raptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Fréchet. We currently target 1.5.1, 1.6.1, and 1.7.x. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
<discord-_> e​gg. — @neph @lpg shiny new test builds for you
<discord-_> l​pg. — noted
<discord-_> e​gg. — @sarbian GCMonitor works fine on 1.6.1 so I guess the 1.8 update is what broke finally your 1.4 build
<discord-_> e​gg. — Maybe I should just get a computer that can run RSS here
<discord-_> e​gg. — @lpg also can you try the same cube in the upper atmosphere of Jupiter, at the same speed and pressure?
<discord-_> l​pg. — er. I have no idea whether those conditions can exist. (if that's the joke, good one)
<discord-_> e​gg. — @lpg well, surely there is some altitude at which the pressure is the same, and then it is a matter of controlling the speed, which you could do with engines prior to jettisoning the cube or something?
<discord-_> e​gg. — (alternatively, just look at a reentry at the same dynamic pressure, but same speed & pressure might eliminate more sources of confusion)
<discord-_> e​gg. — the hypothesis I am looking to test with a Jupiter test is whether this is some single-precision intermediate calculation involving the centre of the planet
<discord-_> e​gg. — (in which case we should see metres on Jupiter where we see decimetres on Venus)
<discord-_> e​gg. — (the hypothesis we are looking to test with the test build we sent you btw is that some of the issue is due to the discontinuities of the Fubini correction)
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<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] ArrowMaxGithub commented on issue #2562: KSP 1.8.1 - Aerodynamic issue with Principia and FAR - https://git.io/JfCWg
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy closed issue #2534: Miscellaneous geometry utilities - https://git.io/JfJa3
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy pushed 4 commits to master [+0/-0/±10] https://git.io/JfCzX
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy cb1d577 - Equality of rotations.
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy 9d8e77e - Axis and angle.
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy 7e7eacd - Lint.
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy deae2cf - Merge pull request #2559 from pleroy/2534 New operations related to Rotations
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2559: New operations related to Rotations - https://git.io/JfnhA
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2563: Checks and cleanups added while investigating a purported leak - https://git.io/JfCzd
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4267/
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4267/
<discord-_> B​utcher. — @egg You don't need much of a computer with low res textures.
<discord-_> D​amien. — Yeah rss runs better than stock does
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<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2563: Checks and cleanups added while investigating a purported leak - https://git.io/JfCzd
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — sorry for the noob question but I can't find the builds of older Principia versions
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — the source code for the releases is on GitHub but the build process was somewhat... "involved", last time I checked
<discord-_> e​gg. — check the history of the Readme file
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — got em, thanks
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — So what are you guys gonna do after the Z-Physicists?
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — Go back to A?
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — and how do you decide how many you want to do per letter
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — @egg Fairings still get stuck with frobenius
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — checking frenet now
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2563: Checks and cleanups added while investigating a purported leak - https://git.io/JfCzd
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±12] https://git.io/JfC6D
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy f7002b2 - Cleanups and checks.
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy 82fbd97 - Merge branch 'master' into PossibleLeak
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy 48f2466 - Merge pull request #2563 from pleroy/PossibleLeak Checks and cleanups added while investigating a purported leak
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — so that's definitely not save-compatible with Fubini 😉
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — Fairing deployment summary:
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — - Works in Frenet
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — - Broken in Frobenius
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — - Broken in Fubini
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — - Broken in TEST2550
<discord-_> e​gg. — ok…
<discord-_> e​gg. — I’d say send us your save, but it’s an RSS setup so this is going to be a mess… Can you zip and send me your gamedata via google drive or something ?
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — I can send you the save if we agree on acceptabl emods
<discord-_> e​gg. — that is going to take hours of setup, so it is not going to work
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — Procedural Fairings, Procedural Parts and RealismOverhaul should be enough
<discord-_> e​gg. — and RSS I suppose ?
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — my GameData folder is 7 Gigabytes in size :/
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — > and RSS I suppose ?
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — @egg correct
<discord-_> e​gg. — can you check that you can actually reproduce the bug with a new install that only has those mods ?
