UmbralRaptor changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> … one of the other grad students just compared me to nomal O_o | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer.
<hattivat>
I still can't get over the idea the in the US you can apprently walk into a bank with a revolver in your pocket, and when a cashier ask you for your ID, give him a piece of paper effectively saying that you have that revolver in your pocket, and the end result is not them alerting the security or calling the cops on you, but rather the normal 'hello mr Johnson, how may I help you today?'
<hattivat>
like, I thought I have heard all the bizarre trivia about US peculiarities, but apparently not yet
<hattivat>
s/the in/that in
<Qboid>
hattivat meant to say: I still can't get over the idea that in the US you can apprently walk into a bank with a revolver in your pocket, and when a cashier ask you for your ID, give him a piece of paper effectively saying that you have that revolver in your pocket, and the end result is not them alerting the security or calling the cops on you, but rather the normal 'hello mr Johnson, how may I
<Qboid>
help you today?'
<UmbralRaptor>
That sounds very 1920s.
<hattivat>
it does, but if whitequark can be trusted, it is at least theoretically normal
<hattivat>
or was that deadpan humor on his part? sometimes it's hard to tell with anglosaxon laws
<bofh>
hattivat: nearest I can tell, in at least certain states that is a thing that is entirely possible.
<hattivat>
amazing, just amazing
<hattivat>
not in a good way though
<hattivat>
I mean, I can sort of understand the whole "freedom to arm bears" thing, maybe even the idea of people carrying guns around in urban areas (though that's already bordering on insane to me), but to use a gun permit as an ID in a completely unrelated interaction is just mind-blowing
<hattivat>
I mean, doesn't it count as intimidation?
<hattivat>
a ticket collector catches you riding without a ticket, asks for an ID and gets a concealed carry permit in return - how is that not illegal initimidation?
<Iskierka>
because arm bears
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn -add:wpn bear
<Qboid>
egg|zzz|egg: Weapon already added!
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn hattivat
* Qboid
gives hattivat a stretchy uranium sextant-like bear
<egg|zzz|egg>
wow
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn -stats
<Qboid>
egg|zzz|egg: Total weapons: 681. Total adjectives: 877. Total possible combinations: 1428919385031.
<kmath>
<ThePatanoiac> The flight attendant places a hand on your shoulder. "I promise you, this plane is even more afraid of heights than you are of flying."
<kmath>
<matthew_d_green> WiFi would be a lot more secure if security researchers didn’t have to pay for the damn protocol documents.
<Fiora>
bofh: are YOU excited about ligo
<bofh>
Fiora: so I know one of the refs for the paper and so knew the result for the past week. But tbh that's actually made me more excited as a result.
<Fiora>
apparently it leaked back in august or something oops
<bofh>
yep.
<Fiora>
also did someone literally just take down the page i linked
<Fiora>
damn them
<Fiora>
oh good it's cached
<bofh>
it happens, the same was true of the original GW detection too. is hard keeping embargoes active w/that many people in the know.
<bofh>
heh.
<FluffyFoxeh>
I thought IEEE standards were freely available
<Fiora>
no way
<bofh>
ROFL
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<Fiora>
ITU aren't either
<Fiora>
nor are IEEE papers
<bofh>
Nor (most) ISO specs, for that matter.
<bofh>
*glares at ISO14496/3:2009*
<FluffyFoxeh>
well all these "standards" organizations sort of sick then, don't they
<FluffyFoxeh>
suck*
<soundnfury>
FluffyFoxeh: hence why engineers *lurve* the IETF
<soundnfury>
if it's not in an RFC, it's not worth implementing :)
<UmbralRaptor>
So, are standards on sci-hub?
<Fiora>
if not they should be
* UmbralRaptor
agrees.
<soundnfury>
UmbralRaptor: well, I know the _de facto_ C standards are the final working-group drafts promulgated before the official standards were ratified
<soundnfury>
because everyone has access to the former, so the latter are irrelevant
<FluffyFoxeh>
limiting access to a standard is really doing it a disservice
<bofh>
YEP.
<soundnfury>
yes, but every bureaucratic organisation behaves as though controlled by a secret cabal of its enemies ;)
<UmbralRaptor>
All hail the Arχiv.
