raptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Galileo. We currently target 1.5.1, 1.6.1, 1.7.x, 1.8.1, and 1.9.1. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
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<discord-> S​tonesmile. — It's 100% CoM offset; i set a ProcAvionics as root part, tested vessel, all fine, set the CoM-offset on the Avionics to max and the bug is visible!
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Anyone knows how you could plan a crazy mission like earth - venus-jupiter-pluto flight?
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — Use fight planner feature
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — First step would be to check if a similar mission has been planned in real life, use that as inspiration
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — How do you sync the dates then?
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Well, you have to plan it yourself, but a similar trajectory *could* work
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Oof
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Someone might have a better external tool, but in the end you still have to plan it yourself
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — NASAs Gmat software exists, but it takes you several hours to learn how to do a hohmann transfer, so a steep learning curve
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Ye I tried that one
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — xd
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — But hey, the channel topic applies!
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I've used kspTOT and had some limited succes
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Problem was that you have to insert the maneuver ingame but it never works lol
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Is kspTOT n-body or patched conics?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Patched conics wich is its limitation I guess
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Or maybe its n-body and that's why it never worked
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Well, if it works in stock and doesn't have a specific setting for Principia, then it's patched conics
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — a simple control-f event happend
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — but problem is, kspTOTs mission planner is still kinda hard, just like GMAT
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Yeah, in some cases the in-came planner is better...
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Yeah, in some cases the in-game planner is better... (edited)
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — am I just a complete pepega that I don't know where the ingame planner can be found?
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — center left?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — oh that's what you ment
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Ah, yean, not a different one unfortunately
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Ah, yeah, not a different one unfortunately (edited)
<discord-> A​nomaly. — KSPtot has an n-body coast feature
<discord-> A​nomaly. — Apparently also a feature to model continuous burns as well
<discord-> A​nomaly. — I haven't tested it myself
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I have achieved ballistic capture
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — )))
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — What's the total dV?
<discord-> A​nomaly. — But with the way the genetic optimiser is used for trajectory pathfinding in KSPtot, I wouldn't expect it to perform very well even if they technically work
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — like around 900
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — TLI+capture?
<discord-> A​nomaly. — I don't think that's possible?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I really don't know
<discord-> A​nomaly. — Also that looks like you're in the wrong frame.
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I will calculate the DV used one sec
<discord-> A​nomaly. — Try the Earth-Moon barycentre instead to better visualise.
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Shite, I can't calculate properly because I used the second stage to circularize aswell
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — (((
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — My guess is about 950-1000
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — is this in RO?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — no stock xd
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — ah, that makes sense
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — just wanted to do the manouver
<discord-> A​nomaly. — Oh, right
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Yeah, it's a neat one
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — but It's not 100% capture because I did require 10 m/s to make an orbit around the mun
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — because it was barely stable
<discord-> A​nomaly. — There's a tutorial on the wiki on Mun ballistic capture.
<discord-> A​nomaly. — 1070m/s iirc
<discord-> A​nomaly. — So you did well.
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — how much is normal transfer + capture again
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — how much is normal transfer + capture again? (edited)
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — well the tradeoff is that it took 75 days
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — xd
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — stock Mun hohmann is ~1150 m/s
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — And takes 6h
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — it's really not worth the 150 m/s save for that time
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — you could fly to duna
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — xd
<discord-> A​nomaly. — The tutorial ballistic capture took 2.5 days
<discord-> A​nomaly. — Much more acceptable
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — yeah but it used the inner orbit of the mün
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I wanted to use the outer one
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — basically this manouver except the earth is kerbin
<discord-> A​nomaly. — This graph doesn't help a lot 🙃, but I see what you mean
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — how much would a ballistic capture save on an actual moon mission?
<discord-> A​nomaly. — I forgot the name but a NASA probe being launched on Electron is using ballistic capture sometime later this year.
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Sick
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Wikipedia claims 3.5 km/s for TLI+capture, and my usual TLI+capture is ~4 km/s, so 500 m/s
<discord-> A​nomaly. — Haha using KSP as an authoritative source.
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Yep 😆
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — dv map says 3940 m/s for transfer + orbit
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Wikipedia also claims 2x payload to LLO
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Found TLI+capture on wikipedia; 4.04 km/s so pretty close!
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<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — woah
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — you can actualy do a balistic capture to mars
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<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — and when you do it you can have any launch window possible
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — it just changes the time it takes for it to get there
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — What's the typical transfer time?
