13:00 <discord-_> F​arrier. — I've read online that in RSS the lowest relative inc with the moon from Canaveral is supposed to be less then 1 deg, but I can't seem to get less then ~5.5 deg. Is it a Principia thing, or I'm not getting something?

13:00 <discord-_> F​arrier. — https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/738380393362751578/unknown.png

13:07 <discord-_> B​utcher. — It varies with principia on n 18 year cycle.

13:07 <discord-_> B​utcher. — Wait a few years and it might reduce. 😆

13:09 <discord-_> F​arrier. — 😞

13:13 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] joey-lg opened issue #2657: How do I download old binaries? - https://git.io/JJg7p

13:17 <discord-_> F​arrier. — Still not sure how to plan maneuvers from this conditions. This is good enough I guess?

13:17 <discord-_> F​arrier. — https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/738384865950564392/unknown.png

13:24 <discord-_> B​utcher. — Generally the idea is to get into an orbit where your LAN matches that of the moon, then you can burn at the ascending node and you will hit it.

13:27 <discord-_> F​arrier. — > get into an orbit where your LAN matches that of the moon

13:27 <discord-_> F​arrier. — Not sure how to do that ☹️

13:34 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy commented on issue #2657: How do I download old binaries? - https://git.io/JJgdb

13:34 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy closed issue #2657: How do I download old binaries? - https://git.io/JJg7p

13:42 <discord-_> l​pg. — you press a different button in pvg

13:44 <discord-_> F​arrier. — Launch to target LAN?

13:45 <discord-_> F​arrier. — So it's the same as just launching in position I shown above?

13:55 <discord-_> D​amien. — *Number of people surprised by lunar precession:* *~~1~~ ~~2~~... ~~53~~... 763*

14:08 <discord-_> F​arrier. — It's not easy to wrap your head around all these things, you know 🙂 Especially when you've not studied all of this before. I appreciate y'all answering dumb questions. I know I'm probably not qualified to play with Principia, but it's interesting to get to know all this stuff. Besides, flight planner in Principia makes much more sense to me then the stock one with patched conics.

14:08 <discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — No it's cool man, it's just funny how many people fall for the moon

14:09 <discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — I recommend launching from a different pad

14:17 <discord-_> F​arrier. — I didn't install KSC switcher unfortunately. And apparently you can't do it in the middle of a playthrough because you lose all of the upgrades.

14:17 <discord-_> D​amien. — @Farrier it caught literally every one of us out

14:18 <discord-_> D​amien. — it'd be more funny if it didn't catch you out 🙂

14:20 <discord-_> F​arrier. — 😆

14:26 <discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — oof ur stuck at Cape 😦

14:33 <discord-_> S​tonesmile. — @Farrier itsRyan has a kOS script to launch to a parking orbit to go to the moon https://github.com/ryanc55/KOS-Scripts/blob/master/moonlaunchwindow.ks

14:38 <discord-_> B​utcher. — @egg I just tried to rebase a flight plan I had flown off the end of and the game CTD.

14:39 <discord-_> B​utcher. — `F0730 15:36:56.331396 2140 flight_plan.cpp:63] Check failed: desired_final_time_ >= initial_time_ ` ☹️

14:44 <discord-_> e​gg. — Oops

14:44 <discord-_> e​gg. — File a bug, this seems straightforward to check

14:44 <discord-_> e​gg. — (we could just say no)

14:47 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] RCrockford opened issue #2658: Rebasing a flight plan when past the end fatals the game. - https://git.io/JJgx1

16:56 <discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — I need a script that launches into the moons inclination from anywhere, is there one around? I'm way to lazy

16:56 <discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — I need a script that launches into the moons inclination from anywhere, is there one around? I'm way too lazy (edited)

17:28 <discord-_> S​tonesmile. — @Zeusbeer If you mean a dogleg during ascent if you are above the inclination of the moon, then PVG can do that, if you mean a script that gets you a timed parking orbit, then itsRyans scipt posted by me above works

17:29 <discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — PVG works with principia? I gotta start learning to press buttons lol

17:30 <discord-_> S​tonesmile. — A dogleg is expensive though

17:36 <discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — what's a dogleg?

17:41 <discord-_> s​cimas. — Launch into the minimum possible inclination. Part way through the ascent, as you come "under" the desired orbit, change attitude and burn into that orbit.

18:08 <discord-_> l​amont. — don't launch into the plane of the moon, its expensive.

18:10 <discord-_> B​uilderbast. — you wanna launch when you cross the moons an/dn right?

18:12 <discord-_> l​amont. — you want to launch when you have a node with the moon's plane which is aligned with where the moon will be after your transit time

18:18 <discord-_> l​amont. — and there's really no solver to help anyone with that

18:19 <discord-_> l​amont. — and as i've pointed out in the MJ FAQ principia is KSPs "nightmare mode" so "git gud"

18:24 <discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — I love principia, it's easy mode

18:25 <discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — I know how to launch into the moon, it's just that it's extremely boring sitting trough launches and controlling them

18:25 <discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — (I really want to put a small 32x32 reaction image here 😦 )

18:45 <discord-_> l​amont. — learn kOS

18:48 <discord-_> B​uilderbast. — honestly I like this figuring out how it works part of ksp a lot more than just doing routine moon missions

18:48 <discord-_> B​uilderbast. — its challenging and I love it

19:08 <discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — Already know how to kOS but scriping, troubleshooting and looking up functions

19:08 <discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — zzzzz

19:15 <discord-_> d​awidePl. — Does Principia drastically change gameplay?

