06:34 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2677: Add support for unbounded arrays - https://git.io/JJdt8

08:06 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy closed pull request #2677: Add support for unbounded arrays - https://git.io/JJdt8

08:06 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy pushed 10 commits to master [+6/-0/±23] https://git.io/JJFBy

08:06 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy 9c8bcae - Unbounded arrays.

08:06 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy a5dbcf5 - Something that compiles. # Conflicts: # numerics/frequency_analysis_body.hpp

08:06 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy a248f76 - UnboundedVector and uninitialization.

08:06 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] ... and 7 more commits.

08:06 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. queued - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=956

08:06 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. queued - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=957

08:06 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. in progress - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=956

08:06 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. in progress - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=957

09:13 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Failure. #956 failed - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=956

09:16 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Failure. #957 failed - https://dev.azure.com/mockingbirdnest/445d7b9d-0318-42e3-857f-b69d40b1ed1b/_build/results?buildId=957

18:46 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] DM1122 starred Principia - https://git.io/JJbvb

21:38 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy opened pull request #2678: Multifrequency Kudryavtsev projection - https://git.io/JJbId

21:44 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 

21:44 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4454/

21:50 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy edited pull request #2678: Multifrequency Кудрявцев projection - https://git.io/JJbId

21:50 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy edited pull request #2678: Multifrequency Кудрявцев projection - https://git.io/JJbId

21:51 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #2678: Multifrequency Кудрявцев projection - https://git.io/JJbId

21:53 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Build queued… - 

22:03 <discord-> J​oco223. — This isn't related to RSS/RO/RP1 but is it possible to add axial tilt to Kerbin with Principia?

22:07 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4454/

22:07 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Pending. Building… - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4455/

22:24 <discord-> S​tonesmile. — I *think* you can, but I have no idea how you actually do that

22:28 <_whitenotifier-9244> [Principia] Failure. Build finished. - http://casanova.westeurope.cloudapp.azure.com:8080/job/Principia/4455/

22:32 <discord-> D​erple Purp. — well axial tilt currently doesn't exist in RSS and it really screws with things

22:33 <discord-> J​oco223. — Yeah I know, KSP doesn't support axial tilt at all currently

22:45 <discord-> S​tonesmile. — Axial tilt does indeed not exist in RSS, *but principia*

23:07 <discord-> s​cimas. — Doesn't Principia do some trickery to simulate axial tilt even if the stock game thinks there is no axial tilt? Otherwise it could never accurately represent the real solar system dynamics.

23:08 <discord-> K​irk. — Principia supports axial tilt just fine

23:09 <discord-> e​gg. — it is even in the forum thread title https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/162200--

23:09 <discord-> S​tonesmile. — IIRC the epoc principia provides for RSS has the entire solar system tilted (like it usually is), but it also correct all the other tilts

23:10 <discord-> e​gg. — that sentence does not make much sense. Anyway, « the solar system tilted » is meaningless ; it is a statement about how the camera is oriented. That in turn depends on the chosen frame.

23:11 <discord-> e​gg. — (since Fréchet, see https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/wiki/Change-Log#fr%C3%A9chet)

23:12 <discord-> S​tonesmile. — would my last message be more correct prior to Fréchet?

23:13 <discord-> e​gg. — not really, because it depended on the current main body.

23:14 <discord-> e​gg. — In any case, this is simply a question of visualization, not one of physics. Tilt truly exists with Principia, since Cardano.

23:14 <discord-> e​gg. — (it is imposed upon the unsuspecting game in horrible ways, but that is an internal detail.)

23:14 <discord-> S​tonesmile. — Since it is a simulation there has to be an 'up'. What is that defined as (just curious)

23:14 <discord-> s​cimas. — I think the disbelief comes from the oft heard statement on the forums that all body axes have to be parallel to each other at all times in the stock game, and people not knowing how principia gets around that.

23:15 <discord-> e​gg. — > Since it is a simulation there has to be an 'up'

23:15 <discord-> e​gg. — wat.

23:15 <raptop> You know, -\nabla U

23:15 <discord-> S​tonesmile. — isn't there a base coorninate system?

23:16 <discord-> e​gg. — The underlying calculations are made in some coordinate system, but that system is never directly accessible to the player. The transforms to the reference frames accessible to the players are based on the orientations of the bodies and their axes.

23:17 <discord-> S​tonesmile. — Yes, everything I can see depends on the reference frame, but you, the dev, must have something else to base everything on right?

23:18 <discord-> e​gg. — I already answered your question, please read the answer again.

23:18 <discord-> e​gg. — The underlying system for our RSS config is the ICRS. This is not something you can determine without looking at the numbers in the config.

23:22 <discord-> s​cimas. — What would it take to create a simple two body system that has the bodies orbiting close enough to clearly see the bodies rotating around non-parallel axes in a single viewport, and making short video of it that I could link people to whenever this question is raised?

23:24 <discord-> e​gg. — Kopernicus configuration (left as an exercise to the reader) + for at least one of the bodies, a *nominal* `principia_gravity_model` providing `axis_declination`. https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/wiki/Principia-configuration-files#the-top-level-configurations

23:24 <discord-> S​tonesmile. — Maby just change the rotation axis of the moon to be 90 deg off?

23:26 <discord-> s​cimas. — I wonder how much of a deep dive I would need to take into Kopernicus for that.

23:27 <discord-> s​cimas. — Simply tilting the Moon might be simple enough, but then you have to make sure the textures map onto it correctly.

23:27 <discord-> e​gg. — you can probably fairly easily lower the Mun

23:27 <discord-> e​gg. — and then tilt Kerbin, and you should have your scenario set up

23:28 <discord-> s​cimas. — The textures automagically do the correct thing?

23:29 <discord-> K​irk. — Why wouldn't they

23:29 <discord-> K​irk. — The you aren't changing the mun

23:30 <discord-> s​cimas. — No idea, I have no clue how the game decides which graphics go where, hence the question.

23:31 <discord-> K​irk. — kerbin is a model, and the textures are mapped onto it

23:31 <discord-> K​irk. — If you tilt it, the textures aren't effected

23:31 <discord-> e​gg. — the main body exists more than the other bodies (it can have terrain etc.)

23:31 <discord-> K​irk. — That'd be like the textures on your parts staying still when you rotate them

23:31 <discord-> e​gg. — so we tilt the universe so that the main body is aligned with the Unity world axes

23:32 <discord-> e​gg. — and then we tilt the other bodies, since they don’t exist very much this is easy

23:32 <discord-> e​gg. — and then we tilt the camera independently from all that so that nobody notices that the universe is being tilted around

23:33 <discord-> e​gg. — and since we now control the orientation of the vessels, they tilt with the rest of the universe ; they used to keep alignment with the world axes, much to @Damien’s dismay

23:33 <discord-> s​cimas. — Okay, so for me only the principia_gravity_model is of concern, the rest should be handled by the game, Kopernicus and Principia accordingly. Thanks!

23:38 <discord-> e​gg. — (the persistent rotation, in a sense, naturally comes as an extension of the mechanisms needed to do all aspects of the tilt correctly, and the tilt is immediately necessary to do inhomogeneous gravity even remotely correctly, and inhomongeneous gravity is needed if you want to have a chance at getting the moons of Jupiter even close to correct, so it sort of all follows from the basic « multi-body

23:40 <discord-> s​cimas. — Yes, I was thinking about the accurate predictions of eclipses on Jupiter by principia someone posted on forum a while back.