raptop changed the topic of #principia to: READ THE FAQ: http://goo.gl/gMZF9H; The current version is Galileo. We currently target 1.5.1, 1.6.1, 1.7.x, 1.8.1, and 1.9.1. <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly… | <egg> also 4e16 m * 2^-52 is uncomfortably large
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<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — Idk if I'm the only one noticing this but
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — After going onto Galileo, when reloading a scene on the surface my lander is bouncing into the air
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — I did not have this issue with previous versions
<discord-> A​nomaly. — Sounds like a stock KSP bug
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — hmm, ik theres a mod that fixes it
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — looks like ill have to try it
<discord-> l​pg. — There's a number of issues in galileo, but 'things on the surface randonly bouncing up on load' has been with ksp forever
<discord-> l​pg. — There's a number of issues in galileo, but 'things on the surface randomly bouncing up on load' has been with ksp forever (edited)
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — ik its a stock bug, i only encountered again after i went to galileo
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — ik its a stock bug, i only encountered it again after i went to galileo (edited)
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<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] lpgagnon commented on issue #2640: Crash during flight planning - https://git.io/JJZsp
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] lpgagnon edited a comment on issue #2640: Crash during flight planning - https://git.io/JJZsp
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<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] lpgagnon commented on issue #2640: Crash during flight planning - https://git.io/JJZZC
<discord-> F​alcon. — ...okay i think i broke something
<discord-> F​alcon. — im getting stock conics with Principia
<discord-> F​alcon. — and LLO with only 450 m/s?
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<discord-> B​utcher. — @egg
<discord-> B​utcher. — Build is working.
<discord-> B​utcher. — RCS timings looking 👌
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Interesting name scheme
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<discord-> B​utcher. — hmm?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — might not be principias fault
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — but the game has a stroke when I EVA out of an airplane
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — EVA in general is goofy with the parashute
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — it just goes up and down it's really strange
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — EVA in general is goofy with the parachute (edited)
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — doing geostationary on kerbin
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — how do I get the circle smaller?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — radial did the trick
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — couldn't get is smaller than this xd
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — couldn't get ist smaller than this xd (edited)
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — couldn't get it smaller than this xd (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — The EVA thing is a known bug
<discord-> e​gg. — Or two
<discord-> e​gg. — @Butcher nice
<discord-> B​utcher. — Can I PR it as is, or do you want more testing / documentation?
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<discord-> e​gg. — PR sounds good
<discord-> e​gg. — not much testing you can do beyond manual
<discord-> e​gg. — and most of this is undocumented to start with so don’t bother, just write a few words for context in the PR description
<discord-> B​utcher. — I agrees with KER and my own calculations.
<discord-> B​utcher. — I can;t guarantee it will work for all arrangements of thrusters, if you have them at some weird angle it might miscalc.
<discord-> B​utcher. — I'm not sure what KSP does if you have odd stuff like that.
<discord-> e​gg. — I mean, guaranteeing anything about KSP is a strange concept
<discord-> B​utcher. — e.g. if you have a multi-port thruster with one port at say 25° to the craft axis and the others orthogonally arranged, what does it do? Who knows.
<discord-> B​utcher. — Do you get max thrust on the 25° port and enough on the others to offset the off-axis component?
<discord-> e​gg. — I suspect it depends on the existence of reaction wheels
<discord-> B​utcher. — TRue.
<discord-> B​utcher. — True. (edited)
<discord-> B​utcher. — I normally have ports arranged to point directly backwards so don;t get into these weird effects.
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — what is the point of "logging settings" ?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — what do they do
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<discord-> B​utcher. — Log things.
<discord-> B​utcher. — ?Usually for when you have an odd bug and egg need's more info.
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<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — so I turn on all the options for the log so egg get's as much information as possible when I have an issue?