<discord-> A​nomaly. — Yes
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<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — yes
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — *That* practical huh?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — If I understood it corectly it should look something like this
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — but you have to fine tune the point perfectly
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — YES I DID IT
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — xd
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I did it though
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — first time ever going to dres in this game
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — and it's with a complicated orbital mechanics mod
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<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I feel like an absolute champ now
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — it only took like 10 minutes to set it up
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — it's almost easier / less annoying than the stock way
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<discord-> D​amien. — @Zeusbeer get on my level scrub
<discord-> D​amien. — seriously though, nice work
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — how do you get a square orbit
<discord-> D​amien. — I play KSP as 'n-body trickshot simulator' too
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — lmao
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — That is smells Minecraft is here
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — can you screenshot a different reference frame?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I'm actually confused
<discord-> e​gg. — that is not the same part of the trajectory
<discord-> e​gg. — try showing the square orbit in MCEA or something
<discord-> D​amien. — the pics are unrelated
<discord-> D​amien. — @Zeusbeer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Aq8nYL03Ts
<kmath> YouTube - Principia shenanigans
<discord-> e​gg. — yeah the square orbit was found by maccollo
<discord-> e​gg. — it is a distant retrograde orbit with the right period afaict
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — wait damien
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — are you secretly macollo
<discord-> D​amien. — no
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — oh ok
<discord-> D​amien. — I just have that video bookmarked 🙂
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — well I see now
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — it is a super important video
<discord-> D​amien. — unlisted for some reason
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — wait
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — that means my laythe orbit from earlier was maybe a little bit square aswell
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — sick I want a squaresat now aswell
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — :magic:
<discord-> D​amien. — and while planning it I ended up with this thing somehow
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I'm falling in love with principia slowly
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — real world gravity is way cooler
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — I figured the Mars flyby in the first try
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — I love real world physics
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — nice work man
<discord-> D​amien. — @Zeusbeer once you've had enough with stock, set up an RSS install but with SMURFF instead of RO. You can practice in RSS without the other realism restrictions then
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — And is the first try in 1.8
<discord-> D​amien. — I use it for practicing things I might want to do in RO
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — No I already played with RO and played trough alot of rp-1
<discord-> D​amien. — fair enough
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — but the real world restrictions are sad man
<discord-> D​amien. — JNSQ is a nice middle ground then
<discord-> D​amien. — that's what I'm currently playing, when I do play
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — give me my infinite ignition / throttle / ullage
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — )))
<discord-> D​amien. — JNSQ's scale is balanced really nicely for stock parts (instead of being overpowered like in stock) and principia works fine in it
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — also I find rendezvous kinda amusing with the target navball
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — you can orbit your target with the different references
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — and with the other navball it feels like you can plan your approach way more efficiently
<discord-> D​amien. — definitely
<discord-> D​amien. — rendezvous in principia compared the stock is like the difference between eating with a spoon compared to with a stick you found on the ground
<discord-> D​amien. — rendezvous in principia compared to stock is like the difference between eating with a spoon compared to with a stick you found on the ground (edited)
<discord-> D​amien. — sure it works but there's a way more user friendly method
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — It's a bit weird to look at yes
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — but once you understand it a bit it works better
<discord-> D​amien. — principia was way easier once you get the hang of it
<discord-> D​amien. — it makes stock's implementation look archaic
<discord-> D​amien. — principia is way easier once you get the hang of it (edited)
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — ye indeed
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — need to try a rendezvous with an astroid see how it goes
<discord-> D​amien. — I've not tried that yet
<discord-> D​amien. — my JNSQ game is basically 'do every mission in the most complex way possible'
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I've only done that with stock
<discord-> D​amien. — lunar flyby? outer transfer via L1
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — So astroid -> jool system -> make a space hotel in a square orbit around laythe complex?
<discord-> D​amien. — lol yeah
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — xd
<discord-> D​amien. — solar science? recreate Genesis
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — nice L1
<discord-> D​amien. — I've no idea what this one was for
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — did you return genesis aswell for the "solar wind particle analysis" ?
<discord-> D​amien. — Or this
<discord-> D​amien. — @Zeusbeer I planned the mission to get a Dv budget but never actually got round to it because I've not had the urge to play since
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — you "Lagrange abooser"
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — that sounds like a good role for this discord
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — xd
<discord-> D​amien. — I spend all day at my PC because I'm working from home so I've not been wanting to sit here and play games
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — > It's 100% CoM offset; i set a ProcAvionics as root part, tested vessel, all fine, set the CoM-offset on the Avionics to max and the bug is visible!
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — @egg Tested one of the cases discussed last night
<discord-> D​amien. — @Zeusbeer minmus to mun for 52m/s lol
<discord-> D​amien. — that's on JNSQ too so it's 2.5x
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — that's pretty amazing xd
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — but setting up encounters is so much easier with principia imo
<discord-> e​gg. — @Stonesmile OK, but 1. in that case it really should not occur with 2602, unless I built 2602 at the wrong point (can you check what the complete version string is in test2602?) 2. I cannot reproduce the issue of a persistent deformation, only mild one-frame jumpiness, can you give me a stock craft?
<discord-> e​gg. — (stock + MH)
<discord-> D​amien. — @Zeusbeer and capture/circularisation burns
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — cool
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — since you've setup squaresat?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — is there a certain periapsis you need to attend for it
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — around the mun
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — @egg can i see the version in Gamedata or do i have to boot up that version?
<discord-> D​amien. — tbh it's an eyeball thing
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — aye
<discord-> e​gg. — @Stonesmile you can look at the beginning of the INFO file too
<discord-> e​gg. — (from a run with 2602)
<discord-> D​amien. — there probably is a set of numbers you could follow but I basically do what macollo does and play with it
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — @egg 2020062303-TEST2602-0-g5bd73588e8d5e5785ab643f7f28a7d4999211264-dirty
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I'm already happy on how far I've gotten with principia
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I basically did an entire dres mission
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — And I've never been to dres before because I could never figure out the encounter xd
<discord-> D​amien. — you're doing better than I did as a new user. I learned on an RO game and it hampered me tbh
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — oof that's harsh
<discord-> B​utcher. — I learned on RO.
<discord-> D​amien. — I eventually took a break to play with it on stock and RSS/SMURFF and it really improved my understanding
<discord-> B​utcher. — Have managed venus orbit and Mars flyby.
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — in rp1 I managed a gas giant mission but without principia
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — or rp0
<discord-> D​amien. — speedrun all the milestones without the handicap then take those skills back to RO is the best way imo
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Moho is quite annoying to get to, I should try that aswell
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — xd
<discord-> e​gg. — @Stonesmile 5bd73588e8d5e5785ab643f7f28a7d4999211264? I fucked up.
<discord-> e​gg. — OK so it is the CoM offset thing then.
<discord-> D​amien. — @Zeusbeer it sounds like it'd be really easy but do a Molniya constellation, and a Geostationary sat at Earth
<discord-> e​gg. — now, stock+MH save that has the persistent offset rather than just jumpiness please
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — If you have another build you want me to test, I'll be happy to help
<discord-> e​gg. — I’d like an exact repro of your bug rather than one that feels eerily similar but much less annoying
<discord-> D​amien. — @Zeusbeer it sounds like it'd be really easy but do a Molniya constellation, and a Geostationary sat at Earth (not kerbin because that's perfectly spherical) (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — since right now I either don’t quite understand how it is broken or don’t quite understand how it can possibly work
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Is geostationary harder with principia?
<discord-> e​gg. — yes
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — how?
