raptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Fréchet. We currently target 1.5.1, 1.6.1, and 1.7.x. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
<discord-> e​gg. — yeah MJ will simply not warp at all if it is steering itself to a moving target
<discord-> e​gg. — the target rotates, so the ship rotates, so it can’t warp
<discord-> e​gg. — hmm
<discord-> e​gg. — actually MJ does leave some residual rotation before warping
<discord-> e​gg. — which can be good, because it can mean that it tracks the Frenet frame :D
<discord-> e​gg. — hm 2.2e6 m apogee vs. 2.057 target this time, but then this engine is far too powerful (did 1000 m/s in 11 s), you would not stand a chance by hand
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Is there... some sort of disagreement between MechJeb and Principia??
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. —
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Got a 2000 m/s node planned, got 3985 m/s in the tank. Make the maneuver and end up with less than 100 m/s... what??
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. —
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — I should have finished with roughly 1900 left...
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — What am I doing wrong?
<discord-> T​ransparent_Elemental. — you said you burn manually, where did you read timing when to start the burn? 🤔
<discord-> l​pg. — I'm guessing that navball time is assuming it's done with the currently active engines, the the ones from stage 0
<discord-> l​pg. — I'm guessing that navball time is assuming it's done with the currently active engines, not the ones from stage 0 (edited)
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — > you said you burn manually, where did you read timing when to start the burn? 🤔
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — @Transparent_Elemental I used the total burn time, divided by 2 (which will give X secs). So I start the burn X seconds before the time where the node is placed.
<discord-> T​ransparent_Elemental. — you should *never* do that with principia
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — eg: 60 sec burn, burn 30 secs before t=0s (where node is placed)
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Yeah ok... I only just started playing with it so, still very much learning it!
<discord-> T​ransparent_Elemental. — when creating a maneuver through principia window it will show there when to start the burn
<discord-> T​ransparent_Elemental. — and once you start it it will start a countdown till shutdown
<discord-> l​pg. — that looks like a normal node though, not a flight plan
<discord-> T​ransparent_Elemental. — i honestly don't know how mechjeb would create a *normal* node with principia
<discord-> l​pg. — the way it always don
<discord-> l​pg. — the way it always does (edited)
<discord-> l​pg. — MJ maneuver planner works fine, it's just less accurate
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Well in this case i'm somehow loosing out on 1900 m/s
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — which... well frankly is crazy
<discord-> l​pg. — I'll only repeat it once
<discord-> l​pg. — > I'm guessing that navball time is assuming it's done with the currently active engines, not the ones from stage 0
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — No, that I've never had issues with (unless Principia somehow plays with that)
<discord-> T​ransparent_Elemental. — does the trajectory look right though? and what if you recreate the same node, but not with mechjeb, try using principia window
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Trajectory looks good, yes. This was a simple burn at perigee, increase apogee value. Toggling the ''show patch conics'' gave exactly what you would expect
<discord-> l​pg. — second guess, your staging is weird and MJ is getting confused
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — I always set the nodes prior to switching to my ulage engines, specifically for what you just mentioned.
<discord-> l​pg. — because MJ is expecting you to stage all those stages before you can have 4km/s
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — I've done this countless times. BUT, this is really the first time I fool around using Principia, so I'm most likely doing somethign wrong
<discord-> l​pg. — we can only work off of the one screenshot you've given. something is dumping something like 2/3 of your mass between stage 1 and 0
<discord-> T​ransparent_Elemental. — you should try recreating the same node using principia window and seeing whether that brings a different result
<discord-> l​pg. — make that 1/3
<discord-> l​pg. — flight planner's going to have just as much trouble with extra stages that will be used in unknowable ways
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — There are any extra stages. All that's there are 2x RL-10s and enough hydrolox to produce 3900 m/s. I need 2000 for my maneuver (apparently, if MJ is to be trusted here).
<discord-> T​ransparent_Elemental. — it has "active engine" button which should help *I hope*, assuming those extra engines are used only for ullage it shouldn't cause much of a trajectory change
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — That's it. There are 8x small 0.5kN engines used strictly for ullage.
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — The burn is performed entirely with the RL-10s. Once at 20 000km, payloads (which include solid kick stages) are deployed. But they're not used for the burn to 20 000km.
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Guess I'll go back and read through the wiki! I must be doing something wrong here.
<discord-> l​pg. — see MJ thinks you're going to deploy the payload _before_ the burn
<discord-> l​pg. — hence the higher dv number
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Ah! Yep... there it is... MJ royaly screwed up the DV values. Switched out the order of things and the DV values completely changed... god... MJ... why?
<discord-> l​pg. — J does what you tell it to do
<discord-> l​pg. — MJ does what you tell it to do (edited)
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — It still shouldn't have combined the kick stage DV with the Centaur DV... I have no idea why it would do that the way I had it staged.
<discord-> l​pg. — because your root part isn't on the payload
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — That's probably why, yeah, come to think of it.
<discord-> l​pg. — MJ looks at your vessel, sees a bunch of stages it can stage to dump dead weight before burning
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — That's actually the case for this one payload (which is something I never really do). And come to think of it, that's right, it does do that in that case. I knew that...
