raptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Galileo. We currently target 1.5.1, 1.6.1, 1.7.x, 1.8.1, and 1.9.1. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
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<discord->
Falcon. — just to back up Stonesmile here, i just did 2 launches with no issues in regards to part disfigurement, launched a mission with a crew capsule and it disfigured on separation of the CSM with the upper stage. I am on the new test version that you gave me a few days ago^^ @egg
<discord->
lpg. — wild hunch: the 100kg kerbal mass strikes again?
<discord->
lpg. — (if so, RO master branch has gotten rid of it)
<discord->
Falcon. — would it really do that?
<discord->
Falcon. — will check with that tomorrow
<discord->
Falcon. — its late here and i dont feel like booting up KSP again ...
<discord->
Anomaly. — I thought Kerbalism had gotten rid of it a long time ago
<discord->
Falcon. — not that i know of
<discord->
Falcon. — i still had 100 kg kerbals
<discord->
Falcon. — im on version 0.9.1 for Kerbalism RO Config
<discord->
Falcon. — kerbalism itself is 3.9
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<discord->
Sirius. — I'm about to do my first Venus/Mars flyby, how I should plan it and do it?
<discord->
Anomaly. — Shouldn't be that unstable.
<discord->
Anomaly. — You sure you're in the right place?
<discord->
Anomaly. — Although you're very good, I spent my first hour in Principia figuring out how to use the maneouvre planner
<discord->
Damien. — @Zeusbeer playing with kerbin L1/2 (I'm assuming that's Kerbin) takes some really small burns. Like RCS at 0.5% thrust small
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — Yeah, I noticed that
<discord->
Damien. — it's stable for about 5d on stock. a month or so in RSS
<discord->
Damien. — Earth-Sun L1/2 are a couple of years between stationkeeps
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — I wish there was an option where you could just press a button and it would stay there using a tiny amount of fuel every few days
<discord->
Damien. — we all do
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — it's so mesmerizing looking at the mun from there
<discord->
Damien. — try and make an orbit that transitions you from Mun L1 to L2 and back again
<discord->
Damien. — that's always a fun trick to do
<discord->
Damien. — you can transition to any of the other lagrange points for fairly cheap once you're in one
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — true
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — I'll try going interplanetary first, because that has always been a thing I struggled with the most with principia
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — Are the launch windows the same as in stock?
<discord->
Damien. — more or less
<discord->
Damien. — use TWP for a good approximation
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — TWP?
<discord->
Damien. — transfer window planner
<discord->
Damien. — then plan a maneuver that ejects prograde or retrograde from kerbin depending on where you're going and use duna centered sun aligned and tweak your transfer
<discord->
Damien. — then plan a maneuver that ejects prograde or retrograde from kerbin depending on where you're going and use duna centered sun aligned (if going there) and tweak your transfer (edited)
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — Aight
<discord->
Damien. — once you get close switch to Duna Centered Inertial and fine tune you capture
<discord->
Damien. — once you get close switch to Duna Centered Inertial and fine tune your capture (edited)
<discord->
Damien. — it'll make sense once you try it
<discord->
Anomaly. — Oh, I think Ike is too large.
<discord->
Anomaly. — Not sure though.
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — pretty sure it is, and it's in a really close orbit
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<discord->
Profiremu23. — I thoght is impossible to make n-body physics work on stock scale
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<discord->
Damien. — no it works fine
<discord->
Damien. — principia wasn't designed with RSS in mind I don't think
<discord->
egg. — > launched a mission with a crew capsule and it disfigured on separation of the CSM with the upper stage.
<discord->
egg. — @Falcon see my reply to @Stonesmile, give us a journal
<discord->
Farrier. — Hi all. I'm trying out Principia on a stock game. Did everything with Mun and now is Minmus' turn and... I can't figure out how to match inclination. 😖 Not as a part of a maneuver, but just being on the orbit around Kerbin. Any advice?
