raptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Galileo. We currently target 1.5.1, 1.6.1, 1.7.x, 1.8.1, and 1.9.1. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
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<discord->
RurouniDonut. — Here's a purple noodle rainbow
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — I should wait till angle to prograde is 360-270
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — ;-;
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — now I gave the south pole a network
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — now I do it all again but actually correct this time and with 3 sats instead of one where I put Kerbal alarms for an 8 hour launch difference
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — no wait that was not the mistake
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — I could have just done my raising burn on the other side of earth *facepalm*
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<discord->
egg. — @Zeusbeer well, depending on the longitude I suppose you might have a network for Argentina or Chile
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — yes
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — I did the entire network now for Russia
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — it took 56 minutes to do lol
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — it's not perfect but close enough
<discord->
egg. — what does the orbital analysis window say?
<discord->
egg. — OK so drifting by 12 km over a week
<discord->
egg. — (see the bottom section)
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — mhm
<discord->
egg. — the « recurrence » section says it autodected it as semisynchronous, and the one after that says how close it stays to the nominal ground track
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — Got it to 3km
<discord->
egg. — to be honest you probably want to look at a longer interval than 7 days
<discord->
egg. — rather annoyingly, minimizing the drift over a few days is not equivalent to minimizing it over a longer duration
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — yes
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — I got them all to <3km drift
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — over 7 days
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — can't get them closer, even for longer durations
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — just my brain is too small xd
<discord->
egg. — well, over longer durations you would get more drift obviously. The thing is that you want to minimize it over long durations rather than short durations (you want to maximize the time between stationkeeping burns)
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — StAtIoNkEePiNg ;-;
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — the one thing annoying about principia
<discord->
egg. — yeah, the part where you notice that you are missing your spacecraft operations team :-p
<discord->
Multyino. — how do u fix this i lituraly have 2 fps
<discord->
egg. — you are requesting one thousand steps of prediction at a one metre tolerance
<discord->
Multyino. — max history length 0 right ?
<discord->
egg. — history = past
<discord->
egg. — prediction = future
<discord->
Multyino. — ok that makes sense then
<discord->
Multyino. — so i should get the steps down ?
<discord->
egg. — your screen is filled with spam because you are asking for what will happen to your spacecraft and the solar system over multiple days, with respect to the surface
<discord->
egg. — to which the answer is "spin around", since the Earth rotates
<discord->
egg. — so ask for less of it, and you will get less of it
<discord->
DanieI. — I need some advice for my moon impactor
<discord->
DanieI. — Principia isnt giving me accurate burn times because it cant take into account the decoupling between the avionics and the unguided stage
<raptop>
Make sure the cameras switch on, and don't miss the moon
<discord->
Multyino. — what is this bot
<discord->
DanieI. — Irc
<discord->
DanieI. — IRC
<discord->
egg. — you need to create the flight plan after decoupling
<discord->
Multyino. — having same problem
<discord->
egg. — same answer.
<discord->
DanieI. — how do I orient?
<discord->
DanieI. — it's an unguided stage
<discord->
egg. — I suppose the answer is "use the rebase button" in Gallai
<discord->
Multyino. — so u must rotate before knowing the direction ?
<discord->
DanieI. — I also cant even ignite because the bottom stage provides ullage in the form of rcs
<discord->
egg. — (rebase will take into account the new configuration)
<discord->
egg. — but at some point, esp. with the ullage stuff, the answer is "the flight plan cannot deal with sufficiently complicated vessels accurately"
<discord->
egg. — and the answer is also that you should not rely solely on the timing
<discord->
egg. — you should look at map view, and cut off accordingly
<discord->
Multyino. — pretty hard when u have engines with twr of like 5-10
<discord->
DanieI. — ^
<discord->
DanieI. — will instant impulse help?
<discord->
egg. — I mean, if you make spacecraft that are hard to fly, that is your problem
<discord->
DanieI. — Then I could use the naval burn time and extended burn time
<discord->
DanieI. — Then I could use the nav burn time and extended burn time (edited)
<discord->
lpg. — some people use Better Burn Time's <1x timewarp
<discord->
Multyino. — > some people use Better Burn Time's <1x timewarp
<discord->
Multyino. — @lpg good idea
<discord->
lpg. — I find just increasing prediction length slows my machine down enough to get a similar effect 😛
<discord->
egg. — much like I recommend not trying out Principia for the first time launching from the cape, you make your life harder
<discord->
egg. — Principia radically changes the gameplay in most aspects with respect to non-Principia, so being a KSP veteran doesn’t help that much; start easy
<discord->
DanieI. — Fair enough
<discord->
DanieI. — tried bettertimewarp and .01x time warp
<discord->
DanieI. — Might be the solution I need
<discord->
Multyino. — ye and maybe sep motors could make ullage
<discord->
Multyino. — *provide
<discord->
egg. — (but again, you can’t just do closed-loop, i.e., using the timer ; you have to look at map view, because the flight plan will never model ullage thrust, ignition delays, etc.)