<discord-> C​alvin_Maclure. — Yeah that makes perfect sense come to think of it. You're bang on.
<discord-> l​amont. — well think i've got a replication of the launchtoplane not firing in principia
<discord-> e​gg. — I thought that was just a question of low lunar inclination?
<discord-> l​amont. — "someone" made target orbits wobble and change LANs every tick...
<discord-> e​gg. — :-p
<discord-> l​amont. — every tick its going "OMG you changed the target conditions! abort and recompute!"
<discord-> e​gg. — hahaha
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<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] scimas edited a comment on issue #2519: Spin-up on reentry under physics warp with FAR - https://git.io/JfEsL
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] nikolain commented on issue #2519: Spin-up on reentry under physics warp with FAR - https://git.io/JfEWk
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] nikolain deleted a comment on issue #2519: Spin-up on reentry under physics warp with FAR - https://git.io/JfEWk
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Myshiko commented on issue #2519: Spin-up on reentry under physics warp with FAR - https://git.io/JfEWZ
<discord-> M​yshiko. — @egg I’ve finally finished testing TEST2574 build. Looks actually very good so far: spin ups gone, jerkiness and jumps in orientation gone. All changes are properly smooth.
<discord-> M​yshiko. — Complete results are in the issue #2519
<discord-> l​amont. — - node executor + launchtoplane fixes + new launchtolan function to match LANs to the Moon but with arbitrary inclination
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<discord-> S​tandecco. — well, time to play with principia for the rest of my days
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — Good luck
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] vladtcvs opened issue #2578: Hide periapsises/apoapsises and ascending/descending nodes - https://git.io/JfEVc
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] vladtcvs opened issue #2579: Staging in flight plan - https://git.io/JfEV1
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] vladtcvs opened issue #2580: Please add build instructions for linux - https://git.io/JfErh
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] vladtcvs opened issue #2581: Change reference body or kicked out moons - https://git.io/JfEiA
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<discord-> J​aSmAn. — can you remove Principia from an install and still play a save you had with Principia installed?
<discord-> D​amien. — yes
<discord-> J​aSmAn. — is there a new version of Principia (in the last 10 days)?
<discord-> D​amien. — test version yes, release version no
<discord-> J​aSmAn. — I'm getting very weird issues - for example - when switching from "m" to vessel view with principia open everything is black
<discord-> D​amien. — that doesn't sound like principia tbh
<discord-> J​aSmAn. — and it seems that after I do a flight plan everything goes incredibly slow
<discord-> J​aSmAn. — I know, just that it only happens with Principia open (the UI)
<discord-> D​amien. — if the flight plan is long duration/low tolerance/high steps that is normal
<discord-> J​aSmAn. — so i want to test without it
<discord-> D​amien. — yeah just move the folder out of gamedata and test
<discord-> J​aSmAn. — not overly long, just a 3 day trip to the moon
<discord-> J​aSmAn. — I will, thanks
<discord-> D​amien. — save before you do, because things may be in slightly different orbits
<discord-> D​amien. — you can reload your save when you readd principia and it'll be fine
<discord-> D​amien. — you can reload your save when you re-add principia and it'll be fine (edited)
<discord-> J​aSmAn. — thanks, don't have too many things up at the moment
<discord-> J​aSmAn. — guess there's a MJ dev update too
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<discord-> D​amien. — not sure but I know some stuff's been discussed. just no idea if it's available to test
<discord-> J​aSmAn. — there's a MJ update on Ckan, will try it
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<discord-> J​aSmAn. — So I ran the test and I can't say for certain but I think the issue (see above issue when switching between map and vessel view) was related to Principia because now that I've removed it I no longer have the issue.
<discord-> _​felixu_. — What Principia version is meant to be used for no fairing/rotation issues?
<discord-> _​felixu_. — Or do I need to wait for a release that fixes all the problems, and if so, how far off is it?
<discord-> D​amien. — there's a test version linked on the github
<discord-> D​amien. — in the issue relating to the rotation bug
<discord-> D​amien. — don't complain if it doesn't work right though, it's a test version
<discord-> _​felixu_. — Wasn't there a previous version for 1.8.1 without rotation problems?
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<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy commented on issue #2581: Change reference body or kicked out moons - https://git.io/JfEhJ
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy closed issue #2581: Change reference body or kicked out moons - https://git.io/JfEiA
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy labeled issue #2581: Change reference body or kicked out moons - https://git.io/JfEiA
<discord-> D​amien. — yeah
<discord-> D​amien. — check the changelog and download the version before it was added
<discord-> D​amien. — the latest test version I believe fixes rotation so all being well it'll be in the next release
<discord-> l​pg. — frenet didn't have conservation of angular momentum, so didn't have any of the associated issues. however downgraded isn't supported
<discord-> l​pg. — frenet didn't have conservation of angular momentum, so didn't have any of the associated issues. however downgrading isn't supported (edited)
<discord-> l​pg. — frenet didn't have conservation of angular momentum, so didn't have any of the associated issues. however downgrading to it isn't supported (edited)
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<discord-> _​felixu_. — Ahh
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<discord-> _​felixu_. — Is the test version supported? Or if not, how far out? PC parts are arriving by the weekend
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — @egg ```
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — [LOG 19:46:24.106] [KerCon] Principia.GetUniverseEvaluator Principia detected, instantiating principias universe evaluator
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — [LOG 19:46:24.215] [KerCon] PrincipiaEvaluator.GetBodyPosition Principia says body Kerbin is at [8472765184.69577, -43381.0808211891, -10648712735.6784]
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — ```
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — looks good 🙂
<discord-> D​amien. — @_felixu_ It's supported in the sense of if you notice something broken egg would like to know about it and will likely fix it.