<discord->
Farrier. — Hi all. I'm trying out Principia on a stock game. Did everything with Mun and now is Minmus' turn and... I can't figure out how to match inclination (besides eyeballing it of coarse). 😖 Not as a part of a maneuver, but just being on the orbit around Kerbin. Any advice? (edited)
<discord->
Damien. — @Farrier if you're eyeballing a launch, the navball midline when in minmus centred kerbin aligned is the orbital plane of minmus. Launch and pitch along that line and it'll will get your reasonably close. Once in orbit, you can use the an/dn markers to do an inclination correction burn just as in stock
<discord->
Damien. — @Farrier if you're eyeballing a launch, the navball midline when in minmus centred kerbin aligned is the orbital plane of minmus. Launch and pitch along that line and it'll will get you reasonably close. Once in orbit, you can use the an/dn markers to do an inclination correction burn just as in stock (edited)
<discord->
Farrier. — I'm probably too stupid for that. 😅 For now I just want to match inclination before planning a maneuver to Minmus.
<discord->
Damien. — just get into a reference frame where the AN/DN is relative to minmus' orbital plane around kerbin and do an inclination correction burn
<discord->
Farrier. — By how much and + or -? There's no degrees on AN/DN markers like in stock. 😦
<discord->
Damien. — I'm no in game so doing this from memory but isn't there a delta v readout?
<discord->
Damien. — I'm not in game so doing this from memory but isn't there a delta v readout? (edited)
<_whitenotifier-d13c>
[Principia] eggrobin commented on issue #2643: Game Crashes When Launching New Game (RO-RP-0) - https://git.io/JJO5R
<discord->
egg. — yeah there is speed out-of-plane
<discord->
Damien. — if it's the AN then you'll be burning down, DN, burning up
<discord->
egg. — and by the amount given
<discord->
Damien. — @egg the fact that principia uses the 'real' names for normal, radial etc makes it really confusing to explain things to people
<discord->
Damien. — 😄
<discord->
egg. — hehe
<discord->
Damien. — doubly so when I barely play any more and have to try and remember
<discord->
Farrier. — Thanks! Didn't realize what these numbers were.
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<discord->
Stonesmile. — After testing with the latest RO master, the issue remains, so not kerbal mass issues, i will provide journals when a non-KRASH vessel reaches orbit
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — For minmus im always to lazy to launch into inclination
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — Take the decending or ascending node and just plan a manoeuvre where you burn prograde till you get close to minmus
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — If your not in the right launch window just put more prograde till minmus catches you so to say
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — The extra delta V is worth the lazyness but the mission might be longer in terms of travel time
<discord->
Damien. — I try to launch into plane wherever possible because it's good practice for orbital rendezvous
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — I apply the same lazyness to orbital rendezvous xD
<discord->
Damien. — lol
<discord->
Stonesmile. — @egg what is the most convenient way to submit the JOURNAL file?
<discord->
Damien. — timestamped to the launch into plane trick
<discord->
egg. — which means that you should launch when the rocket (which points up) points into that plane (as that means that up as seen from the pad is into the plane)
<discord->
egg. — yeah the ABRiN video is good
<discord->
egg. — (I would recommend the orange navball rather than the purple one in general but here they are equivalent)
<discord->
egg. — @Farrier, @Zeusbeer ^ launching into plane by hand, the Principia way
<discord->
Farrier. — 😮
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — that's pretty badass
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — now I can be lazy without being lazy
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — thanks man
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — I actually want to play real solar system now
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — I always hated launching into the plane of the moon, but now it's super easy
<discord->
egg. — the fact that the camera follows the reference plane in map view also makes it easier to look at things
<discord->
egg. — (compared to stock RSS where everything is tilted because the Earth is)
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — principia > stock
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<discord->
Farrier. — Why did they have to do these sliders instead of normal +/- buttons? :< They're so fiddly on large distances.
<discord->
Damien. — 🍿
<discord->
Farrier. — I mean sliders are good for quick initial plotting, but a couple +/- buttons beside the bar for precise tuning would be great. xD Probably the reasoning is that you won't be able to execute maneuver precisely anyway?
<discord->
Stonesmile. — If you need that precision, then you can edit the numerical value in the box
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<discord->
Farrier. — Right.
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<discord->
lpg. — what should those +- buttons do? add 1? 100? 0.001?
<discord->
lpg. — you'd need 50 buttons to get something equally useful to the edit boxes
<discord->
Damien. — precisenode has a good system imo
<discord->
Damien. — buttons for 1, 0.1, .01 etc then up/down buttons
<discord->
Stonesmile. — The sliders are a bit annoying until you learn them, but the exponential nature of them make them very useful
<discord->
lpg. — really what's needed is +/- buttons for the +/- buttons 😛
<discord->
Damien. — set your increment then left or right click
<discord->
lpg. — "left or right click" strikes me as truly awful for discoverability
<discord->
Damien. — the sliders are good until they aren't and you overshoot stuff
<discord->
Damien. — @lpg true but it's used in things like B9 procwings etc too
<discord->
lpg. — ah yes, a shining example of good UI that
<discord->
Damien. — haha definitely
<discord->
Farrier. — > what should those +- buttons do? add 1? 100? 0.001?
