egg|nomz|egg changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer.
<bofh> 23:36:56 <@egg|zzz|egg> "However, specifying an isomorphism requires the axiom of choice" aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
<bofh> I am honestly 0% surprised.
<egg|zzz|egg> hm the third great old one is pretty bad but has a different transit
<egg|zzz|egg> Great Old Ones so far:
<egg|zzz|egg> χ² = 51965.429991 max Δt = 3629.346745 s (Trappist-1h[7962.862710]) avg Δt = 428.697907 s
<egg|zzz|egg> χ² = 1073470.020525 max Δt = 17759.433883 s (Trappist-1g[7356.534100]) avg Δt = 1693.550315 s
<egg|zzz|egg> χ² = 50789.413110 max Δt = 6236.747761 s (Trappist-1h[7962.862710]) avg Δt = 399.779309 s
<bofh> LOL at the third one.
<egg|zzz|egg> yeah
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<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: new one χ² = 41547.421954 max Δt = 4418.365838 s (Trappist-1h[7962.862710]) avg Δt = 342.592684 s
<egg|zzz|egg> what's going on with that transit of h
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<bofh> dear firefox: "hatecharge" is totally a word
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<UmbralRaptor> bofh: I was not expecting Elsevier to be evil in that way. https://twitter.com/geoffwozniak/status/1003422253193875458
<kmath> <geoffwozniak> @johnregehr @stephentyrone @bofh453 Oh, look who published it. ⏎ ⏎ https://t.co/TcwfPg6QxV
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<bofh> UmbralRaptor: elsevier is evil in almost all possible waya
<bofh> ways*
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<SnoopJeDi> Maybe they should have bid on GitHub? :P
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<UmbralRaptor> As long as Elsevier doesn't merge with DeBeers…
<kmath> <MemesSurreal> I'll wait https://t.co/ezgIAVLW4Y
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<egg|zzz|egg> oh good more TTV in fortran https://github.com/lucaborsato/trades
<egg|zzz|egg> but 90 this time
<tawny-> god I had to read that C thing like three times and still couldn't figure out what someone wrote it for until I noticed the "return a char pointer to caller" bit at the top
<tawny-> I'm not GOOD at programming but I like to tell myself I'm at least better than that
<egg|zzz|egg> ;rpn +3.49928258414271753e+05 86400 /
<kmath> egg|zzz|egg: 4.050095583498516
<egg|zzz|egg> ;rpn +1.62158639135768986ee+06 86400 /
<kmath> egg|zzz|egg: 0
<egg|zzz|egg> um
<egg|zzz|egg> ;rpn +1.62158639135768986e+06 86400 /
<kmath> egg|zzz|egg: 18.768361011084373
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<egg|work|egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a damped neptunium prime
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<kmath> <heterocat> I think surreal science memes are peaking https://t.co/CsGxFl43ez
<kmath> <✔AstroKatie> A surprising amount of research is scavenger hunting through other people’s papers trying to follow nested referenc… https://t.co/gmiVpJHMpU
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<bofh> egg|work|egg: I have no idea, I guess it's just a surreal meme
<egg|work|egg> !wpn bofh
* Qboid gives bofh a beige axiom
<kmath> <hhpapazian> These cufflinks are the only jewelry I've ever bought for myself, and I think I've only worn them once. But my elde… https://t.co/c1HF2DmO0F
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<UmbralRaptor> bofh, egg: it's all Lewis's fault.
<egg|work|egg> !wpn UmbralRaptor
* Qboid gives UmbralRaptor a saturated pointer with a macrolanguage attachment
<egg|work|egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a Peregrine MissingNo.
<egg|work|egg> !wpn коте and the котяchrome and grey kittens
* Qboid gives коте and the котяchrome and grey kittens a maximum symbol
<awang> So Microsoft is acquiring GitHub?
