UmbralRaptor changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> … one of the other grad students just compared me to nomal O_o | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer.
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<soundnfury>
egg: those buildings look very Dutch. Dunno if that's just because the image is oversaturated
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<egg>
UmbralRaptor: also <egg> reunification is going well, I'm doing n-body gravitation to rovers whenever they get off the ground for a few milliseconds :D
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<UmbralRaptor>
!wa phobos-mars L1 altitude
<Qboid>
UmbralRaptor: Seems that Wolfram is unable to understand that.
<kmath>
<allgebrah> An entire seminar about making apple pies from scratch - habit-forming, apple pies tend to exist in most universes because of this seminar
* UmbralRaptor
has seen 4 job advertisements on the totally not a bird website tonight. All of them require PhDs.
<Ellied>
my brain is fuzzy as hell today and I can't really focus on learning much, but what little I've managed to grasp of Rust is awesome. It's nearly as readable (or possibly more so in some cases) as Python but seems just as capable as C++.
<FluffyFoxeh>
that sounds promising]
<whitequark>
Ellied: arguably, it's morecapable than C++, because it allows you to make stronger guarantees about your code, and has more diverse abstractions while having less design disasters
<whitequark>
readability can occasionally suffer. some types of code are much better on this than others
<whitequark>
casual systems code is a-ok, ffi-heavy code is pretty bad, complex zero-cost abstractions and/or clever use of types tends to hide a lot of implicit context and produce errors that put STL to shame
<Ellied>
ffi?
<whitequark>
foreign function interface
<whitequark>
basically interfacing with c code
<Ellied>
ah
<whitequark>
i'm not sure i would do quick-and-dirty webdev prototypes in rust
<whitequark>
like i appreciate it for not doing shit implicitly, and that's precisely why i don't want to do quick-and-dirty webdev prototypes in it
<Ellied>
heh
<Ellied>
I mean my present position is more or less that I would not like to do webdev anything at all if I can possibly avoid it but that keeps not being possible
<SnoopJeDi>
Ellied, no interest in backend at all?
<Ellied>
I mean yeah, I must grudgingly admit that I have interest in it
<Ellied>
both backend and frontend
<Ellied>
but web programming and plumbing tends to make me go a little crazy sometimes
<Ellied>
UmbralRaptor: three... billion??
<Ellied>
isn't that like, all of the accounts anyone ever made with them?
<SnoopJeDi>
that's fair, web is a special brew of insanity
<Ellied>
oh, yes it is, I just got to actually reading the article
<Ellied>
whitequark: possibly a bit of a reach, but is Rust a viable language to work with small microcontrollers (e.g. STM32 or maybe even AVR/PIC) in?
<whitequark>
absolutely
<whitequark>
i actually program STM32s in Rust
<whitequark>
and we have a TM4C129x one at $job
<whitequark>
in fact smoltcp runs on that one.
<whitequark>
there's an AVR backend.
<whitequark>
I think using AVRs in this day and age is stupid, but if you *want*, ok, sure
<Ellied>
oh, that's great to hear
<whitequark>
PICs, thank gods no
<whitequark>
the faster that dies, the better
<Ellied>
oh, why that about AVR?
<Ellied>
only reason I even mention PIC is that we still have some lying around in old kits that one of the profs in my department still uses
<whitequark>
AVRs are more expensive *and* less capable than small Cortex-Ms
<whitequark>
their only real benefit is the arch and the chips are unusually compact and easy to teach
<whitequark>
STM32 has grown-up reset and clocking, but that also means that getting your first LED blinker can take days
<Ellied>
days of writing Rust? or do you mean assembly
<FluffyFoxeh>
backend is nice, front end can die
<Ellied>
http://blog.japaric.io/quickstart/ I found this, it talks about downloading an SVD from ST and converting it to a Rust crate that ostensibly handles most of the dirty work of operating the microcontroller
<whitequark>
Ellied: I mean figuring out the SoC
<Ellied>
ah
<whitequark>
like it's not at all obvious that you need to enable clock to the GPIO regs if you only worked with AVR before
<whitequark>
japaric's guides are The thing to use
<Ellied>
oh good
<whitequark>
his work is exemplary and cutting edge in, like, the entire embedded dev space
<whitequark>
he collaborates with some really cool academic
<Ellied>
I recall you mentioned something like that before. My limited experience with trying to work with STM32 does include something about a very complicated clock configurator.