<discord-> e​gg. — well, except at two specific longitudes
<discord-> e​gg. — the earth is not round
<discord-> e​gg. — (and also the moon exists, but that is more minor)
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — Earth is not flat, and not round, so what?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — it is minecraft comrade
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — is a geoid
<discord-> D​amien. — it is a lumpy 🥚
<discord-> e​gg. — eggsactly
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — LOL
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — does the earth rotate the same direction as the moon rotates around it?
<discord-> B​utcher. — Yes
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — then you launch into moon plane using principia hacks and then you do geostationary
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — big brain
<discord-> e​gg. — no that is dumb
<discord-> D​amien. — if it's inclined it's not stationary
<discord-> B​utcher. — Why would you launch to lunar plane?
<discord-> e​gg. — you want to launch into the equator
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — Interplanetary?
<discord-> e​gg. — there is another navball for that, too
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — oh pog
<discord-> e​gg. — anyway the issue is not getting to the geostationary place
<discord-> D​amien. — the moon is the least of your worries anyway
<discord-> e​gg. — it is to stay there
<discord-> B​utcher. — You launch to a prograde parking orbit and then do gto at the equator.
<discord-> D​amien. — that just moves your sat up and down
<discord-> e​gg. — or you launch straight to gto in theory
<discord-> B​utcher. — Can you do that from all latitudes?
<discord-> B​utcher. — Seems like it would only work for low lat launch sites.
<discord-> D​amien. — GTO, not GEO
<discord-> D​amien. — any orbit that crosses the equator can be a GTO
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — @egg I seem to have some trouble getting a lasting deformation in stock+principia, I'll try some stuff
<discord-> B​utcher. — @Damien yes, but if you don't hit ap on our near the equator is it a useful gto?
<discord-> D​amien. — no but no matter where you launch from you could make one
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — @egg I have managed to create a vessel that shows deformation, but it uses one aditional mod, Procedural Fairings. I think the issue needs a part with an offset node to show lasting deformation
<discord-> e​gg. — interesting
<discord-> e​gg. — well, send that, I have PF lying around somewhere
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — The craft is created with RO, going to install ProcFairings to another install
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — For some unknown reason, the same craft in my RP-1 install doesn't stay deformed in Stock+Principia+Making History+Proc Fairings
<discord-> M​ultyino. — why ?
<discord-> l​pg. — you put a gamedata in your gamedata
<discord-> M​ultyino. — where do u put it in ?
<discord-> M​ultyino. — nzip the archive and copy the Principia folder into the GameData folder of your installation of KSP.
<discord-> M​ultyino. — thats what the FAQ says i am now confused
<discord-> l​pg. — yes. you didn't do that
<discord-> D​amien. — have you put the zip file in gamedata?
<discord-> M​ultyino. — yeah its unziped
<discord-> D​amien. — it should be gamedata/principia
<discord-> D​amien. — and it looks like that's the source from github
<discord-> D​amien. — not the binary release
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin opened pull request #2649: Visual Studio 16.6.1 - https://git.io/JJsxm
<discord-> D​amien. — actually no my mistake that is right
<discord-> D​amien. — but the folder structure is wrong
<discord-> D​amien. — so move the 2nd principia folder up two levels so it's in gamedata
<discord-> D​amien. — and get rid of the galileo folder and its conttents
<discord-> D​amien. — and get rid of the galileo folder and its contents (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — read the FAQ calmly and carefully
<discord-> M​ultyino. — ye i just noticed it
<discord-> M​ultyino. — i just was confused because its not the right levels at the moment u unzip
<discord-> D​amien. — that's often the case
<discord-> e​gg. — yeah it is a common convention
<discord-> D​amien. — gamedata/gamedata is practically a meme at this point
<discord-> M​ultyino. — should be right
<discord-> e​gg. — much butter
<discord-> D​amien. — 🧈
<discord-> M​ultyino. — butter lol
<discord-> e​gg. — 🧈
<discord-> M​ultyino. — mandarin is better
<discord-> M​ultyino. — mandarine is better (edited)
<discord-> M​ultyino. — r = bu
<discord-> M​ultyino. — > gamedata/gamedata is practically a meme at this point
<discord-> M​ultyino. — @Damien basically that happens too often lol
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<discord-> S​tonesmile. — @egg How important is it for you to get a vessel with minimal mods that displays the deformation? I have been unsuccessfull at reproducing the deformation with few mods
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<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — gamedata in gamedata
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — that's why you should always drag outside of the winrar or whatever
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — to avoid confusion because fuck "unzip" buttons
<discord-> e​gg. — @Stonesmile screw it, I’ll just fix what I think is the bug and you can test
<discord-> e​gg. — not sure if that will make it into Gallai but we’ll see
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Let me know when there is a version to test!
<discord-> e​gg. — you are on Windows?
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4402/
<discord-> e​gg. — (yes, otherwise you couldn’t have used my test builds)
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Yup
<discord-> B​utcher. — @egg rebase is my new favourite thing. J/ust need correct rcs thrust now.
<discord-> B​utcher. — @egg rebase is my new favourite thing. Just need correct rcs thrust now. (edited)
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4402/
<discord-> e​gg. — @Butcher that you seem to understand better than I, and to know how to fix, so I am secretly hoping that you will fix it for me :-p
<discord-> B​utcher. — Oh sure, I can submit a PR.
<discord-> e​gg. — most importantly, since you encounter the issue, you can test
<discord-> B​utcher. — I had it working nicely with it using the maximum value instead of average.
<discord-> e​gg. — that’s C#-side, in the testless land
<discord-> B​utcher. — But my local changes are not compiled in due to all the galileo issues.
<discord-> B​utcher. — Just been having issues with kOS thinking my RCS had zero yaw torque, seems to be something going round. I blame KSP.
<discord-> B​utcher. — PRs submitted against master?
<discord-> e​gg. — yeah
<discord-> e​gg. — do we even have other branches still ?
<discord-> e​gg. — we only have those when we are doing a humongous change that starts coming close to the actual mod
<discord-> e​gg. — e.g. for the rigid body rotation we had one
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<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy commented on pull request #2649: Visual Studio 16.6.1 - https://git.io/JJshx
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4403/
<discord-> B​utcher. — Dunno, I just cloned master.