<discord-> D​amien. — @Zeusbeer the circle thing in/out is a function of your Ap/Pe distance from (kerbin?). You probably the right orbital period but the Ap/Pe are different. If you split the difference so both are the same (while maintaining orbital period) you'll fix it
<discord-> D​amien. — @Zeusbeer the circle thing in/out is a function of your Ap/Pe distance from (kerbin?). You probably have the right orbital period but the Ap/Pe are different. If you split the difference so both are the same (while maintaining orbital period) you'll fix it (edited)
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — so you can make it a dot?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I couldn't get it closer than the last screenshot, if you zoom out on it it's pretty close to a dot
<discord-> D​amien. — kerbin has no egginess so a pretty small circle yeah
<discord-> D​amien. — use the orbit analyser stats, not KER
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — You mean J3
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Spherical Harmonic lessons by egg
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — xd
<discord-> D​amien. — and get the Ap/Pe matching and the inclination perfect
<discord-> D​amien. — @Zeusbeer yeah kerbin is perfectly spherical unless you add a config
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — how would the orbit look for earth then?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — way more unstable?
<discord-> D​amien. — for a geosat, no
<discord-> D​amien. — because you're on the equator anyway
<discord-> D​amien. — you may have some oscillation from minmus but I can't see it being much
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — didn't know when minmus was a thing for earth 🙃
<discord-> D​amien. — you're around kerbin 😛
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — yes
<discord-> D​amien. — ah I can't read
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — no it's okay
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — my Dutch directness strikes again
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — sorry
<discord-> D​amien. — earth has the equatorial bulge and *second degree sectoral harmonics* so you have more to think about
<discord-> D​amien. — the bulge doesn't affect geosats much, the moon and the other thing (top down earth egginess) does
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — okay
<discord-> D​amien. — see my pcs from further up
<discord-> D​amien. — see my pics from further up (edited)
<discord-> D​amien. — if you want to play with principia I really do suggest setting up an RSS/SMURFF install
<discord-> D​amien. — it's way more interestingg
<discord-> D​amien. — it's way more interesting (edited)
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — what more can you do?
<discord-> D​amien. — you're clearly decent enough at principia to not have to play on stock
<discord-> D​amien. — do what you know, but in a more challenging environment, and do things with precession etc that you can't do on a spherical world
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — but can you make a square orbit :magic:
<discord-> D​amien. — the mun can be orbited for eternity, the moon will eat your satellites if you don't learn how to beat it
<discord-> D​amien. — yes you can make a square orbit
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — 🙃
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — first I need to see if I can make a tutorial series for dummies
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — on how to do all the basics
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — if I have enough motivation / confidence
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] RCrockford opened pull request #2651: Change ComputeRCSCharacteristics to use the sum of positive thrusts, … - https://git.io/JJZ2h
<discord-> D​amien. — I dod one of those once. Nothing special, just me recording some milestones
<discord-> D​amien. — I did one of those once. Nothing special, just me recording some milestones (edited)
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — ye but actual explaining
<discord-> D​amien. — on stock with principia
<discord-> B​utcher. — > PR sounds good
<discord-> B​utcher. — @egg Done.
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — so more people can play with the mod
<discord-> D​amien. — yeah that's definitely useful
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — and feel less discouraged
<discord-> D​amien. — the good thing about RSS/SMURFF too is that unstable lagrange point orbits are way longer between stationkeeps
<discord-> D​amien. — a month rather than a week for mun l1/2
<discord-> D​amien. — I'm just flicking through my smurff install's screenshots
<discord-> D​amien. — geosat drift
<discord-> D​amien. — same geosat when I shifted its longitude to a stable point
<discord-> D​amien. — Outer transfer to unstable moon ballistic capture
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — dope
<discord-> D​amien. — Earth-Sun L1/2 sats
<discord-> D​amien. — Square!
<discord-> D​amien. — Crepuscular sunsync orbit
<discord-> D​amien. — and that's it I'll stop spamming lol
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — what is the point of a crepular sat?