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — OK, but it's gonna take me a while
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — or not
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — I could reproduce it in stock+principia+realismoverhaul
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — I could reproduce it in stock+principia+procedural fairings (edited)
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — Procedural Fairings in Orbit
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — just install procedural fairings (and nothing else), load up this save and stage
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — compare with and without principia
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — craft is a sputnik, a tank, procfairings and fairing base. So about as minimal as it gets
<discord-_> e​gg. — it does AddForce on the RB rather than the part, that is ignored by Principia
<discord-_> e​gg. — now it is ignored more, but it probably had problems for a long time already
<discord-_> e​gg. — PF bug
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — interesting
<discord-_> e​gg. — cc @siimav or whoever maintains that these days
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — all I know is it worked in older Principia versions and without principia. That's why i thought its a principia bug
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — I'd create an issue for it, but you have more insight into what's going wrong
<discord-_> e​gg. — it probably worked differently from stock in older Principia
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Kobymaru try recompiling PF by changing the part.rigidbody.Add{Force,Torque}
<discord-_> e​gg. — to part.Add{Force,Torque}
<discord-_> e​gg. — and see if that fixes the issue
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — I'll be damned
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — it does
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — I'll try the fix with my RO install
<discord-_> e​gg. — woohoo I understand *something*
<discord-_> e​gg. — I still have no idea what to do about most of #2519, but at least we have this
<discord-_> e​gg. — \o/
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — that makes one of us 😅 I thought everything's a rigidbody, so I don't see the difference between adding a force to a part and to its rigidbody
<discord-_> e​gg. — nono, there is a very important difference
<discord-_> e​gg. — KSP has a mechanism to register all forces that you apply
<discord-_> e​gg. — aiui this mostly exists because it is a feature request I made to @NathanKell a long time ago
<discord-_> e​gg. — and we use that to compute net forces on the vessel
<discord-_> e​gg. — (and net torques, now)
<discord-_> e​gg. — so internal forces (collisions, springs, etc.) are dealt with by the physics engine, we don’t see them, we don’t care about them
<discord-_> e​gg. — in particular if they don’t quite balance, it’s not a problem
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — OK, I think I understand now
<discord-_> e​gg. — we will ignore the net effect of the things we don’t know about
<discord-_> e​gg. — but if you use rigidbody.addforce, you effectively make your force internal rather than net for Principia
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — makes sense
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — probably not so easy to route all the mods forces through the proper mechanism
<discord-_> e​gg. — it is a fairly drop-in replacement so it tends to be easy to get mods to do the right thing, I remember telling @ferram4 to switch to that a while back and the next release had it
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — kk
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — yip, still stages off beautifully in RO
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — so how do we get this upstream? Do we summon the mighty @siimav ? PR from me, PR from you?
<discord-_> e​gg. — PR from you
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — I would prefer to not do a PR because I have no idea what I changed besides your explanation, so I can't even answer questions
<discord-_> e​gg. — I can add explanations
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — fair enough
<discord-_> e​gg. — but since you wrote the code anyway, and you are the one who tested, that saves some time and makes me less nervous than blindly changing code
<discord-_> e​gg. — I might be able to merge the PR, I forget what my powers are, but we will need @DRVeyl or @siimav to do a release
<discord-_> e​gg. — looks like there are two branches with @DRVeyl working on a rework
<discord-_> e​gg. — we’d likely want to fix both, this is a small low-risk fix
<discord-_> e​gg. — the rework branch is heavily restructured though so you will likely have to write the patches independently for both branches
<discord-_> e​gg. — (and so thus you will want two PRs, one into master and one into rework)
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — I mean it's really just a 2 line change
<discord-_> e​gg. — it is
<discord-_> e​gg. — and each line it consists only in removing 10 characters
<discord-_> e​gg. — looks like I have summoned @DRVeyl
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — If you want, you can just PR to master and I can do the equivalent in rework.
<discord-_> e​gg. — OK
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Kobymaru then one PR it is
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — no to recompiling the DLL though, correct?
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — Might pull one or two things over and I guess make a release. It'll also fix folks having issues with some reflections.
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — Correct, don't recompile.
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — Done: https://github.com/KSP-RO/ProceduralFairings/pull/13
<discord-_> e​gg. — looks like I have merging powers !
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Kobymaru have you checked that there are no other AddForce/AddTorque in the codebase?