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4403/
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [abseil-cpp] eggrobin pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/JJGvR
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [abseil-cpp] eggrobin 1c404f7 - Revert "std::result_of is deprecated" This reverts commit ba070d46218749cf42863b0c79508a02a654481f.
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [abseil-cpp] eggrobin bf1c940 - patch in a result_of
<discord-> s​cimas. — I love how many "User-facing features" we have been getting recently in addition to the bug fixes 😄
<discord-> e​gg. — @Stonesmile currently uploading a test build, will be there in a few minutes
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — I'll test it as soon as I can!
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Initial test seems good
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — I'll test some more, but it seems to be fixed
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Maby @Falcon could test that build?
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin opened pull request #2650: Reference part offset - https://git.io/JJGfm
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4404/
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4404/
<discord-> F​alcon. — oh boy
<discord-> F​alcon. — i mean, sure i could if you wanted
<discord-> F​alcon. — im guessing egg thinks he found the cause?
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — TLDR; CoM on root part caused it
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — TLDR; CoM offset on root part caused it (edited)
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [abseil-cpp] eggrobin pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JJGfi
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [abseil-cpp] eggrobin d1a5089 - _HAS_DEPRECATED_RESULT_OF
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy commented on pull request #2649: Visual Studio 16.6.1 - https://git.io/JJGfy
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4405/
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — ah shit
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — here we go again
<discord-> D​amien. — principia trickshot crew represent
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — xd
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — its just a retrograde burn
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — on moho
<discord-> D​amien. — if it's not a triple lagrange point square orbit with a somersault finish it's not worth doing
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4405/
<discord-> F​alcon. — Do we have phase angles from MESSENGER and Bepicolombos mission?
<discord-> F​alcon. — like actual good data?
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy commented on pull request #2649: Visual Studio 16.6.1 - https://git.io/JJGJd
<discord-> D​anieI. — Why cant you hack into orbit when you're already in an orbit
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4406/
<discord-> F​alcon. — what?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I just realised I brought a rover on solar power to the mohole that is basically a pole surrounded by highground
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — someone personally come to my home to slap me please
<discord-> F​alcon. — go to a backup, change your landing area before you get too close, bam
<discord-> D​anieI. — You can hack into an orbit from launch pad but not when you're already in orbit
<discord-> D​amien. — on the launchpad your craft doesn't exist according to principia. then once you move it, it does
<discord-> D​amien. — hack orbit doesn't work if principia knows it exists, unless you use the 'hack gravity' escape hatch
<discord-> D​anieI. — Make principia think it doesnt exist again
<discord-> D​anieI. — Then reexist it in a new orbit
<discord-> D​amien. — hack gravity removes it from principia yes
<discord-> D​anieI. — Cool
<discord-> D​amien. — then move it and unhack gravity
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — ye it's time for my astroid rendezvous speedrun
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I'll do one that doesn't get close to kerbin for the lolz
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — or maybe I should
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — this one looks weird and annoying enough to learn something
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — time for operation Astroid Gurabuu
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — should I redirect it into an orbit of Kerbin aswell?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — sounds like something fun xd
<discord-> D​amien. — @Zeusbeer I like to watch the asteroids appear and be flung about by earth, moon etc
<discord-> D​amien. — they're way more interesting with principia
<discord-> D​anieI. — Redirect it to Jupiter
<discord-> D​amien. — redirect jupiter to the asteroid
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — yes comrade )))
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — our astroid
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4406/
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<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I have a question
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I set the target
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — switch to target navball and wait
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — But you see the relative speed difference?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — is there a way to have the navball but let it be on surface speed
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — is there a way to have the navball but let it be on surface speed? (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — no.
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — ;-;
<discord-> e​gg. — You see the speed in the frame.
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — yeah but I'm just missing my prograde surface vector
<discord-> e​gg. — you always see the speed in the frame.
<discord-> e​gg. — yes but no.
<discord-> B​utcher. — @egg Principia takes too long to build. 😭
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — how do I properly align the planes then?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — do I align the prograde vector relative to the target with the navball?
<discord-> e​gg. — you switch between the frames as needed
<discord-> e​gg. — anyway surface prograde would be the wrong one, so you are misunderstanding how to launch into a plane to start with
<discord-> e​gg. — I guess having the target LVLH velocity in the reference plane would work though
<discord-> e​gg. — > do I align the prograde vector relative to the target with the navball?
<discord-> e​gg. — So yes, probably
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — k will try
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — see how close it is
<discord-> e​gg. — This is exactly the same thing as the moon
<discord-> e​gg. — literally, Target LVLH@Kerbin uses the same code as MCKA
<discord-> e​gg. — they are defined in the same way
<discord-> e​gg. — it’s just that one is for vessels and the other for celestials, and red or orange
<discord-> e​gg. — @Butcher yeah, it takes a while
<discord-> e​gg. — especially the first time when you do the rebuild_all_solution
<discord-> e​gg. — especially the first time when you do the rebuild_all_solutions (edited)
<discord-> B​utcher. — Also, is your fix that I was testing in master?
<discord-> e​gg. — ?
<discord-> B​utcher. — The wobbly stuff.
<discord-> e​gg. — um
<discord-> e​gg. — many things have wobbled in recent times
<discord-> e​gg. — but most things are merged now so probably yes
<discord-> e​gg. — unless you tested the stonesmile bug
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — sadly did not work
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — whatever
<discord-> B​utcher. — No, I haven't, I meant 2611. But that seems merged.