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<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — also, 4k monitor with rssve
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — nice
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I cry in 1440p now
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<discord-> D​amien. — I'm on 1440p
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<discord-> D​amien. — Crepuscular is always in sunlight so no power issues
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<discord-> D​amien. — and always has sight of the sun if it's for that kind of thing
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2651: Change ComputeRCSCharacteristics to use the sum of positive thrusts, … - https://git.io/JJZ2h
<discord-> B​utcher. — Just did a bit of playing with the flight planner, found Erath-Moon L2, it's really hard to capture into an orbit.
<discord-> B​utcher. — Just did a bit of playing with the flight planner, found Earth-Moon L2, it's really hard to capture into an orbit. (edited)
<discord-> B​utcher. — Any tips @Damien ?
<discord-> B​utcher. — I could get a few passes and then would tend to fly off towards either the earth or the moon.
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — yes
<discord-> M​ultyino. — kerpollo nice name
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — and is for stock system?
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — and is for stonk system? (edited)
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — ??!
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — Stock system is now stonk system
<discord-> M​ultyino. — is there a explaination pdf for when u use what reference frame ?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — yes it's stonk system ))
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — Now every kerbal is Meme Man
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — wait now that the rendezvous system actually works
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I'm gonna make a retrograde orbit collision
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — )))
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — Imagine colliding stuff in orbital speeds on Earth
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — think the game would just frame skip and show nothing that happens
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — xd
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — Or use BetterTimeWarp's slow-mo feature
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — And set to 0.1x time warp to make retrograde collisions on Earth
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — scary
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I need more accuracy!!!!
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — like 0.0 meters
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — my cube is too small
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — And why you need 0.00001 cm?
<discord-> e​gg. — @Zeusbeer so crepuscular orbits are indeed very useful because of being low yet always sunlit
<discord-> e​gg. — almost always, rather
<discord-> e​gg. — there is a bit of eclipse near the solstices
<discord-> e​gg. — low means two things: not far from the Earth, if you are observing that, and less Δv to get there
<discord-> e​gg. — so these orbits are used for Earth observation with power-hungry instruments (radars in particular), and solar observation
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — cool so you can use it to study eclipses?
<discord-> e​gg. — no, eclipse in satellite terminology means « being in the shade »
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy commented on pull request #2651: Change ComputeRCSCharacteristics to use the sum of positive thrusts, … - https://git.io/JJZrk
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4408/
<discord-> e​gg. — (in the shadow of the Earth, in this case)
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I see now yes
<discord-> e​gg. — so crepuscular solar observatories are common, because this costs less than going to L1 or a heliocentric orbit : TRACE, ACRIMSAT, IRIS, ひので, Picard, PROBA-2
<discord-> e​gg. — afk, meeting
<discord-> e​gg. — nevermind it is in 30 min
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — where do you work? ESA?
<discord-> e​gg. — nope, I’m a software engineer doing internationalization
<discord-> e​gg. — this is a hobby, not a job
<discord-> S​tandecco. — you know, your average hobby
<discord-> e​gg. — I recommend the Capderou book if you are interested in « what orbit does what why » though
<discord-> e​gg. — (cat not included)
<discord-> S​tandecco. — Catderou
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — sick
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — will read it once I go to university
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin commented on pull request #2651: Change ComputeRCSCharacteristics to use the sum of positive thrusts, … - https://git.io/JJZr3
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I see it's available in the university library of the university I'm planning to go to
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — also
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — 0 meter accuracy was fine
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — it's just the game skipping the collision, so I downloaded hyperwarp and set slomo on 0.01
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — Now do it in Earth
<discord-> M​ultyino. — > there's an english translation: https://www.springer.com/fr/book/9783319034157
<discord-> M​ultyino. — @egg welp
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — don't have a RSS install ;-;
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — and somehow a piece survived
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — epic
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — it's rotating hyperspeed though
<discord-> M​ultyino. — how did that survive
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — Then you can download
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — idk magic
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — orbit is screwed though
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — No periapsis
<discord-> M​ultyino. — i am more confused than surprised
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — i dont even know how N-body physics work on the stock system
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — periapsis is the lowest point
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — i tought you need to upscale everything to work
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — and considering it's crashing into kerbin, yes there should be no periapsis
<discord-> e​gg. — no, gravity is scale-free
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — yes, gravity works on the smallest things, even 2 molecules attract eachother
<discord-> e​gg. — the issue is the Jool system
<discord-> M​ultyino. — btw is that book still good ?