<egg|work|egg> seems so, there's even a banner at the top
<egg|work|egg> and a window + octocat logotype
<egg|work|egg> wait wat, it's not a picture of the Windows logo, it's four square coloured spans O_o
<egg|work|egg> but the + is a svg
<awang> I like how the spacing on the upper left rid is ever so slightly off
<awang> And maybe the blue
<awang> s/rid/red
<Qboid> awang meant to say: I like how the spacing on the upper left red is ever so slightly off
<egg|work|egg> yeah I'm not sure whether that's intentional
<egg|work|egg> but it's weird
<awang> Hmmm
<awang> It looks better if you zoom in
<egg|work|egg> yeah
<egg|work|egg> so it's probably not intended
<egg|work|egg> why didn't you use an svg >_>
<egg|work|egg> (guessing that this is github putting this up, they don't *have* an svg and hacked this together, whereas they have an octocat)
<awang> I'd imagine a Microsoft svg would be super simple to throw together though
<awang> It's a square with more squares
<awang> idk
<egg|work|egg> yes but the people who make the svgs are not those who make the banners :-p
* egg|work|egg glares at the weather
* egg|work|egg should get home before the rain
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<egg|phone|egg> UmbralRaptor: should I go for RACI 31.75 mm ocular or straight through 50.8 mm for the ANBO finder
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<UmbralRaptor> I want to say angled is easier to look through. But correct vs inverted depends in how you're moving the scope.
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<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: hand for when the finder is relevant?
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: with the current ANBOscope, holding it at the eyepiece with clutches loosened
<UmbralRaptor> Pushing scope: right angle. Hand controller or fine adjustment knobs, inverted IMO. Especially for an equatorial mount.
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: well, when holding the eyepiece inverted is fairly intuitive
<egg|zzz|egg> (that's not really pushing the scope per se :-p)
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<egg|zzz|egg> !seen ellied
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: I haven't seen the user ellied yet.
<UmbralRaptor> hm
<egg|zzz|egg> what happened to greening
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: other thing to consider: I'm probably looking at a cat?
<egg|zzz|egg> or *maybe* RC, but probably kitty
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<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: but probably not a newt in any case
<UmbralRaptor> Yeah, a cat is small enough that a straight through finder shouldn't be at a bad angle very often.
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: well I'm probably looking at the same finder as in zurich but straight through (so 80 mm), so placement wrt the scope is unusual :-p
<egg|zzz|egg> maybe next to it on a dovetail? :-p
<UmbralRaptor> Unequal Binocular Telescope
<UmbralRaptor> o_O
<egg|zzz|egg> ;rpn 80 200 / 2 ^
<kmath> egg|zzz|egg: 0.16
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: finder with 16 % the light of the main scope? :D
<egg|zzz|egg> (bit more because of the obstruction on the main)
<UmbralRaptor> o_O
<SilverFox> so my gas tank seems rather biased towards full, I can go further on the first quarter than I can in the 50% after that, and the final quarter lasts much less than a third of the first quarter, how would I express this mathemajically?
<UmbralRaptor> So, main scope "only" goes 2 magnitudes deeper.
<SilverFox> I want to display a more accurate distance till empty
<SilverFox> and implement a true fuel remaining based on average fuel percentage
<egg|zzz|egg> ;rpn 80 2 ^ 200 2 ^ 200 .39 * 2 ^ - /
<kmath> egg|zzz|egg: 0.188701497818139
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: 19 % counting the obstruction :-p
<UmbralRaptor> SilverFox: collect datapoints, fit a semi-arbitrary polynomial with a low χ²?
<SilverFox> hmmm
<SilverFox> why is that x lower than the word "low"?
<SilverFox> that's fucked
<egg|zzz|egg> and ask bofh for how to fit a minimax polynomial if least-squares isn't good enough :D
<UmbralRaptor> ;c log(0.19)/log(100)
<kmath> UmbralRaptor: -0.360623199523586
<UmbralRaptor> ;c log(0.19)/log(10)
<kmath> UmbralRaptor: -0.721246399047171
* UmbralRaptor 🔪 magnitudes
<bofh> egg|zzz|egg: not sure how much I feel like explaining the theory behind Remez Exchange right now :P
<bofh> s/iou/not/
<Qboid> bofh meant to say: which in a lot of ways is actually more hilarnots.
