impact I… https://t.co/IeRrXBITuo
<bofh>
Ophelia may make landfall at *Ireland*.
<egg|zzz|egg>
Ꙩ_ꙩ
<bofh>
today in "very confused hurricane"
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<bofh>
UmbralRaptor: I mean I did that sometimes w/o thinking about it, but this is the first I've heard that advice too honestly.
<egg|zzz|egg>
awang: well of course I have a custom cyrillic layout, how else should I type котя or порошок or эта хуйня
<awang>
egg|zzz|egg: Copy/paste?
<egg|zzz|egg>
from where
<egg|zzz|egg>
afaict these cats don't have wikipedia pages
<kmath>
<NOAASatellites> Want to know what's next for #satellite #weather forecast modeling? Get your Q's A'd TOMORROW 1PM EDT @reddit_AMA… https://t.co/nMLZ4akGKP
<awang>
idk, IRC logs?
<awang>
bofh: Bets on how long it takes for the first conspiracy theorist to show up?
<bofh>
awang: a few hundred thousand femtoseconds, give or take
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