egg|nomz|egg changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer.
<armed_troop> bofh: apparently your presence has been requested on freenode?
<armed_troop> (sorry for being a nuisance)
<bofh> armed_troop: in uh what channel
<armed_troop> ##yamahasynths
<armed_troop> which is finally fixed
<armed_troop> wait, you might not be the same bofh? :|
<bofh> armed_troop: I am
<bofh> and just noticed lol
<armed_troop> alright. I've run into that issue before (name and name_ being TOTALLY DIFFERENT PEOPLE)
<bofh> who are you on freenode?
<armed_troop> balrog
<bofh> ah
<kmath> <fiora_ebooks> I've taken to calling it Hatoful Orcfriend because really "Middle Earth: Shadooblies of Mumblydoors" is a charm quark!
<kmath> <TiroTypeworks> Among numerous things annoying me in small ways today, the emojification of random Unicode symbol characters: https://t.co/BrkGlcqh2U
<bofh> egg|phone|egg: https://arxiv.org/abs/1704.04289
<SnoopJeDi> ...WOW, I did *not* know those weren't separate codepoints
<SnoopJeDi> wtf why
<whitequark> same reason han unification happened
<SnoopJeDi> isn't that mapping many-to-one rather than one-to-many?
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<kmath> <✔NASAMoon> It’s Fermi Madness! We’re celebrating 10 years of @NASAFermi in space by pitting some of the best gamma-ray discove… https://t.co/5AKfLuQfRb
<SnoopJeDi> brackets are *in*
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<UmbralRaptop> No, moon being brighter than sun in gamma rays. o_O
<egg|phone|egg> !Wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a Hilbert jellied spider
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<egg|zzz|egg> !u ๐
<Qboid> U+0E50 THAI DIGIT ZERO (๐)
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:DSLWP Discovering the Sky at Longest Wavelengths Pathfinder
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<bofh> oh so *that's* what it means
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<egg|work|egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a refractor
<egg|work|egg> Qboid: which aperture
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<egg|work|egg> !wpn bofh
* Qboid gives bofh a damped eraser/defenestration hybrid
<egg|work|egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a Fermi-Dirac Bessel épée
<bofh> !wpn egg|work|egg
* Qboid gives egg|work|egg a Sierpinski chain array
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<egg|work|egg> meow
<kmath> <rygorous> Generating functions are series business.
<egg|work|egg> groan
<bofh> https://twitter.com/AnalysisFact/status/1007616649091014656 kinds curious what y'all's response'd be
<kmath> <AnalysisFact> If a genie offered to give you a thorough understanding of one theorem, what theorem would you choose?
<bofh> (I went with Atiyah-Singer)
* UmbralRaptop is unsure
<kmath> <docsmooth> "Simple to join on any platform" ⏎ "You can't start or join this WebEx meeting because it's enabled for WebEx Meeting… https://t.co/nJ29j6DGGW
<UmbralRaptop> egg|zzz|egg: ANBOcat analogue?
<egg|work|egg> yup
<egg|work|egg> very friendly
<egg|work|egg> UmbralRaptop: also my mother is visiting ANBOcat so there might be some ANBOcatpics :-p
* UmbralRaptop meows at the !ANBOcat
<awang> AHHHHH WEBEX
<UmbralRaptop> cite, but avoid/recommend against any collaborations? https://twitter.com/danengber/status/1007319963617644545
<kmath> <danengber> POLL: How would news that a colleague was fired for sexual misconduct affect your use of his research?
* UmbralRaptop stares at Geoff Marcy with unease.
<bofh> UmbralRaptop: same, and I'd also triple-check the data carefully since I *would* trust it less.
<e_14159> Thirded.
<UmbralRaptop> yeah
<egg|work|egg> !pet whitequark
* Qboid pets whitequark
<egg|work|egg> !pet the ANBOcat lookalike
* Qboid pets the ANBOcat lookalike
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<e_14159> By the way: I have a complete master's thesis with my correct name on my desk. It's over (except for the presentation)!
<SnoopJeDi> \o/
<e_14159> I feel like... nah, I'm not even happy :D
<egg|work|egg> !wpn cats
* Qboid gives cats a stretchy beta Alakazam
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<egg|work|egg> birb?
<UmbralRaptop> Something like that.
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<UmbralRaptop> Note to self: 27 ≠ 3
<bofh> what's 2 orders of magnitude between friends?
