egg|nomz|egg changed the topic of #kspacademia to: https://gist.github.com/pdn4kd/164b9b85435d87afbec0c3a7e69d3e6d | Dogs are cats. Spiders are cat interferometers. | Космизм сегодня! | Document well, for tomorrow you may get mauled by a ネコバス. | <UmbralRaptor> egg|nomz|egg: generally if your eyes are dewing over, that's not the weather. | <ferram4> I shall beat my problems to death with an engineer.
<awang> I heard there was something about a possible fourth flavor of neutrino?
<awang> Anyone know anything more about this?
<UmbralRaptor> Results from a neutrino detector show ultrafast oscillations, suggesting an additional flavor. They match with one experiment, but I think conflict with others?
<awang> Ah
<awang> The best kind of result
<awang> Sterile neutrinos?
<UmbralRaptor> Ones that don't interact via the weak force, so are produced via oscillations only.
<UmbralRaptor> Or maybe some gravity weirdness in the early universe.
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<SnoopJeDi> ooh, it's MiniBooNE at Fermilab
<SnoopJeDi> also, ATLAS released results confirming the Higgs interacting with the top quark at > 6 σ
<SnoopJeDi> ouch, these results are at 4.8σ on their own, that's a rough break.
<SnoopJeDi> although this combined significance stuff has been really catching fire since CMS/ATLAS...
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<SnoopJeDi> uh, 4.8 for electron anti-neutrino. Lower for electron neutrinos (4.5)
<SnoopJeDi> "Although the data are fit with a standard oscillation model, other models may provide better fits to the data." rings alarmingly strongly of Neumann's elephant
<bofh> uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhm
<bofh> Yeah I'm not sure I. Yeah.
<SnoopJeDi> #HEP
<bofh> Meanwhile I get pissy b/c someone I've WORKED WITH published a neat result with possibly the most misleading title I've seen outside of a paper I've been asked to review, grr.
<kmath> <Chemjobber> 6/4/89 https://t.co/bX8xf6p8xL
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<kmath> <null_fruit> https://t.co/TXkXUdarnH
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<kmath> <whitequark> "the first board game ever conducted purely over BGP" https://t.co/08nOxPLcHP https://t.co/E98tAO6iJ7
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<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn UmbralRaptor
* Qboid gives UmbralRaptor a doomed neutrino
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn bofh
* Qboid gives bofh a superconducting octopus
<UmbralRaptor> !wpn egg|zzz|egg
* Qboid gives egg|zzz|egg an interpolator
* UmbralRaptor is currently failing to sleep.
* egg|zzz|egg meows at UmbralRaptor
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<egg|zzz|egg> argh my printer is unhappy
<egg|zzz|egg> something something black tmc sensor
<kmath> <colby> As is the case with kids, if you keep your printer active during the day, it will sleep better at night.
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptor: bofh: wait no the inclinations deduced by transit impact parameter are correct if your reference plane is the plane of the sky
<egg|zzz|egg> that's why they all take this reference system
<egg|zzz|egg> (it means the inclinations are all very near π/2 which makes it an unusual reference system but it has that advantage)
<egg|zzz|egg> this was today's episode of "Euler angles work in mysterious ways"
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<awang> Didn't realize that I'd be seeing crackpots on HN
<awang> But in any case, Higgs boson/top quark interactions observed?
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<egg|work|egg> !wpn whitequark
* Qboid gives whitequark a buffered rat
<egg|work|egg> whitequark: do котя et al. eat rats?
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* UmbralRaptor meows at egg, belatedly establishing GDPR compliance.
<UmbralRaptor> awang: Ꚙ_ꚙ
<bofh> I AM A DWARF & I'M DIGGING A HOLE, DIGGY DIGGY HOLE, DIGGY DIGGY HOLE; I AM A DWARF & I'M DIGGING A HOLE, DIGGY DIGGY HOLE, DIGGING A HOLE
<bofh> how do I have this stuck in my head *again* ffs
<egg|work|egg> !wpn bofh
* Qboid gives bofh a trellis buffer
<bofh> !wpn egg|work|egg
* Qboid gives egg|work|egg a strange crayon
* UmbralRaptor waits for the crayon to decay.
<bofh> awang: crackpots on The Orange Website? seems standard for me.
* UmbralRaptor stares at jungle primaries. Why can't you just use instant runoff?