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — imagine just doing a small inclination change
<discord-> e​gg. — if they are not in the same plane then your velocity is not in the target orbital plane
<discord-> e​gg. — which means that in the target frame, your velocity is not in the reference plane
<discord-> e​gg. — which means you did not correctly align the thing into the navball plane
<discord-> e​gg. — also, show your trajectories in the target frame, don’t do this kind of projection trickery
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy labeled pull request #2649: Visual Studio 16.6.1 - https://git.io/JJsxm
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin closed pull request #2649: Visual Studio 16.6.1 - https://git.io/JJsxm
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin pushed 3 commits to master [+3/-0/±18] https://git.io/JJGkU
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin d5f1919 - Bump the Visual Studio version
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin e133430 - Merge remote-tracking branch 'la-vache/master' into 16.6.1
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin cbfc1bd - Merge pull request #2649 from eggrobin/16.6.1 Visual Studio 16.6.1
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] ensob1 starred Principia - https://git.io/JJGkk
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — well target frame
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — it's elliptic and not straight
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — so not aligned xd
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — but yes something went wrong in my launch, it's not the mods fault
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — it's me learning the mod that is the fault
<discord-> e​gg. — you seem to understand the « use the navball to launch into the moon’s plane » trick
<discord-> e​gg. — this is the same
<discord-> e​gg. — except s/moon/target/g
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<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin synchronize pull request #2650: Reference part offset - https://git.io/JJGfm
<discord-> e​gg. — note that the navball only tells you where you are pointing (and, with the velocity, which direction you are going in), *not* where you are
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4407/
<discord-> e​gg. — you need to be in the plane at launch (so up in-plane at launch) in order for following the plane to make any sense
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — yes I know what you mean
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I did that but my mistake was trying to put the prograde vector inside that plane instead of my actual ship
<discord-> e​gg. — yeah, you want both
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — while the prograde vector had a 300 m/s difference
<discord-> e​gg. — right, pesky rotating planet
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — ((
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Got an "encounter" though
<discord-> e​gg. — yeah that is a pretty close flyby
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I just can't believe how close you can get with your mod
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — it's so much easier than stock ksp
<discord-> e​gg. — fast, but close
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — for a 2 day difference that is very close
<discord-> e​gg. — yeah the target frame is a fan favourite
<discord-> e​gg. — I think there was a reddit thread about specifically the closeness of Principia approaches a long time ago
<discord-> e​gg. — 0 m :D
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — 😄
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — how do you get the flight planner to be the same reference plane though
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — how do you get the flight planner to be the same reference framethough (edited)
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — with target selection
<discord-> e​gg. — We don’t offer target-based frames for manœuvres
<discord-> e​gg. — this is a bit messy
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — ok so just eyeball it?
<discord-> e​gg. — yeah, fiddle with the sliders
<discord-> e​gg. — the problem with vessels is that they could have done engine things in the past, so they don’t work sanely for the past
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Eyeball does the trick as always
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [abseil-cpp] eggrobin pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://git.io/JJGk5
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [abseil-cpp] eggrobin a6543b6 - _MSC_VER
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — epic
<discord-> e​gg. — computer-aided eyeballing
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I hit the astroid with 0.1 m/s and it just moves us both away instantly with 5m/s
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — and now it's rotating
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — rip
<discord-> e​gg. — hehe
<discord-> e​gg. — and thanks to the egg, no stopping it with timewarp
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — wtf
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I can't grab it
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy labeled pull request #2650: Reference part offset - https://git.io/JJGfm
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — okay it actually worked this time
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — thought my game broke xd
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4407/
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin closed pull request #2650: Reference part offset - https://git.io/JJGfm
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin pushed 5 commits to master [+0/-0/±14] https://git.io/JJGIZ
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin ac52988 - Remove degrees_of_freedom
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin bb97614 - fix the tests
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin 118b2a7 - eliminate
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] ... and 2 more commits.
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — lol
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — My kerbal is technically orbiting an astroid now
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — oh idk what just happend
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — but I came out of timewarp
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — the astroid started spinning super fast
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — so then I got close with it with my kerbal
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I accidentally hit it
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — the thing started spinning around me and my game crashes
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — the thing started spinning around me and my game crashed (edited)
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — epic
<discord-> e​gg. — might be the collision bug
<discord-> e​gg. — quite a few bug fixes coming up in Gallai
<discord-> e​gg. — Can we calm down a little on the reaction images ? I’m fine with this channel being a bit noisy but let’s not overdo it
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — yeah I should invest in some nitro
<discord-> D​amien. — @Zeusbeer I noticed you have a lander. Do me a favour and put a craft in a polar orbit around the mun, and while focused on the orbiter, watch what the lander icon does
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Well my ksp is closed ((
<discord-> D​amien. — Ah
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — why though?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — it wasn't a lander and it was also grabbed to an astroid, so that mission would be quite tricky
<discord-> e​gg. — @Damien has a pet bug involving lander icons not moving with the surface
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — interesting
<discord-> D​amien. — I've got a bug where the lander moves in a circle in relation to the camera/the orbiter and not the surface. Part of that circle is subterranean and the lander is in full sunlight when underground even if the landing site is in darkness
<discord-> D​amien. — The sunlight thing is working as intended because of something to do with the textures/occlusion
<discord-> D​amien. — But the magical lander isn't
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I had a lander in polar orbit around moho
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — didn't notice it
<discord-> D​amien. — Lander on the surface, orbiter in orbit (as a relay for example)
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — okay didn't have that scenario
<discord-> _​felixu_. — If anyone remembers my super weird Principia installation issues from a month or two ago, I'd like to add that I've just done a brand new install with just RSS, and it seems to be working (at least from the tracking station)
<discord-> _​felixu_. — Timewarping a vessel on the pad works!
<discord-> _​felixu_. — It's worth noting I previously attempted installing Fuchs, and this is now Galileo
<discord-> _​felixu_. — Is this normal on the pad?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Have the same so probably yes
<discord-> e​gg. — yup
<discord-> e​gg. — if you are on the pad, your vessel is unmanageable
<discord-> e​gg. — i.e., ignored by Principia
<discord-> e​gg. — thus it has no prediction
<discord-> e​gg. — and thus no prediction settings
<discord-> l​pg. — don't prediction settings apply to more than the current vessel?
<discord-> e​gg. — nah, they are per-vessel
<discord-> e​gg. — the rationale being that your choice is almost-always mission-specific
<discord-> e​gg. — (since this is a setting with which you tend to fiddle often)
<discord-> B​utcher. — Can you set the default somewhere?
<discord-> l​pg. — I thought they applied to celestials
<discord-> e​gg. — (we should probably make it configurable somehow at some point, maybe in the blueprint)
<discord-> e​gg. — @lpg nope, the celestials work completely differently, they use different integration methods
<discord-> B​utcher. — @egg you make me sad.