<bofh> ...
<bofh> Thuboid.
<egg|zzz|egg> ;rpn 1 .39 / sqrt log10 5 *
<kmath> egg|zzz|egg: 0
<egg|zzz|egg> um.
<egg|zzz|egg> ;rpn 1 .39 / sqrt log
<kmath> egg|zzz|egg: 0.20446769648675
<egg|zzz|egg> ;rpn 1 .39 / sqrt log 10 log / 5 *
<kmath> egg|zzz|egg: 1.022338482433752
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: Ꙩ_ꙩ so a gain of only one magnitude?
* egg|zzz|egg confused
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: why is it the ratio of the diametres and not that of the areas anyway
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: how do magnitudes work
<UmbralRaptor> egg|zzz|egg: that 5 is really 2.5*2, where the 2 comes from log(d²/D²) = 2 log(d/D)
<egg|zzz|egg> aha
<egg|zzz|egg> ;rpn 1 .39 / log 10 log / 2.5 *
<kmath> egg|zzz|egg: 1.022338482433752
<UmbralRaptor> SilverFox: that was a chi, not an x.
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: so yeah, only one magnitude between an 80 mm finder and that of the 200 mm kitty? Ꙩ_ꙩ
<UmbralRaptor> Should be 2 o_O
<egg|zzz|egg> wait where did i get that 39 from
<egg|zzz|egg> ;rpn 1 .19 / log 10 log / 2.5 *
<kmath> egg|zzz|egg: 1.803115997617928
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: 1.8 magnitudes
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<egg|zzz|egg> that makes a bit more sense i guess
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a prime asymmetric heat sink
egg|zzz|egg is now known as egg
<bofh> egg: I'm not an astronomer, dunno.
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<SilverFox> what's the difference between this "chi" and x?
<egg> they are different letters from different alphabets
<SnoopJeDi> although x has some χ DNA
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<egg> ;rpn +3.39160133646944795e+00 -2.89158397071014361e+00 -
<kmath> egg: 6.283185307179592
<egg> oops my coordinate change for мcmc had an incorrect inverse
<egg> that might explain why it didn't converge :-p
<SilverFox> MC mc droppin the sick converging beats
<egg> also something else is garbled
<SnoopJeDi> egg, something something abstraction? :D
<egg> well this code has none, it's extremely shitty wip
<SnoopJeDi> I'm just teasing anyhow
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<egg> UmbralRaptor: bofh: AAAAAA we have managed to end up in a situation where phl and I have been optimizing elements 10 days apart so they're not interchangeable
<UmbralRaptor> AΑAAAAAΑ
UmbralRaptor is now known as NomalRaptor
* NomalRaptor 🔪 fonts
<egg> !wpn NomalRaptor
* Qboid gives NomalRaptor an equinoctial anticommutator
<egg> ooops i forgot a sign and now i'm maximizing χ²
<egg> in that direction it goes fast :-p
<NomalRaptor> oops
<kmath> <zandravandra> @mcclure111 “In an effort to make the new iPhone the thinnest smart device in history, it turns out we also made it… https://t.co/cWEeOZ8Eq9
<egg> !wpn -add:adj Metropolis-Hastings
<Qboid> egg: Adjective added!
<egg> NomalRaptor: bofh: yay reduced χ² now below 10
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<egg> !wpn Ellied
* Qboid gives Ellied a cathode Boris pusher
<Ellied> !wpn egg
* Qboid gives egg a postorder state-of-the-art crayon
<NomalRaptor> !wpn Ellied
* Qboid gives Ellied an assembly
<iximeow> !wpn Ellied's assembly
* Qboid gives Ellied's assembly a sulfur cosmonaut
* NomalRaptor is suddenly glad that Liberation Sans is indistinguishable from Arial.