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<egg|work|egg> !u ꡏ
<Qboid> U+A84F PHAGS-PA LETTER MA (ꡏ)
<kmath> <astrobites> Neufeld at #AAS232: A molecular zoo! Nearly 200 interstellar/circumstellar molecules discovered in the past 80 years https://t.co/x5mXE7vB0t
<awang> bofh: Really? I can't remember seeing one before
<awang> Although I've seen references to their papers
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<egg|work|egg> umbralraptor: bofh: spherical trig & stats question: if normal vectors are drawn from the distribution given on page 11, 1st column of https://arxiv.org/pdf/1711.05739.pdf, 1. how are the inclinations and LANs distributed; 2. given fixed inclinations, how are the LANs distributed
<APlayer> Humm, egg, do you happen to know what integrator(s) stock KSP uses for its physics engine?
<egg|work|egg> Forward Euler like anything else that doesn't think about it
<SnoopJeDi> kinda surprising that it's not leapfrog
<egg|work|egg> that's sort of not how physics engines roll
<egg|work|egg> physics engines like having a concept of "here are all the positions and velocities at this time", and having discrete time, so offset position and velocity doesn't trivially fit
<APlayer> And there was this orbital decay issue, was it related to the bad integrator choice?
<egg|work|egg> force is similarly constant by frame (and often not even computed by the engine, so having it nonconstant would mean exposing something much more elaborate), so you get Euler
<SnoopJeDi> egg|work|egg, that makes sense, and gamedev in general is KISS so I guess forward Euler makes the most sense from a design perspective to keep failure surface area small
<egg|work|egg> APlayer: it's not even a choice
<egg|work|egg> SnoopJeDi: doing anything else requires a conceptual leap
<egg|work|egg> there is no such thing as "apply a force to this body now"
<egg|work|egg> that becomes "the force is this function of <whatever>"
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<egg|work|egg> that's massively more complicated and not just how they do things
<SnoopJeDi> err sorry not leapfrog, velocity verlet
<SnoopJeDi> dunno why I always conflate those two
<egg|work|egg> because they are the same
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<egg|work|egg> the more confusing thing is why you insist on not conflating them :-p
<SnoopJeDi> OH, right, velocity Verlet means "do leapfrog" but Verlet by itself doesn't imply that
<egg|work|egg> SnoopJeDi: re "at makes sense, and gamedev in general is KISS so I guess forward Euler makes the most sense from a design perspective to keep failure surface area small", you seem to always have this belief that things this deep are designed rather than the product of meaningful hysterical raisins
<egg|work|egg> https://twitter.com/FioraAeterna/status/954298538833297408 generalizes to things that are not compilers
<kmath> <FioraAeterna> dark secret: at least half the time, the compiler does <X> because nobody wrote any code to make it do something el… https://t.co/x0tleFUrAs
<SnoopJeDi> my belief stands corrected
<SnoopJeDi> anyway, I think I picked up the confusing brain-connection from someone in the plasma simulation world who had a habit of using "Verlet" to refer to velocity Verlet
<egg|work|egg> it doesn't really take a design decision to implement Euler, it's what comes naturally if you say "the user of the game engine does things at fixed steps, sets a force, and it's back to the engine"
<SnoopJeDi> sure, that's stating the obvious
<SnoopJeDi> I guess I see a lack of design as an implicit design decision to stick with whatever "naturally" falls out from working the problem
<SnoopJeDi> and certainly a very common one because it wastes a lot less time
<egg|work|egg> well it's more that once that's how engines work, that's how engines work; the alternative would be a very different beast
<egg|work|egg> compare "the user provides a callback that will be called at implementation-dependent times to compute forces, which may only use a subset of things that are actually being integrated, rather than the whole state of the game"
<SnoopJeDi> you're not wrong
<SnoopJeDi> I'm the last person on the planet who will defend game design as a place of sane architecture
<SnoopJeDi> relatedly: RIP OpenCL
<egg|work|egg> I mean, "the default is 'not designed'" holds everywhere, not just gamedev, not just compilers :-p
<SnoopJeDi> sure
* egg|work|egg pokes UmbralRaptor and bofh in the spherical trig
<SnoopJeDi> I like what Jonathan Blow had to say about this in some YouTube video he uploaded while designing Jai. He was talking about designing "inside-out", starting with dumb naive code and successively raising it into higher abstraction as dictated by the problem
<SnoopJeDi> although "I like what Jonathan Blow had to say..." is a good way to start a fight
<SnoopJeDi> I wonder what integrators Open Dynamics Engine has
<egg|work|egg> it's a physics engine https://www.ode-wiki.org/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:_Rigid_Body_Functions#Mass_and_force
<SnoopJeDi> oh, it looks like they had plans Once Upon a Time for higher-than-first-order integration
<egg|work|egg> yeah "they will come later" for something that profoundly affects the logic is likely to not happen
<SnoopJeDi> certainly not if it doesn't add something substantive to the end use case, which is rare
<egg|work|egg> hm they do have multiple stepping methods though, so maybe it's not designed incompatibly with that at least
<egg|work|egg> nevermind, it's the caller calling the stepper and setting the stepsize so it's the usual deal
<egg|work|egg> I guess you could emulate it by calling the stepper with varying sizes :-p
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<bofh> 17:02:44 <@SnoopJeDi> OH, right, velocity Verlet means "do leapfrog" but Verlet by itself doesn't imply that
<bofh> oh, so *that's* the difference.