<discord-> B​utcher. — Though my principia build is compiled now. 🤔
<discord-> e​gg. — you’re all set up to play Principia the Right Way
<discord-> e​gg. — in the IDE
<discord-> e​gg. — @Butcher we should probably make it configurable via config files (other numerics settings are there in the blueprint file already), but this is not a very high priority
<discord-> e​gg. — I’d like to improve analyser usability and then integrate it into the flight plan (enabling 57 varieties of +1 orbit in the burn editor)
<discord-> e​gg. — and probably look at insert & delete as a follow-up to rebase
<discord-> _​felixu_. — Okay, I'm loading my main install w/ Principia (obviously, I backed up my save).
<discord-> _​felixu_. — Fingers crossed!
<discord-> S​tandecco. — ??
<discord-> e​gg. — @Stonesmile Siamo tutti pazzi. Sono pazzo. Sei pazzo.
<discord-> e​gg. — @Standecco Siamo tutti pazzi. Sono pazzo. Sei pazzo. (edited)
<discord-> S​tandecco. — I'm asymptotically approaching craziness at this point. Why KSP, why??
<discord-> e​gg. — most of KSP operates (like all of Unity) in left-handed bases
<discord-> e​gg. — except half of the Orbit class
<discord-> e​gg. — mixing up handednesses is, of course, incredibly dangerous, because bivectors (pseudovectors for the physicists in the room) transform differently from vectors when you go through the looking-glass
<discord-> S​tandecco. — my question is why did they go out of their way to make the Orbit class right-handed?
<discord-> S​tandecco. — no wonder stuff wasn't working in my code
<discord-> e​gg. — > why did they go out of their way to make the Orbit class right-handed?
<discord-> e​gg. — I suspect so that the angular elements are counted in the conventional direction
<discord-> _​felixu_. — Timewarping works properly at the KSC and at the tracking station. YES!!
<discord-> _​felixu_. — Sorry if I ask some stupid beginner questions here in the next few days. I'm completely new to the mod
<discord-> _​felixu_. — Oh god, I need to do manual rendezvous now
<discord-> e​gg. — you have better tools though
<discord-> S​tandecco. — > I suspect so that the angular elements are counted in the conventional direction
<discord-> S​tandecco. — @egg seems to me like getting used to converting angular elements to keep the code consistent would've been easier in the long run, but maybe they realized this when it was too late
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Too much brain being disposed im a regular old discord
<discord-> e​gg. — converting the angular elements is kind of a mess, but they should probably have encapsulated the angles
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Wow
<discord-> e​gg. — and not exposed the right-handed stuff through their API
<discord-> e​gg. — but hey, API design and game development
<discord-> D​amien. — @Zeusbeer welcome to #principia, where you get smarter but feel more stupid
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — @egg Why on (or off) earth did i get a ping with the channel topic in italian?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Yes
<discord-> S​tandecco. — he meant to tag me @Stonesmile
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Ah, makes sense
<discord-> e​gg. — because your name starts with St
<discord-> e​gg. — and because the channel topic is precisely inspired by what Standecco has just discovered
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — Let's just hope they fix it in ksp 2...
<discord-> e​gg. — (admittedly the quotation is from Alice in Wonderland rather than Through the Looking-Glass, even though the whole thing involves a Looking-Glass)
<discord-> e​gg. — not quite sure what this KSP 2 hope thing is about
<discord-> e​gg. — it is a different game
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Xzy ;-:
<discord-> _​felixu_. — Could anyone offer me beginner advice for Principia rendezvous?
<discord-> e​gg. — hmm
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Turn navball to target
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — And its basically like setting up an encounter
<discord-> _​felixu_. — Brilliant, cheers
<discord-> _​felixu_. — Man, I can't wait for this awesomeness. I played this mod for about a week in stock a while back and all I remember is that I adored it
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — It's truly better than stock
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Thanks egg and others for putting a lot of your brain into this mod
<discord-> _​felixu_. — I know that. It's just gonna be a steep learning curve for me. I've become so accustomed to the convenience of asking MJ to do everything automatically for me
<discord-> e​gg. — well, some day MJ may catch up with Principia
<discord-> D​anieI. — do principia maneuvers change direction as they are executed
<discord-> D​anieI. — or are they one direction
<discord-> D​anieI. — im trying to execute a maneuver while only spin stabilized, no attitude control
<discord-> e​gg. — then you want to tick the *inertially fixed* checkbox
<discord-> e​gg. — inertially fixed, as in, in a fixed direction in an inertial frame, i.e., not turning
<discord-> D​anieI. — Nice
<discord-> D​anieI. — Wow that screwed it
<discord-> D​anieI. — How do I get it to show up on the navball?
<discord-> B​utcher. — > but hey, API design and game development
<discord-> B​utcher. — @egg never the twain shall meet?
<discord-> e​gg. — @DRVeyl I seem to periodically run into issues with proctanks nodes going away/moving in silly ways, corrupting my ships, is this a known issue?
<discord-> B​utcher. — How old is your proc tanks?
<discord-> D​anieI. — I'm so used to being able to stay in one direction per burn
<discord-> e​gg. — installed it no more than a couple of months ago
<discord-> e​gg. — (but did I install the right one?)
<discord-> B​utcher. — I recall it previously being a problem but I've not seen it in some time.
<discord-> e​gg. — > 1.3.18
<discord-> e​gg. — quoth the changelog
<discord-> e​gg. — I mostly followed links in the forum post or wiki, whichever one
<discord-> e​gg. — I think some links may be out of date
<discord-> e​gg. — > v2.0.4
<discord-> e​gg. — *slightly* out of date
<discord-> B​utcher. — Your version predates the attachment now rewrite.
<discord-> e​gg. — also, is there a working RSSVE (or whatever it is called these days, the setup atop scatterer and the like) for RO in the 1.8 world?
<discord-> B​utcher. — The 1.7.3 version works
<discord-> e​gg. — attachment now rewrite?