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — So i as wrong
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — no thank you
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — xd
<discord-> e​gg. — yes that is the English translation of the Capderou book, it is good
<discord-> M​ultyino. — btw is that book still good ?/ would u still rec it (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — @Zeusbeer see the night’s scrollback
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — We can speak about the Jool System issue
<discord-> P​rofiremu23. — how we can solve that
<discord-> M​ultyino. — jool system = everything gets kicked out
<discord-> e​gg. — why speak, I have written https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/wiki/On-the-dynamical-stability-of-Principia's-modified-Jool-system
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4408/
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4409/
<discord-> B​utcher. — @egg what does LGTM stand for?
<discord-> l​pg. — Looks Good To Me
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4409/
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4410/
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — yes
<discord-> e​gg. — @Butcher indeed, looks good to me
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<discord-> e​gg. — we used this label before GitHub introduce the concept of "approval"
<discord-> e​gg. — now I do both :D
<discord-> B​utcher. — 👌
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4410/
<discord-> e​gg. — we used this label before GitHub introduced the concept of "approval" (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — OK it built fine, going to merge
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin closed issue #2571: RCS burns in editor are incorrect for multi-port thrusters - https://git.io/JfRan
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin closed pull request #2651: Change ComputeRCSCharacteristics to use the sum of positive thrusts, … - https://git.io/JJZ2h
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±2] https://git.io/JJZ6T
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] RCrockford f474a37 - Change ComputeRCSCharacteristics to use the sum of positive thrusts, rather than the average.
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin cadff58 - Merge pull request #2651 from RCrockford/rcs-thrust-calc-change Change ComputeRCSCharacteristics to use the sum of positive thrusts, …
<discord-> e​gg. — won’t be in the upcoming release since we cut and built that already so you’ll have to wait a month (or build yourself from head, now that you have set things up for that it’s a viable option)
<discord-> B​utcher. — I'll probably do that.
<discord-> e​gg. — building from head means you can get all the shiny WIP goodies
<discord-> e​gg. — (and potentially build in states that corrupt your save horribly  :-p)
<discord-> S​tandecco. — @Butcher did you PR RCS deltav information?
<discord-> S​tandecco. — does it work for all fuels?
<discord-> B​utcher. — I PRed correct RCS thrust calcs. It;s fuel independent.
<discord-> B​utcher. — It will mean teh duration of burn should be correct for RCS manoeuvres.
<discord-> S​tandecco. — would be nice to add something to MJ too, at this point
<discord-> S​tandecco. — its RCS deltaV is a bit broken
<discord-> B​utcher. — I use KER mostly.
<discord-> B​utcher. — Also I can calc RCS dV with kOS now since I added some support there.
<discord-> e​gg. — mind you understanding how much fuel and how much Δv you have is out of scope when it comes to Principia
<discord-> e​gg. — we don’t look at available fuel
<discord-> B​utcher. — My kOS manoeuvre executor uses fuel amounts for Dv, rather than burn duration.
<discord-> B​utcher. — For engines at least, for RCS I just use duration.