<bofh> Oh? :P
<bofh> egg: holy fuck that's, um. that's much better
<egg> bofh: χ² = 1325.485831 max Δt = 1090.693657 s (Trappist-1g[7356.534100]) avg Δt = 85.751852 s
<egg> n = 284 (minus the degrees of freedom of the fit but whatever)
<SnoopJeDi> !wpn -add:adj Sierpinski
<Qboid> SnoopJeDi: Adjective added!
<NomalRaptor> bofh: okay, maybe not for you, but for mortals…
<SnoopJeDi> !wpn -add:adj Koch
<Qboid> SnoopJeDi: Adjective added!
<Ellied> NomalRaptor: I've had decent luck passing off Linux Libertine G as Times New Roman lately
<iximeow> .... why are we laundering fonts?
<bofh> NomalRaptor: so it probably is indistinguishable for me unless I look at both.
<bofh> I'm just confused, do you have a requirement to write something in a specific font?
<bofh> And if so, wtf?
<bofh> egg: not bad
<iximeow> extremely picky OCR
<iximeow> (/s)
* egg gives comic sans to the OCR
<bofh> I mean, Comic Sans actually OCRs really well with a proper model,
<iximeow> OCR acutally just outputs images of clippy
<NomalRaptor> bofh, iximeow: poster editing resulting in round trips through MS Office and LibreOffice.
<SnoopJeDi> Ellied, are you familiar with this blog? If not, this is your genre: https://zeptobars.com/en/read/OPA627-AD744-real-vs-fake-china-ebay
<bofh> ooh, zeptobars
<bofh> NomalRaptor: Ah, right, that is an annoyingly familiar ""fun""
<egg> NomalRaptor: iximeow: unrelated https://goo.gl/photos/uArrkMPU6RozBarj7
<egg> giant german mount in KSP :D
<NomalRaptor> OET!
<egg> (that was in 2015)
<egg> I should do it again now that Principia provides tilt and accurate celestial positions
<iximeow> !
<egg> whitequark: extremely silly usage of KSP ^
<bofh> ROFL
<bofh> This is pretty great.
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<NomalRaptor> ;8ball is this poster sufficient?
<kmath> NomalRaptor: As I see it, yes
<kmath> <Yuukonline> My best friend just messaged me that Tali, his cat, moved a heavy scratchpost all over the living room, and she bro… https://t.co/X4xvQYCw7T
<NomalRaptor> ;8ball Will PowerPoint choke because I added an SVG?
<kmath> NomalRaptor: Concentrate and ask again
* NomalRaptor points a parabolic mirror at kmath.
* NomalRaptor looks at the OpenGL announcement.
<NomalRaptor> "Courage"
NomalRaptor is now known as UmbralRaptor
<UmbralRaptor> Nah, this isn't a new universal standard. It's exclusive to iOS and OSX.
<SnoopJeDi> UmbralRaptor, who said anything about universal?
<SnoopJeDi> uh aside from randall munroe I guess
<bofh> 19:54:45 <@NomalRaptor> ;8ball Will PowerPoint choke because I added an SVG?
<bofh> IME, almost certainly yes.
<UmbralRaptor> Oops.
<UmbralRaptor> Do I get any points for making PowerPoint choke on a meatball?
<SnoopJeDi> bofh, I discovered a 'delightful' behavior with shape-art. There is some critical threshold of number of composited shapes at which point that object will break a columnar layout, but only *sometimes*
<SnoopJeDi> (my advisor has a habit of using Word as a poor-man's Photoshop)
<APlayer> Uh, GIMP is the current standard for the poor-man's Photoshop, isn't it?