<whitequark>
and because cortex-m's interrupt controller happens to be really useful for RTOSes, the ideas of that academic can be implemented very elegantly and in constant itme
<whitequark>
so you have basically safe but unchecked peripheral access
<whitequark>
and without things like priority inversion
<whitequark>
STM32's RCC is hell for a novice
<whitequark>
it's very simple by standards of like, cortex-a
<whitequark>
but if you're just entering the field, welp
<Ellied>
so uh, I see a thing about waiting for an 'update event' using an empty while loop in this example code. Is that event the edge of the clock involved with the GPIO?
<Ellied>
hm, the code above it might make more sense having seen that
<whitequark>
no
<whitequark>
that uses a timer, not gpio
<whitequark>
tim7
<whitequark>
"update event" basically means "timer has fired"
<whitequark>
it's called "update event" because lol engineers
<Ellied>
what's APB1? I `let ratio = frequency::APB1 / FREQUENCY;`
<whitequark>
APB1 is the frequency of one of the three peripheral buses inside the SoC
<whitequark>
like I mentioned, its clocking is complex
<whitequark>
some peripherals work only with certain clock rates
<Ellied>
gotcha, that's what I thought it was
<Ellied>
certain clock rates just because of bandwidth limitations, or something else?
<whitequark>
no
<whitequark>
e.g. APB1 is not routed to work faster than, like, 20 MHz or something
<whitequark>
oh
<whitequark>
well, yes
<whitequark>
but also for example not all UART baud rates would be accessible with higher clocks
<Ellied>
I see, I think
<Ellied>
I think my question might be better asked as "is it just an upper limit, or is there a specific set of acceptable values where frequencies in between that would otherwise be viable (e.g. possible with the configuration of dividers/PLLs/whatever) that are not allowed?"
<whitequark>
"it depends"
<whitequark>
the physical limit is just the upper one
<whitequark>
but if you need to generate a particular frequency in a peripheral then only certain bus frequencies work
<kmath>
<sharkalanche> i definitely channeled @arkadycosplay for today's #inktober drawing by drawing a space cat https://t.co/rb7NjhQZPo
<rqou>
whitequark: i thought STM32's RCC was quite straightforward to explain. is this another case of "i need to recalibrate my idea of what a novice knows?"
<kmath>
<sondy> Got bored and made a plot of eccentricity versus semi-major axis of main belt asteroids with resonances labeled. https://t.co/Zy9sK97h0z
<kmath>
<sondy> @MinorPlanetCtr And for fun, let's zoom in on the 3:1 mean motion resonance at 2.5 au to see how the depletion reso… https://t.co/eMhKVq3sYx
<kmath>
<AuerSusan> Everyone talks about Sputnik, but let's not forget about #Luna3, the first probe to photograph the far side of the… https://t.co/6awttHrEXa
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<UmbralRaptor>
From the company that brought you .ds_store
<SnoopJeDi>
In the process of discussing that with a friend, I discovered the `backupdir, directory` options, which allow you to control where backups and swp files go, respectively!
<Iskierka>
... what's the connection between "directory" and swap?
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<kmath>
<house_house_> It's a lovely morning in the village and you are a horrible goose. A new game by us, coming 2018. Full video at… https://t.co/19M2blZsQm
<APlayer>
Wut
<Qboid>
APlayer: soundnfury left a message for you in #RO [04.10.2017 16:17:59]: "hmm, you're on an older version than I realised, then, the top-of-tree is different. Sorry for the confusion"
<APlayer>
egg: I just had a look at my map view... What the hell is that?! https://imgur.com/a/X8IRs
<egg|zzz|egg>
APlayer: but we should cover a lot of what that does, excluding aerodynamics unfortunately
<APlayer>
I believe aerodynamics is the only thing it does, though :P
<APlayer>
Well, no, impact prediction too
<APlayer>
But it'd be /so/ cool to have principia cooperate with trajectories and have the ultimative flyby, aerobrake/-capture and landing trajectory prediction
<egg|zzz|egg>
yeah but that doesn't really make sense; trajectories does its own integration independently, with a single massive body
<egg|zzz|egg>
what would be nice eventually would be for us to have aerodynamics and impact prediction, but that's a long way down the road
<APlayer>
I believe Principia's calculation may be neglected for atmospheric portions of the flight
<APlayer>
n-th body gravity influences are by far not dominant there
<egg|zzz|egg>
yes but like gluing entirely different bits of code together is just more work than doing it ourselves
<Iskierka>
I think that would be more a trajectories thing to catch principia's prediction and overlay its trajectory. Since it doesn't exactly cut off the stock trajectory normally anyway
<egg|zzz|egg>
our stuff is very tightly entangled with our integrators, our rendering code, etc.