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<tawny> UmbralRaptor, idk if you ever got an explanation but the sun doesn't really emit gamma rays at all, while the moon's surface (idk what minerals or elements exactly) gets hit with cosmic rays and emits gamma rays as a result
<tawny> I've seen a lot of highly misleading headlines and quotes about that exact fact
<tawny> claiming things like "if you could see gamma rays the moon would be brighter than the sun", implying the moon gives off WAY more radiation than the sun in total but really it's not exceptional
<tawny> I'm pretty sure basically any rocky surface with similar area in the sky would be brighter when you only consider gamma radiation
<kmath> <volatile_void> Hygiène https://t.co/sX725NOfHf
<kmath> <volatile_void> Pink https://t.co/Jv1L9ERcbb
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<SnoopJeDi> tawny, plus the Moon's fields are too weak to play very much hijinks
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<UmbralRaptor> Ah, cosmic ray shenanigans.
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<SnoopJeDi> apparently it is #CephalopodWeek for Science Friday
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<Raptop> 🦑🐙🦑🐙🦑🐙🦑🐙🦑🐙
<egg|zzz|egg> !u 🦑
<Qboid> U+1F991 SQUID (🦑)
<SnoopJeDi> cuttlefish emoji when
<Raptop> Proposal: cephalopod emoji with variation selectors.
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<SnoopJeDi> Addendum: variators should include parameterization of accessible color-space due to Sutherland et. al's optical model of (chromato|irido)phores https://www.osapublishing.org/josaa/abstract.cfm?uri=josaa-25-8-2044
<SnoopJeDi> which happily enough, match up very well with spectral measurements performed by Akkaynak in the Aegean https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23254307
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<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn pizzaoverhead
* Qboid gives pizzaoverhead a terbium Airy box
<pizzaoverhead> !wpn egg|zzz|egg
* Qboid gives egg|zzz|egg a modified action
<pizzaoverhead> Hello!
<bofh> !wpn egg|zzz|egg
* Qboid gives egg|zzz|egg an American wpn
<Raptop> !meow egg|zzz|egg
* Qboid meows at egg|zzz|egg
<egg|zzz|egg> !pet Qboid
* Qboid pets Qboid
<bofh> https://twitter.com/JPMajor/status/1007694481200738304 weirdly this is technically *accurate*.
<kmath> <JPMajor> That is not dead which can eternal lie...... https://t.co/ShXHKvomPr
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: wait wat this is actually a thing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waluigi
<egg|zzz|egg> also why is it not Гuigi
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<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a surjective nephroid
<awang> egg|zzz|egg: You didn't know Гuigi is a thing?
<awang> You need to play more video games :P
<egg|zzz|egg> awang: KSP?
<kmath> <bofh453> Just referred to Γ as "Waluigi" in a meeting, I need more coffee. >_<
<SnoopJeDi> egg|zzz|egg, your integrators came up in conversation during our Astronomy on Tap event last night
<awang> egg|zzz|egg: Well, maybe if someone wrote a Mario-in-KSP mod...
<egg|zzz|egg> SnoopJeDi: huh
<SnoopJeDi> I mean, it was me who did it
<egg|zzz|egg> awang: also have you tried TRAPPIST-1
<awang> bofh: Yep, saw that
<awang> Nintendo is leaking into more academia fields, and I'm not complaining
<awang> egg|zzz|egg: No, unfortunately
<awang> Haven't booted KSP in ages
<awang> Probably should
<SnoopJeDi> I think someone cracked wise about the simulation hypothesis, and someone else asked about numerical representation and error, and away we went...
<awang> I did read bits and pieces of the conversation on #principia
<SnoopJeDi> I told http://people.physics.tamu.edu/papovich/ the saga of Retrobop (as best I could recall)
<egg|zzz|egg> bop
<egg|zzz|egg> doq
* Raptop 🔪 a server for lacking astropy
<Raptop> U+200F + bop
<egg|zzz|egg> retrobop
<egg|zzz|egg> doqoɹʇǝɹ
<SnoopJeDi> Raptop, `pip install --user` or conda \o/
<Raptop> SnoopJeDi: no pip, no conda, and I'm not in sudoers, so I can't use apt-get.
<SnoopJeDi> no pip o.O
<SnoopJeDi> okay, install pip first then :P
<SnoopJeDi> (or miniconda)
* SnoopJeDi hugs miniconda
<Raptop> smol snek
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: the vi wiktionary article for cat has a gif of cats https://vi.wiktionary.org/wiki/m%C3%A8o#
<egg|zzz|egg> Raptop: smol_snek_case
<Raptop> egg|zzz|egg: I was eggspecting the unix command
<egg|zzz|egg> includes a really angry cat too
<Raptop> … oh, server has 3.4.3, astropy requires 3.5 or 3.6.