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — for RO overhaul does the burning length take the ignition time in account aswell?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — for RO does the burning length take the ignition time in account aswell? (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — no
<discord-> D​amien. — @Butcher re: L2 stationkeeping. It's the Mk1 eyeball once again I'm afraid. Do extremely small burns (0.5% RCS level small) to make your next 2-3 orbits overlap. rinse and repeat every couple of orbits
<discord-> D​amien. — have a play around with burns at Ap/Pe/AN/DN because sometimes I find one or the other works better each time for reasons I don't really understand
<discord-> D​amien. — a thrust at Pe might overshoot whereas one at AN is more precise
<discord-> D​amien. — so yeah. mk1 eyeball and experimentation
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — interplanetary missions sound fun if you have a vital craft in an unstable lagrange point
<discord-> D​amien. — Sun-Earth L1/2 are good because of their long orbit duration. Earth-Moon L4/5 are good for l-point orbit manipulation practice because they're stable
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — 🙃
<discord-> B​utcher. — I had 2-3 orbits worth, I was just playing in the planner though, I don;t have any need for an L2 sat yet.
<discord-> B​utcher. — You can't get into a longer term orbit than that though? I thought it was possible.
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — well maybe with a 0.0001 thrust limiter
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — and a 0.01 N thruster
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — you can get it to stay there slightly longer
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<discord-> D​amien. — @Butcher yeah the issue is thrust. Burns that make the next two orbits overlap make the following three increasingly chaotic
<discord-> D​amien. — We just don't have the precision
<discord-> D​amien. — See also: ksp trajectory errors/twitchiness
<discord-> B​utcher. — Ah
<discord-> B​utcher. — So keeping a relay out at L2 might not be practical.
<discord-> D​amien. — Not for long term no, but for the duration of a few weeks long mission sure
<discord-> D​amien. — Moon L2 stationkeeping is about once a month
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — farside mission
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — but you can abuse l4 and l5 for that
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — or a triple sat relay network in orbit of moon, but moon likes eating things if I heard that correctly from Damien
<discord-> D​amien. — Yup
<discord-> D​amien. — Polar is fine so you could have a decent relay setup
<discord-> D​amien. — Otherwise it'd take some planning
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — also, I have a rss smurf install now
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — will geostationary again
<discord-> p​uma949. — why do I always miss planned orbit?
<discord-> l​pg. — my guess: because you're not taking ignition time into account
<discord-> p​uma949. — any good aproximation for wac-corporal ignition?
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — First off, if the stage is spin stabilized you want to check the inertially fixed button
<discord-> p​uma949. — what does the "inertially fixed button" do?
<discord-> S​tonesmile. — It tells the planner that you can't change the attitude during the burn
<discord-> p​uma949. — if this true for a single node flight plan?
<discord-> B​utcher. — Yes
<discord-> B​utcher. — It's a per node option.
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — excuse me what
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — did I do my geostationary wrong?
<discord-> e​gg. — nope, you just encountered the sectoral harmonics
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — feels bad man, real life kinda sucks
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — earth is so beautiful though
<discord-> e​gg. — See Fig. 7.10 of the Capderou book
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Earth is so beautiful though (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — > L’accélération nulle détermine les points d'équilibre:
<discord-> e​gg. — > λ = 75.059° = 75° 04′ E et λ = 255.089° = 104° 59′ W pour les points stables
<discord-> e​gg. — what is your current longitude?
<discord-> e​gg. — (you can see that in mechjeb surface info for instance)
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Don't have mechjeb installed
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — (((
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I prefer mk1 eyeball
<discord-> e​gg. — that is going to make finding out where you are harder
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — (my pc is dying predicting so far in the future lol)
<discord-> e​gg. — what is below you
<discord-> e​gg. — what is below y? (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — what is below you? (edited)
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — yellow dot
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — wait sorry
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — sideways xd
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — sri lanka
<discord-> e​gg. — it is unlikely that this dot is directly below you
<discord-> e​gg. — what with sri lanka being quite far north of the equator
<discord-> e​gg. — but OK, let’s say this is roughly where you are
<discord-> e​gg. — 80ish degrees East
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I blaim freecam lol
<discord-> D​amien. — @Zeusbeer protip - the scansat map shows your groundtrack overlaid on the surface
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — really close egg!