<soundnfury>
is it ok if I hail the snarχiv? I understand more of that
<UmbralRaptor>
Only if you can get Markov's ghost to stop rattling those chains.
<FluffyFoxeh>
I haven't actually checked how much it costs to buy a copy of, say, the official C99 spec
<soundnfury>
Sorry, I've only got Pepper's ghost.
<FluffyFoxeh>
that is to say the final version
<FluffyFoxeh>
what's the order of magnitude? Tens? Hundreds? Thousands? "Call for pricing"?
<soundnfury>
hundreds I think
<soundnfury>
vague feeling it's about £150 but idk
<Iskierka>
it's probably pdf scanned somewhere on the web for free
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn Iskierka
* Qboid
gives Iskierka an invariant unremarkable demon
<egg|work|egg>
UmbralRaptor: bofh: huh, 12**2 is also "une grosse" in french (but in french that word does not mean gross, it's simply the word for big/fat in the feminine)
<egg|work|egg>
!wpn whitequark
* Qboid
gives whitequark a platypus
<egg|work|egg>
!wpn bofh
* Qboid
gives bofh a pulsed bundle which vaguely resembles a glider
<egg|work|egg>
!wpn UmbralRaptor
* Qboid
gives UmbralRaptor a superheterodyne zone/monopole hybrid
<egg|work|egg>
!wpn Iskierka
* Qboid
gives Iskierka a Jeans coffee/ellipse hybrid
<kmath>
<Paleojim> Throat armor preserved on a few specimens of Stegosaurs. https://t.co/4A8aMk5c69
<egg|work|egg>
!kd -add 무궁화 5A호/Falcon 9 v1.2|A Falcon 9 v1.2 will launch 무궁화 5A호 (http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/koreasat-5a.htm) from Kennedy Space Center LC-39A into GEO for 케이티샛.|2017-10-30T19:34Z
<Qboid>
egg|work|egg: Added event #12
<egg|work|egg>
!kd -edit:12 description A Falcon 9 v1.2 will launch the Spacebus-4000B2-based 무궁화 5A호 (http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/koreasat-5a.htm) from Kennedy Space Center LC-39A into GEO for 케이티샛.
<Qboid>
egg|work|egg: Updated event #12: 무궁화 5A호/Falcon 9 v1.2 - A Falcon 9 v1.2 will launch the Spacebus-4000B2-based 무궁화 5A호 (http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/koreasat-5a.htm) from Kennedy Space Center LC-39A into GEO for 케이티샛. - 2017-10-30 19:34:00
<egg|work|egg>
!kd -add JPSS 1/Delta II 7920-10C|A Delta II 7920-10C will launch the BCP-2000-based JPSS 1 (http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/npp.htm) from Vandenberg SLC-2W into an orbit with apsis altitudes of 817 km and 823 km and an inclination of 98.71°|2017-11-10T09:47:03Z
<Qboid>
egg|work|egg: Added event #14
<BPlayer>
Why does an inclination > 90° make sense?
<BPlayer>
Especially if it is not 180° or something (I could see that being more stable or something) but just a tad bigger than 90°, i.e. 99° in this case?
<egg|work|egg>
!wpn UmbralRaptor
* Qboid
gives UmbralRaptor a poisonous decorator
<BPlayer>
Ah, no, I understand it is retrograde. I mean why is it useful?
<egg|work|egg>
UmbralRaptor: is this a heliosynch orbit? any idea about BPlayer's question otherwise?
* egg|work|egg
pokes UmbralRaptor in the feathers
<UmbralRaptor>
ow
<BPlayer>
Are you even declawed? :P
<UmbralRaptor>
egg|work|egg, BPlayer yes. Those 98˚ orbits are sun synchronous.
<UmbralRaptor>
Something about precession induced via Earth's oblateness.
<BPlayer>
Ah, yes
<BPlayer>
Wikipedia confirms
<UmbralRaptor>
BPlayer: Of course not. Do you rip out the final joint or 2 of your cats' fingers? D:
<BPlayer>
UmbralRaptor: Well, you're not a cat, so...