<awang> Wait, how do you get a Python install without pip these days
<Raptop> ``\_(^_^)_/``
<SnoopJeDi> wait *what* requires 3.5 or 3.6?!
<SnoopJeDi> wow, astropy is more avante garde than I thought
<SnoopJeDi> avant garde*
<egg|zzz|egg> Raptop: bofh: whitequark: https://imgur.com/a/LGUj5ED TRAPPIST-1
<Raptop> starspots!
<egg|zzz|egg> Raptop: transits!
<Raptop> !!!
<kmath> <simongerman600> If you have a few LEGOs leftover and a bit of empty space on your wall may I suggest a little craft project? I am t… https://t.co/jFMzS4Coyh
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<awang> egg|zzz|egg: So how much dv do you need to transfer between TRAPPIST-1 planets?
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<UmbralRaptor> uh, that's burning to/from a Hohmann transfer from/to a 200 km altitude orbit.
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<UmbralRaptor> column is from, row is to. IIRC.
<kmath> <volatile_void> This cat café is a bit rubbish, there is only one cat. https://t.co/gEZM7fwb3R
<bofh> egg|zzz|egg: NICE at TRAPPIST-1.
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: no, the Nice model is for our solar system, not the TRAPPIST-1 system,
<bofh> *snicker*
<egg|zzz|egg> !u 𒑰
<Qboid> U+12470 CUNEIFORM PUNCTUATION SIGN OLD ASSYRIAN WORD DIVIDER (𒑰)
<bofh> where did you see *that*?
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: so the infamous RFC is now talking about CamelCase in unicameral scripts
<egg|zzz|egg> therefore I am reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_divider
<bofh> unicameral? as in no case distinction existing?
<egg|zzz|egg> yes
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: mostly I defer to Manish on that one because obvious reasons but he's punting
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: see https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/2457#issuecomment-397741351 and below and don't look above it's a shitshow
<Qboid> [#2457] title: Allow non-ASCII identifiers | Allow non-ASCII letters (such as accented characters, Cyrillic, Greek, Kanji, etc.) in Rust identifiers.... | https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/2457
<bofh> I heard it inexplicably turned into a shitshow
<egg|zzz|egg> ~stronzi americani~
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: this RFC makes me love the ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 22 process
<egg|zzz|egg> I mean the ISO process in general, NBRs can be daft but they avoid this particular flavour of nonsense
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: FORTRAN still doesn't have non-ASCII identifiers though, wonder what the DK NBR has been up to in that WG
<bofh> I have no idea, honestly.
<bofh> I'm basically unfamiliar with anything in Fortran past F95.
<egg|zzz|egg> I'm impressed that C has had this since 99
<bofh> Same, honestly. Would not have expected that.
<egg|zzz|egg> (they did it rather badly because there was little guidance from Unicode then obviously)
<egg|zzz|egg> (and this means it's badly done in modern C++ because based on it)
<egg|zzz|egg> C# and Ada do it well within their respective constraints (that's 2002 and 2005), they'd probably be done a little bit differently with the more flexible UAX31 than with the annex of UAX15
<egg|zzz|egg> yes the standard annex used to have an annex, which is now its own standard annex
<awang> UmbralRaptor: o_O
<awang> That seems insanely high
<egg|zzz|egg> PEP 3131 goes with UAX31 pretty much directly, but screws up the choice of normalization (it's a case sensitive language so should use C), maybe Unicode didn't have an explicit recommendation at the time
<awang> Then again, I haven't done many interplanetary burns in RO, so idk what my frame of reference is
<awang> Actually
<awang> Isn't TLI ~3000 m/s?
<awang> Maybe it isn't that bad
<UmbralRaptor> awang: red dwarfs actually hate you.
<UmbralRaptor> 3400 m/s, IIRC.
<awang> UmbralRaptor: Wait, so are those interplanetary dv values really high or something?
<UmbralRaptor> somewhat high.
<UmbralRaptor> The Oberth effect greatly mitigates them.
<awang> Right, because everything is so close in?
<awang> How much would gravity assists help there?
<awang> Because everything is so close?
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<UmbralRaptop> Probably quite a bit.
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<UmbralRaptop> These planets are at least 2.5x the mass of Mars, and two of them marginally outweigh Earth!
<bofh> egg|zzz|egg: what did PEP 3131 go with?
<awang> Hmmm
<awang> RL Jool system?
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: normalization form KC
<awang> Wonder what the Tylo equivalent is
<bofh> yuck
<bofh> Personally my preference is NFD, followed by NFC.
