raptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Fréchet. We currently target 1.5.1, 1.6.1, and 1.7.x. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
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<discord-_> D​amien. — @Falcon I'm filing NRHOs under 'cool but impractical in KSP'
<discord-_> D​amien. — to get the desired precision in the flight plan it's way too laggy
<discord-_> D​amien. — I wouldn't like to actually perform the chain of orbit types they plan to use irl, or do a rendezvous during one
<discord-_> D​amien. — if you're feeling fancy and want to do something cool, give this a go
<discord-_> D​amien. — using ESL1 to reach the moon with very little if any capture burn
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Damien I see that you are turning into https://twitter.com/eggleroy/status/838756704401641473
<kmath> <eggleroy> <Majiir> I really am imagining egg just drowning in a sea of papers https://t.co/P2iqkDT7CN
<discord-_> D​amien. — yup
<discord-_> D​amien. — the difference is that egg understands more than just the diagrams 😛
<discord-_> D​amien. — using ESL1/2 to reach the moon with very little if any capture burn (edited)
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<discord-_> e​gg. — I should write @Sir Mortimer’s API
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<discord-_> J​oeV. — hello. i am doing a fresh load of RP-1 for 1.8.1. Yes I am following the install guide to a T. I did a test load after step 8, the principia and TestFlight loads, and got the following. I assume this is ok...
<discord-_> J​oeV. — i am parnoid because I went all the way through once and it was bricked, so going step by step...
<discord-_> l​pg. — no, that isn't normal. go to the principia wiki for instructions
<discord-_> l​pg. — no, that isn't normal. go to the principia github wiki for instructions (edited)
<discord-_> J​oeV. — ah... i need to install C++.. sneaky. Is the x64 the right one for a 1 yr old computer?
<discord-_> l​pg. — should be. it's what your screenshot says
<discord-_> J​oeV. — damnit, you're right... i glossed over that. thanks
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<discord-_> h​altwise. — When I run with Principia, it seems to allocate and lose track of an extra several hundred MB of RAM on every scene change. This ends up just going into swap at some point, and only affects performance during the scene change when more old memory is being swapped out to make space, but eventually it grows too big even for swap. What's the best way to troubleshoot? Is there a way to get a dump of w
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<discord-_> J​aSmAn. — does anyone have a suggestion for how I can do maneuver burns when I don't have comms and using Principia?
<discord-_> T​ransparent_Elemental. — turns off commnet or enable partial control when the connection is not present
<discord-_> T​ransparent_Elemental. — both are in the difficulty settings
<discord-_> T​ransparent_Elemental. — turn off commnet or enable partial control when the connection is not present (edited)
<discord-_> D​amien. — that's the one. partial control
<discord-_> D​amien. — @JaSmAnwhen I mentioned having throttle control but not manual attitude control, it's that setting
<discord-_> D​amien. — with throttle control and MJ smartass you're basically the avionics so you can do the burn
<discord-_> T​ransparent_Elemental. — I sometimes feel like we are giving unsatisfying answers when a person asks a question and then never responds😕
<discord-_> D​amien. — maybe we need prettier text with sparkles
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<discord-_> J​aSmAn. — @Transparent_Elemental both great answers! Was AFK; I am grateful for all the help I get in here
<discord-_> J​aSmAn. — > turn off commnet or enable partial control when the connection is not present
<discord-_> J​aSmAn. — @Transparent_Elemental do you know if this can be done in the config (meaning after you've already started a game?)
<discord-_> D​amien. — probably need to to it in settings from the main menu
<discord-_> D​amien. — probably need to do it in settings from the main menu (edited)
<discord-_> D​amien. — or is it in difficulty settings?
<discord-_> D​amien. — can't remember
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<discord-_> D​amien. — in that case it'll be in the space center scene
<discord-_> T​ransparent_Elemental. — @JaSmAn just go into the difficulty settings in the game itself
<discord-_> T​ransparent_Elemental. — though don't turn off commnet and then switch scene/load a save, it will cause a weird interaction between Real Antennas causing your crafts to consume kilowatts of power per second
<discord-_> T​ransparent_Elemental. — either way playing with commnet turned off as a general rule is not how Real Antennas was intended to be played
<discord-_> D​amien. — it's ok, he just doesn't have partial control enabled
<discord-_> D​amien. — no need to mess with commnet
<discord-_> J​aSmAn. — Thanks again - setting I found is under Advanced --> CommNet Options --> "Require Signal for Control" option - I'm guessing this will do it?