<SnoopJeDi> you're not wrong
<bofh> ^
<SnoopJeDi> APlayer, pragmatic reality is not in the purview of my advisor
<SnoopJeDi> he's got a hammer and everything is a nail
<APlayer> Well, I mean, Paint would be horrible but understandable - learning PS or GIMP is not for everyone. But Word? C'mon
<SnoopJeDi> file under: he has an Enochian-horror spreadsheet to anneal a solution to the Poisson equation with nonlinearity (presence of iron)
<APlayer> Oh, there come the chinese rants :P
<SnoopJeDi> "you see, you indicate where the boundary conditions are by putting an 'x' in the right cells..."
<SnoopJeDi> APlayer, time to learn photo-editing: > 6 hours. time to fuck drag white rectangles over things in Word: < 6 seconds.
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<SnoopJeDi> uh, that profanity just kinda slipped in there, my bad. but it indicates how I feel about it well enough
<APlayer> 5 < Seconds to paint white over an image in Paint < 30
<SnoopJeDi> what exactly are you trying to convince me of?
<SnoopJeDi> *I* don't do this shit
<APlayer> Not trying to convince you, just wondering alound :P
<APlayer> Aloud*
<egg> !wpn bofh
* Qboid gives bofh a magnetohydrodynamic Van Allen wrench
<egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a XeTeX adjective
<egg> UmbralRaptor: bofh: now there's a concern with that TRAPPIST-1 system: we took all Ω = 0 and i fixed non-coplanar from some paper
<egg> so all the orbits are going to be articulated around some silly line >_>
<UmbralRaptor> SnoopJeDi: Eh, this isn't KSPO. Sometimes profanity is appropriate language.
<UmbralRaptor> egg: fixed LAN?
<SnoopJeDi> I try to avoid it in here out of some sense of respect for the loftiness, I guess
<kmath> <✔tanyaofmars> Apparently today is #NationalCheeseDay so be sure to celebrate this most holy of days accordingly. 🧀❤️🧀… https://t.co/atUzXqTbRm
<bofh> 20:21:09 <@egg> so all the orbits are going to be articulated around some silly line >_>
<bofh> seems... not unreasonable?
<egg> UmbralRaptor: yeah at 0 which feels wrong?
<egg> UmbralRaptor: phl got the inclinations from a paper that somehow lists inclinations but not nodes and i have no idea how they get the inclinations without nodes
<egg> UmbralRaptor: any idea how that works https://arxiv.org/abs/1801.02554 ?
<bofh> I assume fixing the nodes at the same point?
<egg> they menion the transit impact parameter b = a cos i/R*, so yes, but why
<egg> on what grounds can you say that all the nodes are 90 deg away
<bofh> /¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<egg> this thing https://arxiv.org/pdf/1001.2010.pdf says "Since the orientation of the line of nodes relative to celestial north (or any other externally defined axis) is usually unknown and of limited interest, we might as well align the X axis with the line of nodes; we place the
<egg> descending node of the planet’s orbit along the +X axis, giving Ω = 180 deg"
<egg> so, um, no good reason >_>
<bofh> "Since the orientation of the line of nodes relative to celestial north (or any other externally defined axis) is usually unknown and of limited interest" I mean I *agree* with them here.
<egg> bofh: well it depends, if all the nodes are magically aligned it looks silly in KSP
<egg> UmbralRaptor: bofh: so that means the inclinations given by fitting the transit widths are really minimal inclinations, since you'd get the same width from more inclination closer to the node?
<bofh> Hrm. I *think* so?
<egg> UmbralRaptor: bofh: so, should we randomize the nodes a bit, doing spherical trig to have the inclinations yield a consistent transit width, and then run the optimization with that fixed
<egg> so that it doesn't look weird
* egg ponders
<egg> wait shouldn't the nodes precess anyway?
<bofh> I mean they will in any natural orbital system...
<egg> bofh: UmbralRaptor: aha so they're explicit about that in 3.1.2 of https://arxiv.org/pdf/1711.05739.pdf
<egg> UmbralRaptor: we need planet-planet occultations!
<UmbralRaptor> !
<egg> UmbralRaptor: does randomizing the Ωs make sense in the meantime?
<UmbralRaptor> I guess?