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<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — @egg i have trouble calling `VesselGetPosition` and am suspecting that the Guid string I pass is invalid.
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — I pass `vessel.id.ToString()` (which looks like `98b3fa16-e425-4198-ae59-66e3b57c88c7`, and that makes it so angry that it starts throwing things at me:
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. —
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — ```
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Specified argument was out of the range of valid values.
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — Parameter name: OUT_OF_RANGE
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — principia.ksp_plugin_adapter.ExternalInterface.ThrowOnError (principia.ksp_plugin_adapter.Status status) (at <74487595975740dc8e079308ee697cbb>:0)
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — principia.ksp_plugin_adapter.ExternalInterface.VesselGetPosition (System.String vessel_guid, System.Double time) (at <74487595975740dc8e079308ee697cbb>:0)
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — ```
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — @egg i have trouble calling `VesselGetPosition` and am suspecting that the Guid string I pass is invalid.
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — I pass `vessel.id.ToString()` (which looks like `98b3fa16-e425-4198-ae59-66e3b57c88c7`), and that makes it so angry that it starts throwing things at me:
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. —
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — ```
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Specified argument was out of the range of valid values.
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — Parameter name: OUT_OF_RANGE
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — principia.ksp_plugin_adapter.ExternalInterface.ThrowOnError (principia.ksp_plugin_adapter.Status status) (at <74487595975740dc8e079308ee697cbb>:0)
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — principia.ksp_plugin_adapter.ExternalInterface.VesselGetPosition (System.String vessel_guid, System.Double time) (at <74487595975740dc8e079308ee697cbb>:0)
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — ``` (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — @Sir Mortimer is your vessel in space?
<discord-> e​gg. — oh wait, out of range? what t do you pass
<discord-> e​gg. — you can look at the principia error logs to see the actual error message (we should probably bring that into the exception but it is a little messy)
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — Ok, gimme an hour
<discord-> e​gg. — out of range sounds like you pass a time in the future or in the overly distant past
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<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — hm. `E0518 20:11:48.739890 377357760 interface_body.hpp:454] |time| +0.00000000000000000e+00 s does not lie within the domain [+5.89400000000036144e+01 s, +1.36119999999995827e+02 s] of the psychohistory of SunnySat (98b3fa16-e425-4198-ae59-66e3b57c88c7)`
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — ```
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — [LOG 21:33:40.913] [KerCon] Principia.GetUniverseEvaluator Principia detected, instantiating principias universe evaluator
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — [LOG 21:33:40.954] [KerCon] PrincipiaEvaluator.GetBodyPosition Looking for body Kerbin
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — [LOG 21:33:40.958] [KerCon] PrincipiaEvaluator.GetBodyPosition Principia says body Kerbin is at [8321298377.30594, -43384.3698487282, -10767489096.8419]
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — [LOG 21:33:40.959] [KerCon] PrincipiaEvaluator.GetVesselPosition Looking for vessel SunnySat (unloaded) 98b3fa16-e425-4198-ae59-66e3b57c88c7
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — [LOG 21:33:40.971] [KerCon] PrincipiaEvaluator.GetVesselPosition Principia says vessel SunnySat (unloaded) is at [8320754944.96892, -43384.3698607711, -10767069207.8619]
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — [LOG 21:33:40.972] [KerCon] KerbalismContracts.UpdateSunObservationStatus Solar surface observation for The Sun^N: 47.00%
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — ```
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — <-- happy 🙂
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] GenocidalTeacup starred Principia - https://git.io/JfuTx
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — now I spinned up my solar probe just to see those rotations
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — I'm in love
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — this is so cool
<discord-> _​felixu_. — @Sir Mortimer you're in love with Principia rotation in general or the rotation fix?
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy labeled issue #2580: Please add build instructions for linux - https://git.io/JfErh
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy commented on issue #2580: Please add build instructions for linux - https://git.io/JfuIq
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — the rotation thing is new to me, haven't been running principia for a while now for obvious reasons
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — now that I'm running it again it's like meeting an old friend
<discord-> S​ir Mortimer. — low energy transfers, fancy slingshots, new things to try out... 🙂
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<discord-> _​felixu_. — Ah okay, which release, the pr fix?
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<discord-> e​gg. — @Sir Mortimer yeah it looks like you were looking up the position of the vessel at game creation, but the vessel only started existing after the start of the game (58.94 s after the start of the game apparently) so its psychohistory does not go further back than that
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