<discord-_> e​gg. — hmmmm
<discord-_> e​gg. — , ForceMode.VelocityChange
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — nope, should've done that sorry
<discord-_> e​gg. — removing that might change the semantics
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — well the part.AddForce method doesn't take it as a parameter
<discord-_> e​gg. — yeah, we have to turn it into an actual force I think
<discord-_> e​gg. — but we can’t just give a velocity to something that expects a force, that seems wrong
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — weirdly enough, those were the only two instances of AddForce and AddTorque in the repo
<discord-_> e​gg. — ok, good
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — ForceMode.VelocityChange:
<discord-_> K​obymaru. —
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — Apply the velocity change instantly with a single function call. In contrast to ForceMode.Impulse, VelocityChange will change the velocity of every rigidbody the same way regardless of differences in mass.
<discord-_> e​gg. — yeah it changes the type of the first argument essentially
<discord-_> e​gg. — that becomes a ∆v rather than a force
<discord-_> e​gg. — @DRVeyl do we have the ∆t at hand? I forget where that lives in the non-Principia world
<discord-_> d​kavolis. — There's `Part.AddImpulse`
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — I mean we have the forceVector right there
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — Time.deltaTime, I think, let me check. (Haven't made it off my phone yet)
<discord-_> d​kavolis. — `TimeWarp.fixedDeltaTime`
<discord-_> e​gg. — thanks
<discord-_> e​gg. — oh, there is a `Part.AddImpulse`? interesting
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — what if we just add the forceVector without the whole `Mathf.Lerp (ejectionLowDv, ejectionDv, ejectionPower)` shebang
<discord-_> e​gg. — nononono
<discord-_> e​gg. — that is a direction
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — oh yeah indeed
<discord-_> e​gg. — the lerp thingy is because this is all intended to be based on Δv
<discord-_> e​gg. — Hmmmm, TIL `Part.AddImpulse`
<discord-_> e​gg. — let me double-check what it deas
<discord-_> e​gg. — let me double-check what it does/ (edited)
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — Please keep the lerp. And that's a scaling factor for the impulse that the user controls
<discord-_> e​gg. — (using tea leaves)
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — so what do I replace AddTorque with then?
<discord-_> d​kavolis. — @egg `RigidBodyPart.force += vec / TimeWarp.fixedDeltaTime`
<discord-_> e​gg. — Part.AddImpulse just wraps—yup
<discord-_> e​gg. — right, but it is an impulse, a Δp, not a Δv
<discord-_> e​gg. — so we would still need to multiply by the mass
<discord-_> e​gg. — things are more annoying for AddTorque, there we have to do it all ourselves.
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — does this make any sense:
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — ```
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — part.AddTorque(tr.TransformDirection (torqueVector) * Mathf.Lerp (ejectionLowTorque, ejectionTorque, torqueAmount) / TimeWarp.fixedDeltaTime * part.mass);
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — ```
<discord-_> e​gg. — no it does not but let me just comment
<discord-_> e​gg. — (you need to use the inertia tensor which comes in a rather inconvenient form in Unity)
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — it's been a while since I have physic'ed
<discord-_> d​kavolis. — You will probably want to multiply element-wise with `part.rb.inertiaTensor` instead of mass, maybe scaled by `part.mass/part.rb.mass` as well
<discord-_> e​gg. — @dkavolis yeah but there is the inertiaTensorRotation as well which is fun
<discord-_> e​gg. — drafting a comment on the PR
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — > scaled by `part.mass/part.rb.mass` as well
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — @dkavolis
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — What the heck... Unity is fun.
<discord-_> e​gg. — No I don’t think you want to involve the mass
<discord-_> e​gg. — but you need to deal with the inertiaTensorRotation, because inertiaTensor is diagonalized using it
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — I have to go shopping real quick (shops close soon), but I'll work in your comment later
<discord-_> e​gg. — sounds good
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — I have little confidence in myself to get the rotation quaternions and inertia tensors right 😉
<discord-_> e​gg. — yeah this one is very tricky
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — I'd wonder if it would be better/easier to specify part.AddForceAtPosition. But PF wanted to let the user specify both ejection dV and ... resulting torque.
<discord-_> e​gg. — not torque, change in angular velocity
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — Oi, yes, I see.
<discord-_> e​gg. — @DRVeyl But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over lots of Principia development https://github.com/KSP-RO/ProceduralFairings/pull/13#discussion_r422499352
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — Being a *Taken* fan, appreciate the reference.