<egg> UmbralRaptor: https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/157020-seven-worlds-around-slippist-1-v04/ sounds like a good starting point as far as actual planets are concerned
<egg> where is gregox when i need him
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<egg> well here i guess https://twitter.com/GregroxMun
<egg> UmbralRaptor: bofh: i have seen a χ² of 353
<egg> since we're using up fewer dof for the fit that's better than the best χ² they report in their paper!
<egg> UmbralRaptor: you can actually use principia for TTV!
<UmbralRaptor> !
<egg> UmbralRaptor: also looking at that planet-planet paper we might be able to constrain Ω by TDV
<egg> but I'm not sure where to find the transit durations
<egg> !acr -add:TDV Transit Duration Variation
<Qboid> egg: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<egg> UmbralRaptor: also we have a surprisingly fast scheme with this first cut by genetic algorithm followed by deмcmc refinement
<egg> much faster than getting a deмcmc started
<egg> UmbralRaptor: you should use principia!
<UmbralRaptor> at some point
<egg> UmbralRaptor: stabbity user https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/162200-wip131-143-principia%E2%80%94version-darboux-released-2018-05-15%E2%80%94n-body-and-extended-body-gravitation-axial-tilt/&page=42&tab=comments#comment-3392213
<UmbralRaptor> phl++
<egg> also why can this user not say anything without detailing their CV
<SnoopJeDi> bofh, did you see the follow-up: https://twitter.com/dijkstracula/status/1003317995584671744
<kmath> <dijkstracula> ...and then did the obvious next thing and fired it through a markov chain, generating an infinity of procedurally-… https://t.co/7PDPusWe4q
<egg> UmbralRaptor: oh wait it doesn't include the eyepiece which is 69 at stellarvue
<egg> so it's just a rebranded stellarvue F80?
<UmbralRaptor> Quite possibly.
<bofh> SnoopJeDi: I WAS LITERALLY GOING TO PROPOSE DOING THAT
<egg> UmbralRaptor: that's good news then because it means i can buy an F80 1. locally 2. without a 31,75 mm eyepiece for the RACI focuser that I'd replace by the 50,8 mm straight-through 3. in white like the main scope :-p
<egg> although the straight-through focuser i still have to buy in the US I think
<egg> but that's easier to ship
<egg> UmbralRaptor: bofh: χ² = 349.694098 max Δt = 895.281940 s (Trappist-1g[7294.786000]) avg Δt = 57.581223 s
* UmbralRaptor still finds it weird to see the conversions for 1.25" and 2" eyepieces.
<UmbralRaptor> egg: Yay, <350.
<egg> indeed, and with fewer fit parameters than Grimm et al. so better P-value!
<UmbralRaptor> Wait, is Grimm the guy hunting down faked data?
<egg> belgians
<bofh> UmbralRaptor: no, GRIMM is a scheme used to hunt down faked data, not a person.
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<UmbralRaptor> Ah
<UmbralRaptor> If you do the GOG thing, they're giving away Xenonauts.
<egg> !wpn UmbralRaptor
* Qboid gives UmbralRaptor a halon infinity/compactification hybrid
<UmbralRaptor> !wpn egg
* Qboid gives egg a wet sandwich
<UmbralRaptor> uh
<egg> Qboid: it's soggy, you shouldn't have put the tomato right on top of the bread
<UmbralRaptor> Hm. An LGBT sandwich is rather appropriate for this month.
<bofh> LOL
<egg> ... okay why do we get a live feed of his issues with installing RO in the principia thread https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/162200-wip131-143-principia%E2%80%94version-darboux-released-2018-05-15%E2%80%94n-body-and-extended-body-gravitation-axial-tilt/&page=42&tab=comments#comment-3392991
<egg> !choose zzz|notzzz
<Qboid> egg: Your options are: zzz, notzzz. My choice: zzz
egg is now known as egg|zzz|egg
egg|z|egg has quit [Ping timeout: 194 seconds]
<UmbralRaptor> Sleep of death.