19:15 <discord-_> d​awidePl. — I'm thinking about downloading it

19:28 <discord-_> S​tandecco. — it does indeed

19:40 <discord-_> d​awidePl. — Do you think that it's worth to install?

19:40 <discord-_> d​awidePl. — I'm not sure if I should do it or not 🤔

19:42 <discord-_> B​uilderbast. — well if you like to be challenged its good

19:42 <discord-_> B​uilderbast. — do first read the wiki though, otherwise you wont even know where to start

19:43 <discord-_> d​awidePl. — Alright! Yesterday I learned to get to Venus and Mars, so not sure if I'm ready for Principia 😅

19:43 <discord-_> l​pg. — principia would involve forgetting what you learned yesterday and starting over

19:43 <discord-_> d​awidePl. — I see

19:44 <discord-_> d​awidePl. — I will give it a chance!

19:47 <discord-_> d​awidePl. — Or 2 chances

20:41 <discord-_> M​rChemistryCow. — principia is the rss of rss haha

20:58 <discord-_> s​cimas. — I really don't like that "forget everything you know about stock orbital mechanics" advice. As long as I have been using Principia, I still somewhat think in terms of patched conics. After all they do a good job as an approximation in many many cases. As an example, just because you're using Principia, the concept and intuition behind Hohmann transfer doesn't become useless; neither does the conce

20:59 <discord-_> l​amont. — the problem is people who expect there to be principia "easy" buttons that everyone else has built for them already

21:01 <discord-_> l​amont. — and i'm not sure that some of the people who are trying to play principia have any good intuition around hohmann transfers, and they're skipping ahead to RO + principia to try to be one of the cool kids without having done the work initially

21:01 <discord-_> l​amont. — or in this case who just expect everyone else to have done the work for them because "zzzzz"

21:07 <discord-_> d​awidePl. — Bruh I can't find Principia download link...

21:08 <discord-_> s​cimas. — Fair enough, but that isn't a problem unique to Principia. Any mod that adds "exotic" functionality to the game will suffer from such behaviour. That doesn't justify discouraging every single player at the doorstep though. People either learn to have more realistic expectations or drop out after some time.

21:08 <discord-_> d​awidePl. — It's this?

21:08 <discord-_> d​awidePl. — https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/738503271446216885/unknown.png

21:08 <discord-_> s​cimas. — Yes

21:08 <discord-_> d​awidePl. — Ok, done 😄

21:08 <discord-_> d​awidePl. — Time to read wiki and launch KSP

21:09 <discord-_> l​amont. — its very annoying to those of us who otherwise enjoy solving those kinds of problems to have kids showing up asking "why have none of you losers solved this already for me?" which is how half of the requests come across.

21:10 <discord-_> d​awidePl. — So, I suppose that going to some 10Mm orbit wouldn't be as easy as it was before?

21:32 <discord-_> s​cimas. — I can appreciate how annoying it can be. I only follow the principia channel on this server, so I don't know what's the situation in other channels. But from my experience in the kOS server, there are always some overly ambitious newcomers and some who can't understand why things don't work exactly as they want them to. These things aren't always small enough to be compiled into an FAQ. But member

21:47 <discord-_> C​onventia. — I usually make up for a lack of planning tools by having more dv than I need.

22:45 <discord-_> F​arrier. — > @Farrier itsRyan has a kOS script to launch to a parking orbit to go to the moon https://github.com/ryanc55/KOS-Scripts/blob/master/moonlaunchwindow.ks

22:45 <discord-_> F​arrier. — @Stonesmile I saw it before and I'll definitely try it, but I usually try to understand the methodology (at least roughly) before I resort to automation. Maybe I just run it and see what it does.

23:12 <discord-_> i​tsRyan. — @Farrier It does exactly what lamont said above:

23:12 <discord-_> i​tsRyan. — > you want to launch when you have a node with the moon's plane which is aligned with where the moon will be after your transit time

23:12 <discord-_> i​tsRyan. — Note that my script only handles the case of launch site latitudes above lunar plane. Below plane it's easiest to just launch directly into lunar plane when you intersect it since there's no dogleg involved there. MJ already has a button for that.

23:12 <discord-_> i​tsRyan. — But I think lamont's point is a good one, it may be more fun and informative to learn to do it either by hand or with your own code if you're into that sort of thing. There's also lot of space history out there too that shows there are lots of ways to do this transfer with various pros/cons.

23:31 <discord-_> i​tsRyan. — @Farrier It does exactly what lamont said above:

23:31 <discord-_> i​tsRyan. — > you want to launch when you have a node with the moon's plane which is aligned with where the moon will be after your transit time

23:31 <discord-_> i​tsRyan. — Well, technically it only gets you into that plane. You then need to set up a maneuver to leave your parking orbit at the AN/DN. Note that my script only handles the case of launch site latitudes above lunar plane. Below plane it's easiest to just launch directly into lunar plane when you intersect it since there's no dogleg involved there. MJ already has a button for that.

23:31 <discord-_> i​tsRyan. — But I think lamont's point is a good one, it may be more fun and informative to learn to do it either by hand or with your own code if you're into that sort of thing. There's also lot of space history out there too that shows there are lots of ways to do this transfer with various pros/cons. (edited)