<egg|zzz|egg>
also our reference frames
<APlayer>
If you think so... (I have no idea of Principia's and Trajectories' inner workings, so)
<Iskierka>
then just throw back to principia "hey I hop back into orbit here plz plot orbit"
<egg|zzz|egg>
Iskierka: except principia even does its own rendering, we're just drawing in 2d (downsampling based on the projection)
<APlayer>
Would there be some sort of orbital decay simulation if you plan to add atmospheric effects?
<egg|zzz|egg>
yes, that's in the far future plans too
<Iskierka>
trajectories modifying would not have to abuse principia to get the desired behaviour; it can just hop in the same way it hops in stock. Principia would not, it'd have to aggressively disagree with what trajectories expects to persuade it to render correctly
<APlayer>
Woah, man
<egg|zzz|egg>
emphasis on "far" though
<egg|zzz|egg>
(or is it FAR future? cc ferram4)
<APlayer>
Still sounds like you reduce stock KSP to a mere graphics engine :P
<egg|zzz|egg>
:D
<Iskierka>
and collision physics
<Iskierka>
those are annoying
<APlayer>
Something's perturbing my orbit by kilometers every revolution... (I mean, something can't by anything by the moon, but how?) There seems to be some ascending node movement, I think
<egg|zzz|egg>
Iskierka: also aerodynamics are mostly handled by FAR, we'd be doing only really specific stuff even if doing decay
<APlayer>
You'd need to account for vessel orientation (main problem I see), if you go realistic then atmospheric temperature and weather effects, probably tons of stuff and effects I am not even aware of
<egg|zzz|egg>
so to be clear, I am *not* doing aerodynamics in FAR's generality
<Iskierka>
There isn't significant weather that high
<APlayer>
Trajectories does it by querying KSP's API, IIRC
<egg|zzz|egg>
I might do things that make sense for high velocity & low density for decay, but I'm just not doing general aerodynamics
<Iskierka>
the full extent of it is variations in solar exposure changing the scale height and pushing the atmosphere up or down
<Iskierka>
You could probably just query FAR for "What's the force on this if there were an atmo?" then hold that until orientation changes enough to matter
<APlayer>
Iskierka: Isn't it really hard to predict, though?
<Iskierka>
weather in total is hard to predict
<egg|zzz|egg>
Iskierka: querying FAR isn't really feasible from the depths of our C++ integrators
* APlayer
gives egg APIs
<Iskierka>
so put an interface in the dll for them to do so?
<APlayer>
Oh god. My favourite programming forum's IRC channel is being raided by some apparently 10-year old person demanding Android phone emulators for programmable calculators and dozens of other incompatible switches between low-speed processor platforms and high-speed computers
<APlayer>
Mainly for people to port games from the computer to their calculator and vice versa
<SnoopJeDi>
as in, emulating an Android phone, or emulating something like a TI-83 on an Android phone
<SnoopJeDi>
because the latter is definitely a thing
<APlayer>
As in emulating an Adnroid phone on a TI-83
<SnoopJeDi>
dafuq
<APlayer>
The latter is a thing and they seem to fail to recognize that too
<SnoopJeDi>
good ol' Turing tarpit
<APlayer>
In particular they wanted .exe ports of calculator games and when pointed at calculator emulators they said they don't like the controls
<egg|zzz|egg>
Iskierka: so the way this works is that the game (including C# dlls from mods) call things from principia's dll, it doesn't really work backward
<Iskierka>
>didn't like controls >of calculator game
<Iskierka>
how did they think it's controlled to begin with?
<UmbralRaptor>
Good question.
<APlayer>
Anyway, they are getting dangerously close to being banned. It's kind of fun once the initial shock is gone
<APlayer>
That sort of thing you may want to grab a snack to watch :P
<egg|zzz|egg>
Iskierka: looks much like ksp's rover wheels; clearly the driver just needs to get out and magically fix the wheels
<bofh>
Ellied: SMD in a nixie tube clock kit is somewhat hilarious IMO.
<bofh>
APlayer: LOL this person sounds like a laugh riot.
<bofh>
also I'm fairly sure you could run calculator emulators via bootstrapping a qemu instance on Android and then booting Windows 7 in the qemu instance
<APlayer>
bofh: This person sounds either like a 10 year old or like a troll who can change apparent ages really well
<awang>
bofh: Got any more layers you can throw in there? :P
<bofh>
like assuming the Android phone has a fairly modern AArch64 CPU, the performance of a Win7 qemu-x86_64-system VM would be ~comparable to running it on a 6MHz Z80, so it all works out
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<bofh>
awang: I once ran a UNIVAC 494 emulator in a UNIVAC 1100/81 emulator in SIMH (emulating a VAXStation) on a Haswell x86_64.