<discord-> B​utcher. — Node
<discord-> D​anieI. — How efficient is a straight prograde burn vs an inertial fixed one for raising your apoapsis
<discord-> B​utcher. — Your version predates the attachment node rewrite. (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — less so
<discord-> e​gg. — uh
<discord-> e​gg. — more so rather
<discord-> B​utcher. — Inertial fixed is less efficient.
<discord-> B​utcher. — Unless you have no guidance there's no reason to use them.
<discord-> D​anieI. — Not burning straight on the periapsis causes you to waste dv in a normal direction right?
<discord-> e​gg. — indeed
<discord-> D​anieI. — That's why my argument of periapsis always changes when I'm doing a simple apoapsis raising
<discord-> D​anieI. — It's as if I'm doing a normal burn somewhat
<discord-> _​felixu_. — so I'd normally be getting 50+ fps in this situation, but with Principia it's about 25. Is it my rig?
<discord-> D​anieI. — Is principia multi threaded
<discord-> e​gg. — yes
<discord-> _​felixu_. — Yes to me or Daniel?
<discord-> e​gg. — to DanieI (whose name is apparently not Daniel)
<discord-> e​gg. — as for the specifics of your particular setup and performance, dunno
<discord-> D​anieI. — where is the show on navball button?
<discord-> e​gg. — it requires whichever tracking station upgrade
<discord-> e​gg. — @Sir Mortimer knows
<discord-> D​anieI. — ahhh that makes sense
<discord-> _​felixu_. — My setup is fairly strong on single core, but multi-core is lacking somewhat. I don't usually notice that though, because KSP is KSP
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — Butcher took care of ya. Yeah, 1.3.18 is before any of my rewrite. 🙂
<discord-> e​gg. — yeah, not sure how I ended up downloading that one but it is ancient
<discord-> e​gg. — this is particularly weird considering I got this in mid-June…
<discord-> D​anieI. — are there any exotic benefits to plotting a maneuver in any certain frames
<discord-> e​gg. — it’s vital
<discord-> e​gg. — and even stock KSP does it, without saying so
<discord-> e​gg. — when you are operating in LKO, it shows you things Kerbin-centred, not heliocentric
<discord-> e​gg. — because seeing that you corkscrew around the sun is not very helpful
<discord-> D​anieI. — prograde is different in different frames right
<discord-> e​gg. — yup, just like in stock surface vs. orbit is different
<discord-> e​gg. — but Principia helps you by showing you a map view that is consistent with the markers
<discord-> e​gg. — so forward on the ball is always along the map view trajectory
<discord-> D​anieI. — but
<discord-> D​anieI. — prograde is the most efficient direction burn in right?
<discord-> D​anieI. — because like kinetic energy and stuff and cosine losses
<discord-> e​gg. — it is the direction in which all your energy is spent increasing your kinetic energy *in the current reference frame*
<discord-> B​utcher. — It depends what you're trying to do.
<discord-> D​anieI. — wait is kinetic energy also relative
<discord-> D​anieI. — omg i hate this
<discord-> D​anieI. — it makes sense but goes against all my intuitions
<discord-> e​gg. — sure, in the reference frame centred of New Horizons, New Horizons does not move
<discord-> e​gg. — therefore it has vanishing linear momentum and kinetic energy
<discord-> B​utcher. — Not all orbital mechanics is intuitive.
<discord-> e​gg. — and the Solar System is running away at an alarming speed
<discord-> D​anieI. — is there any benefit to plotting in earth moon barycentric vs earth central
<discord-> F​arrier. — What does d6 mean? 🤔
<discord-> e​gg. — six-hour day
<discord-> e​gg. — (not six-sided die)
<discord-> M​ultyino. — was just wondering does principia simulate flux in the gravitational field ? like that cause probes to crash into the moon ?
<discord-> M​ultyino. — my moon orbiter just vanished and i am wondering if thats maybe the reason
<discord-> e​gg. — yup, the moon eats satellites
<discord-> D​anieI. — wow how did you manage that
<discord-> D​anieI. — you'd have to important gravity maps from real life or something
<discord-> e​gg. — yes
<discord-> D​anieI. — :0
<discord-> D​anieI. — do modded planets have access to this feature
<discord-> e​gg. — if they feel like computing spherical harmonics, modders can do that, yes
<discord-> e​gg. — @Multyino as I previously said, let’s calm down on the reaction images
<discord-> D​anieI. — wha
<discord-> D​anieI. — is it not just like, a heightmap but with gravity
<discord-> M​ultyino. — first reaction gif lol
<discord-> e​gg. — This channel is a bit noisy and scattered and that’s fine, let’s not overdo it :-)
<discord-> e​gg. — This channel is a bit noisy and scattered and that’s fine, but let’s not overdo it :-) (edited)
<discord-> M​ultyino. — but are u joking ? that would explain why my pc is crying
<discord-> D​anieI. — holy shit
<discord-> e​gg. — there is some clever logic to range-limit it though
<discord-> e​gg. — so you only get the finer details if you are in very low orbit
<discord-> D​anieI. — whats the logic
<discord-> e​gg. — (otherwise yes, everything would grind to a halt)
<discord-> D​anieI. — combining functions of increasing orders
<discord-> D​anieI. — how familiar
<discord-> e​gg. — @DanieI bottom of page 5 and following https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/blob/master/documentation/Geopotential.pdf
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — GRAIL is still the only source for data on the moon right?
<discord-> D​anieI. — i can only understand math after coffee so ill save this for later
<discord-> e​gg. — @Stonesmile I don’t think so, but it is by far the mission that gave us the most data
<discord-> M​ultyino. — to mayn coloms
<discord-> e​gg. — much like GRACE and GOCE are the primary source for Earth stuff
<discord-> D​anieI. — glad to know my satellites will last like 12 hours
<discord-> e​gg. — it depends, some orbits are long-lived
<discord-> M​ultyino. — column {order: 3, cos: 2.5046335396041e-07, sin: -2.1709707579017e-07}, just wondering why u have cos and sin in there ?