<discord-> e​gg. — so you should oscillate five degrees either side of 75° East probably
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — 3 degree because mouse position
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2652: Golden section search - https://git.io/JJZ9u
<discord-> e​gg. — so you should librate south of India
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4411/
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — interesting
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — it worked
<discord-> e​gg. — @sarbian https://twitter.com/DrChrisCombs/status/1283754965089939459 in case you feel like adding fancy things to SmokeScreens :-p
<kmath> <DrChrisCombs> Great question from @Geopilot on this @pilliarscreatio post: why does the exhaust plume impinge on the aft portion… https://t.co/hLAlkUHJrZ
<discord-> e​gg. — (cc @ferram4 for supersonic fluids)
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — it still drifts up and down
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — oh no thats just my ascending node being scuffed
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I still blaim moon
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — yep at 0 m/s it still drifts up and down.
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin reviewed pull request #2652 commit - https://git.io/JJZ9x
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin reviewed pull request #2652 commit - https://git.io/JJZ9h
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2652: Golden section search - https://git.io/JJZ9u
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] eggrobin reviewed pull request #2652 commit - https://git.io/JJZHJ
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — at 75.13 degrees so how do they counter that in real life? just correction burns?
<discord-> e​gg. — yeah up and down is the moon
<discord-> e​gg. — the occasional correction, yes
<discord-> e​gg. — @Zeusbeer fire up the orbit analyser and set it to a couple of months
<discord-> e​gg. — so you can see the inclination range
<discord-> e​gg. — the eyeball is good, but with perspective this looks far worse than it is
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<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — 461 days
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4411/
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<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — wow ksp RSSVE + principia is a good system stress tester
<discord-> e​gg. — OK so goes up to 1.22°
<discord-> e​gg. — that’s not all that much, I would guess this should remain within the pattern of your household satellite dish
<discord-> e​gg. — (but I ought to ask someone who can into antennæ, cc @DRVeyl)
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — incredible
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — now people in my fictional ksp world from shri-lanka can watch television
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — well not shri-lanka anymore
<discord-> e​gg. — yeah, in India too
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — yay
<discord-> D​amien. — @Zeusbeer congratulations. Now russia needs a TV feed
<discord-> D​amien. — good luck
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — oh no, not like dis
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — how do you even launch into an inclination like that?
<discord-> e​gg. — so, I think @Damien is hinting at молния
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Yes I know!
<discord-> D​amien. — you can launch directly into a higher inclination than your launch site, but not lower
<discord-> e​gg. — note that those communicate with ground stations, not household dishes
<discord-> e​gg. — because while they stay up for a while, they still move, so you need tracking
<discord-> e​gg. — (I mean, household tracking dishes would be cool, but they did not go that way)
<discord-> D​amien. — this mission is fun because not only do you need to nail the orbits, you need to nail the orbits and time the satellites in their orbits so they handover over russia
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — yes because you need a constant sat above Russia
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy reviewed pull request #2652 commit - https://git.io/JJZHR
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #2652: Golden section search - https://git.io/JJZ9u
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — is that how it would look on the surface fixed frame?
<discord-> D​amien. — yes
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — how on earth xd
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4412/
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — you have to get the orbit correct, have to get it on top of russia, have to get the sats in sync
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — oh you absolute madman
<discord-> D​amien. — and yes I spelt Molniya wrongg
<discord-> D​amien. — and yes I spelt Molniya wrong (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — (@Zeusbeer except that your image is from ЕКС, so instead of doing telecoms for Russia it stares at the US, but as far as orbital mechanics are concerned they work identically)
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — can I do this mission with 1 sat and shall russia be happy enough with that?
<discord-> e​gg. — @Damien eh, transliteration is a fool’s game anyway
<discord-> D​amien. — nope
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — 😦
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Putin would kill me in the fictional ksp world
<discord-> B​utcher. — > (I mean, household tracking dishes would be cool, but they did not go that way)
<discord-> B​utcher. — @egg Star link.
<discord-> e​gg. — @Butcher no I mean actual tracking dishes, not omnidirectional antennæ
<discord-> B​utcher. — Granted they're proposing phased arrays not steering.
<discord-> e​gg. — ah but those are onboard, right?