<bofh>
that was... interesting... to get to work.
<SnoopJeDi>
I wouldn't mind emulating a System/360 sometime to get a feel for a machine my dad worked on
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<e_14159>
Emulating an Android phone on an emulated infinite-stone field emulated on a Ti83?
<SnoopJeDi>
!wpn -add:adj simulated
<Qboid>
SnoopJeDi: Adjective added!
<SnoopJeDi>
!wpn -add:adj emulated
<Qboid>
SnoopJeDi: Adjective added!
<awang>
bofh: ....Why would you do that
* UmbralRaptor
realizes that he last saw Toy Story 2 in 1999. o_O
<SnoopJeDi>
I don't think I saw it at all until c.a. 2012?
<egg|cell|egg>
！wpn UmbralRaptor
<UmbralRaptor>
!wpn egg|cell|egg
* Qboid
gives egg|cell|egg a sodium heisenbug/ellipsoid hybrid
<UmbralRaptor>
!wpn egg|nature|egg
* Qboid
gives egg|nature|egg a Bernoulli scale
<UmbralRaptor>
!wpn egg|science|egg
* Qboid
gives egg|science|egg a moral cardinal
<awang>
Is that cardinal a bird or a person?
<UmbralRaptor>
Ask Qboid.
<UmbralRaptor>
More likely it's a measure of the number of elements in the set of morals because egg.
<awang>
I thought about that, but I thought that that particular meaning for "cardinal" wasn't a noun
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<bofh>
literally exactly what UmbralRaptor just said.
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<Ellied>
bofh: I mean yeah it is but the HV shift registers (which I think aren't used for much else) come in either SOIC or QFN, both giant and ceramic
<Ellied>
they probably come in DIP too ofc but I haven't seen any
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<Ellied>
This kit also has blue SMD LED underlighting for the tubes themselves, which is the most absurd thing I've ever seen
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<Qboid>
5d 0h 0m 0s left to event #11: 「みちびき4号機」／H-IIAロケット35号機 [at 2017-10-09 22:00:00]. Say '!kountdown 11' for details
<FluffyFoxeh>
is anyone here supposed to be able to read that event name
<Qboid>
FluffyFoxeh: Description: An H-IIA rocket will launch the DS-2000-based みちびき4号機 navigation spacecraft (http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/qzs-2.htm) from 種子島宇宙センター into an eccentric geosynchronous orbit with an inclination of 41°.
<FluffyFoxeh>
a bit better
* UmbralRaptor
is partially to blame for multilingual silliness, though egg|zzz|egg added that one.
* egg|zzz|egg
works in i18n and gladly takes the blame for multilingual silliness :-p
<egg|zzz|egg>
!u ／
<Qboid>
U+FF0F FULLWIDTH SOLIDUS (／)
<egg|zzz|egg>
:D
<UmbralRaptor>
egg|zzz|egg: Have you headhunted hattivat, then? >_>
* UmbralRaptor
applies an annihilation operator to QM homework.
<Iskierka>
apply antihomework to homework
<UmbralRaptor>
Because QM is QM, it has raising/creation and lowering/annihilation operators.
<UmbralRaptor>
"simple" harmonic oscillators.
<Iskierka>
on a random note, now that it's the month of halloween, how long until we all do witch nicknames again and annoy everyone in official?
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<UmbralRaptor>
Oh, right.
* egg|zzz|egg
applies the creation operator to UmbralRaptor
<UmbralRaptor>
I should do that if I get the chance to work on the witching^Wkozai mechanism.
* UmbralRaptor
oscillates at +ħ/2 higher frequency.
<UmbralRaptor>
Also because QM, a† is creation and a is annihilation.
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<soundnfury>
UmbralRaptor: so when you stab things, you're actually creating them…
<egg|cell|egg>
UmbralRaptor stabs the world into eggsistence
<UmbralRaptor>
>_>
<soundnfury>
was this really the best world you could stab?
<soundnfury>
I suppose at least it _does_ contain apple pie...
<UmbralRaptor>
A sufficient number of stabs takes time.
<soundnfury>
A stab in time saves nine.
<soundnfury>
Don't have a thousand roubles, but have a thousand stabs.
<soundnfury>
All work and no stab makes Jack a dull boy.
<soundnfury>
Many hands make stab work.
<soundnfury>
(but, too many cooks stab the broth)
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<soundnfury>
No man can stab two masters.
<soundnfury>
One good stab deserves another.
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<soundnfury>
A penny stabbed is a penny earned.
<soundnfury>
No man stabs an island.
* soundnfury
is disappointed that no-one joined in his proverbial stabfest