<BPlayer>
egg: Does Principia have some sort of earth oblateness simulation?
<egg|work|egg>
yes, that's the "extended body" part of the thread title
<UmbralRaptor>
BPlayer: Yes!
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<BPlayer>
Ohh, so Sun synchronous orbits are a thing in KSP too? :D
<UmbralRaptor>
egg|work|egg: how go the lunar masscons?
<Iskierka>
only with principia
* egg|work|egg
hides under a crater
<BPlayer>
Plot twist: The crater appeared /after/ egg hid under it
hattivat is now known as hattivat|work
<UmbralRaptor>
Note that Kerbin does not have an equatorial bulge.
<egg|work|egg>
!kd -edit:14 description A Delta II 7920-10C will launch the BCP-2000-based JPSS 1 (http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/npp.htm) from Vandenberg SLC-2W into a heliosynchronous orbit
<Qboid>
egg|work|egg: Updated event #14: JPSS 1/Delta II 7920-10C - A Delta II 7920-10C will launch the BCP-2000-based JPSS 1 (http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/npp.htm) from Vandenberg SLC-2W into a heliosynchronous orbit - 2017-11-10 09:47:03
<BPlayer>
How does the oblateness cause a precession, though?
<BPlayer>
I can see how it would tend to reduce the inclination to zero, as the bulge is tugging downwards at the parts of the orbit that "stand out" from a fully vertical plane, but what causes a precession?
<UmbralRaptor>
Cross products?
* UmbralRaptor
pokes angular momentum with a stock.
<kmath>
<astronomolly> If San Francisco thinks wildfires are bad, wait til it gets a neutron star ? https://t.co/Ralu3bqaCF
<egg|work|egg>
!wpn bofh
* Qboid
gives bofh a singular rocket/eidolon hybrid
<egg|work|egg>
bofh: Fiora: UmbralRaptor: um, is the announcement about a neutron star merging with san francisco O_o
<BPlayer>
Ellied: Your circuit, according to a simulation, shuts down the RPi within 0.75 sec after UART TXD goes low. And the capacitor size does not seem to make a difference, or at least no big difference except the time it takes to charge
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<UmbralRaptor>
egg|work|egg: It had to relocate.
<Ellied>
BPlayer: what capacitor/discharge resistor combo are you using?
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<BPlayer>
20 uF / 1 MOhm
<BPlayer>
Also npteworthy, UART TXD voltage is 3.3 V while battery voltage is 5 V (I may have said UART TXD was 5 V)
<kmath>
<DanHoak> Here's the alert that LIGO-Virgo sent to astronomers to let them know we had detected a neutron star collision:… https://t.co/fxRhwrTi2M
<kmath>
<DanHoak> Here's the alert that LIGO-Virgo sent to astronomers to let them know we had detected a neutron star collision:… https://t.co/fxRhwrTi2M
<kmath>
<0xabad1dea> hell is C with the comments written in Shift-JIS
<egg|afk|egg>
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
<NomalRaptor>
egg|afk|egg: How do we know Helios isn't John Regehr? They both have the same cat.
<rqou>
!wpn egg|afk|egg
* Qboid
gives egg|afk|egg an oxidized king
<rqou>
egg|afk|egg: will you be available in an hour or so so i can bug you about rotations?
<bofh>
I love it when I try to, say, split on ','s in C code w/sjis comments & it turns DBCS sequences into a , & bullshit.
<rqou>
egg|afk|egg: essentially i can explain all the hieroglyphics in the slides i showed you and then you can get stabbity and explain to me what's "really" happening
<egg|afk|egg>
rqou: not sure, tired also nomz soon
<egg|afk|egg>
try bofh maybe
egg|afk|egg is now known as egg|nomz|egg
<rqou>
also, in this day and age i basically pretend legacy DBCS encodings don't exist
<APlayer>
Ellied++ tried a MOSFET with threshold voltage of 1 V and reduced the capacitor to 5 uF. Resulting shutdown delay is 5.5 sec which is just enough with safety margin :D
<APlayer>
Thanks a lot!
<APlayer>
Also,the circuit has another property, which depends on the charge speed of the capacitor. If you do not turn on the UART pin within some time after turning on the battery, it cuts power by itself. Anyway, that time is accounted for with a large margin too.