<discord->
Farrier. — @lpg I'd say 0.1 as it the least increment as I understand.
<discord->
Damien. — I used to use precisenode all the time before using principia
<discord->
Damien. — can't really fault it
<discord->
egg. — nah, you can work with increments much smaller than 0.1 m/s
<discord->
egg. — see Reach’s recent video
<discord->
egg. — where everything is in millimetres per second
<discord->
egg. — Principia gives you things that are extraordinarily dependent on small changes in initial conditions sometimes
<discord->
egg. — (and then sometimes it is in the other direction)
<discord->
egg. — hence the idea of the exponential
<discord->
egg. — it’s not perfect, but it works for getting a quick first guess and then now that you have text input you can refine with that if needed
<discord->
Damien. — I don't mind the slider too much except for when it's really granular
<discord->
Damien. — Reach is using reduced time speed too right?
<discord->
egg. — yeah
<discord->
Damien. — well, that and him being some kind of cyborg
<discord->
egg. — also is very good
<discord->
egg. — yes, that
<discord->
Stonesmile. — @egg did you see the link i sent to the journal file?
<discord->
egg. — yes, we will look at that at some point
<discord->
Farrier. — > nah, you can work with increments much smaller than 0.1 m/s
<discord->
Farrier. — @egg indeed mm/s is the smallest
<discord->
Farrier. — Also, is it not possible to delete a specific maneuver point, only the last one? ><
<discord->
egg. — indeed
<discord->
egg. — I suppose to an extent this is a legacy of the days when the flight plan was strictly append-only, and you could only change the first manœuvre; now with the concept of anomalous manœuvres we could have insertion (and deletion to match)
<discord->
lpg. — next, saving and loading flight plans 😋
<discord->
Farrier. — I’ve no idea what that means by I agree. xD Would be nice to insert a node in between for correcting a trajectory a bit. After you spent 10 minutes on tweaking the final node.
<discord->
egg. — It means that things have slowly improved over time, because we have been at it for five years
<discord->
egg. — so some things are bizarre because they were in line with other restrictions that are now gone
<discord->
egg. — it used to be that you could only edit the last manœuvre of the flight plan
<discord->
egg. — because editing manœuvres before the last means that the last one may become « anomalous », i.e., the plan may end before it is scheduled (e.g. because you run into a stray planet)
<discord->
egg. — and that requires a lot of special handling
<discord->
egg. — eventually we added support for anomalous manœuvres, and with that, for edition of manœuvres other than the last
<discord->
egg. — but we did not add insertion
<discord->
egg. — nor did we add rebasing, which can also lead to anomalies
<discord->
egg. — rebasing will be added in the upcoming version
<_whitenotifier-d13c>
[Principia] WC12366 opened issue #2645: Why more celestials won't cause performance problem - https://git.io/JJONZ
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<_whitenotifier-d13c>
[Principia] pleroy commented on issue #2645: Why more celestials won't cause performance problem - https://git.io/JJOxi
<_whitenotifier-d13c>
[Principia] pleroy closed issue #2645: Why more celestials won't cause performance problem - https://git.io/JJONZ
<discord->
Falcon. — So once i have gone through the event that i think is the issue egg, i just go and copy the journal and send it to you?
<discord->
Falcon. — and which one is the .log file? the one named INFO?
<discord->
egg. — the journal is the file named JOURNAL
<discord->
egg. — if there is none, it means you have not turned journalling on
<discord->
Falcon. — i see the journal
<discord->
Falcon. — but it said in the wiki that you sent with instructions, to send the Journal and info
<discord->
Falcon. — but it said in the wiki that you sent with instructions, to send the Journal and log (edited)
<discord->
egg. — ah
<discord->
egg. — yeah, send the INFO, it can’t hurt
<discord->
Falcon. — omfg... the Journal is 5.8 GB?
<discord->
egg. — yes
<discord->
Falcon. — that will take awhile to upload...