<discord-> B​utcher. — Ground is phased arrays, dunno what they have onboard.
<discord-> e​gg. — ah right, they have ground station
<discord-> D​amien. — @Zeusbeer it's not as hard a task as it seems. it's just several individual moderately hard tasks
<discord-> e​gg. — no see what I was getting at is you could just have given every household in Russia a proper tracking dish :-p
<discord-> e​gg. — skip the ground station network
<discord-> B​utcher. — They're talking about 600km orbits so anything on the ground without tracking isn't getting much.
<discord-> B​utcher. — I think they were planning phased arrays at the household, that was my reading.
<discord-> B​utcher. — Rather than a ground station network and then consumers tap that.
<discord-> e​gg. — @Zeusbeer that would probably be Брежнев in the молния days
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — what do you mean?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Do you also know all the languages
<discord-> e​gg. — not Путин
<discord-> B​utcher. — I have my first Molniya sat building, seemed reasonable to get it into the correct orbit.
<discord-> e​gg. — @Zeusbeer Brezhnev, not Putin
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — oh yes
<discord-> e​gg. — (1964 for the first launch iirc)
<discord-> D​amien. — it's 3 elliptical orbits of a specific type, spaced equidistantly, fixed as 1/3 of the planet's orbital period, and the satellites timed in that orbit to pass at the right time and place
<discord-> e​gg. — @Butcher the Raidernick model?
<discord-> e​gg. — it is quite nice
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #2652: Golden section search - https://git.io/JJZ9u
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy reviewed pull request #2652 commit - https://git.io/JJZHy
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 
<discord-> D​amien. — @Zeusbeer get one orbit right, then use that as a base for the rest. the rest is just adjusting the duration of each orbit to phase into position
<discord-> D​amien. — lots of tweaking
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — true
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — or you can launch 3 sats at once
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — then launch them all into the same orbit
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — and then tweak the period for them to be in sync
<discord-> D​amien. — you need to launch them 24/3 apart
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4412/
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4413/
<discord-> e​gg. — they are not coplanar, @Zeusbeer
<discord-> D​amien. — each orbit's AN is 1/3 of the planet away from the last
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — ;-;
<discord-> D​amien. — that last pic, the 3 patched conic orbits are what makes the weird shaped on
<discord-> D​amien. — that last pic, the 3 patched conic orbits are what makes the weird shaped one (edited)
<discord-> D​amien. — patched conic view is the 3 orbits in ECI, the weird shaped one is all 3 overlaid on one another in ECEF
<discord-> D​amien. — I have a video of me doing a similar thing in stock to test something for kerbalism
<discord-> D​amien. — that's without principia, but imagine the satellite following a similar groundtrack
<discord-> D​amien. — there's always a satellite over the receiver dish
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — yeah I understand the reasoning behind molniya
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — just the launch dates are difficult for my brain to digest
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I'll give a sleep about it
<discord-> D​amien. — that's the easy part
<discord-> D​amien. — 3 launches 8hrs apart
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — wait I just thought about this right
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Israel launches retrograde right?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — did they also launc retrograde for their moon lander mission
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — did they also launch retrograde for their moon lander mission (edited)
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — did they also launch retrograde for their moon lander mission? (edited)
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — how much extra delta V would that require?
<discord-> B​utcher. — > @Butcher the Raidernick model?
<discord-> B​utcher. — @egg no I build them all from proc parts.
<discord-> B​utcher. — > how much extra delta V would that require?
<discord-> B​utcher. — @Zeusbeer 400 at most.
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — not that much of a scam
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — that's almost as much as my average launch is inefficient
<discord-> e​gg. — @Butcher oh, screenshots?
<discord-> B​utcher. — I'm not at home, so can't capture atm.
<discord-> B​utcher. — Also a more accurate description would be object in a Molniya orbit. 😆
<discord-> e​gg. — ah
<discord-> l​pg. — getting to orbit retrograde costs extra dv; going to the moon after that won't cost anything else extra
<discord-> l​pg. — for capturing at the moon, what's the relative velocities to consider?