<APlayer>
So, it's just perfect! :D
<bofh>
190km/h gusts reported in Cork County, Ireland.
<rqou>
yeah, I didn't even know Ireland could get hurricanes
<APlayer>
As for getting the parts, I have four options. #1 is to look for something suitable I may already have at home. It is most likely to fail, though, as I doubt I have any MOSFETs (didn't even know this was a thing before you told me). #2 is asking at school. Can't estimate how likely that is to work. #3 is my father asking at his work. I believe that's what will eventually happen and work. #4 is the last backup
<APlayer>
but will certainly work, to get those parts from the internet
<APlayer>
Also, damn you Qboid for linking unnecessary stuff
<bofh>
if you don't need power MOSFETs (i.e. your currents are < ~250mA), 2N7000s are ubiquitous.
<APlayer>
Anyway, what I wanted to say, your offer to ship the parts is very generous, but I think I may obtain them myself without much trouble. Thanks a lot anyway!
<APlayer>
bofh: I am looking for an N-channel one with threshold voltage of 1 V, drain/gate current of probably less than 1 mA, but let's say 10 just to be sure.
<bofh>
that's a low V_{th} there, most are at least 1.2V or so IME.
<APlayer>
The P-channel one will be with a threshold of around 3V and drain/gate current on the order of 100 mA with a large safety margin included in that
<APlayer>
Ellied: Also, interesting behaviour. The P-ch MOSFET does cut the power, but about 50 mV remain there. Not sure if that will trick the Powerbank
<bofh>
50mV is too low to do much of anything in most cases.
<APlayer>
Will increasing the 100 kOhm resistor's power help here?
<APlayer>
bofh: Yes, but I need to trick my Powerbank into thinking I detached a phone from it
<APlayer>
The current is 50 nA... I guess I can ignore that
<APlayer>
Nope. Doubled resistance and no effect whatsoever
<bofh>
APlayer: I'd be very surprised if the powerbank is sensing a current of 50nA as a phone still attached.
<APlayer>
bofh: I am rather concerned about 50mV still remaining there for... some reason
<APlayer>
50 nA are probably negligible indeed
<bofh>
that's essentially nothing. it's probably just residual subthreshold w/e.
<APlayer>
However I just put a resistor of 1 MOhm there in place of my RPi, so whether the actual current will be 50 nA or not remains a question too
<APlayer>
Well, maybe...
<APlayer>
So increasing the MOSFET threshold may help?
<APlayer>
(I am paranoid, yes. It's the first time I am doing a thing and it'd be a shame if it would not work)
<bofh>
I actually have no idea. This is such a low voltage potential that I couldn't say anything conclusive w/o first looking at the full circuit.
<APlayer>
Also, it involves a rather complex 3D print which is my first 3D model I ever made, so probably that's what will fail. But I can't do anything beyond double checking, so yeah
<APlayer>
Operation: Open battery and UART supplies before starting, close UART supply to trigger shutdown within 6 seconds
<APlayer>
Open as in let current flow, close as in prevent current from flowing
<Iskierka>
hm. it appears rpis running raspbian are actually secure against krack (at least in that they run 2.3 when the vulnerabilities are only identified in 2.4 and 2.6)
<Iskierka>
so the internet of things is not a *total* disaster right now
* NomalRaptor
read those as Linux kernel versions.
<Iskierka>
but I do like how the first reaction was "linux may be worst affected" yet it was the first to patch everything. microsoft and apple still not responded, nor most other vendors
<kmath>
<whitequark> in unrelated news why does youtube suggest flat earther conspiracy websites if i watch chemical safety board videos https://t.co/nZU3ir2HVb
<kmath>
YouTube - Colliding Neutron Stars Observed by Gravitational Waves and Gamma Rays
<egg|nomz|egg>
NomalRaptor: why this specific set of languages
<NomalRaptor>
?
<egg|nomz|egg>
NomalRaptor: in that ligolink
<NomalRaptor>
Something about the collaborators?
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<egg|nomz|egg>
NomalRaptor: TIL cat is written milk jug - reed - quail chick (???)
