raptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Galileo. We currently target 1.5.1, 1.6.1, 1.7.x, 1.8.1, and 1.9.1. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
<discord-_> e​gg. — @scimas I think a better analogy might be that Principia mechanics are to stock orbital mechanics what FAR aircraft design is to stock aircraft design: the crude approximations still hold to the extent that they do in real life, but a lot of the lessons and habits fall on their face, and things that seemed trivial are revealed to be complex. But while you can play with FAR without caring much about a
<discord-_> S​lowmover35. — Should I start in RO with principia? Would it be too complicated or should I try and get the mechanics down early?
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — I would recommend against it.
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — Have you flown with Principia in stock before?
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<discord-_> F​arrier. — I tried it in stock first, and after some practice I found it to be quite manageable and exciting. It didn't prepare me for unforgiving (relative to stock) dVs in RO so you can't cut corners like matching inclination while in orbit and so on. Formidability of RO combined with complexity of realistic physics provide quite a strong resonance spike in difficulty, so to say. xD
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<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — > or in this case who just expect everyone else to have done the work for them because "zzzzz"
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — @XKdiver that zzzzz felt like a personal attack :)
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — I dont expect there to be things already made for me, but im just done with launching rockets in RSS, it takes up like 50% of the time of some missions
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<discord-_> d​awidePl. — Moon got crazy
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — ...sooo did you read the documentation?
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — You're in the surface reference frame.
<discord-_> d​awidePl. — I know.. Let me joke a bit 😅
<discord-_> d​awidePl. — I'm 1 hour away from exam results and I am very stressed about how I did...
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — Ah, sorry. Didn't pick it up.
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<discord-_> A​nomaly. — What was the exam on?
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<discord-_> d​awidePl. — Well 8th grade exam.
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<discord-_> d​awidePl. — Kinda my life depends on it 😅
<discord-_> d​awidePl. — I'll share my results on #offtopic
<discord-_> d​awidePl. — I'll share my results on #offtopic when I get them. (edited)
<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — Good luck sir!
<discord-_> d​awidePl. — Thanks 😄
<discord-_> F​arrier. — > I dont expect there to be things already made for me, but im just done with launching rockets in RSS, it takes up like 50% of the time of some missions
<discord-_> F​arrier. — @Zeusbeer What about MJ?
<discord-_> d​awidePl. — Hm I can't select target since I downloaded Principia :/
<discord-_> R​ingo. — You can
<discord-_> R​ingo. — You just have to unlock level 2 Mission Control and Tracking Station
<discord-_> R​ingo. — Like in stock.
<discord-_> R​ingo. — You just have to unlock level 2 Mission Control and level 2 Tracking Station (edited)
<discord-_> d​awidePl. — I'm on sandbox
<discord-_> R​ingo. — You can target a celestial body or anything before launching, on the launch pad I think.
<discord-_> d​awidePl. — I see
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — Do you mean that you can no longer click on vessels to target?
<discord-_> F​arrier. — There's a button to select celestials, isn't it?
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — > To select a target vessel in map view, check Select target vessel... in the main Principia window, and click on the target.
<discord-_> d​awidePl. — Damn, thanks. Too late as I decided to get on 10Mm orbit, but still thanks 😅
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — Thank egg's docs and Ctrl-F.
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<discord-_> B​utcher. — Is this a ridiculous idea?
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Launch at any time to an orbit that can intercept the moon.
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Essentially, three points, earth centre, moon position in 4 days (estimate), launch pad position. They form a plane, so launch such that your orbital plane will be that plane.
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Should give an easy tli to intercept them moon in 4 days.
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Is this a ridiculous idea?
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Launch at any time to an orbit that can intercept the moon.
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Essentially, three points, earth centre, moon position in 4 days (estimate), launch pad position. They form a plane, so launch such that your orbital plane will be that plane.
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Should give an easy tli to intercept the moon in 4 days. (edited)
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — Not following. The line from the moon to the launchsite won't intersect Earth centre.
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — Oh, hang on, sorry I misinterpreted.
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — The launchsite isn't at the same inclination as the Moon.
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — The launchsite isn't at the same longitude as inclination as the Moon. (edited)
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — The launchsite isn't at the same longitude as inclination of the Moon. (edited)
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — So you can't form a plane with those three.
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — So you can't form a plane with those three points. (edited)
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Why not?
<discord-_> B​utcher. — You can form a plane with any three points.
<discord-_> B​utcher. — The only tricky part is if they're colinear, but that doesn't happen for launch sites above the plane of the moon's orbit.
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — Give me a sec to visualise this.
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Essentially, vector from earth to moon, vector from earth to launch site. Cross product.
<discord-_> B​utcher. — That's the plane normal.
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — Lmao sorry but describing it in linear algebra terms is not gonna help me understand it.