<discord-_> D​amien. — yeah, off is partial, on is no control
<discord-_> J​aSmAn. — cool, thanks, will try it!
<discord-_> P​teropodidae. — @haltwise I'd guess attaching a profiler/debugger would be one way to figure out what's going on memory-wise
<discord-_> P​teropodidae. — Also, do said memory issues happen with a Principia-only install, or do you have other mods loaded too?
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<discord-_> h​altwise. — I tried running with a couple memory profiling tools, but they all make the game too slow to even be able to get through a single scene load -- also, to the extent I could get any output, it seems to just say "allocated by mono" which isn't helpful.
<discord-_> M​yshiko. — @JaSmAn you need to use kOS or similar technology for programmable burns
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — If you're doing something like that, you probably want to be using Unity's own profiling tools.
<discord-_> G​ot. — Unity's profiler will likely be useless for Principia anyway, as the bulk of it is in the unmanaged C++ dll
<discord-_> G​ot. — And frankly, finding a (managed) memory leak just by looking at the heap allocations is an exercice in futility, as a memory leak is usually caused by memory *not being deallocated*
<discord-_> G​ot. — Unless the leak is caused by a single really massive allocation event, which is rarely the case, you have no way or knowing if and when an allocation will be GC'ed.
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<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — ... I have misread the channel I was in. ^ What Got said.
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — ~~If you're doing something like that, you probably want to be using Unity's own profiling tools.~~ (edited)
<discord-_> e​gg. — Also we tend to be pretty clean about ownership in C++, so a leak, while possible, seems a bit surprising
<discord-_> e​gg. — Also we tend to be pretty clean about ownership in C++, so a leak there, while possible, seems a bit surprising (edited)
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<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2558: Remove a hack for the masses of the Trappist system now that we can pass UTF-8 strings across the interface - https://git.io/JfnkF
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2558: Remove a hack for the masses of the Trappist system now that we can pass UTF-8 strings across the interface - https://git.io/JfnkF
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±6] https://git.io/JfnAO
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy 9d41a39 - No special casing for Earth and Solar masses.
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy e56cb26 - Merge pull request #2558 from pleroy/Masses Remove a hack for the masses of the Trappist system now that we can pass UTF-8 strings across the interface
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<discord-_> h​altwise. — I can live without Principia and try it again next version, but if there is data collection I can easily do that would result in a useful bug report, I'm happy to do it.
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — hi, is it possible that the CoM offset of RealismOverhaul does not play well with Principia?
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — In the VAB, RCSBuildAid told me that there should not be any torque on my proble, but when I fly it, it starts rotating
<discord-_> D​amien. — it's likely yes, there's a rotation bug in principia
<discord-_> D​amien. — it's likely yes. there's a rotation bug in principia (edited)
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — oh no, what kind of rotation bug?
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — i see, looks a bit different though
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — seems more like the CoM shift is not properly recognized
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2559: New operations related to Rotations - https://git.io/JfnhA
<discord-_> P​teropodidae. — @haltwise There should be a way to get Unity's profiler/debugger set up
<discord-_> P​teropodidae. — That should give you insight into mono's heap
<discord-_> P​teropodidae. — At least on the C# side
<discord-_> P​teropodidae. — Not sure if native memory leaks would show up
<discord-_> P​teropodidae. — Not entirely sure I agree wholly with Got, though
<discord-_> P​teropodidae. — It's going to depend on what Unity's heap explorer is capable of though
<discord-_> P​teropodidae. — It's going to depend on what Unity's memory profiler is capable of though (edited)
<discord-_> P​teropodidae. — It's going to depend on what Unity's memory profiler is capable of (edited)
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<discord-_> e​gg. — @Kobymaru yeah we don’t take CoMoffset into account, please file a bug report, I keep forgetting about that
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<discord-_> h​altwise. — @Pteropodidae I think figuring that out exceeds how much of my break-from-coding I want to spend coding instead of gaming. I'll just try it out again next month.