<egg|nomz|egg>
(well there's also a determinative which is cat)
<NomalRaptor>
o_O
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<egg|nomz|egg>
NomalRaptor: yes somehow to write cat you don't just draw a kitty, you also draw a milk jug, a reed, and a quail chick; but grammatically you should probably draw a kitty after your milk jug, reed, and quail chick
<NomalRaptor>
This is a phonetic thing, right?
<egg|nomz|egg>
NomalRaptor: so yes, except the kitty which is a determinative
<egg|nomz|egg>
NomalRaptor: I mean it's not too far off from the composition of the cjk ideograph 貓, you have a phonetic bit (which ultimately comes from pictograms for grass and a field) and a semantic bit
<egg|nomz|egg>
except that with hieroglyphs it's all cute little drawings
<bofh>
"The Lucifer heatwave saw temperatures fail to drop below 30C for three days and nights in the hottest spots, and was linked to a 15% surge in emergency hospital admissions in Italy." today in "2017 weather"
<rqou>
hey, anybody available for some math/rotation help right now pretty please? (bofh? egg|zzz|egg?)
<NomalRaptor>
bofh: Installing Java lets you run TOPCAT!
<rqou>
why does "academia" keep writing software in java?
<hattivat>
egg|zzz|egg: err, no, nobody really does to my knowledge, the corpus isn't big enough to allow for it
<NomalRaptor>
rqou: It seemed like a good idea at the time?
<egg|zzz|egg>
rqou: staring at the sky right now
<UmbralRaptor>
If anything , snake languages are more popular now?
<rqou>
egg|zzz|egg: does that mean you can help? i can make you stabbity :P
<UmbralRaptor>
egg|zzz|egg: M31/32/110?
<egg|zzz|egg>
there's not much tbh so I'll probably be back soon but the star field is pretty
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: nah, just looking out the window (south)
<UmbralRaptor>
rqou: I'm (by the standards of this channel) bad at math.
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: nothing but stars at the moment, but still stars are cute
<rqou>
wait, you can see stars at night? must be nice :P
<rqou>
(too much light pollution here)
<egg|zzz|egg>
with a telescope though
<rqou>
ah, that probably helps
<egg|zzz|egg>
(weird big finder)
<rqou>
anyways, egg|zzz|egg want to get very stabbity at shitty math notation?
<hattivat>
egg|zzz|egg: an English-Tocharian B dictionary states that cat in Tocharian B is mārjāre
<rqou>
wat
<rqou>
so complicated
<hattivat>
I don't think unicode has central asian version of Brahmi in it though, you'll have to glue a few of these wikipics together to see what it would look like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharian_alphabet
<rqou>
so first let me explain the setup/diagram on slide "3/95"
<rqou>
so there's a fixed frame A labeled as "Z_A"
<rqou>
the x-axis is the horizontal arrow, the y-axis is the into-the-page/diagonal arrow, and the z-axis is the vertical arrow
<rqou>
there is a cylinder that rotates, and it is located at a distance l1 along the x-axis
<rqou>
this cylinder rotates about the z-axis
<rqou>
attached to this rotating cylinder is an arm/bar/whatever of length l2 that is also rotating
<rqou>
and at the end of this arm/bar/whatever is a sphere that is also rotating
<rqou>
at the center of this sphere we define a frame B
<rqou>
this frame rotates when the whole cylinder apparatus rotates
<rqou>
there is also a point q at the center of the sphere (the origin of frame B)
<egg|zzz|egg>
so in frame B q does not move
<rqou>
correct
<egg|zzz|egg>
therefore its velocity is 0, for that is what velocity means :-p
<rqou>
so skipping forward for now up to slide 7/95
<egg|zzz|egg>
and the thing they call v_qB is an unholy abomination
<rqou>
the first equation asserts that we can translate the coordinate of a point given in frame B into frame A by multiplying by the matrix R_{AB}
<rqou>
now it wants to find a velocity of some kind, so it differentiates this q_A
<egg|zzz|egg>
yeah yeah again that's what we found last time
<rqou>
and then gets a matrix Rdot_{AB}
<egg|zzz|egg>
they call vqB the velocity in frame A, *expressed in the coordinates of B*
<rqou>
something like that??