<discord-> e​gg. — spherical harmonics
<discord-> e​gg. — these are the factors that multiply a cosine and a sine in the computation of the potential
<discord-> D​anieI. — reminds me of that thing where you add up polynomial terms of increasing orders to approximate any function
<discord-> e​gg. — similar idea, but spherical harmonics
<discord-> D​anieI. — next simulate kessler syndrome
<discord-> D​anieI. — For extra ~~masochism~~ realism
<discord-> D​anieI. — Why did principia start simulating rotation in warp?
<discord-> e​gg. — Because it was an interesting problem
<discord-> D​anieI. — are tidal forces simulated 👀
<discord-> e​gg. — nope
<discord-> D​anieI. — aw
<discord-> e​gg. — I think if we wanted to start looking at long-term effects on rotation, SRP would dominate
<discord-> e​gg. — (solar radiation pressure)
<discord-> M​ultyino. — ok this is going to far
<discord-> D​anieI. — dont some satellites stay oriented with tidal forces or am I literally insane
<discord-> e​gg. — I think there are some things with tethers like that, yes, but this is not very common
<discord-> D​anieI. — if I put fins on my rocket it will slowly oriented with the sun
<discord-> D​anieI. — if I put fins on my rocket it will slowly orient with the sun (edited)
<discord-> D​anieI. — Instead of an airstream it's a radiation stream
<discord-> e​gg. — in real life, SRP would do things, yes
<discord-> e​gg. — but Principia doesn’t do SRP at this time
<discord-> e​gg. — so not in-game
<discord-> M​ultyino. — wouldent that push the spacercraft to ?
<discord-> D​anieI. — Yes
<discord-> M​ultyino. — like solar sails
<discord-> B​utcher. — Solar sails please
<discord-> D​anieI. — It's something that engineers have to account for
<discord-> e​gg. — yup, SRP models are a big thing
<discord-> e​gg. — lots of stuff about that in the GNSS literature
<discord-> D​anieI. — They even have to account for radiation from their own components
<discord-> D​anieI. — Voyager had/has that problem I believe
<discord-> M​ultyino. — maybe u could combine that with the kerbalism solar storms
<discord-> A​nomaly. — Oh, I didn't know Principia modelled mascons!
<discord-> B​utcher. — My first lunar orbiter this career fell victim to them.
<discord-> e​gg. — it seems to be a rite of passage
<discord-> e​gg. — or perhaps just a rite
<discord-> B​utcher. — Second one is still there about two years in.
<discord-> e​gg. — gotta keep sacrificing orbiters to the Moon to keep the lunar cycle going
<discord-> e​gg. — so that the new moon comes
<discord-> e​gg. — and with it the release
<discord-> D​anieI. — Make it so i slightly deorbit the moon with gravity assists
<discord-> B​utcher. — Third orbiter out there now, after engine failure on a lander mission.
<discord-> M​ultyino. — lets just use the L3 point ( that one between the moon and earth direactly
<discord-> D​anieI. — You know what would be cool
<discord-> M​ultyino. — lets just use the L3 point ( that one between the moon and earth direactly ) (edited)
<discord-> D​anieI. — orbiting asteroids
<discord-> e​gg. — between the Earth and Moon is L1
<discord-> M​ultyino. — lets just use the L1 point ( that one between the moon and earth direactly ) (edited)
<discord-> D​anieI. — Does principia model asteroid gravity?
<discord-> e​gg. — the order is L3 Earth L1 Moon L2
<discord-> e​gg. — nope, asteroids are vessels, vessels are massless
<discord-> D​anieI. — Makes sense
<discord-> D​anieI. — If they did have gravity a very very very very dedicated user could maneuver them to deorbit the moon or something
<discord-> M​ultyino. — no
<discord-> D​anieI. — That's obviously not the reason why they are massless itd just be a funny consequence of if they weren't massless
<discord-> M​ultyino. — > That's obviously not the reason why they are massless itd just be a funny consequence of if they weren't massless
<discord-> M​ultyino. — @DanieI maybe kick out deimos or smth
<discord-> M​ultyino. — can u even do that ?
<discord-> D​anieI. — No
<discord-> D​anieI. — Itd be cool if I could
<discord-> l​amont. — they aren't technically massless, they're just sources of inertia and not gravity
<discord-> D​anieI. — Take a pet deimos home with me
<discord-> M​ultyino. — 1,8 · 1015 kg
<discord-> M​ultyino. — 1,8 · E15 kg deimos (edited)
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<discord-> D​anieI. — he's big boned ok
<discord-> s​iimav. — @egg for clobbering the status to Prelaunch in airlaunch - how would I know when Principia has done it's magic? 250 WaitForFixedUpdates in a coroutine did the trick but 1 wasn't enough.
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<discord-> e​gg. — huh
<discord-> e​gg. — @siimav I think it’s sort of the other direction
<discord-> e​gg. — if it’s prelaunch, we don’t see the vessel ; so we need the « other bits » to have done their magic
<discord-> e​gg. — before you let it go out of prelaunch
<discord-> e​gg. — maybe the « other bits » are stock ? or you ?
<discord-> s​iimav. — Hmm, right
<discord-> e​gg. — good to know that hitting it with a very large hammer goes in the right direction though
<discord-> e​gg. — @lamont yes, general relativity fails with Principia
<discord-> e​gg. — and inert mass and weighing mass are distinct :-)
<discord-> s​iimav. — I guess I'm just going to try a few different WaitForFixedUpdate counts
<discord-> e​gg. — If I had to guess I’d say you set something in one frame, and you need to fully wait for the next frame for the various bits of the game to pick that up before you feed the unsuspecting vessel to Principia
<discord-> e​gg. — which I guess would be achieved by 2 ?
<discord-> e​gg. — but guessing things about KSP is a fool’s game
<discord-> e​gg. — see the earlier parachute cursedness…
<discord-> s​iimav. — Nope, 2 wasn't enough
<discord-> s​iimav. — 5 wasn't enough
<discord-> e​gg. — hmmmm
<discord-> e​gg. — there is this physics easing thing iirc
<discord-> s​iimav. — 15 wasn't enough
<discord-> e​gg. — easingFrameIncrease = 0.0625;
<discord-> e​gg. — 1/16
<discord-> e​gg. — try 17 or so?
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