* bofh slerps egg|work|egg
<SnoopJeDi> bofh, yea it's a frustrating subtlety that they aren't *super* related
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* TerminalRaptor x_X
<TerminalRaptor> You need to stand in 3 lines in a row to get through the TSA at IAD o_O
<SnoopJeDi> oh gods, IAD
<TerminalRaptor> The last one looks to be quite long.
<TerminalRaptor> SnoopJeDi: well, the other option would be DCA…
<SnoopJeDi> I've flown out of both and DCA felt less crazy, but yea it's not exactly convenient
* TerminalRaptor wishes more airports were like MCI. >_>
<SnoopJeDi> and truthfully I rarely have reason not to fly out of BWI
<TerminalRaptor> (MCI predates security shenanigans, so parking to jetway distance is maybe 200 yards.)
<kmath> <hotrobots> https://t.co/pof3llVii0
<bofh> oh gods I think IAD is prolly the worst airport for security bullshit.
<SnoopJeDi> @hotrobots would be a good name for an Evangelion account
<TerminalRaptor> Uhm
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<bofh> SnoopJeDi: I mean given how fast they move and assuming a normal Earth atmosphere, you're not *wrong*,
<SnoopJeDi> I want to do [that one clashing sound from every mecha ever] but I don't know what to call it other than that
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<egg|phone|egg> !Wpn bofh
* Qboid gives bofh a Darboux tornado
<UmbralRaptop> N-body tornado.
<iximeow> !wpn UmbralRaptop
* Qboid gives UmbralRaptop a Shannon decompressor
<UmbralRaptop> !wpn iximeow
* Qboid gives iximeow a global cell
<UmbralRaptop> I blame Fiora for this. https://photos.app.goo.gl/3EQz9b2hTxNEevca2
<iximeow> is that... the real name?
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<UmbralRaptop> iximeow: it's a restaurant in IAD, so unsure what "real" even means.
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<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptop: !!!
<UmbralRaptop> egg|zzz|egg: IAD→DEN→SAF
<UmbralRaptop> So it's more of a journey into the west.
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptop: ordered a 50,8 mm focuser for 80 mm focuser with a 32 mm reticulated eyepiece
<egg|zzz|egg> & illuminator
<UmbralRaptop> Wait, this is a good style. https://twitter.com/log1kal/status/1004062782885486593
<kmath> <log1kal> @ReinH I prefer Victorian book title style: ⏎ ⏎ Fixes JIRA-2317 ⏎ or ⏎ A treatise on why ternary operators are the devil
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptop: so that's the visual back of the future ANBOfinder hopefully
<UmbralRaptop> egg|zzz|egg: yay
<egg|zzz|egg> UmbralRaptop: 330 mm focal length so that's going to be 10× magnification with 80 mm aperture :-p
<egg|zzz|egg> 7° tFOV
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<UmbralRaptop> 10x80 sounds like those giant binoculars Celestron, et al
<UmbralRaptop> sell
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<bofh> UmbralRaptop: are you heading to LANL or something?
<bofh> (I flew ORD-DEN-SAF last year for that reason)
<UmbralRaptop> bofh: family in Santa Fe, but hopefully visiting LANL also.
<UmbralRaptop> uh, need to turn off now.
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<kmath> <eggleroy> @ManishEarth Hah, I was going to point you to our codebase :-p ⏎ ⏎ Re. the surrounding discussion, if you need example… https://t.co/TqcgxrIY3V
<bofh> egg|trappist|egg: I was waiting for you to notice that thread tbqh :P
<egg|trappist|egg> bofh: going overboard, is such a thing even possible? :-p https://twitter.com/bofh453/status/1004094883546755073
<kmath> <bofh453> A million times this; somehow a lot of math folk don't seem to understand this & go overboard every time, no matter… https://t.co/jyDAq9TwDI
<SnoopJeDi> yup
<egg|trappist|egg> what do you mean making the isomorphism between the naturals and the nonnegative integers is too much,
<SnoopJeDi> bofh, I think it has something to do with whether one recognizes an audience
<egg|trappist|egg> you wouldn't want to confuse SS0 with the equivalence class of (0, SS0), would you,
<egg|trappist|egg> bofh: was it Chevalley who objected to that particular map being implicit
<egg|trappist|egg> I think Serre touches on that in How to write mathematics badly
* SnoopJeDi grows his to-watch list
<e_14159_> So, update: In the latest version of my student's master's thesis, I found three errors. On the title page.