<discord-_> e​gg. — (in Principia all those Vector3s and both Quaternions would have different types because when we started seeing the sort of bookkeeping we needed to do to remain sane we typed reference frames)
<discord-_> e​gg. — (but this not being the Principia codebase, I am using verbose identifiers in a last-ditch attempt at retaining sanity)
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — Reasonable.
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — And I'd be willing to wager that the folks writing the original PF code, had they needed to write something like in your PR instead of being able to just tell the rigidBody to add velocity, would have opted for just specifying force scalars 😉
<discord-_> e​gg. — :D
<discord-_> e​gg. — pleroy is rereading that code, and at the 4th line found a rotation application order error (which Principia libraries would have caught)
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] lpgagnon commented on issue #2519: Spin-up on reentry under physics warp with FAR - https://git.io/JfC9R
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — damn, thats a wild ride..
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — > not torque, change in angular velocity
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — @egg In the code maybe, but the User Interface specifically says "Ejection Torque"
<discord-_> e​gg. — the UI is full of lies, news at 11
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — judging by the fact that the slider goes until 1, it's more like "ratio to maximum torque"
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — well we can un-make it a lie
<discord-_> e​gg. — yes but that is a separate problem
<discord-_> e​gg. — we need to replicate the existing behaviour for now, for compatibility with existing configs
<discord-_> e​gg. — the mad code has now been reviewed, so try it out  :D
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — i hope you're OK with me replacing the unicode characters. I know you pride yourself with them in Principia, but in general I am very apprehensive about everything that's not ASCII
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — it's just asking for trouble from compilers, editors, platforms, websites, ...
<discord-_> e​gg. — it is going to make this code harder to read
<discord-_> e​gg. — and it is already not great
<discord-_> e​gg. — just copy-paste what I gave you
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — That's exactly what I'm talking about
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Kobymaru save with other encoding, UTF-8
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — The slider is the scaling factor between the min and max ejection... uh... thing. dV or d(U+03C9).
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — it's not t
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — > @Kobymaru save with other encoding, UTF-8
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — @egg it's not that I can't save it, I just think its not a good idea
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Kobymaru dealing with that kind of nonsense is literally my job, I work in I18N
<discord-_> e​gg. — I am not going to take any of that nonsense in my hobbies
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — oh that explains things, lol
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — I'm neutral, but you'll have to hash it out with the ProceduralFairings maintainers
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — There aren't any.
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — Or maybe it's me.
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Kobymaru I have commit powers on that repo, and I am telling you what to do
<discord-_> e​gg. — 🥚 🌩️
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — Or maybe it's egg 😉
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — 👍
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — sorry for being conservative, it's just that a few years of being egg-less and burned by the weirdest bugs and errors relating to non-ASCII characters have made me a bit jaded
<discord-_> e​gg. — http://xn--bb-eka.at/
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — wow that URL
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — thanks to people like you, just typing "öbb.at" into my browser gets me there
<discord-_> e​gg. — indeed
<discord-_> e​gg. — even though the underlying protocol did not support it
<discord-_> e​gg. — because öbb becomes xn--bb-eka :D :D
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — were you involved there? I though you live in switzerland
<discord-_> e​gg. — nah, I was not involved in any of this, but I am familiar with punycode and this is a classic example of a domain that uses it
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — kk
<discord-_> e​gg. — also http://президент.рф is another classic
<discord-_> e​gg. — (Discord is bad at rendering URLs, this should show up as президент.рф)
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — i see
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — how do you even type those things in practice?
<discord-_> e​gg. — you do not
<discord-_> e​gg. — I type `http://http://президент.рф`, and systems encode it for you
<discord-_> e​gg. — I type `http://президент.рф`, and systems encode it for you (edited)
<discord-_> e​gg. — (or `öbb.at`)
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — like how do *you* type Δ when you're coding or chatting
<discord-_> e​gg. — ah
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — because I have to copy-paste your code
<discord-_> e​gg. — I have a bunch of keyboard layouts installed, I shift with windows+space or shift+alt
<discord-_> e​gg. — including a sumero-akkadian cuneiform one that I made recently
<discord-_> e​gg. — 𒉭
<discord-_> e​gg. — I have a bunch of keyboard layouts installed, I switch with windows+space or shift+alt (edited)
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — So short of setting up unique keyboard shortcuts or installing layouts and learning them, when I want to add your new omega symbol to a debug output in ProcFairings, what would I reasonably do besides have to copy-and-paste the variable name?