<egg|zzz|egg> Ada requires that the program text be in normalization form KC, but that's pretty much the only sane option in a case insensitive language http://www.ada-auth.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/ais/ai-00285.txt?rev=1.34
<kmath> <eggleroy> @ManishEarth As a side note, I am endlessly amused by “the documents referenced by the note in section 1 of ISO/IEC… https://t.co/aBZa3KPZWH
<bofh> egg|zzz|egg: my question is why don't more people use normalization forms D/KD
<egg|zzz|egg> hysterical raisins like literally everything?
<egg|zzz|egg> most things tend to input NFC because precomposed characters are the ones that correspond to old encodings
<bofh> except I'm not sure that applies, all 4 forms came out at the same time and (K)D is just (K)C *minus* a step at the end.
<egg|zzz|egg> yes but that's irrelevant
<egg|zzz|egg> ISO-IR-069 came out rather a long time ago
<egg|zzz|egg> and similarly for ISO/IEC 8859-1
<egg|zzz|egg> old character sets had precomposed characters (or rather no concept of combining marks)
<egg|zzz|egg> those were encoded into the universal coded character set
<egg|zzz|egg> things that input now-precomposed characters just work the same
<egg|zzz|egg> Unicode very importantly doesn't exist in a vacuum, that's why it actually works and is full of compatibility stuff (stares at ohm symbol etc.)
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<bofh> Fair enough.
<awang> egg|zzz|egg: What happened to the ohm symbol?
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: same for Korean, they built up giant encodings of precomposed characters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KS_X_1001#Pre-composed_Hangul_sets_(rows_number_16_through_40)
<egg|zzz|egg> awang: it is canonically equivalent to GREEK CAPITAL LETTER OMEGA
<egg|zzz|egg> (i.e. it exists only for compatibility)
<awang> egg|zzz|egg: Oh
<awang> Wait, is it not actually supposed to be GREEK CAPITAL LETTER OMEGA?
<egg|zzz|egg> no you are not supposed to use that unless you need to roundtrip with a legacy encoding
<egg|zzz|egg> and even there your rountripper cound be better
<egg|zzz|egg> (e.g. windows actually knows how to convert GREEK SMOL LETTER MU through CP1252)
<egg|zzz|egg> awang: wait yes it is supposed to be omega
<egg|zzz|egg> awang: it is *not* supposed to be ohm sign
<egg|zzz|egg> the ohm sign is omega not ohm sign :D
<egg|zzz|egg> (that's not a normalization matter, but the apostrophe is right single quotation mark, not apostrophe)
<bofh> egg|zzz|egg: yeah I figured that's why we have the mess that is U+AD00 - U+D7A3 instead of just 3 small blocks of decomposed Jamo like what would be sensible.
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: also since I referred to KS X 1001, obligatory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KPS_9566#Composed_Chos%C5%8Fn'g%C5%ADl_sets_(rows_number_16_through_44)
<egg|zzz|egg> !choose 한글|조선글
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: Your options are: 한글, 조선글. My choice: 한글
<egg|zzz|egg> ;choose 한글|조선글
<kmath> egg|zzz|egg: 한글
<bofh> KPS9566 is, admittedly, kind of a mess, even moreso than KSX1001.
<awang> egg|zzz|egg: Ah, I see what you're saying
<awang> !u Ω
<Qboid> U+03A9 GREEK CAPITAL LETTER OMEGA (Ω)
<bofh> which is saying something.
<awang> !u U+2126
<Qboid> U+2126 OHM SIGN (Ω)
<awang> Hm
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: how so?
<egg|zzz|egg> bofh: I mean there is row 4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KPS_9566#Character_set_0x24/0xA4_(row_number_4,_Chos%C5%8Fn'g%C5%ADl_jamo_and_leaders'_names) but then again https://twitter.com/BabelStone/status/943095397987299329 so
<kmath> <BabelStone> Japan requests the reservation of a code point for the square symbol for the era name of the new Japanese emperor,… https://t.co/eXUkILr7Vy
<egg|zzz|egg> !u 김
<Qboid> U+AE40 HANGUL SYLLABLE GIM (김)
<awang> Why does Japan need a code point specifically for the era name?
<awang> Can't reuse the code point for the existing character?
<egg|zzz|egg> it's two characters squashed into a square
<awang> Ah
<awang> the other characters in the paper looked like a plain Chinese character to me, so I thought it might already exist
<egg|zzz|egg> ㍻ compatibility decomposes to 平成
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<egg|zzz|egg> !pet UmbralRaptop
* Qboid pets UmbralRaptop
<UmbralRaptop> !meow ANBOcat && !ANBOcat
* Qboid meows at ANBOcat && !ANBOcat