<e_14159_> (I've counted "Does not follow the university formal requirements" as one)
<egg|trappist|egg> e_14159_: not sure mine was much better tbh
<e_14159_> Did you write your advisot's name correctly? Did you have the correct date?
<e_14159_> s/advisot/advisor
<Qboid> e_14159_ meant to say: Did you write your advisor's name correctly? Did you have the correct date?
<egg|trappist|egg> okay that I think I did :-p
<e_14159_> Yeah, you're better.
<egg|trappist|egg> I did initially write it with my own XeTeX style
<e_14159_> Next feedback round will be the third time I correct my own name on the title page :-/
<egg|trappist|egg> (which made it 20 p. shorter because it's way more compact and has figs in the margins)
<egg|trappist|egg> e_14159_: oh.
<e_14159_> In the *margins*?
<e_14159_> Also, why am I e_14159_?
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<SnoopJeDi> marginalia: hardmode
<e_14159> Currently, my plan is to note it in every feedback and, if it's still there in the pre-printing version write it explicitly in an email.
<e_14159> If it's in the printed version, I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Despair?
<egg|trappist|egg> do you physically meet the student?
<egg|trappist|egg> "please write my name on the blackboard"
<e_14159> Once per week. Except for this and next week (because feedback isn't conductive to regular meetings)
<e_14159> Nah, he can write my name (at least first name) perfectly fine in emails.
<e_14159> Btw, the error is in both first and last name.
<egg|trappist|egg> :D
<e_14159> egg|trappist|egg: Cool template. I actually think the figures in margins work well for that; it reminds me of a lecture script.
<e_14159> Supporting the text, essentially.
<egg|trappist|egg> yep
<egg|trappist|egg> inspired by the Feynman lectures actually
<e_14159> Oh, also: The figures (including stuff where you'd normally need subfigures) have clearly been drawn in some drawing program. Why do I know that? Because (a) it uses a different font, and (b) I can still see the background alignment grid because it's apparently *screenshots*
* e_14159 nods
<egg|trappist|egg> aaaaaaaaaaa
<e_14159> Agreed.
<e_14159> I've asked a colleague of mine to review the thesis, because I'm a bit biased against it.
<bofh> 20:23:35 <@egg|trappist|egg> bofh: was it Chevalley who objected to that particular map being implicit
<bofh> That souns familiar
<egg|trappist|egg> bofh: I mean, who in their right mind would say that {} = {{{}}}, or {{}} = {{{{}}}, {{{}}, {}}}
<egg|trappist|egg> (relatedly https://twitter.com/eggleroy/status/839884562826215426 cc whitequark)
<kmath> <eggleroy> *voit un couple* Laquelle d'entre vous est le singleton et laquelle est la paire?
<bofh> ROFL
<bofh> that never gets old
<bofh> https://twitter.com/chordbug/status/1004102416814440448 for that matter, nor does this
<kmath> <chordbug> @mahoushoujorose I still gotta finish this some day: https://t.co/1YO7x2AlTC
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<SnoopJeDi> so, apparently elephants have "acoustic fat" in their feet?
<bofh> https://twitter.com/stephentyrone/status/1004113354258931712 <- egg|trappist|egg I have a canonical transliteration now, courtesy Atlas.
<kmath> <stephentyrone> @whitequark @eggleroy Cheb-dawg.
<egg|trappist|egg> bofh: чеб-собака? чебака? чубака? ... okay, considering his beard,
<bofh> LOL
<egg|trappist|egg> Thomas: I'm trying to load Gregox's SLIPPIST-1 with the latest Kopernicus, and getting nullreference spam in Kopernicus.Components.KopernicusStar.LateUpdate ()
<egg|trappist|egg> Thomas: are you familiar with that one?
<egg|trappist|egg> I think I've seen it already
<egg|trappist|egg> also a dialog which tells me that there was an exception in the loading process
<egg|trappist|egg> Thomas: hm, apparently head is broken in gregox's repo, nevermind
<egg|trappist|egg> whitequark: blarg now i have to comment on a rust rfc >_>
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<egg|trappist|egg> bofh: argh my RFC comment is turning into a weird biography
* UmbralRaptop waves from DEN
<egg|trappist|egg> !wpn UmbralRaptop
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<UmbralRaptop> !wpn egg|trappist|egg
* Qboid gives egg|trappist|egg a clopen hurricane
<bofh> is that, like, a hurricane undergoing an eyewall replacement cycle, or?