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<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] fat-lobyte opened issue #2560: Take CoM offset into account - https://git.io/JfcvX
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — Done, thanks!
<discord-_> P​teropodidae. — @haltwise Yeah, that's fair.
<discord-_> e​gg. — @haltwise pleroy was able to reproduce the issue, we are investigating
<discord-_> h​altwise. — Oh, sweet!
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<discord-_> P​teropodidae. — It seems GCC 10 supports Unicode identifiers, if using yet another compiler is something worth considering
<discord-_> e​gg. — good for GCC (finally…) but more compilers is a solution in search of a problem, and a rather complicated one at that :-p
<discord-_> P​teropodidae. — Indeed, I wasn't intending on adding support for another compiler just for the sake of it
<discord-_> P​teropodidae. — Benchmarking it vs. clang could be interesting, but I believe you've said before that the hot paths tend to be hand-coded anyways, so there probably isn't much room for improvements
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin opened pull request #2561: A smoother correction - https://git.io/JfcUO
<discord-_> B​utcher. — @egg what no gcc 2.9.5 compat?
<discord-_> e​gg. — it’s the nineties, go for it
<discord-_> B​utcher. — I remember it hanging around for ages, I think because gcc 3 was a shitshow
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin edited pull request #2561: A smoother correction - https://git.io/JfcUO
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin labeled issue #2560: Take CoM offset into account - https://git.io/JfcvX
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin assigned issue #2560: Take CoM offset into account - https://git.io/JfcvX
<discord-_> e​gg. — @lpg we might have some more testing for you this week-end :-p
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Lpg is testing the 2.95 build? Sweet.
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<discord-_> l​pg. — thanks, now I'm having gcc 2.96rh flashbacks
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<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — egg, what does Principia consider the moment of inertia of a [vessel consisting of a] single part?
<discord-_> e​gg. — the moment of inertia of that part?
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — And that is referenced/determined how?
<discord-_> e​gg. — the moment of inertia of the rigid body of the part
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — Ok. I guess that's the Unity methods/handling then, ie <https://docs.unity3d.com/ScriptReference/Rigidbody.html>
<discord-_> e​gg. — @haltwise do you know which principia version introduced the leak?
<discord-_> e​gg. — we see a leak, but figuring out where it comes from is hard…
<discord-_> e​gg. — if you can figure out which version started leaking (and whether it leaks on save or load, though pleroy suspects load) that might help us
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2559: New operations related to Rotations - https://git.io/JfnhA
<discord-_> h​altwise. — I never used any previous version. It appears to leak on revert-to-launch so I assume that is load only right?
<discord-_> e​gg. — earlier versions are available from the history of the readme https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/commits/master/README.md
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — Hm. That's interesting re: intertial tensor. These are set up in Unity and [gleaned from all of 30 seconds of reading docs] derive their value from the colliders. Makes sense. ... ProcFairings colliders are questionable at best in terms of how they represent the part. But I think folks were showing weird rotation behaviours without any ProcFairings element.
<discord-_> e​gg. — @DRVeyl well, even if the inertia tensor is absurd Unity is using the same as us, so that should not be a source of discrepancies :D
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — Also any symmetry placement should mask any issues, a bit. (Except the weird cases of putting 1 ProcFairingSide part that wraps all the way around...)
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — Ah, good point.
<discord-_> e​gg. — > revert-to-launch so I assume that is load only right?
<discord-_> e​gg. — Dunno, KSP works in mysterious ways
<discord-_> e​gg. — actually now that I think of it I think all loads are immediately followed by a save
<discord-_> e​gg. — so the only way to test that might be to quicksave and see if that leaks
<discord-_> h​altwise. — Quicksave was still super fast, so I think that confirms load
<discord-_> e​gg. — fast is not really the question here, the question is whether memory usage increase
<discord-_> e​gg. — fast is not really the question here, the question is whether memory usage increased (edited)
<discord-_> h​altwise. — Well, allocating new memory was not fast when I was 12gb into swap.
<discord-_> e​gg. — yeah but that is a very messy proxy, lots of things happen on load
<discord-_> h​altwise. — 🤷‍♂️ I can't do any further testing right now, can only tell you what I did observe. I didn't think to watch memory while quicksaving, because it was fast.