<discord-> D​amien. — Israel: Watch me 360 noscope the moon
<discord-> l​pg. — probe's velocity relative to Earth, at Ap?
<discord-> l​pg. — (going towards the moon in one case, away from moon in the other)
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] Success. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4413/
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2652: Golden section search - https://git.io/JJZ9u
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy pushed 8 commits to master [+0/-0/±15] https://git.io/JJZ7t
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy ecbbab4 - Implementation skeleton.
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy 18b6365 - Complete algorithm.
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] pleroy 27af8ee - Test passing.
<_whitenotifier-d13c> [Principia] ... and 5 more commits.
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<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — > I have a video of me doing a similar thing in stock to test something for kerbalism
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Why the OwO and UwU though
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — ;-;
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — weeb xd
<discord-> D​amien. — @Zeusbeer because if you don't shitpost in every available medium what are you even doing with your life?
<discord-> D​amien. — rawr
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — True yes
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<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — Question about the rebase feature
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — So, would a good time to use it be a scenario where you had to use attitude control to manuever to your node and want to see how that affected the final trajectory?
<discord-> e​gg. — or simply after executing a manœuvre, to be able to adjust your plan according to what you actually did
<discord-> B​utcher. — It's very useful if you miss time a buen slightly.
<discord-> B​utcher. — It's very useful if you miss time a burn slightly. (edited)
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — Doesnt it delete the manuevers after the first one?
<discord-> e​gg. — no, that is the point
<discord-> e​gg. — it deletes past manœuvres
<discord-> e​gg. — but not future ones
<discord-> e​gg. — otherwise it would just be deleting the flight plan and making a new one, which you can already do
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — ohh
<discord-> e​gg. — otherwise it would just be deleting the flight plan and making a new empty one, which you can already do (edited)
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — i misread it 🙂
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — thats super useful then
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — wait rebase feature?
<discord-> e​gg. — in Gallai
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Am I missing something I can potentially use to great extend because of my human errors
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Am I missing something I can potentially use to great extend because of my human errors? (edited)
<discord-> e​gg. — no, Gallai is not out yet
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — how many days?
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — 🙃
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — I need it
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — im on the release that was posted before 🙂
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — im on the build that was posted before 🙂 (edited)
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<discord-> s​arbian. — @egg nah, too much work 😄
<discord-> B​utcher. — > Lundi 20 Julliet 🤔
<discord-> B​utcher. — @Zeusbeer
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<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Yes yes yes
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Je comprendre
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<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — The new update will help with the collision bug aswell right? It has been haunting me
<discord-> e​gg. — the kerbal thing ? yes
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — I just experienced that atm 🙂
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Yes it's fun but terrifying and sometimes gamebreaking
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Also, may not be principia but astroid grabbing is kinda funky aswell
<discord-> Z​eusbeer. — Sometimes it just has a stroke and the vessel/astroid bounce away with an unreasonable extra amount of energy
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — I just did an eva, as soon as touch my krakened vessal the kerbal went flying into space, game spammed null refs and crashed
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<discord-> D​RVeyl. — Household dishes are pretty forgiving, because people have to point them with household tools and whatever aid the manufacturer can Integrate with it. So 1.2 degrees of oscillation shouldn't be a big deal for most consumers.
<discord-> D​RVeyl. — Electronically steered arrays on the ground are neat. Just not particularly common yet. But I guess a design like Starlink would spur a need for them.
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<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — So, i'm trying to get to Saturn but my flight plan says I wont even get close, is it due to my low TWR?
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — I thought 7.7 km/s would be enough for a transfer D:
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — nvm , seems that im heavily out of plane with the eliptic
<discord-> B​utcher. — Can you plane change with a gravity assist? Maybe the moon?
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — No idea, Im gonna try launching according to SCSA
<discord-> R​urouniDonut. — least i think thats the frame to launch into a bodies plane sorta
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