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — i think those are your two options
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — (Read, I've so far failed to add U+03C9 to this chat also 😉 )
<discord-_> e​gg. — copy-paste is a good option for sporadic use like that
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — btw since when does the cheat menu for setting the orbit work with principia installed?
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — Code looks good with principia, trying without
<discord-_> e​gg. — it only does if you also hack gravity
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — (I've so far failed to add U+03C9 to this chat also 😉 ) (edited)
<discord-_> e​gg. — (or from the launchpad)
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — ah
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — yeah it was the launchpad
<discord-_> e​gg. — (if principia does not know about the vessel, it does not have any opinions on where it should be)
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — so could there be a workaround for going to other planets with the KRASH simulation?
<discord-_> l​pg. — ? krash has no difficulty going to other planets
<discord-_> l​pg. — (though there _are_ some oddities once it's there)
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — Yeah... last time I tried, the ground was moving VERY fast compared to what my velocity indicator said
<discord-_> l​pg. — yeah that's one of the oddities
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — also the rotation was all screwed up
<discord-_> e​gg. — yeah I am not sure what KRASH does but I don’t think I want to look into it
<discord-_> l​pg. — I _think_ turning Hack Gravity on&off does fix those
<discord-_> e​gg. — I should eat tea
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — > I _think_ turning Hack Gravity on&off does fix those
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — @lpg on/off when?
<discord-_> l​pg. — once you're around the target body
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — hm, I should try that
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — making lander probes is just really annoying without being able to simulate
<discord-_> l​pg. — I had found that switching to a different vessel & back helped, but that's pain
<discord-_> l​pg. — And since I started using Hack Gravity to re-shape my orbits, I haven't noticed those issues. Didn't do any exhaustive testing though
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — ffs NVIDIA geforce experience... I need Alt-F9
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — so what does it do, hide the vessel to principia and show it to principia again?
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — OK, so visual studio ate the unicode, fix looks good both with and without principia
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — I'll ammend my commit and make the PR ready for review
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — done, please review and merge
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — and I guess somebody besides me should try it out as well... I think I got it this time, but I have been known to do the old "oops, wrong file" switcheroo
<discord-_> e​gg. — well, the Principia UI is very good at reminding you that it exists :D
<discord-_> e​gg. — but I guess I can check with your save
<discord-_> e​gg. — argh but I would have to compile at your branch
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — I could send the DLL but that half defeats the point of checking
<discord-_> e​gg. — probably better than not checking at all though
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — did you verify the issue in the first place?
<discord-_> e​gg. — not yet, will do so
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — Procedural Fairings DLL with Principia Fix
<discord-_> e​gg. — but first: tea
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — with teb?
<discord-_> e​gg. — sounds a bit too hot
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — and spicy
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Kobymaru also pleroy has some nitpicking for your PR :D
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — well that's why I'm wondering if the total amount of work could've been reduced if you just did it yourself 😉
<discord-_> e​gg. — it is better to have more pairs of eyes :D
<discord-_> e​gg. — and also it meant I could keep poking at 2519 in the meantime
<discord-_> e​gg. — it is better to have more pairs of eyes ꙮꙮ (edited)
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — I gotta say I agree with him, that second line of whitespace is hideous. I'm ashamed of myself 😉
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<discord-_> s​iimav. — `ejectionDv`
<discord-_> s​iimav. — `Δv`
<discord-_> s​iimav. — pick 1
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<discord-_> K​obymaru. — I'll just search-replace all `d`'s for `Δ`'s
<discord-_> e​gg. — D perhaps?
<discord-_> e​gg. — since that seems to be the surrounding style
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<discord-_> e​gg. — (not a fan of the practice of force-pushing the branch every time to make it one commit, that makes it tricky to see the changes resulting from each round of review)
<discord-_> s​iimav. — Yeah, just go with dv
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — OK, I'll stop the force-pushing
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — I just don't see that much value in having fixup commits like this in the history
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] lpgagnon commented on issue #2519: Spin-up on reentry under physics warp with FAR - https://git.io/JfC77
<discord-_> e​gg. — well it’s interesting to understand why a specific change was made sometimes, and if you can trace it to a reviewer comment it’s easier than « chonk change »
<discord-_> e​gg. — but practices vary by project, e.g. ICU does the one-commit-pull-request thing
<discord-_> l​pg. — You can always squash before merging, to keep the history clean
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — Δω and ΔL remain unchanged?