<discord-_> B​utcher. — The theory is that any three points can form a plane, so if I just form a plane with those three points and put my orbit in it, then my orbit plane will intersect the moon's orbit in 4 days.
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Initial calcs seem valid.
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — Alright, so what you're saying is, there's a way to not pay attention to the RAAN and still get a parking orbit capable of intercepting the moon with only velocity change tangent to the ellipse.
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — Alright, so what you're saying is, there's a way to not pay attention to the RAAN and still get a parking orbit capable of intercepting the moon with only velocity change tangent to the orbit. (edited)
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Correct.
<discord-_> B​utcher. — You can only park for a relatively short period of time as you need to launch to TLI to intercept within the 4 day window. But you can obviously use a different prediction time for the moon (with the caveat that further into the future will be less accurate)
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — Ok so it is definitely correct that there exists a plane which the Earth, Moon and launchsite lie on.
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — And by definition a parking orbit exists for this plane.
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — I think the issue comes from being able to reach the Moon's orbit using tangent delta-V
<discord-_> B​utcher. — And since the launch site and centre of the earth are on the plane there exists a launch profile that brings you to this parking orbit.
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — Yeah, I can't figure this one out.
<discord-_> B​utcher. — I am testing it now, the inclination calc code was pretty trivial.
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — Well I'll leave the pretty trivial stuff to you then. 👀 😅
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — Well I'll leave the "pretty trivial" stuff to you then. 👀 😅 (edited)
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Seems to work from my first test:
<discord-_> B​utcher. — I rather like this, immediate launch, pretty much guaranteed reasonable TLI burn.
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — What inclination did you launch to?
<discord-_> B​utcher. — 62.45°
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Also availabe, free return:
<discord-_> A​nomaly. — I'm still not seeing it in my head.
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<discord-_> Z​eusbeer. — free returns 🙂
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<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] trollpolado starred Principia - https://git.io/JJavH
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<discord-_> d​awidePl. — I am supposed to manuevers with that thing?
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<discord-_> B​utcher. — Yes
<discord-_> d​awidePl. — I see
<discord-_> d​awidePl. — Gonna be hard :P
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<discord-_> S​ir Mortimer. — so. ahem.
<discord-_> S​ir Mortimer. — hi.
<discord-_> S​ir Mortimer. — i forgot how this discord thing works
<discord-_> S​ir Mortimer. — I had 2 notifications here and now cant find them
<discord-_> D​amien. — Do a search for mentions of yourself
<discord-_> S​ir Mortimer. — thanks 🙂
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<discord-_> S​ir Mortimer. — this is cool. https://twitter.com/esaoperations/status/1288045727206318081
<kmath> <✔esaoperations> The Cryosat spacecraft is being lifted in orbit by about 900 metres, to bring it in sync with NASA’s ICESat-2 every… https://t.co/UcYXB6Ws5g
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<discord-_> e​gg. — Hi @Sir Mortimer, how are you
<discord-_> S​ir Mortimer. — hot. very.
<discord-_> e​gg. — Same
<discord-_> S​ir Mortimer. — and finally looking at a couple of days off
<discord-_> S​ir Mortimer. — followed by a couple of weeks off 😛
<discord-_> e​gg. — Spent most of the day under a linden tree whose shade is usually way too cold
<discord-_> d​awidePl. — > I had 2 notifications here and now cant find them
<discord-_> d​awidePl. — Press `Ctrl + I` and switch to that thing on left and you will see all your pings
<discord-_> S​ir Mortimer. — nice. I hauled half a ton of grit from the hardware store. in 35 degrees. 😛
<discord-_> S​ir Mortimer. — been shopping for groceries after that. with a face mask on. god i hate them.
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<discord-_> B​utcher. — Better than covid
<discord-_> S​ir Mortimer. — yes. it's been good around here for a while, but it's coming back now.
<discord-_> S​ir Mortimer. — I'm looking into getting a good mask that is comfortable to wear, secure, and doesn't fog up my glasses. I bet we'll be wearing them for a while now.
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Fogging thing, make sure it has a nose thing.
<raptop> bendable metal nosebits are good, and I think common in disposable surgical masks?
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<discord-_> B​utcher. — Yes, also in some reusable masks, I got some off etsy with them.
<discord-_> B​utcher. — Other suggestion is surgical tape along the top edge.
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<_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] MarsMan1000 opened issue #2659: Weird Issue with Craft Collision Detection - https://git.io/JJa29
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<discord-_> e​gg. — raptop: ... doesn’t cloth count as a metal from your point of view
<discord-_> e​gg. — (see also the latest xkcd)
<raptop> egg; I think at this point it's more of simple models for undergrads, and we actually acknowledge the first 26-28 elements most of the time. (And people who deal with SNe get another ~70)