<discord->
DanieI. — I once tried making a maneuver executor in kos that was open
<discord->
DanieI. — It would try and match the final conic with the one from the maneuver
<discord->
DanieI. — Never got it to work it's very hard problem
<discord->
egg. — (but again, you can’t just do open-loop, i.e., using the timer ; you have to look at map view, because the flight plan will never model ullage thrust, ignition delays, etc.) (edited)
<discord->
egg. — @Multyino and yes, as @DanieI said, @鹊桥IRC is a bot that acts as a bridge to the IRC channel (#principia on esper.net), as its name indicates
<raptop>
And definitely not a bot that's become self-aware
<discord->
Multyino. — ~~dident know that KI is so far developed~~
<discord->
Multyino. — but ye makes sense if u know what it is
<discord->
DanieI. — If I use instant impulse would the navball burntime be accurate
<discord->
egg. — no, why would it be?
<discord->
DanieI. — Because the navball assumes it's an instant impulse already
<discord->
egg. — no it doesn’t, it is completely driven by Principia
<discord->
egg. — stop assuming that any of this works like stock KSP, we have to kill most of KSP’s logic in order to show stuff on the navball
<discord->
egg. — instant impulse just makes Principia assumes that the thrust is « very high »
<discord->
egg. — if anything that makes it a mess to execute, because the node will correspondingly disappear « very quickly »
<discord->
egg. — the only reason to use instant impulse is as a fallback, when for boring technical reasons (e.g., solids) you cannot activate your engine so that Principia figures out what engines will be used for the burn
<discord->
Butcher. — My Molniya sat has died, engine failed during the first in orbit maoeuvre.
<discord->
Butcher. — My Molniya sat has died, engine failed during the first in orbit manoeuvre. (edited)
<discord->
egg. — I believe the customary answer is :agathorn:
<discord->
Butcher. — This is what I get for using the protype engine.
<discord->
Butcher. — This is what I get for using the prototype engine. (edited)
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<discord->
DanieI. — Well I need a fallback atm
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — oof the molniya master race
<discord->
Multyino. — > oof the molniya master race
<discord->
Multyino. — @Zeusbeer just no
<discord->
DanieI. — I can do the math needed for instant impulse burn times on the back of my hand
<discord->
DanieI. — I could manually find out how long I'd need to do if I had my predicted burn weight
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — getting a full molniya system is so tedious
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — It took me 1 hour and that's not even with the complete RO
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — just smurff
<discord->
Butcher. — I'm just doing a contract sat launch into a molniya orbit.
<discord->
Butcher. — Except I'm not now because my engine failed so I need a new rocket.
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — oh just 1
<discord->
Butcher. — Luckily these things take 23 days to build.
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — how much time for deadline?
<discord->
Butcher. — So I can just throw together a new one.
<discord->
Butcher. — 323 days.
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — oh yu have like 15 tries
<discord->
Butcher. — My VAB is pretty fast
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — xd
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — oh you have like 15 tries (edited)
<discord->
Multyino. — if it still a prototyp maybe put some extra telemetery on there
<discord->
Butcher. — Also relatively cheap because it;s only about a 50T LV.
<discord->
Butcher. — I'm using TF, there is no extra telemetry.
<discord->
Multyino. — well, ok.
<discord->
ef0rt. — Is it a coincidence that the L1 point is pretty much where you start to fall behind the planet?
<discord->
egg. — @DanieI I must, again, repeat that no matter what you do, spacecraft with ignition delays, thrust curves, or ullage thrust cannot be accurate based on timing alone; so you can do all the calculations you want on the back of your hand, that will not help with the fact that you need to do closed-loop guidance by hand, looking at map view and cutting off by eye
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — the mk1 eyeball strikes again!!!
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — egg
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — is there a way you can look at the orbits of 3 different crafts?
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — is there a way you can look at the orbits of 3 different crafts at the same time? (edited)
<discord->
egg. — not at the moment
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — ;-;
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — I know you can do 2 using target
<discord->
egg. — the idea has come up from time to time, and it sounds like a good idea
<discord->
egg. — but finding a good UX for that seems tricky
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — maybe if you can set multiple targets?
<discord->
Multyino. — just as a question the tutorial says "The engines used for a burn are either the active engines, the RCS or an instant impulse. In practice this means that you'll probably want to have an active engine when doing your planning. Furthermore, solid-state engines cannot be activated without running them at full power, so it's not really possible to use them in planning." so u can just activate it bu
<discord->
egg. — @Zeusbeer targeting is a feature where we piggyback on stock KSP, the game just does not work that way.
<discord->
egg. — we would have to build some larger concept of « constellation of vessels »
<discord->
egg. — nothing fundamentally hard but certainly needs some thought.
<discord->
egg. — @Multyino yes, this is how you are supposed to do it
<discord->
egg. — decouple everything, activate while throttle is at 0, create the plan
<discord->
egg. — in Gallai, decouple everything, activate while throttle is at 0, rebase the plan
<discord->
egg. — and select active engines
<discord->
Multyino. — wouldent activate the engine create plan decoupel and eyeball it work too ? because u mostly just need the direction of the burn to spin it up
<discord->
Multyino. — ( i guess thats what u have been meaning the entier time )
<discord->
egg. — no, because the mass will be wrong.