<discord-_> e​gg. — I guess for style consistency dω, dL
<discord-_> e​gg. — @lpg or you can keep the gory details forever, to keep the graph entertaining :D
<discord-_> D​RVeyl. — We will squash and merge. So you can make your commit history in the PR ugly.
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — unless you guys have more suggestions, it would be ready to merge
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — but to repeat, somebody besides me should probably check this
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — but to repeat, somebody besides me should probably testthis (edited)
<discord-_> e​gg. — yeah I am checking
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — but to repeat, somebody besides me should probably test this (edited)
<discord-_> S​ir Mortimer. — wuss. push it, release it, users will do the testing. that's the way software development is done!
<discord-_> e​gg. — hey we’re not at work here
<discord-_> S​ir Mortimer. — oh, right. my bad 😛
<discord-_> S​ir Mortimer. — So... I made something.
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin commented on issue #2519: Spin-up on reentry under physics warp with FAR - https://git.io/JfC5Z
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin edited a comment on issue #2519: Spin-up on reentry under physics warp with FAR - https://git.io/JfC5Z
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin edited a comment on issue #2519: Spin-up on reentry under physics warp with FAR - https://git.io/JfC5Z
<discord-_> P​teropodidae. — Is `git bisect` ever useful for the Principia codebase?
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin edited a comment on issue #2519: Spin-up on reentry under physics warp with FAR - https://git.io/JfC5Z
<discord-_> P​teropodidae. — That's probably the thing that suffers the most with lots of fixup commits, but if it isn't that useful then 🤷
<discord-_> e​gg. — generally when we need to bisect things have gone very wrong and we are observing something in-game
<discord-_> e​gg. — so we bisect by hand (and the the bisection is not that hard : we never commit to master, so you just follow the merge commits)
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Sir Mortimer nice!
<discord-_> e​gg. — @lpg 2519 is getting slightly maddening; I think we are going to need to get our hands on your jerky/oscilly roll program test case to figure anything out
<discord-_> e​gg. — @lpg can you heavily compress your gamedata and send it to pleroy or me via google drive or somesuch?
<discord-_> e​gg. — (probably drop the rss-textures, we can hopefully redownload those reproducibly)
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Kobymaru I have reproduced your issue with your save, very Gemini 9A
<discord-_> e​gg. — I am now starting the game with the DLL you sent me, and I have glanced at the decompilate to check that it looks like the code I reviewed
<discord-_> P​teropodidae. — > we never commit to master, so you just follow the merge commits
<discord-_> P​teropodidae. — Ah, yeah, that'd probably make things easier
<discord-_> e​gg. — yeah this is the one thing we are very strict about
<discord-_> e​gg. — the only exception is changes to the readme
<discord-_> P​teropodidae. — I was thinking that git bisect likes to check out mid-branch commits too, which would normally land you in the middle of something potentially broken unless you do a lot of skipping
<discord-_> P​teropodidae. — Wish the dev process at my work were that disciplined :/
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — I was the one who made our dev process at work disciplined
<discord-_> e​gg. — and looks all good with your build
<discord-_> e​gg. — \o/
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — awesome 👍
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — introduced MR's and reviews and (almost) no commits on master
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — you can do it too @Pteropodidae, just pester your collegues until they comply and/or until they hate you
<discord-_> e​gg. — @DRVeyl @siimav so, do you prefer merge commit or squash-merge? (rebase-merge would be dumb here obviously)
<discord-_> s​iimav. — Squash
<discord-_> e​gg. — ok
<discord-_> e​gg. — Merged is the patch
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — 🥳
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — it feels good to not have my craft trapped
<discord-_> l​pg. — I'm not sure my upload speed will be up to the task of uploading a full gamedata; I'll see if I can strip it down to something manageable
<discord-_> e​gg. — thanks
<discord-_> e​gg. — no issues in space now, right?