<egg|zzz|egg>
that's daft, so there's no magical formalism I can give you that will make it nondaft
<egg|zzz|egg>
the actual velocity in frame B is of course 0
<rqou>
well, yeah
<rqou>
but somehow they got a velocity that involves frame A, but it's expressed in the coordinates of B
<rqou>
doesn't quite make sense to me, but somehow blindly applying it got the right answer
<egg|zzz|egg>
well sure, you can take your velocity in frame A (or any frame fixed with respect to A) and express it in the basis of B, that's well-defined, it doesn't mean it makes much sense
<rqou>
anyways, so they decided they didn't like vqA=Rdot_{AB} q_B because there's "both A and B involved"
<rqou>
so it replaces q_B with R_{AB}^{-1} q_A (which makes sense)
<rqou>
but then they give Rdot_{AB}R_{AB}^{-1} the bizarre name of Vhat^S_{AB}
<rqou>
using similar tricks, they give R_{AB}^{-1}Rdot_{AB} the name of Vhat^b_{AB}
<rqou>
the slides then repeat this exercise twice, once for SO(3) and once for SE(3) even though nothing really changes
<egg|zzz|egg>
rqou: dunno, sounds like the same convention as in that first thing you showed me where I told you about Lie groups?
<rqou>
except, they have one more trick up their sleeves :P
<rqou>
they observe that Vhat^S_{AB} and Vhat^b_{AB} are always skew-symmetric, and use an "un-hat" operator to turn it into their unholy 6x1 vector
<rqou>
which is what happens on slide 18/95
<rqou>
now we get to the maximum fun, slide 21/95
<rqou>
they want an easy way to convert between the two different Vhat matrices
<egg|zzz|egg>
rqou: again the skew-symmetric=vector business sounds like exactly what we talked about with Lie algebras?
<rqou>
so they write this clusterfuck of a 6x6 matrix that is labeled Ad_g_{AB} that takes the "6x1 vector" representing one Vhat matrix and converts it into the "6x1 vector" representing the other Vhat matrix
<rqou>
yes, the skew-symmetric=vector business is the Lie algebra thing
<rqou>
except iirc you explained that there really should be a vector+bivector rather than a "6x1 vector"
<rqou>
but they ignore that and then shove the "6x1 vector" into this giant wtf of a "6x6 matrix"
<egg|zzz|egg>
yeah they don't like abstraction
<rqou>
and then, on slide 27/95, they use this giant "6x6 matrix" that they call the "adjoint matrix"
<rqou>
and they apply it to all of the "6x1 vectors" that represent joints (rotation axes) in the system
<rqou>
in a particular special way of course
<rqou>
and then they take all of these new 6x1 vectors and stack them into a huge matrix they call the "jacobian" matrix
<rqou>
this is then (not in this set of slides) used to derive information about "how controllable" the robot arm is
<rqou>
by looking at the rank of the jacobian matrix
<rqou>
finally, interspersed with all of this is some strange intuition about drawing circles from the axis of rotation to the two coordinate frames
<rqou>
and then looking at the tangents to the circles at the origins of each frame
<rqou>
this is somehow related to part of the 6x1 megavector
<rqou>
(this was slide 18/95)
<rqou>
egg|zzz|egg: clear as mud? :P
<egg|zzz|egg>
I have no idea what you're saying but you sound like you understand it so that's good
<rqou>
lol ok
<egg|zzz|egg>
do you have a version of those slides with actual hieroglyphs though :-p
<rqou>
so major questions: wtf are they actually doing when they "un-hat" the Vhat matrices?
<rqou>
yes it involves Lie algebras, and then what?
<rqou>
other major question: How the f*ck does that "adjoint" matrix work?
<rqou>
also: How does the "draw some circles" work?
<egg|zzz|egg>
wait where are V hats even
<egg|zzz|egg>
there are ω hats
<rqou>
they were the Rdot_{AB}R_{AB}^{-1} and R_{AB}^{-1}Rdot_{AB} matrices
<egg|zzz|egg>
aah when they do it with a bigger group