<discord->
lpg. — motivation to find the quickest steps from "turn on journal" to "bug reproduced"
<discord->
lpg. — my recollection is that the file compresses fairly well, though
<discord->
scimas. — @Falcon did you try to compress the file before uploading? I've never created a journal, but the log files usually compress well.
<discord->
Stonesmile. — The issue seems to be present in stock...
<discord->
egg. — stock as in without Principia?
<discord->
Stonesmile. — No, with principia, but nothing else
<discord->
egg. — OK, steps to reproduce?
<discord->
Stonesmile. — Have capsule as root part, launch into space, have something attached to capsule, warp, exit warp
<discord->
egg. — what kind of capsule
<discord->
Stonesmile. — Currently Mk 2
<discord->
egg. — There is no Mk2
<discord->
egg. — there is an Mk1 and an Mk1-3
<discord->
egg. — well, there is an Mk2 but that is a cockpit
<discord->
egg. — not a capsule
<discord->
Stonesmile. — Oh, that might be making history
<discord->
Stonesmile. — I'll switch to mk 1-3
<discord->
Falcon. — Stonesmile would you be willing to do a journal so that Egg can compare between the 2?
<discord->
Stonesmile. — In stock?
<discord->
Falcon. — Principia is Principia is it not?
<discord->
Falcon. — Egg can speak for it, i just thought that him having more source material would help out
<discord->
Stonesmile. — Using mk 1-3 seems to be fine after first test... so it's only some capsules???
<discord->
Falcon. — do you need anything more from me btw Egg? because im wanting to continue my career and this bug in the current version is preventing me from doing that, so im wanting to roll back to Fuchs
<discord->
egg. — @Stonesmile and you say that it only does that if this mystery capsule is the root part?
<discord->
egg. — @Falcon if that root part thing is true, then you just need to make some other part root if you want to work around the issue
<discord->
Falcon. — does "control from" change the root part?
<discord->
Falcon. — because this is a rocket i have already rolled out
<discord->
DRVeyl. — It does not. The root part is defined in the VAB and is the first part in the corner aft file
<discord->
DRVeyl. — It does not. The root part is defined in the VAB and is the first part in the craft file (edited)
<discord->
Falcon. — yeah then i screwed that one up, will just launch and run that in fuchs and play around with others...
<discord->
egg. — @Stonesmile I tried using a root part with extreme CoM offset (J-X4), and the spacecraft does not appear to deform, so I guess that isn’t it
<discord->
egg. — that particular capsule may have some stupid gimmick that makes it broken?
<discord->
Falcon. — Im using ROCapsules Command Module
<discord->
egg. — well, you are using the making history Mk2
<discord->
Falcon. — me?
<discord->
Falcon. — i dont have that mod
<discord->
Stonesmile. — It could be an issue with making history mk 2 that is included in some capsules in ROCapsules... if so, what could it be?
<discord->
egg. — @Stonesmile OK so looking at your journal, we do not see unnormalized quaternion issues
<discord->
egg. — are you really sure that the issue was there in test2602?
<discord->
Stonesmile. — That journal is from 2626 i think... Do you want another from 2602?
<discord->
egg. — no
<discord->
egg. — the question is not where the journal is, 2626 is fine
<discord->
egg. — the question is where the bug is
<discord->
egg. — and if it is there in 2602, given that we see nothing weird related to what had changed between fuchs and 2602 in that journal, this really makes no sense
<discord->
Stonesmile. — I'll test it again on 2602 just to be sure
<discord->
egg. — note that the UI mentions the version name, so you can double-check against that in game
<discord->
egg. — it is easy to mix up all the versions
<discord->
egg. — (ask me how I know)
<discord->
Stonesmile. — Yeah, i'll check the in-game window
<discord->
Stonesmile. — Yeah, can confirm that the issue is there in 2602...
<discord->
egg. — OK, this officially makes no sense
<discord->
Stonesmile. — How about a warning message and sweep the issue under the rug?😅
<discord->
badgermasher. — Troubleshooting a craft right now. So if something starts spinning rapidly if I enable hack gravity, it's fair to say principia is not involved in the problem?
<discord->
badgermasher. — Troubleshooting a craft right now. So if something starts spinning rapidly if I enable hack gravity, it's fair to say principia is not involved in that problem? (edited)
<discord->
badgermasher. — Troubleshooting a craft right now. ~~So if something starts spinning rapidly if I enable hack gravity, it's fair to say principia is not involved in that problem?~~ Definitely not my problem in this case (edited)