<discord->
Multyino. — so it wont be exact ?
<discord->
Multyino. — ( i mean i just want to hit a ball 300 Mm away )
<discord->
egg. — it will assume that you are dragging the entire previous stage along
<discord->
egg. — so the timing will likely be massively off
<discord->
egg. — In Gallai I suppose you could try to fudge it with the following:
<discord->
egg. — — create the flight plan;
<discord->
egg. — — activate the engine;
<discord->
egg. — — plan, inertially fixed;
<discord->
egg. — — spin up;
<discord->
egg. — — decouple;
<discord->
egg. — — rebase, thus picking up the new mass;
<discord->
egg. — — adjust the flight plan to compensate for the change in mass (but while keeping the direction constant, since you can no longer change it).
<discord->
egg. — But again, the broader answer is that you have a spacecraft which is very complicated, and so at some point the tools break down ; you can probably wing it in creative ways, but if you are trying to learn how the tools work while flying horrible edge cases you are going to have a miserable time
<discord->
Multyino. — well i hope this will work ( and ye this is basically just a problem of early tech )
<discord->
egg. — A lot of Principia players are also really into RP-1, but as RP-1 starts you in the fifties that is a really bad training ground for Principia
<discord->
egg. — (same for RSS having KSC as a default, that is not a very easy launch site especially if you care about the Moon)
<discord->
Multyino. — ( well my space center is in french guyanna if i would have known how hard it is i would have taken the normal cape one )
<discord->
egg. — no, French Guyana is easier
<discord->
Multyino. — is it ?
<discord->
egg. — KSC is the cape one, it is harder
<discord->
egg. — yes
<discord->
egg. — KSC is Kennedy Space Centre
<discord->
Multyino. — i need to adjust the inclination
<discord->
Multyino. — thats the main problem and with 1 way engines thats the hard part
<discord->
egg. — yes and? in KSC you simply cannot launch into the plane of the moon most of the time
<discord->
egg. — except twice a month, but not every day like in Kourou
<discord->
egg. — (except for a short while every 18 years)
<discord->
Multyino. — wasent it like every 12 hours u have 0,25 ° ?
<discord->
egg. — no, because the Moon doesn’t work in real life like it does in stock
<discord->
egg. — it precesses
<discord->
egg. — which has the effect that its inclination with respect to Earth’s equator varies between 5° and 18°
<discord->
egg. — this is a classic issue that new players encounter : most of the time, launching from KSC in Principia is just as hard as launching from, say, Байконур in stock
<discord->
egg. — but they expect it to be as easy as Kourou, because the inclination is maximal in stock
<discord->
Multyino. — beeing glad i choose kourou
<discord->
Damien. — @Multyino this catches literally every new principia player out. RSS teaches that you that the moon orbits almost exactly at Cape Canaveral's latitude. Principia has no time for such casual shenanigans
<discord->
Damien. — @Multyino this catches literally every new principia player out. RSS teaches you that the moon orbits almost exactly at Cape Canaveral's latitude. Principia has no time for such casual shenanigans (edited)
<discord->
egg. — hehe
<discord->
Damien. — @Multyino this catches literally every new principia player out. RSS teaches you that the moon orbits at an inclination almost exactly at Cape Canaveral's latitude. Principia has no time for such casual shenanigans (edited)
<discord->
Multyino. — i mean it catched me offguard too
<discord->
egg. — well, evidently not literally every new player, @Multyino cleverly avoided the issue by going to Kourou :-)
<discord->
egg. — @Damien oh your profile photo has a cat now
<discord->
Damien. — yeah as of a few months ago lol
<discord->
Damien. — it's my former KSP assistant
<discord->
egg. — mine doesn’t care much about KSP
<discord->
Multyino. — and i presume a leptop with RSS open
<discord->
Damien. — he used to like chasing the mouse pointer so KSP was a favourite because of all the clicking and the wiggly orbit lines
<discord->
Damien. — he passed about month ago
<discord->
egg. — you have another one, right?
<discord->
Multyino. — > he passed about month ago
<discord->
Multyino. — @Damien RIP he sure was a good cat
<discord->
Damien. — @egg yeah we still have one cat
<discord->
Damien. — @Multyino thanks. he was an annoying pain in the ass at times but a really loving cat
<discord->
DRVeyl. — I used to play KSP with the video projected onto the wall. My cat loved to jump and bat at the Kerbals walking around in the VAB.
<kmath>
YouTube - Making a 'Molniya constellation' in Kerbal Space Program (RSS+Principia)
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — it's unlisted kek
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — I have no balls
<discord->
Damien. — list it
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — :S
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — k
<discord->
Damien. — your next task is a sunsynchronous satellite around venus
<discord->
Damien. — egg shhh
<discord->
egg. — hahaha
<raptop>
Damien: Lagrange points count, right?
<discord->
Damien. — no that's cheating
<discord->
Zeusbeer. — no I bet you it's impossible
<discord->
Damien. — unfortunately so
<discord->
Damien. — ```A satellite around the almost spherical Venus, for example, will need an outside push to maintain a Sun-synchronous orbit. ```