<discord-_> l​pg. — funny you should ask
<discord-_> e​gg. — uh oh
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<discord-_> e​gg. — I was thinking maybe we could cut our losses and only enforce conservation of angular momentum outside the atmosphere, but if we have problems in space as well,
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] lpgagnon commented on issue #2519: Spin-up on reentry under physics warp with FAR - https://git.io/JfCd4
<discord-_> l​pg. — see new comment on issue
<discord-_> e​gg. — > start a krash sim
<discord-_> e​gg. — Okay but we know that this produces plenty of absurd effects even in older versions of Principia
<discord-_> l​pg. — yup, I'll want to try a "normal" flight now that I've seen it. this is slow going
<discord-_> e​gg. — @lpg you can make sure a vessel has no rotation without involving krash by hack gravity/timewarp/unhack gravity/dewarp
<discord-_> l​pg. — hack gravity+timewarp should give me a 'no rotation' starting condition, right?
<discord-_> l​pg. — ...
<discord-_> e​gg. — yup
<discord-_> e​gg. — :D
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — does hack gravity hide a vessel from principia?
<discord-_> e​gg. — yup
<discord-_> e​gg. — we explicitly hardcoded that escape hatch
<discord-_> e​gg. — (it is actually kind of tricky to detect that gravity is being hacked, we look for the debug menu)
<discord-_> e​gg. — (and we have to spawn a debug menu sneakily if there is none)
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — wow
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — but if I turn it off, the position is properly recomputed? My craft doesn't go off into other parts of the galaxy?
<discord-_> l​pg. — nope, it stays put in its stock orbit
<discord-_> l​pg. — I've seen some weird numbers if I wasn't in the "right" reference frame; never tried seeing if it was _just_ the numbers or if the actual orbit was affected
<discord-_> e​gg. — oh yeah while you are in hacked mode the speed display might be silly
<discord-_> e​gg. — but the orbit is whatever stock thinks it is
<discord-_> l​pg. — going to be AFK for a while. next steps planned: repro the vacuum cube issue in a "real" flight, then go back to 2561, then strip down install
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<discord-_> e​gg. — sounds good
<discord-_> e​gg. — (if you send us a stripped-down install make sure your roll programme test case works, it sounds useful)
<discord-_> e​gg. — (where by works I mean can be reproduced, i.e., does not work, you get the idea)
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — Are you aware of this configuration? The only command sent is "Q"
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — classic (albeit extreme) 2519'er
<discord-_> K​obymaru. — i have that too, just not as crazy
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — Yeah, i'm aware it's coused by 2519, yust wondering if this manifestation was known
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — Yeah, i'm aware it's caused by 2519, yust wondering if this manifestation was known (edited)
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — Yeah, i'm aware it's caused by 2519, just wondering if this manifestation was known (edited)
<discord-_> P​teropodidae. — @Kobymaru Might be a bit difficult to pull off since I don't have much sway and it's not primarily a software shop, but I can try
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Stonesmile well, no, I have never seen your particular rocket since you haven’t posted it. Again, same question as lpg ; at this point we are very much at a loss as to what we can do to make progress on this, so if we can get our hands on your install that might help
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Stonesmile also try the test2561 build linked in 2519
<discord-_> e​gg. — (and show the horrible 2519 debug UI in the video just in case)
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — This is using the 2561 version, i will look up said window
<discord-_> e​gg. — OK, that is interesting
<discord-_> e​gg. — try with both values of the last setting in 2561 then
<discord-_> e​gg. — it might be that my smoothing exposes the singularity too much...
<discord-_> l​pg. — that definitely looks like an extreme version of my roll-program case
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin commented on issue #2519: Spin-up on reentry under physics warp with FAR - https://git.io/JfCN0
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — The first gif is not using "Fubini orientation correction" and this one is.
<discord-_> e​gg. — OK so I guess the good news is the shiny new 2561 orientation correction scheme did not make things more broken than they were
<discord-_> l​pg. — so with 2550 I do reliably get the same vacuum cube effect without involving krash, using my new procedure. I do _not_ get it with 2561, regardless of 'fubini orientation correction' toggle. I'm starting to wonder if that toggle is actually doing something
<discord-_> e​gg. — I do believe it is doing *something*, but while I think the behaviour is supposed to be the same as 2550 when it is checked, I might have accidentally worked around a numerical issue from Fubini
<discord-_> e​gg. — @Stonesmile it looks like your videos are done with krash, can you try without? Krash tends to have a lot of issues with Principia so let us try to separate the issues
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — I'll try without crash, going to strip down the install to remove potential interactions
<discord-_> e​gg. — @lpg but I guess that means that with 2561 we have no known in-space issues, so that is some sort of progress
<discord-_> l​pg. — yes
<discord-_> l​pg. — just for the record
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] lpgagnon edited a comment on issue #2519: Spin-up on reentry under physics warp with FAR - https://git.io/JfCd4
<discord-_> D​amien. — @lpg how did you add the COM thing? I don't see it in MJ
<discord-_> l​pg. — buried somewhere in the Attitude Adjustment window I think
<discord-_> D​amien. — ah
<discord-_> l​pg. — there's also a CoL indicator, but I've found it to be too erratic to be useful
<discord-_> l​pg. — Incidentally, one thing that last clip shows is that the part is _not_ moving; it stays put relative to the rest of the vessel
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<discord-_> l​pg. — though the shaky camera makes it a bit dubious
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — @egg The behaviour remains the same when running the test without Krash
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<discord-_> e​gg. — OK, good to know
<discord-_> l​pg. — welp. fubini oscillations during roll, pure stock edition
<discord-_> l​pg. — with frobenius, the roll is completely smooth
<discord-_> l​pg. — this is with nothing in my GameData other than Squad and Principia
<discord-_> S​tonesmile. — Is there some kind of logging we could do? log "d omega" and such?
<discord-_> l​pg. — this is with nothing in my GameData other than Squad and Principia (so not a lot of point in uploading that) (edited)
<discord-_> A​cer_Saccharum. — is the current version of Principia Fulbini linked on the thread considered usable?
<discord-_> A​cer_Saccharum. — or is it recommended to remain with Frenet for now?
<discord-_> D​amien. — it's usable bar the odd rotation glitch, and the more people use it, the more data egg gets
<discord-_> e​gg. — @lpg that is very interesting!
<discord-_> e​gg. — @lpg add a note on the bug with that video and your save (and detailed flying instructions, pleroy does not really play KSP so word that straightforwardly so he can reproduce the issue :-p)
<discord-_> e​gg. — In the meantime I will write something to disable the enforcement of the conservation of angular momentum in the atmosphere while we figure that out
<discord-_> e​gg. — I hope it actually is in the atmosphere...
<discord-_> e​gg. — I guess launching that rocket from the Mun or something would answer that concern
<discord-_> e​gg. — I hope it actually is in the atmosphere, and not low altitudes more generally… (edited)
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<discord-_> e​gg. — compiling principia on this machine also takes an eternity
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Buy a better machine. With all your Principia cash.
<discord-_> e​gg. — well, I have a good machine but it is in Switzerland and I have been stuck in Normandy for a while (and I am probably stuck for a while still)
<discord-_> e​gg. — I guess I could get one for here too
<discord-_> B​utcher. — 🤑
<discord-_> B​utcher. — I have been using my work computer remotely for compiles.
<discord-_> e​gg. — we also use azure
<discord-_> e​gg. — I guess I could just open a PR already to see where it doesn’t compile
<discord-_> M​yshiko. — @egg i wonder, is there a link by any chance where people can drop money to buy food for your science papers reading cat?
<discord-_> e​gg. — I think my cat is doing fine :-)
<discord-_> M​yshiko. — 🙂
<discord-_> B​utcher. — My cats just sleep, no science papers.
<discord-_> e​gg. — I think mine is sleeping somewhere
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin commented on issue #2519: Spin-up on reentry under physics warp with FAR - https://git.io/JfWkQ
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Mine is so much less elegant.
<discord-_> n​eph. — Your cat is charging
<discord-_> e​gg. — > I hope it actually is in the atmosphere, and not low altitudes more generally…
<discord-_> e​gg. — aaaand as I was testing the space-only workaround I accidentally threw my spacecraft into an unphysical spin, so I guess I have my answer, it is still everywhere
<discord-_> e​gg. — but at least we have a clean free-falling free-spinning repro I suppose
<discord-_> B​utcher. — @neph we also have kittens now, they are tiring.
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] lpgagnon commented on issue #2519: Spin-up on reentry under physics warp with FAR - https://git.io/JfWIl
<discord-_> N​athanKell. — @egg that's correct. I think I may have also ended up using it for some drift correction stuff I did with vessel integration at phys warp?
<discord-_> e​gg. — possibly
<discord-_> e​gg. — also hi
<discord-_> N​athanKell. — hi 🙂